The younger, or more timid generation.

[Cockney]

My lads are 28 & 30. Neither have shown any inclination to buy their own place. They're happy renting. Both high earners.

 

[nilagin]

I remember getting a job in a commercial vehicle repairs, and the bosses and mechanics would be very abusive towards me. I would get all the nasty jobs, fetching and carrying, making the tea, sweeping the floor. It's what was expected of the newbie. They would do silly things such as soak hand cleaning rags into old engine oil, and try and smear it all over my face, while the bosses looked on laughing. The newbie would be the butt of all jokes, and there was nothing you could do about it, other than leave, which I did.

Imagine trying to treat a newbie at a job like that today, they would never get away with it.

I started my apprenticeship in 79 at 16, as apprentices, we did far worse to each other. Trying to set fire to each others overalls, throwing hammers and wallets at each other in the trade school workshop, every lunchtime. Broom handle through overall sleeves and hung up on a hoist or crane. Overall sleeves clamped in two vices, paper towel soaked in thinners, then one end put in someones overalls pocket, then the other end lit with a match or lighter.
By the time we were 18 and released onto the workforce for our final 2 years, it was more a case of the adults didn't know what had hit them. Only time any youngsters left was because they were useless and couldn't do the work, rather than the way they were treated and they had left before starting their 3rd year with the adults.

 

[AZ6]

Hmm. Starting to see a pattern here; people abused at work by older folk (who are no doubt insecure and feel threatened by new people coming in), so in turn, when they have the 'power', they take it out on younger people. Cos that's gonna make for a nice society, isn't it? I worked in a couple of places where older blokes (it's always blokes, women just don't behave in such a nasty manner towards one another) tried such bullying; didn't work on me. I don't subscribe to such b******t. Perhaps that's why I don't feel the need to take out my frustrations on younger people, like some do...

We could discuss how workplace bullying has it's roots in feudalism and class power structures, but I feel that may be a little too much for some 'sensitive little souls' on here...

 

[jonbeeza]

I started my apprenticeship in 79 at 16, as apprentices, we did far worse to each other. Trying to set fire to each others overalls, throwing hammers and wallets at each other in the trade school workshop, every lunchtime. Broom handle through overall sleeves and hung up on a hoist or crane. Overall sleeves clamped in two vices, paper towel soaked in thinners, then one end put in someones overalls pocket, then the other end lit with a match or lighter.
By the time we were 18 and released onto the workforce for our final 2 years, it was more a case of the adults didn't know what had hit them. Only time any youngsters left was because they were useless and couldn't do the work, rather than the way they were treated and they had left before starting their 3rd year with the adults.

Sounds just like the place I worked at, remembering with a shudder. Being asked to crawl under a wagon and undo the sump bolt, and wonder why everyone is laughing, and discovering one idiot has got a blow torch on the soles of my boots, trying to melt them. Yes, having a windy gun hammer fired at you, yes I remember the times.

But anyway, all distant memories thankfully. I don't think youngsters of today, would survive that sort of abuse. They should not have to either.

With World War II having not long ended, maybe it was seen men should be toughened up possibly.

 

[Mr Badger]

Yes many do work hard. And yes many go to university, which they pay for, unlike older generations.

What's more likely to make it difficult to buy a house:

1. An anecdote about youngsters being lazy and expecting everytyhing handed to them, OR:
2. The fact that house prices are now 8 to 10 times the average salary even in modestly priced locations.

Now it used to be that a household with a single income could easily buy a house, now it's often a struggle for households with two full-time wages because of crippling rent, the requirement for massive deposits and stringent lending rules on mortgages combined with sky-high property values that mean it's impossible for them to get on the property ladder. The only clear route people have onto the property ladder without high paying jobs now, is inheritance or money from parents.

Do people choose to buy luxuries? Sure. But if you're working your arse off on minimum wage and earning £18K a year, but your rent and council tax is close to £1000 of your take-home pay, but you need to save £20,000 to buy a house: I can certainly see why people think "well that's never gonna happen, might as well have some luxuries".

You say your parents saved to buy a house, they stayed in and saved?

Sure. But the entire house was maybe 1 - 2 times their salary.

Now a deposit is likely to be an entire years salary.

So staying in and saving for a *deposit* is the equivalent of your parents staying in and saving until they could buy an entire house. How long do you think that would take now?

