1. willkia

    willkia

    Messages:
    117
    Name:
    Will
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Hi guys,


    So I have been doing some paid work recently for friends. I have been learning lots and really enjoying it.


    - Barber shop, photos of them cutting hair.


    - Friends baby shower. Natural candid shots.


    Here are a few of my photos I have taken recently.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I love the blurred background look.


    When we were at the baby shower they had a backdrop against the wall and they wanted photos. I wasn’t keen on this as I wouldn’t of got the blurred background shot I liked and to be honest, because I am new to photography I couldn’t get my settings right and they came out abit blurry. Think I just needed to bump my F Stop up.


    I just felt like they could of taken those types of shots on any sort of smart phone?


    I then took them outside and I got some really good shots, with a great blurred background which they were all happy with.



    I was out with my sister this weekend with my camera.


    She wanted a cute picture of my niece stood against the wall. My reply to her was ‘just take it on your iphone, my camera isn’t good for shots like that’. Is that the wrong attitude? Or is it just because I am only good with settings when it comes to blurring the background?


    Would you notice the difference between a shot on my Canon camera, and an iphone? Bearing in mind the photo would only really be looked at on the phone and on social media.



    A friend has messaged me to take some photos for her salon. Of her clients. She specialises in really bright colours and wacky hair styles.


    So I messaged her and said shall we go to a forest and take some cool pics, maybe use smoke grenades etc.


    She messaged back and wants some in her salon, she has a backdrop and props.


    I don’t know if I am experienced enough for this. I do have LED lights. I used to use them for my YouTube channel


    Or maybe because I am so used to doing my preferred headshots with the blurred background look I just need to step outside my comfort zone and experiment?


    The only lens I have at the moment is Sigma 18-35mm 1.8.


    Hopefully this thread makes sense.


    As always, thanks for your help guys :)
     
  2. sk66

    sk66

    Messages:
    6,317
    Name:
    Steven
    Edit My Images:
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    LOL! Your camera sucks??? It seems obvious to me that what "you like" is largely do to what you are comfortable with and what you find easy to get reasonable results with.

    IMHO, being a "natural light only" f/1.8 photographer is way too limiting. If you are going to be doing this kind of stuff, then you need to experiment and learn lighting.
     
    omens and AndyG123 like this.
  3. juggler

    juggler

    Messages:
    4,361
    Name:
    Simon
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    What are your friend's expectations?

    I think.. high fashion hair photography is one of the most exacting forms of portraiture. The lighting and processing require a good deal of practice.

    If you're serious about going down this route then you'd do very well to find a local studio photographer who can give you a few hours tuition to get you started.
     
  4. ecoleman

    ecoleman

    Messages:
    4,668
    Name:
    Elliott
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    No
    Although I'd suggest he gets to grips with focal length, aperture and DOF first.
    Sorry but Will is trying to run before he can even crawl.
     
    omens, Bristolian, AndyG123 and 2 others like this.
  5. ancient_mariner

    ancient_mariner

    Messages:
    9,798
    Name:
    Toni
    Edit My Images:
    No
    As an observation and not intended to be nasty, if you think an iPhone can take a better picture then that's because it's taking control away from you as a photographer and image developer, with the pre-set settings being better judged than you are judging 'live' on the scene. And to be honest, the images you've presented look as if they were probably taken on a high-end smartphone with the possible exception of number 2, which is a nice photo that would benefit from good processing.

    Your camera is great for photos like that. For example you could manage the situation and move your neice away from the wall a little, because at 35mm f1.8-f2 you will still manage to defocus the wall a bit if it's 3 feet behind her.

    If you're getting blurry pictures in this situation it's either because you're missing focus (like in image 3, where the hand on the belly is sharp and everything behind that is bluring) or because your shutter speed is too slow to either freeze your moving subject* (like the girls head in image 1) or for you to hand-hold the camera. Increasing f number may not help.

    A comment about backgrounds. When you're taking shots like the baby shower, the background is almost as important as the subject. So in the baby shower picture you have parked cars, brick houses, a very striking paved area and poles sticking out of the head of your main subject. You're getting away with it because you're shooting at a large aperture and the images are being viewed on a tiny screen, but what happens when a customer starts asking for 12" X 16" prints for the wall and the image comes back looking unpresentable? You could fix some of this in post, but from the work you've presented so far, fixing in post isn't something you're doing yet.

