NSFW This is one of the most disgusting things ever...

bastards - I hope his colleagues hit them with a napalm strike and return the favour (goes to show that its got jacks*** to do with Islam as a) Jordanians are muslims too , and b) the quran calls for honorable treatment of captives )
 
Yv said:
:( These are really not people you can negotiate with are they.
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I really agree.......and it is about time we and other nations need to go in and stop this evil group of scum from progressing or breeding their hatred.....
 
How do you deal with these people? As has been said, you cant talk to them or rationalise with them, and yes, they seem to be gathering supporters and spreading. This only leaves the alternative (as I see it) of mass destruction of IS supporters, but we are talking of killing many thousands of people including the innocent non IS supporters who unfortunately are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Yet, they see death as a sure way to paradise if its in the name of their God, so the threat of being killed is no deterrent.
Most wars, have ultimately been settled by dialogue, but that's not going to happen here unless the non IS supporters give in to the IS threats and beliefs, that isn't an option, and any person with a religious belief, no matter what strain it may be, will not support this cruelty, and I include humanists and non believers in this category.
So what is the answer? it seems to come back to mass destruction again, and we've seen that before.!!
I leave the question open for your thoughts.
 
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Sometimes peace is a hard pill to swallow......especially if that pill is to blanket bomb an area with innocents...... it's a choice that we as, reasonably decent humans need to make....... collateral damage may be the only alternative....... it's like when gangrene gets into your leg.....sometimes the whole leg good and bad needs disposed of so the rest of your body can survive.....if Isis goes unchallenged before long they will have spread into every part of humanity and believe me they won't care about collateral damage
 
archangel said:
Sometimes peace is a hard pill to swallow......especially if that pill is to blanket bomb an area with innocents...... it's a choice that we as, reasonably decent humans need to make....... collateral damage may be the only alternative.......
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Maybe, I don't know. I am fairly certain however that this is exactly what they want. They want to set the world on fire. They want Islam V the West and western supported states.

We really do need to avoid that.

I feel the answer, whatever it is, can only come from within Islam. I have no doubt we have agencies and people working towards facilitating that.
 
It has been suggested by Sky reporters that this could just be the catalyst needed for the Muslim states to put aside the differences and form a coalition army to take on IS before they are all have them stomping across their borders. Whilst I agree that the battle against ISIS does need to be led by the Islamic countries of the area, with help [not leadership] from the west where needed and requested, I am less confident that it will happen just yet.

Latest reports are also saying the pilot was murdered a month ago, not confirmed yet, but if that is the case, the negotiations were pointless anyway, just another IS game.
 
simon ess said:
Maybe, I don't know. I am fairly certain however that this is exactly what they want. They want to set the world on fire. They want Islam V the West and western supported states.

We really do need to avoid that.

I feel the answer, whatever it is, can only come from within Islam. I have no doubt we have agencies and people working towards facilitating that.
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While I agree with you, it seems even the Imams and Islam leaders are at a loss as to how to tackle the problem, probably because this group aren't following the true teaching of the Koran.
 
archangel said:
I really agree.......and it is about time we and other nations need to go in and stop this evil group of scum from progressing or breeding their hatred.....
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The Pesh Merga have got them on the run in northern iraq (mind you you've got to be nuts to mess with the kurds... saddam couldnt beat them even after he used mustard gas and sarin) but they baddly need weapons and supplies... thing is turkey is less than keen because they also have a kurdish region that wants independence.

End of the day air power and naval gunnery/harpoons is all very well but to beat them you need boots on the ground and that needs to be Arab/Muslim led as if the west do it, ISS will paint themselves as resistance to western occupation
 
simon ess said:
Maybe, I don't know. I am fairly certain however that this is exactly what they want. They want to set the world on fire. They want Islam V the West and western supported states.

We really do need to avoid that.