One of the reasons two people have to work to run a household these days is the lifestyle. As I said previously, they want all the modern appliances, fitted carpets and curtains, a luxury kitchen, a couple of continental holidays a year, a car each (often on finance), and if they have children then how much for the latest fancy trainers and clothes, despite the fact they'll have grown out of them in less than a year! Plus all the latest toys and games, which aren't cheap. That's why two people have to work.. to pay for all the stuff they keep buying!

A lot of people don't want to wait and save up for the above, they want it as soon as they leave home... so they strap themselves up with ridiculous amounts of debt and spend the rest of their working lives trying to pay for it, in some sort of vicious circle.

They're OK at the moment as interest rates are low and mortgages are as cheap as chips... but you'll see a lot of worry and misery if interest rates climb... and I wonder how many of them will admit it's their own fault as they tried to have a lifestyle beyond their actual means?

Just a couple of generations ago, most people didn't have a fraction of the possessions, clothes, shoes, etc that a lot of people have these days, they lived far simpler lives and very much within their means. If they'd done OK for themselves their house probably had fitted carpets, one TV, a radio or two, a fridge, a cooker and a washing machine. If they had a good job then they might have a dishwasher and a tumble dryer by their mid-30s (bearing in mind they'd probably got married in their early 20s), and one continental holiday a year, plus a small (often second hand) car for their wife, and go out for a meal a couple of times a month. The rest of the time it was home cooking (a takeaway meal, other then fish and chips, was a rare novelty treat) , and they'd go to bed at 10.30pm during the working week when the TV programmes ended!

Compare that simple lifestyle with that which a lot of working people have today and you'll see where the money goes. It's their choice, but don't come whinging to me about them being hard done by! Who's choice is that?

 

[nilagin]

Yes many do work hard. And yes many go to university, which they pay for, unlike older generations.

What's more likely to make it difficult to buy a house:

1. An anecdote about youngsters being lazy and expecting everytyhing handed to them, OR:
2. The fact that house prices are now 8 to 10 times the average salary even in modestly priced locations.

Now it used to be that a household with a single income could easily buy a house, now it's often a struggle for households with two full-time wages because of crippling rent, the requirement for massive deposits and stringent lending rules on mortgages combined with sky-high property values that mean it's impossible for them to get on the property ladder. The only clear route people have onto the property ladder without high paying jobs now, is inheritance or money from parents.

Do people choose to buy luxuries? Sure. But if you're working your arse off on minimum wage and earning £18K a year, but your rent and council tax is close to £1000 of your take-home pay, but you need to save £20,000 to buy a house: I can certainly see why people think "well that's never gonna happen, might as well have some luxuries".

You say your parents saved to buy a house, they stayed in and saved?

Sure. But the entire house was maybe 1 - 2 times their salary.

Now a deposit is likely to be an entire years salary.

So staying in and saving for a *deposit* is the equivalent of your parents staying in and saving until they could buy an entire house. How long do you think that would take now?

My parents bought their house, a new build, in 1957. It was alot more than 1 or 2 times salary, I have no idea of how much deposit they put down, but the house value was more like 4 to 5 times salary. Holidays were really a thing back then, it was more a case of a family outing on a coach for a day at the seaside. My dad bought his first car second hand off his brother, by 65, my dad bought his first new car.

My son and girlfriend met when he was at college, she went to university, in Lincolnshire just after he had started his first job. He would drive up from Essex to see her a couple of times a month at weekends. After she graduated and returned to her parents home, he would still have a 75 mile round trip every weekend to go and see her. They would still go out however, about 4 years ago they got engaged and started saving for a house. Every year, after his girlfriend had graduated, they have been to Greece for a fortnight, plus the odd weekend away in the UK. 3 yes ago my son got his first new car on PCP, he is currently on his second, 18 months ago, they got a mortgage and the keys to their house. Neither of them have credit cards, they paid for all the furniture and white goods themselves from their savings. They both earn a few grand each over the average UK wage, yet they are doing just fine, intact my son says they can do it all on just his wage.
So I would say it is possible, just by being careful, rather than going without.

 

[jonbeeza]

Hmm. Starting to see a pattern here; people abused at work by older folk (who are no doubt insecure and feel threatened by new people coming in), so in turn, when they have the 'power', they take it out on younger people. Cos that's gonna make for a nice society, isn't it? I worked in a couple of places where older blokes (it's always blokes, women just don't behave in such a nasty manner towards one another) tried such bullying; didn't work on me. I don't subscribe to such b******t. Perhaps that's why I don't feel the need to take out my frustrations on younger people, like some do...

