Together in death..Not for the squeamish.

cyclone said:
Cobra, no I'm not familiar with Frac's work, I haven't been here long (less than a month).
I have no problem with the removal of a problem fox, a friend lost half a coop of prize chickens once.
I do have a problem with fox hunting, a gun is a much quicker and more humane way of dealing with it.
This fox appears to have been lobbed on top of an old timing belt or something, just seems a little wrong.
Click to expand...
I think Frac answered that one so I'll let it be (y)

Kerioak said:
Mink are not even native to the UK are they? I thought most of the wild population was due to animal rightists letting them loose from farms a few years ago?
Click to expand...
Spot on Christine "they" thought "they" were doing the animals a favour by releasing them into the wild,
they are bigger and more powerful than our native stoats and weasles and would have displaced them upsetting the balance.
Mink also actively hunt water-coarses feeding on fish
if they get into a fish farm they cause £1000's & £1000's worth of damage
A victory for the anti's?
 
turbotoes said:
Only if the person on the other end of the gun, knows what they are doing, gets a clean shot, doesn't simply intend to maim the fox in the first place.
I am not saying the maiming bit happens a lot, but it does happen. And even the best shot goes astray at times.

I am speaking as someone who has spent a lot of time on the "right" end of a shotgun. I also live in an area of France considered to be a "hot spot" for Rabies, it's also one of the biggest poultry producing areas and foxes have their place here too.

Tara

Fracster - sorry forgot to I say, I am moved by the image.
Click to expand...

the image is brill, but i don't believe someone would want to maim the fox (on purpose) as you say in your reply, i have been shooting for 35yrs and shot with a lot of other people and never once have i seen or heard of someone maiming a fox with intent.
 
Isn't it frustrating being British. I would guess foreign forums wouldn't be having this conversation about anything other than the image.
It's our (alleged) love for animals versus economics versus class system versus town/country divide.
As human beings we have done more against nature in the name of SURVIVAL than foxes ever have or will.
I don't care whether they hunt them or shoot them. It still adds up to death.
That's life and we are at the top of the food chain. Trouble is there are too many of us!
Who is going to keep our numbers down? We have to rely on despots like Robert Mugabe & Madas Hussein et al.
Cracking image, very sad, C'est la vie as the English say.
 
cason said:
I can see why the photo will upset people who arent used to the rural life, we all love wildlife but there has to be limits.
Click to expand...

I am used to rural life.. Still gets to me why they have to be hunted. It makes me laugh when you see men in their chequered burberry hats walking though the fields with the 2-bore gun and laughing louder than my bike is :LOL:

Still in some areas Fox's pose a treat to farmers livestock so i can sort of understand when farmers have to go to measures to remove them from the area but i don't agree of it when them people are on their high horses with the red jacket on with there dogs with long ears on the ground :shrug: I didn't think they did fox hunting in Naaaaarkfolk, Thanks for blocking up the road with your Big horses i say :LOL:

I heard farmers around here are now putting up electric low powered jolt fences (the one with the cable from fox jumping height to the ground) so why can't they use that everywhere?

Long post, need some energy bars now i think :LOL: It wasn't a moan if you get what i mean :LOL:

Tony (y)
 
Wayned said:
That's life and we are at the top of the food chain.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with saying we are "The top of the food chain" What because we have metal and can make weapons with them does that mean we are the top of the food chain? In that case, i can make a roast dinner, does that make me the bestest roast dinner maker in the world? :LOL:
 
And there was me thinking zombies were at the top of the food chain :)
 
Techno-Geek said:
I don't agree with saying we are "The top of the food chain" What because we have metal and can make weapons with them does that mean we are the top of the food chain? In that case, i can make a roast dinner, does that make me the bestest roast dinner maker in the world? :LOL:
Click to expand...

It is exactly why we are top of the feud chain.
Your last argument is total rubbish because my roast dinners would pick yours up and boot them out of the kitchen.:bat:
 
Techno-Geek said:
I don't agree with saying we are "The top of the food chain" What because we have metal and can make weapons with them does that mean we are the top of the food chain? In that case, i can make a roast dinner, does that make me the bestest roast dinner maker in the world? :LOL:
Click to expand...

We may be the top of the food chain given our weapons, but that's the only reason.

If it came down to me (as God intended) versus a lion...I know who would be eating that night! ;)
 
Wayned said:
It is exactly why we are top of the feud chain.
Your last argument is total rubbish because my roast dinners would pick yours up and boot them out of the kitchen.:bat:
Click to expand...

I know, that is why i said it but i don't agree with it

purpleclouds said:
We may be the top of the food chain given our weapons, but that's the only reason.