I feel the answer, whatever it is, can only come from within Islam. I have no doubt we have agencies and people working towards facilitating that.
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Spot on that's what they want us to do
yes the answer has to be countries in the middle east coming together to sort out isis
 
archangel said:
Sometimes peace is a hard pill to swallow......especially if that pill is to blanket bomb an area with innocents...... it's a choice that we as, reasonably decent humans need to make....... collateral damage may be the only alternative....... it's like when gangrene gets into your leg.....sometimes the whole leg good and bad needs disposed of so the rest of your body can survive.....if Isis goes unchallenged before long they will have spread into every part of humanity and believe me they won't care about collateral damage
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Dealing with people who have an ideology 1000 years (maybe more) behind the west. A rabid group of if ever there was one. They are an enemy that has to be destroyed completely and at whatever cost it takes.
 
archangel said:
Sometimes peace is a hard pill to swallow......especially if that pill is to blanket bomb an area with innocents...... it's a choice that we as, reasonably decent humans need to make....... collateral damage may be the only alternative....... it's like when gangrene gets into your leg.....sometimes the whole leg good and bad needs disposed of so the rest of your body can survive.....if Isis goes unchallenged before long they will have spread into every part of humanity and believe me they won't care about collateral damage
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They aren't going to be carpet bombed.
 
LCPete said:
Spot on that's what they want us to do
yes the answer has to be countries in the middle east coming together to sort out isis
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They are incapable of that.
 
simon ess said:
Maybe, I don't know. I am fairly certain however that this is exactly what they want. They want to set the world on fire. They want Islam V the West and western supported states.
.
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I tend to agree - although the other option is to accept that its coming and take them on head on

Isis would last about 10 minuites against an all out war effort from Nato troops with no hold barred- but the trouble is our politicians don't have the balls for that either so they'd try to do it on the cheap with not enough troops and daft RoE.

Thats what we really need to avoid (and we wouldnt be in this mess if we hadn't gone the half arsed route in Iraq the first time round)
 
arclight said:
They are incapable of that.
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Yes you're probably right but the only solution is from Muslim countries dealing with it
Or us helping them to take them out
 
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ISIS will last a great deal longer than 10 minutes, they'll just adapt.
The full might of the US couldn't defeat the Viet Cong, ISIS is no different and the side effect will be a recruiting coup for them.

There is no dealing with this lot, there never has been, but people in the UK don'[t want to know that. ISIS are a very serious threat to the Western way of life, meanwhile, we can look forward to a another eduction in the Armed Forces and Police after the election, because we don't need them (don't want to pay for them in normal speak)!
 
Yv said:
Well I suppose this time there is no doubt over whether IS exists...
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lol yes - though i wasnt so much thinking of the kicking saddams arse - it was more the fight against the iran funded medhi army in 2004 - which we won although the PWRR were operating on a show string as usual , and several brave men didnt make it home - in part because a battalion was asked to do a brigade sized job
 
LCPete said:
Yes you're probably right but the only solution is from Muslim countries dealing with it
Or us helping them to take them out
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The feeling I keep getting is that we'll have to do the dirty work and then when ISIS are defeated and another terrorist group starts up, it'll be our fault and we'll go through it all again. The western governments really need to grow a pair and say "Okay we've had enough, if you want terror then that's what you are getting." Throw away the rule book and hit them so hard that it'll be a long time before anyone even thinks about starting up again. All we'll probably get are a few angry statements from the politicians.
 
big soft moose said:
bastards - I hope his colleagues hit them with a napalm strike and return the favour (goes to show that its got jacks*** to do with Islam as a) Jordanians are muslims too , and b) the quran calls for honorable treatment of captives )
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I guess that's what made it worse - he was seen as some form of traitor to the religion. At least a Westerner just an infidel... whereas a fellow Muslim should 'know better' and not be fighting against them.
 
Laudrup said:
They aren't going to be carpet bombed.
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You just never know........if things are allowed to get any worse that may be the only option left........like cancer if it left to its own devices soon it will spread..........

Personally I would like to see this solved with as little death as possible but if our governments don't act these scrum bags will soon be s***ting in our pockets......
 
Hiroshima saved 1 million lives

I'm sure thats how they justified it.
 
The only people who can stop this is Muslims.
Any action by the west will just create more p***ed off people and will continue the "jihad" for many more generations.

The Muslim population needs to rise up and demand this stops in the name Islam. Yes they will need to use force, but eventually hopefully would be members of Isis will realise that thier aims are actually completely pointless as the majority of "thier people" don't want nor agree with it.
The longer the Muslim countries stand back and ignore this, the harder it's going to be to stop it.

I still think this is going to end up with rival groups fighting each other.. Al Qaeda won't tolerate Isis taking all the glory and there is bound to be in fighting between the different factions. Hopefully they will blow themselves into oblivion and leave everyone else out of it.
 