We could discuss how workplace bullying has it's roots in feudalism and class power structures, but I feel that may be a little too much for some 'sensitive little souls' on here...

All the abusive bad stuff happened to me, and I just had to get on with. In the old days nobody was interested. As a mature adult a good few years ago, at work I would be very lenient with the youngsters under me. I was probably too lenient and easy going, as a few started to take mick with me. But I never changed, and I stayed mild mannered.

 

[nilagin]

Sounds just like the place I worked at, remembering with a shudder. Being asked to crawl under a wagon and undo the sump bolt, and wonder why everyone is laughing, and discovering one idiot has got a blow torch on the soles of my boots, trying to melt them. Yes, having a windy gun hammer fired at you, yes I remember the times.

But anyway, all distant memories thankfully. I don't think youngsters of today, would survive that sort of abuse. They should not have to either.

With World War II having not long ended, maybe it was seen men should be toughened up possibly.

If you have ever seen the film, Made in Dagenham, set in the 60's about the women sewing machinists who made the seat trims and their fight for equal pay to the men. Well they worked on the same River Plant part of the Ford Dagenham estate as where our trade school was situated. I would say we were more fearful of them than we ever were of any of the blokes in the jig shop toolroom next door or any of the toolroom or press shop in the main plant.

 

[jonbeeza]

If you have ever seen the film, Made in Dagenham, set in the 60's about the women sewing machinists who made the seat trims and their fight for equal pay to the men. Well they worked on the same River Plant part of the Ford Dagenham estate as where our trade school was situated. I would say we were more fearful of them than we ever were of any of the blokes in the jig shop toolroom next door or any of the toolroom or press shop in the main plant.

No can't say that I have seen it, but I tend to like that sort of stuff. I will see if it is on YouTube.

 

[Mr Badger]

No can't say that I have seen it, but I tend to like that sort of stuff. I will see if it is on YouTube.

It's a good film, it was on BBC1 after the 10pm news a couple of weeks ago, so might be on BBC iPlayer?

 

[nilagin]

One of the reasons two people have to work to run a household these days is the lifestyle. As I said previously, they want all the modern appliances, fitted carpets and curtains, a luxury kitchen, a couple of continental holidays a year, a car each (often on finance), and if they have children then how much for the latest fancy trainers and clothes, despite the fact they'll have grown out of them in less than a year! Plus all the latest toys and games, which aren't cheap. That's why two people have to work.. to pay for all the stuff they keep buying!

A lot of people don't want to wait and save up for the above, they want it as soon as they leave home... so they strap themselves up with ridiculous amounts of debt and spend the rest of their working lives trying to pay for it, in some sort of vicious circle.

They're OK at the moment as interest rates are low and mortgages are as cheap as chips... but you'll see a lot of worry and misery if interest rates climb... and I wonder how many of them will admit it's their own fault as they tried to have a lifestyle beyond their actual means?

Just a couple of generations ago, most people didn't have a fraction of the possessions, clothes, shoes, etc that a lot of people have these days, they lived far simpler lives and very much within their means. If they'd done OK for themselves their house probably had fitted carpets, one TV, a radio or two, a fridge, a cooker and a washing machine. If they had a good job then they might have a dishwasher and a tumble dryer by their mid-30s (bearing in mind they'd probably got married in their early 20s), and one continental holiday a year, plus a small (often second hand) car for their wife, and go out for a meal a couple of times a month. The rest of the time it was home cooking (a takeaway meal, other then fish and chips, was a rare novelty treat) , and they'd go to bed at 10.30pm during the working week when the TV programmes ended!

Compare that simple lifestyle with that which a lot of working people have today and you'll see where the money goes. It's their choice, but don't come whinging to me about them being hard done by! Who's choice is that?

My son and his girlfriend have a fixed rate mortgage, so they are fine for a few more years yet. Plus my sons car is on 0% finance, so ok there too. Other than finance that my son had on a guitar, they don't have any other debt. They furnished their house from their savings.
They are getting married in September and to be honest, the wife and I haven't got a clue what to buy them as there isn't anything they need for their home, they have bought it all already.

 

[Mr Badger]

My son and his girlfriend have a fixed rate mortgage, so they are fine for a few more years yet. Plus my sons car is on 0% finance, so ok there too. Other than finance that my son had on a guitar, they don't have any other debt. They furnished their house from their savings.
They are getting married in September and to be honest, the wife and I haven't got a clue what to buy them as there isn't anything they need for their home, they have bought it all already.