If it came down to me (as God intended) versus a lion...I know who would be eating that night! ;)
Click to expand...

Who then?

Please don't say you :LOL:
 
Wayned said:
It is exactly why we are top of the feud chain.
Your last argument is total rubbish because my roast dinners would pick yours up and boot them out of the kitchen.:bat:
Click to expand...

Wayned and Techno-Geek's roast fight night, 10pm be there :LOL: :LOL:

It's cl-cl-clucking goooooooooooood :LOL:
 
purpleclouds said:
Not a fan of the Lion King? :eek:
Click to expand...

mufasa ooohhhhhh eeerrrrrrrrr.....(y)

say it again .... muuufasa ohhhhh..


ok now ill make my reply...


great thread by the way..

make me want to go down town boxing day and shoot the hunt again i did it a few years back but there was a big fuss so i deleted the pics....


i really like the image mate very powerfull

nature is nature and people will always have differing views on these shot... right or wrong.....


md(y)
 
Interesting to see the different way people see things, and their reactions.

I like the picture (not in a put it on the wall way) it says a lot.
 
purpleclouds said:
Now then, I'm not against legitimate population control (in the case of mink etc)...and Fracster, I'm not trying to pick a fight here, I'm just writing how I see it!

Thousands of pheasants are bred, and released into the wild...which is not natural, and therefore within itself, is tinkering with the population. Which is in no way the foxes fault.

Yet it becomes victim to this mass semi-wild population of birds released into it's habitat. Granted, killing for pleasure doesn't do it any favours. The fox died to protect profits, not a population. If it did die to protect a population, then surely those who run around with guns shooting them should also be held to account?

If it had to die due to it's behaviour..mother nature would take care of it perfectly, as she has done so for millions upon millions of years :)

Ps. It is a powerful image..not one I am personally joyous to see, but powerful none the less!
Click to expand...



If I reply to this,will you read it and think about my reply for a few days before coming back with your thoughts on it?

None intended, plus it nay take me a while to type it.....:D
 
some fascinating posts in this thread :D

Breeding, and then killing, purely for entertainment purposes is not something that sits particularly well with me - so killing the fox, for killing what "we" wanted to kill just seems to be very wrong. However, I'm well aware that pests need controlling and that theres a careful balance to be found, I guess its the individual reasoning that gets me.

Frac - I for one would be very interested in your reply. Don't want any kind of arguement, just keen to try and understand the thinking....

Oh and BTW - very powerful image you got there - so many thoughts and emotions provoked no matter which side of the fence you sit on
 
Last edited:
I`m thinking on it,I shall try to put into words the way that it works.Part of me thinks that I am wasting my time, part of me wants to try and explain.

And i`m a bloody slow typist..........:crying:
 
fracster said:
If I reply to this,will you read it and think about my reply for a few days before coming back with your thoughts on it?

None intended, plus it nay take me a while to type it.....:D
Click to expand...

fracster said:
I`m thinking on it,I shall try to put into words the way that it works.Part of me thinks that I am wasting my time, part of me wants to try and explain.

And i`m a bloody slow typist..........:crying:
Click to expand...

Yes, of course :)
 
Give me a bit of time...........(y)
 
I like the shot, was the Pheasant still in its mouth? Seen that a few times.
 
Very good picture

I think some people on here want to hide behind bricks and mortar instead of looking reality in the face. There is a reason to keep fox numbers down and it is only a small proportion that get killed by shooting, a lot more get killed on the roads.

A fox will decimate a chicken coup, pheasant pen, attack cats and small dogs, they are a wild animal with wild animal instincts and I have seen first hand what they are capable of. Pest control is legitimate not illegal most foxes killed on pheasant shoots are mostly opportunistic and not a sure thing.

Fracster, IMO is only showing what his eyes are open to in the countryside if the tree huggers don't like it then they don't have to open the post.

BTW the was a very good documentary about urban foxes on TV not long ago where both sides of the community were seen to do their bit, maybe people on here need to watch and then comment on Fracsters photo.

Nev
 
Should I bother? That is the question I ask myself.

I am no Keats and certainly no Shakespeare, as such, a few of you will pick holes in this, but I have endeavoured to explain as simplistically as I can the nature and reasoning behind country sports.

First and foremost, no longer is it the domain of the landed gentry only, nor has it been for some time. That said, lets dispel the “class” thing once and for all, 50 years ago, 30 years ago maybe, not now. We have electricians, plumbers and allsorts shooting on the land to which I have access.