A deceased relative of mine who fought in WW2, once said to me:

"Never turn your back on an Arab, but leave them alone and they will kill each other".

He wasn't an intellectual but was speaking from his experiences. If that statement sounds racist, then I apologise, I didn't meant it to be that way, but as a general statement, it could easily apply to this group, and as Tom mentioned, the in-fighting between the various factions could well result in this.
 
Trev4 said:
A deceased relative of mine who fought in WW2, once said to me:

"Never turn your back on an Arab, but leave them alone and they will kill each other".

He wasn't an intellectual but was speaking from his experiences. If that statement sounds racist, then I apologise, I didn't meant it to be that way, but as a general statement, it could easily apply to this group, and as Tom mentioned, the in-fighting between the various factions could well result in this.
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maybe, certainly Al Quaeda and ISIS are not exactly friends, but I suspect if that approach is adopted, there will more collateral damage than any of us could stomach, both amongst innocents within the countries concerned and westerners over there and here before any kind of 'successful' outcome is achieved. As I said earlier, I am with others in here, an Arab led international force is probably the only way forward in this battle.
 
Trev4 said:
How do you deal with these people?.
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nuke-t2.jpg
 
Yv said:
maybe, certainly Al Quaeda and ISIS are not exactly friends, but I suspect if that approach is adopted, there will more collateral damage than any of us could stomach, both amongst innocents within the countries concerned and westerners over there and here before any kind of 'successful' outcome is achieved. As I said earlier, I am with others in here, an Arab led international force is probably the only way forward in this battle.
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No matter what action is applied, there is going to be collateral damage in a big way, both in the east and west I fear. I do agree that the feet on the ground (and in the air) should be of Arab origin, if the west are actively rather than passively involved, its going to exacerbate the situation for decades to come.
If the Arab nations are ultimately the ones who front the action, then it comes back to the (oversimplified) statement I gave earlier, "leave them alone and they will kill each other"
 
It would appear that the Jordanians and Japanese are not messing about as they both seem to be saying "to hell with it" and intend to kill all their IS prisoners.
Norway has released a "hate cleric" and banished him to a remote village at least until the end of 2015

They are taking action.

Back in the early 90's I met a group of Muslim taxi drivers, all appeared to be totally mad as they wished to go and support their brothers in the Balkan wars. They seemed to have no concept that it was war and not some bloody video game. They were unfazed when I pointed this out.
 
ChasG said:
It would appear that the Jordanians and Japanese are not messing about as they both seem to be saying "to hell with it" and intend to kill all their IS prisoners.
Norway has released a "hate cleric" and banished him to a remote village at least until the end of 2015

They are taking action.
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I have missed the news about them killing the IS prisoners and am surprised if Japan has made this statement. However, in my view, the good thing about the killing of the Japanese journalists and the Jordanian pilot (if anything good can be said about this abhorrent act), is that it will be a catalyst to bring these and other supporting nations into the fray to oppose IS.
 
ChasG said:
It would appear that the Jordanians and Japanese are not messing about as they both seem to be saying "to hell with it" and intend to kill all their IS prisoners.
.
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That supposedly worked for the russians against the PLO. while we were tossing about trying to get terry waite released diplomatically the PLO kidnapped a russian diplomat ... so GRU alledgedly grabbed 6 top PLO men , and returned one with his head missing (some versions say something more intimate), and said release our man now or get the rest the same way then we are coming for arafat... the PLO released the russian and never took another Russian hostage.

While western countries arent supposed to do that kind of thing , sometimes you have to fight fire with fire as its the only language these scummers understand
 
big soft moose said:
That supposedly worked for the russians against the PLO. while we were tossing about trying to get terry waite released diplomatically the PLO kidnapped a russian diplomat ... so GRU alledgedly grabbed 6 top PLO men , and returned one with his head missing (some versions say something more intimate), and said release our man now or get the rest the same way then we are coming for arafat... the PLO released the russian and never took another Russian hostage.

While western countries arent supposed to do that kind of thing , sometimes you have to fight fire with fire as its the only language these scummers understand
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Yep I rember that,I think I was part of the body men are very fond of they threaten to cut of,and in thoses time the Russian would of done it.
 