They sound like very sensible people and I wish them every happiness together.

 

[jonbeeza]

It's a good film, it was on BBC1 after the 10pm news a couple of weeks ago, so might be on BBC iPlayer?

Thanks for that, I will certainly have a look for it.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

It's their choice, but don't come whinging to me about them being hard done by! Who's choice is that?

They typically don't have the choice you seem to think they should.

All societies exert pressure on their members. These pressures are very effective in that most members of a society conform to the rules imposed on them. Failing to conform to the rules of a particular group can have catastrophic consequences for some people, such as depression, resulting too often in suicide

In our society consumption is an essential part of that pressure. Children are pushed to have particular toys and those who lack them are disadvantaged against their peers. Teenagers are pushed to wear the current fashions and belong to the "correct" groups on-line. Young adults are pushed to drive the latest cars and live in the "right" neighbourhoods.

There are always those who resist these pressures. Some start their own trends and benefit from doing so but most become more or less outcasts from the main body. The more stable are seen as "odd" while those who have stronger self images are tagged as "troublesome".

It's interesting that this societal pressure is often strongest among criminals, as typified by the phrase "out of order" to describe a criminal who breaks the norms of his peers.

 

[jonbeeza]

If you have ever seen the film, Made in Dagenham, set in the 60's about the women sewing machinists who made the seat trims and their fight for equal pay to the men. Well they worked on the same River Plant part of the Ford Dagenham estate as where our trade school was situated. I would say we were more fearful of them than we ever were of any of the blokes in the jig shop toolroom next door or any of the toolroom or press shop in the main plant.

It's a good film, it was on BBC1 after the 10pm news a couple of weeks ago, so might be on BBC iPlayer?

This programme is not currently available on BBC iPlayer

But I have found it on Netflix. Just need to get the missus to login now.

 

[nilagin]

Hmm. Starting to see a pattern here; people abused at work by older folk (who are no doubt insecure and feel threatened by new people coming in), so in turn, when they have the 'power', they take it out on younger people. Cos that's gonna make for a nice society, isn't it? I worked in a couple of places where older blokes (it's always blokes, women just don't behave in such a nasty manner towards one another) tried such bullying; didn't work on me. I don't subscribe to such b******t. Perhaps that's why I don't feel the need to take out my frustrations on younger people, like some do...

We could discuss how workplace bullying has it's roots in feudalism and class power structures, but I feel that may be a little too much for some 'sensitive little souls' on here...

For what I experienced, I wouldn't call it bullying, it was more a case of high jinx. For whatever the older men dished out, they were always certain to get something in return, it was just playing pranks on each other.

For years, in our toolroom, anyone getting married (no matter their age) would get stripped, held down on the floor, straps placed around ankles and wrists and nailed to the wooden floor, then left over food from the night shift canteen service, cold baked beans, custard, gravy, whatever, poured all over your body.
No one was actually singled out for such treatment, it happened to everyone. One bloke enjoyed it so much, he spent almost the whole day walking around naked, it got to the point where he had to be told to put his cloths back on.

 

[jonbeeza]

For what I experienced, I wouldn't call it bullying, it was more a case of high jinx. For whatever the older men dished out, they were always certain to get something in return, it was just playing pranks on each other...

It's not so bad when things are equal, and it can be simple larking about fun.

 

[nilagin]

It's a good film, it was on BBC1 after the 10pm news a couple of weeks ago, so might be on BBC iPlayer?

I always try to watch it when it is on TV, even though I have it on DVD. Both my parents, my dads brother and my mum's father all worked at Ford Dagenham as well as me, even though the film was set long before I started there, it brings back great memories, and although the factory scenes were actually filmed somewhere in Wales, they certainly got a feel for the place in the way it was portrayed.
Sadly the River Plant was sold off quite a few years ago and a power station now sits on the site.

A photo of the Ford women portrayed in the film. The woman 4th from the right was still there in 79 when I started my apprenticeship.

 

[AZ6]

For years, in our toolroom, anyone getting married (no matter their age) would get stripped, held down on the floor, straps placed around ankles and wrists and nailed to the wooden floor, then left over food from the night shift canteen service, cold baked beans, custard, gravy, whatever, poured all over your body.

Sorry, but that's just f***ed up.

All the abusive bad stuff happened to me, and I just had to get on with.