Pheasants, if a shoot actually shoots 50 % of the birds they put down, then they have had a damned good season.Simplistically, if a keeper puts 8000 birds down, he will do very well to shoot 2000 nevermind 4000. So what happens to the rest? Well,pheasants in the early days are suicidal,simple as that. Ever seen them walking around in their dozens on the roads? Course you have.Many are munched by foxes, a small amount are taken by old badgers,hawks,owls etc etc. Perhaps even kitty gets a few.The rest go on to breed in the wild and carry on living.

I`m not going to go into grouse moors as I don`t know enough about them to comment, but things are not much different.

So, to vermin control. Most keepers are members of BASC, that is the British association of shooting and conservation, seems a bit of a contradiction in terms? Maybe not.

Pheasants need ground cover, game crops and fir trees are planted to provide this, guess what? Yes, other forms of wildlife like this as well,they also eat the crop put down for the pheasants. Plenty of songbirds in the woods where the wheat is put down as they have plenty to eat. More songbirds, more prey for the sparrowhawks to feed their young,more sparrowhawks survive the first winter. We all like seeing sparrowhawks,don`t we? Small rodents also like the wheat, more rodents producing young equals more prey for owls and stoats,we like seeing stoats and owls, don`t we?

Just three examples of the shoot helping other species there, but you get my drift?

Now then, down to what vermin is killed and not killed, there are unscrupulous people out there who kill BOPS,stoats,badgers and allsorts of things that they should not. In my experience they must be few and far between as I know no keepers who kill these things, the grouse keepers I know love seeing the Peregrines and actively protect them from egg stealers and other such scumbags.As in any profession though, there are good and bad, agreed?
So lets start with mink. Mink are not native and decimated the wildfowl population when they were released by well minded,but stupid, activists some years ago.The water birds got murdered by them, until recently.So lets focus on one of our favourites,the kingfisher. There are three reasons for the re-emergence of this bird in my opinion,the biggest two are the cleaning up of waterways(more parr to feed on) and the relentless war that is imposed on mink, both of which have led to the increase in fresh water otters.( As has the outlawing of otter hunting,rightly so IMO). These three facts alone have helped the kingfisher recover. I will cage and kill mink until I can no longer do so, and if that means they become extinct in this country, then so be it. Crucify me for that if you want, but it is how I am about it.

Mr Reynard, now foxes are indiscriminate killers, country foxes will kill anything they can, so watch out, urban foxes will do the same.Pet rabbits,cats,small dogs etc etc, it does happen, not reported much yet, but i`m sure Chris will confirm this occurs. Because the country fox is such a killer, he does not sit well with farmers who loose stock birds and ,more importantly, lambs to this killing machine.Not all farmers, in fact very few now, are wealthy, that is an urban myth.They cannot stand losing lambs to a fox financially. Fact. The foxes next favourite prey are rabbits and pheasants, but there are plenty of rabbits and pheasants I hear you shout.Yes there are, but the rabbits have to go around all predators not just the fox,weasels,stoats birds of prey for example. Mr Fox will kill a full warren for pleasure,denying other animals the food they need to raise their families of young.

Onto the sore point,yep, pheasants. The simple fact is this, if we do not protect enough birds to keep the guns happy, then they will not pay and the shoot will fold, all the good conservation work mentioned is finished, there are people out of work,(the countryside has very high unemployment as it is,) and the land,woods,paths,waterways will not be looked after.Private land has to pay for itself nowadays,shooting and fishing is one way that it can.

End of part one.

Dependant on how much of a “new one” I get ripped for this, depends on wether part two gets done................:D

BAsc website is here, check out the "Facts for journalists"

http://www.basc.org.uk/content/basc_gives_journalists_th
 
And my finger ends are sore..............:LOL:
 
GoLotus said:
some fascinating posts in this thread :D

Breeding, and then killing, purely for entertainment purposed is not something that sits particularly well with me - so killing the fox, for killing what "we" wanted to kill just seems to be very wrong. However, I'm well aware that pests need controlling and that theres a careful balance to be found, I guess its the individual reasoning that gets me.

Frac - I for one would be very interested in your reply. Don't want any kind of arguement, just keen to try and understand the thinking....

Oh and BTW - very powerful image you got there - so many thoughts and emotions provoked no matter which side of the fence you sit on
Click to expand...

Thanks for the comment on the pic, I took it to post on here,not as an image too shock,I thought it powerful and different enough to make people think.I hope that doesn`t sound arzey,not meant too.

Also, a very enlightened response you have made there, nice to see people thinking about both sides rather than just the one...........(y)
 
What it is all about is managing the countryside, good post

Nev
 
Great stuff and looking forward to Part Deux.