Trev4 said:
I have missed the news about them killing the IS prisoners and am surprised if Japan has made this statement. However, in my view, the good thing about the killing of the Japanese journalists and the Jordanian pilot (if anything good can be said about this abhorrent act), is that it will be a catalyst to bring these and other supporting nations into the fray to oppose IS.
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apologies for the daily heil link (granuaid has it too but wouldnt let me copy the link for some reason) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...soners-terror-group-killed-pilot-hostage.html

japan were less specific vowing revenge (which is unusual for them unless they mean it) http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/02/w...e-premier-vows-revenge-for-killings.html?_r=0
 
big soft moose said:
apologies for the daily heil link (granuaid has it too but wouldnt let me copy the link for some reason) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...soners-terror-group-killed-pilot-hostage.html

japan were less specific vowing revenge (which is unusual for them unless they mean it) http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/02/w...e-premier-vows-revenge-for-killings.html?_r=0
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Something I fully admit had completely passed me by, Japan has a modern and strong armed forces but has never fired a shot in anger since the end of the 2nd world war. This latest episode with the murdered hostage is causing some consternation and looking again at their pacifist constitution, which I am guessing is what your link alludes to, although I haven't read it yet. Hand up, guilty as charged, that was news to me.... i guess out of sight out of mind, they never really feature in international discussions about action in country XYZ so I hadn't thought about them that way :(
 
the treaty that ended WW2 prettymuch forbids them from serving overseas (same for the germans) imo its time that was lifted as the JSDF may be small but they are more than capable of taking on IS and they may now have the political will to do it - unike our gutless politicians the japanese won't be making their forces fight with one hand tied behind their back

For Jordan its even more pressing because they have borders with syria , so if IS arent shut down they could be next (this is also true of Turkey and Egypt - and in someways Iran, although tbh Iran are Shia and much less likely to have any truck with the principally Sunni IS - and the Iranian military are pretty fanatical in their own right - I can't see IS going east out of Iraq any time soon - like wise with going south the Saudi and Kuwaiti military can handle them - plus theres a big american contingent down there)
 
Personally I think some form of heavy action is needed, however I can understand the reluctance of our leaders to act... Firstly it does need the Muslim led countries to lead with action, but also look at the way the whole Afghan/Iraq war has ended up. All this talk of an illegal war (quite what a legal one is I don't know)... and rightly or wrongly Bush & Blair are hounded over this. Hindsight is a wonderful thing (had we listened to Churchill in 35/36 and acted on Hitler then the course of history would be different) - Maybe Saddam didn't have WMD but he was acting like an idiot or had something to hide and at the end of the day was not a nice man!
 
cambsno said:
Maybe Saddam didn't have WMD but he was acting like an idiot or had something to hide and at the end of the day was not a nice man!
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the other thing is we know he had WMD - he used Sarin gas and Mustard gas in the Iran/iraq war and on the Kurds and on the Marsh arabs - what we don't know is what he did with it... smart money says he shipped it to Syria or Iran just before the invasion. That tends to get a bit lost in the furore about the dodgy dossier - it wasnt totally made up,just exagerated - in particular the bit about missiles able to reach cyprus , when in reality they could just barely reach isreal , and he never used chemical warheads on them because he knew they'd retaliate with a nuke
 
cambsno said:
Personally I think some form of heavy action is needed, however I can understand the reluctance of our leaders to act... Firstly it does need the Muslim led countries to lead with action, but also look at the way the whole Afghan/Iraq war has ended up. All this talk of an illegal war (quite what a legal one is I don't know)... and rightly or wrongly Bush & Blair are hounded over this. Hindsight is a wonderful thing (had we listened to Churchill in 35/36 and acted on Hitler then the course of history would be different) - Maybe Saddam didn't have WMD but he was acting like an idiot or had something to hide and at the end of the day was not a nice man!
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But their are lots of mad & bad men out their,their is a good case for pulling out altogether,and letting the Muslim world sort this out.
IS is surrounded on all sides,by much lager armies but none seem willing to fight them except the Kurds,and the only way at the end of the day to to get rid of them for good,like the Nazi is to send in ground troops like we did in WWII and not stop,total war.
But no western countries are willing to do that,we just can't except the casualties it would take anymore,and the casualties we would inflict on the civilians population in those the areas.
 
well a nuclear strike would work as well ... but the countries down wind might be a bit p***ed off
 
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