And you don't see that as abuse? Perhaps it's why you (and others) are so out of touch with younger people. You don't 'get' why they are able to kick back against such bullying and peer pressure.

I don't think youngsters of today, would survive that sort of abuse. They should not have to either.

How do you know? Human beings haven't got 'soft'; if anything, they're more resilient. You're definitely not any 'tougher' than them, no matter how you would like to think so. From your own admission; you weren't tough enough to stand up to workplace bullying. Praps todays youngsters are actually harder than you?

 

[jonbeeza]

I always try to watch it when it is on TV, even though I have it on DVD. Both my parents, my dads brother and my mum's father all worked at Ford Dagenham as well as me, even though the film was set long before I started there, it brings back great memories, and although the factory scenes were actually filmed somewhere in Wales, they certainly got a feel for the place in the way it was portrayed.
Sadly the River Plant was sold off quite a few years ago and a power station now sits on the site.
View attachment 277076
A photo of the Ford women portrayed in the film. The woman 4th from the right was still there in 79 when I started my apprenticeship.

I love old photos, I like seeing how things used to be.

Missus is going for a lie down, she is in a bit of pain today. I might go in as well, got a TV in the bedroom. See if I can watch it on Netflix.

 

[jonbeeza]

And you don't see that as abuse? Perhaps it's why you (and others) are so out of touch with younger people. You don't 'get' why they are able to kick back against such bullying and peer pressure.

But I did see it as abuse, but in those days nobody gave two hoots. The bosses were in on the abuse also, so they just laughed at me. But anyway, that was in the past. I was a scrawny little runt way back in the day, so it was impossible to defend myself.

 

[AZ6]

But I did see it as abuse, but in those days nobody gave two hoots. The bosses were in on the abuse also, so they just laughed at me. But anyway, that was in the past. I was a scrawny little runt way back in the day, so it was impossible to defend myself.

So, given your own experience, would you want others to suffer the same?

 

[nilagin]

Sorry, but that's just f***ed up.



And you don't see that as abuse? Perhaps it's why you (and others) are so out of touch with younger people. You don't 'get' why they are able to kick back against such bullying and peer pressure.




How do you know? Human beings haven't got 'soft'; if anything, they're more resilient. You're definitely not any 'tougher' than them, no matter how you would like to think so. From your own admission; you weren't tough enough to stand up to workplace bullying. Praps todays youngsters are actually harder than you?

The younger generation don't kick back because they have nothing comparable to kick back against. Diversity courses and everything having to be PC has put paid to all that. Our apprentices still play pranks on each other, but it is all very mild in comparison, when we explain what it was like years ago, they are gobsmacked to say the least.
As for the getting married ritual, it isn't much different to being stripped off naked and being handcuffed to a lamp post or left on a train on your stag night.

 

[AZ6]

The younger generation don't kick back because they have nothing comparable to kick back against. Diversity courses and everything having to be PC has put paid to all that.

Do you mean; tightening up of H+S legislation, better implementation of laws regarding assault, and better conditions for workers? Is that what you mean? What's wrong with people learning about how to be better human beings? Don't you agree that we should all strive to be better people?

Or do you think we should return to the days of gross employee abuse, wage inequality and dangerous conditions? Would you prefer that?

 

[nilagin]

Do you mean; tightening up of H+S legislation, better implementation of laws regarding assault, and better conditions for workers? Is that what you mean? What's wrong with people learning about how to be better human beings? Don't you agree that we should all strive to be better people?

Or do you think we should return to the days of gross employee abuse, wage inequality and dangerous conditions? Would you prefer that?

As I said from my experience, it wasn't abuse, it was just playing pranks on each other. The Ford women sewing machinists held the protests in 1968, by the time I started in 79, Ford had equal pay for quite a few years. I spent most of my adult life working in dangerous conditions and you earn respect for those conditions.
It's like a child that has never touched a hot radiator, they get told not to touch it because it is hot, but they have no real concept of what that warning actually means unless they do touch it. I am not saying they should touch it, but somethings are better learnt from some sort of experience.

 

[woof woof]

This is funny but if you're a young snowflake be prepared to have a melt down.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1RbgGB1Q3s

 

[woof woof]

Abusive bad stuff happens but we also have free will and it is possible to make a conscious decision to break the cycle and not do unto others as was done unto us.