    So is this hairdressing assignment too much for you? Yes, if you're being paid, unless they know and are clear that you are learning on the job and that you may not produce shots they can use to advertise their business professionally. I hope this is useful, rather than seen as trying to take you down.

    *FWIW after I stopped doing weddings, a couple of years later I went back and did just one more for some friends. I was rusty, and didn't think that it would be a problem to use 1/15th shutter speed at f2.8 with a 75mm lens with a trpod-mounted camera. I got enough shots for the album, but did not cover myself with glory regarding image quality.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
  6. Phil V

    Phil V

    Messages:
    21,814
    Name:
    Phil
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Reality check!

    Stop hanging out the ‘for hire’ sign until you know what you’re doing!

    You’ll end up with unhappy ‘customers’ and a ruined reputation before you’ve got a chance to develop into a photographer.

    Being ‘a photographer’ means knowing instinctively what to do to create the shot in your head; that’s not the same as knowing what to do to create one shot to a standard you’re happy with but that doesn’t actually stand up to inspection.
     
  7. Box Brownie

    Box Brownie

    Messages:
    6,260
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Further to all the above and bearing in mind that family & friends are rarely the best to be dispassionate about someone's effort & aspirations.

    Where @willkia says:-
    "A friend has messaged me to take some photos for her salon. Of her clients. She specialises in really bright colours and wacky hair styles."

    Are there any implications in regard to Model Release Forms and who is responsible for these....plus he mentions the salon owner has a backdrop & props. Are there any insurance issues to be aware of let alone how he will light the subjects as the salon owner seems to come across as wanting the photography session done in the salon.

    To @willkia Will, if you are relying on these ventures to lead to finally earning a significant part of your income from your photography just bare in mind that in business a reputation is hard earned but easily lost. Therefore, as you mention this is friends & family paying you for your work they are unlikely to be your target customers in future..........so the question to ask yourself is:-
    Would a stranger hire you now or even in the future based on your current output???

    Be honest with yourself.......and concentrate on developing the craft including the post processing. Then accept payment for a quality saleable product.

    PS the secondary question I forgot ~ if a relative of yours showed you such work would you be prepared to pay them???

    PPS @Phil V posted while I was still typing......and he much more pithily addresses something of what I mentioned.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
  8. LeeRatters

    LeeRatters

    Messages:
    889
    Name:
    Lee
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    If people are paying you for your wok, then fair play.....

    You can learn a lot from studying other's photos. Look at angles, focus, lighting, etc You can also do quite a bit with just an on board flashgun & bounce! I'd rather shoot in a salon than a forest if the main 'subject' is hairstyles. All the props, equipment, shooting through stuff, reflections, mirrors, accessories..... The list goes on! You also don't want to be shooting everything wide open ;)

    Your first image is dull with no pop to it. The second could be okay with some autumn coloured PP. The third I looked at the background mess before the actual image.
     
  9. PhilH04

    PhilH04

    Messages:
    690
    Name:
    Phil
    Edit My Images:
    No
    "Too much for me?"
    Is your question, your present stage of development then yes the hair salon shoot is too much... You need to look at your attention to detail and basic posing, then you need to work on your lighting skills and using the light.... (lighting skills also includes available/ambient light).

    Frankly these are simply snaps and (IMHO) not a saleable product.

    As Phil V says you need to take a reality check.
     
    Lindsay56 and Mr Badger like this.
  10. holty

    holty

    Messages:
    4,972
    Edit My Images:
    No
    so your now a professional tog taking money for taking pictures- i nearly p***ed my pants when i read your post and saw your pictures there awful
    you need to practice the basic things like getting pictures in focus
    you say your getting paid for your work you have got some neck on you
    i think you should be giving a refund
    hope your declaring your income from these jobs
     
  11. Dave70D

    Dave70D

    Messages:
    7,444
    Name:
    Hi Ho Silver away !
    Edit My Images:
    No
    I agree with all the above, plus you need to practice a lot until you really do look at your image and think WOW. I take a lot of images of singers using any of my three Primes on my Fuji, out of a hell of a lot of images I have taken I think about 10 are really good, like I said it is PRACTICE PRACTICE AND PRACTICE MORE.
     