:clap:
 
Nev said:
What it is all about is managing the countryside, good post

Nev
Click to expand...

Hacker said:
Great stuff and looking forward to Part Deux.

:clap:
Click to expand...


Thanks fellas, I hope I have explained it well enough.Some will never agree,I accept that, but there are always two sides of the fence,not forgetting the bit on top of the middle................:D
 
fracster said:
Should I bother? That is the question I ask myself.

I am no Keats and certainly no Shakespeare, as such, a few of you will pick holes in this, but I have endeavoured to explain as simplistically as I can the nature and reasoning behind country sports.

First and foremost, no longer is it the domain of the landed gentry only, nor has it been for some time. That said, lets dispel the “class” thing once and for all, 50 years ago, 30 years ago maybe, not now. We have electricians, plumbers and allsorts shooting on the land to which I have access.

Pheasants, if a shoot actually shoots 50 % of the birds they put down, then they have had a damned good season.Simplistically, if a keeper puts 8000 birds down, he will do very well to shoot 2000 nevermind 4000. So what happens to the rest? Well,pheasants in the early days are suicidal,simple as that. Ever seen them walking around in their dozens on the roads? Course you have.Many are munched by foxes, a small amount are taken by old badgers,hawks,owls etc etc. Perhaps even kitty gets a few.The rest go on to breed in the wild and carry on living.

I`m not going to go into grouse moors as I don`t know enough about them to comment, but things are not much different.

So, to vermin control. Most keepers are members of BASC, that is the British association of shooting and conservation, seems a bit of a contradiction in terms? Maybe not.

Pheasants need ground cover, game crops and fir trees are planted to provide this, guess what? Yes, other forms of wildlife like this as well,they also eat the crop put down for the pheasants. Plenty of songbirds in the woods where the wheat is put down as they have plenty to eat. More songbirds, more prey for the sparrowhawks to feed their young,more sparrowhawks survive the first winter. We all like seeing sparrowhawks,don`t we? Small rodents also like the wheat, more rodents producing young equals more prey for owls and stoats,we like seeing stoats and owls, don`t we?

Just three examples of the shoot helping other species there, but you get my drift?

Now then, down to what vermin is killed and not killed, there are unscrupulous people out there who kill BOPS,stoats,badgers and allsorts of things that they should not. In my experience they must be few and far between as I know no keepers who kill these things, the grouse keepers I know love seeing the Peregrines and actively protect them from egg stealers and other such scumbags.As in any profession though, there are good and bad, agreed?
So lets start with mink. Mink are not native and decimated the wildfowl population when they were released by well minded,but stupid, activists some years ago.The water birds got murdered by them, until recently.So lets focus on one of our favourites,the kingfisher. There are three reasons for the re-emergence of this bird in my opinion,the biggest two are the cleaning up of waterways(more parr to feed on) and the relentless war that is imposed on mink, both of which have led to the increase in fresh water otters.( As has the outlawing of otter hunting,rightly so IMO). These three facts alone have helped the kingfisher recover. I will cage and kill mink until I can no longer do so, and if that means they become extinct in this country, then so be it. Crucify me for that if you want, but it is how I am about it.

Mr Reynard, now foxes are indiscriminate killers, country foxes will kill anything they can, so watch out, urban foxes will do the same.Pet rabbits,cats,small dogs etc etc, it does happen, not reported much yet, but i`m sure Chris will confirm this occurs. Because the country fox is such a killer, he does not sit well with farmers who loose stock birds and ,more importantly, lambs to this killing machine.Not all farmers, in fact very few now, are wealthy, that is an urban myth.They cannot stand losing lambs to a fox financially. Fact. The foxes next favourite prey are rabbits and pheasants, but there are plenty of rabbits and pheasants I hear you shout.Yes there are, but the rabbits have to go around all predators not just the fox,weasels,stoats birds of prey for example. Mr Fox will kill a full warren for pleasure,denying other animals the food they need to raise their families of young.

Onto the sore point,yep, pheasants. The simple fact is this, if we do not protect enough birds to keep the guns happy, then they will not pay and the shoot will fold, all the good conservation work mentioned is finished, there are people out of work,(the countryside has very high unemployment as it is,) and the land,woods,paths,waterways will not be looked after.Private land has to pay for itself nowadays,shooting and fishing is one way that it can.

End of part one.

Dependant on how much of a “new one” I get ripped for this, depends on wether part two gets done................:D

BAsc website is here, check out the "Facts for journalists"

http://www.basc.org.uk/content/basc_gives_journalists_th
Click to expand...



Sorry, could you say that again.
 
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