 

[AZ6]

I spent most of my adult life working in dangerous conditions and you earn respect for those conditions.
It's like a child that has never touched a hot radiator, they get told not to touch it because it is hot, but they have no real concept of what that warning actually means unless they do touch it. I am not saying they should touch it, but somethings are better learnt from some sort of experience.

Isn't it more sensible to remove the danger, than risk working with it? Do you think you're 'tougher' than today's young people, because of your experiences?

 

[woof woof]

Isn't it more sensible to remove the danger, than risk working with it? Do you think you're 'tougher' than today's young people, because of your experiences?

Based on this and your posts I've read recently you're either having a grouchy day or being deliberately argumentative and provocative.

Which is it?

I can see a lot of people reaching for the ignore button if you keep this up.

 

[Cockney]

Isn't it more sensible to remove the danger, than risk working with it? Do you think you're 'tougher' than today's young people, because of your experiences?

Yes.

 

[nilagin]

Isn't it more sensible to remove the danger, than risk working with it? Do you think you're 'tougher' than today's young people, because of your experiences?

Working in power presses, only so much danger can be removed, it can never be 100% safe. Some of my work colleagues would refuse to work in power presses because they were frightened of them.


This is me working inside a 1000 Ton power press a few years ago. The yellow pillars in the corners are safety props, there's one in each corner on this particular press, to stop the press ram free falling should the compressed air supply fail. What you can't see above my head is a huge lump of metal, probably 5 ton or more, bolted to an inner ram. If the bolts failed clamping that 5 to weight to the inner ram, there is nothing other than the casting flange from preventing it falling right through and crushing me.
Some quake in their boots at the thought of working under that, especially in a noisy, busy press shop, and the press you are in can shake from the vibration of 100's of other presses turning over around you.
I have encountered younger generation who think getting a cut at work is a big deal, running off to the medical or find a first aide for a plaster and treat it as a badge of honour. I just wrap a tissue round it with masking tape and continue working.

 

[nilagin]

I love old photos, I like seeing how things used to be.

Missus is going for a lie down, she is in a bit of pain today. I might go in as well, got a TV in the bedroom. See if I can watch it on Netflix.

I'm taking a trip down memory lane, I'm now watching it on Netflix too.

 

[Nod]

About 30 years before that (Dagenham Girls) was set, Ford had a different way of dealing with the unions in the USA.

 

[AZ6]

Yes.

Are you? Please explain why you think this.

Based on this and your posts I've read recently you're either having a grouchy day or being deliberately argumentative and provocative.

Which is it?

I can see a lot of people reaching for the ignore button if you keep this up.

Well, feel free to do that yourself, if you want. I'm not stopping you. This is a 'discussion'. If you can't handle it, then that's down to you.

Working in power presses, only so much danger can be removed, it can never be 100% safe. Some of my work colleagues would refuse to work in power presses because they were frightened of them.


This is me working inside a 1000 Ton power press a few years ago. The yellow pillars in the corners are safety props, there's one in each corner on this particular press, to stop the press ram free falling should the compressed air supply fail. What you can't see above my head is a huge lump of metal, probably 5 ton or more, bolted to an inner ram. If the bolts failed clamping that 5 to weight to the inner ram, there is nothing other than the casting flange from preventing it falling right through and crushing me.
Some quake in their boots at the thought of working under that, especially in a noisy, busy press shop, and the press you are in can shake from the vibration of 100's of other presses turning over around you.
I have encountered younger generation who think getting a cut at work is a big deal, running off to the medical or find a first aide for a plaster and treat it as a badge of honour. I just wrap a tissue round it with masking tape and continue working.

See; I'd never work in something like that. Because I value my life far more than anyone is willing to pay me for risking it in such a manner. It's got nothing to do with 'balls' or being 'tough' or 'brave' or any other macho b******t. There are no medals to be won here. Just profits. For someone else. How much an hour were you being paid to do that? Praps you just weren't tough enough to stand up to your employers and say I'm not doing this, my life is worth more to me than this job'.

I have encountered younger generation who think getting a cut at work is a big deal, running off to the medical or find a first aide for a plaster and treat it as a badge of honour. I just wrap a tissue round it with masking tape and continue working.

Ever heard of Sepsis? Got to say; all you've come up with is an attempt at macho posturing. It might impress others, but it doesn't impress me. 'Ooh look at me, I'm a big tough man, I can do something really dangerous'. There's kids in mines in Africa and places, do stuff far more dangerous than anything you had to face mate. Thing is, they don't have a choice.

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

One of the reasons two people have to work to run a household these days is the lifestyle. As I said previously, they want all the modern appliances, fitted carpets and curtains, a luxury kitchen, a couple of continental holidays a year, a car each (often on finance), and if they have children then how much for the latest fancy trainers and clothes, despite the fact they'll have grown out of them in less than a year! Plus all the latest toys and games, which aren't cheap. That's why two people have to work.. to pay for all the stuff they keep buying!

How has this supposed lifestyle contributed to the fact that houses are now eight to ten times the average salary? Which is the real reason you need two salaries to buy a house.

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

My daughter went to university (first one from my family) saved for a deposit and this week completed on a nice bungalow at just under 29.
It can still be done on your own if you are sensible, her phone is a few generations back and car is a five years old small hatchback
Admittedly doesn't drink or smoke which helps, but has had some decent holidays and fair few meals out
No inheritance or money from us although we didn't take any housekeeping, our small way of helping her get started.
Very proud of her, just a shame she can't get moved in properly

Similar to me.

But I also understand, as I'm sure most do. That it is still a fairly privileged position to be in these days.

 

[jonbeeza]

So, given your own experience, would you want others to suffer the same?

What I said in post 165.

Sounds just like the place I worked at, remembering with a shudder. Being asked to crawl under a wagon and undo the sump bolt, and wonder why everyone is laughing, and discovering one idiot has got a blow torch on the soles of my boots, trying to melt them. Yes, having a windy gun hammer fired at you, yes I remember the times.

But anyway, all distant memories thankfully. I don't think youngsters of today, would survive that sort of abuse. They should not have to either.

With World War II having not long ended, maybe it was seen men should be toughened up possibly.

Hiya @AZ6 , Talk Photography is usually a nice place to visit, and have a chat about this and that. It is a bit like going to the pub and having a catch up, to talk about anything and nothing. I will continue to engage in nice pleasant chat, but when it becomes hostile I won't bother.

 

[nilagin]

See; I'd never work in something like that. Because I value my life far more than anyone is willing to pay me for risking it in such a manner. It's got nothing to do with 'balls' or being 'tough' or 'brave' or any other macho b******t. There are no medals to be won here. Just profits. For someone else. How much an hour were you being paid to do that? Praps you just weren't tough enough to stand up to your employers and say I'm not doing this, my life is worth more to me than this job'.

All I can say is, you have a very odd outlook on work. We weren't forced to work in the presses. It was part of the job, I could have remained in the toolroom just building press tools, I volunteered to work on the tools in the presses, as I preferred the variation in the work and satisfaction of making the press tools produce panels.
My hourly rate was exactly the same as a toolmaker working in the toolroom and the same rate of other skilled workers at the time, such as those where I work now, sitting in a soundproof control room, testing engines in the dyno cell next door.

 

[nilagin]

About 30 years before that (Dagenham Girls) was set, Ford had a different way of dealing with the unions in the USA.

I had never heard of this, but the way that reads it was a localised Management reaction as opposed to a company action.
In all my 30 odd years working at Dagenham, the management and union relationships would differ wildly in the Assembley plant, the Engine plant and the Stamping plant.
Now I am at Dunton it is completely different again. We always used to hear stories of what the Engine plant was like, and we always thought they were made up. When our stamping plant closed in 2013, some of my workmates ended up in the Engine plant and can confirm that the stories we heard are probably true as they reflected the relationship between workers/union and the management, that they are now experiencing.
It's like each part of the plant is like working for a completely different company.

 

[Cockney]

Are you? Please explain why you think this.


Well, feel free to do that yourself, if you want. I'm not stopping you. This is a 'discussion'. If you can't handle it, then that's down to you.





See; I'd never work in something like that. Because I value my life far more than anyone is willing to pay me for risking it in such a manner. It's got nothing to do with 'balls' or being 'tough' or 'brave' or any other macho b******t. There are no medals to be won here. Just profits. For someone else. How much an hour were you being paid to do that? Praps you just weren't tough enough to stand up to your employers and say I'm not doing this, my life is worth more to me than this job'.



Ever heard of Sepsis? Got to say; all you've come up with is an attempt at macho posturing. It might impress others, but it doesn't impress me. 'Ooh look at me, I'm a big tough man, I can do something really dangerous'. There's kids in mines in Africa and places, do stuff far more dangerous than anything you had to face mate. Thing is, they don't have a choice.

No.