  12. simon ess

    simon ess Keeper of The List

    Messages:
    7,199
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Yes, practice, practice and practice.

    Thing is though, after all these years, I still don't know how you practice seeing.

    I think it has something to do with study and self awareness, but I can't pin it down.
     
    Fraser Euan White likes this.
  13. TCR4x4

    TCR4x4 Wishes he had a couple more Inches

    Messages:
    7,901
    Name:
    Tom
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Just because the background is blurred, doesn’t mean it’s a good photo. You still need composition, lighting, Interest.
    Sorry but all those photos you posted would have been deleted off the memory card even before they got on the computer if they were mine and would certainly not accept money off anyone for them.

    You need to stop even considering doing paid work and learn to actually use the camera. To say you can’t take pictures against a wall with your camera is slightly bizarre to me if a phone can do it, then your expensive dslr can do it.
    I don’t like being negative but I have to be honest. The photos you posted arent very good, and whilst there is potential there, you really need to take more care in your focusing, framing and settings. Using f/1.8 for everything doesn’t work, epscially ehen there are multiple people In the frame at different distances.
    Portraits are about eye contact. The eyes must be in focus, as must any other main point on the photo like a baby bump. The eyes also need to be well lit, the first photo you can’t even see the eyes, just black holes. Use reflectors, flash... anything at your disposal.
     
    Flashman likes this.
  14. ecoleman

    ecoleman

    Messages:
    4,668
    Name:
    Elliott
    Edit My Images:
    No
    I don’t think that has anything to do with you, me or anybody else here.
     
  15. Dave70D

    Dave70D

    Messages:
    7,444
    Name:
    Hi Ho Silver away !
    Edit My Images:
    No
  16. holty

    holty

    Messages:
    4,972
    Edit My Images:
    No
    your right its no ones business but his
    what im saying is
    i don't want to encourage anyone to not pay there taxes especially being a inspector for Hmrc
    its amazing how many people think that 60 quid here and there will go un noticed (y)
     
  17. Steelo

    Steelo

    Messages:
    1,555
    Name:
    Martin
    Edit My Images:
    No
    After seeing your other threads as well as this one, yes, it's too much. Tell them to get a decent photographer who knows what they're doing. If you can't take a photo of someone standing against a wall, then you definitely are not up to the job in question.
     
  18. Cagey75

    Cagey75

    Messages:
    9,355
    Name:
    Keith
    Edit My Images:
    No
    You might, but the average non photographer doesn't care so much about it. A nice soft, blurred out backdrop can indeed be nice, but it's rarely a must have

    Watch this, then take note of all of the advice above

     
    juggler likes this.
  19. Cagey75

    Cagey75

    Messages:
    9,355
    Name:
    Keith
    Edit My Images:
    No

    Let the OP worry about that, it's a photography forum, he's looked for advice on that and nothing more
     
    rick448 likes this.
  20. Phil V

    Phil V

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    21,814
    Name:
    Phil
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    No
    I’m not saying you’re lying, but no tax inspector I ever met (and I’ve met a good few) had this level of literacy.
     
  21. Scirocco_09

    Scirocco_09

    Messages:
    751
    Edit My Images:
    No
    I actually don’t think the shots posted are bad for an amateur, but until you learn more about photography you shouldn’t really be touting for business. The salon shoot shouldn’t be difficult for someone with a bit of experience, it makes far more sense to have these done in their studio rather than woodlands
     
    Fraser Euan White likes this.
  22. juggler

    juggler

    Messages:
    4,361
    Name:
    Simon
    Edit My Images:
    No
    I don’t think the OP mentioned getting paid.

    So long as he & his friend are realistic there’s no reason why he shouldn’t give it a go.
     
    Fraser Euan White likes this.
  23. Dave70D

    Dave70D

    Messages:
    7,444
    Name:
    Hi Ho Silver away !
    Edit My Images:
    No

    Hi guys,

    So I have been doing some paid work recently for friends. I have been learning lots and really enjoying it.
     
  24. Cagey75

    Cagey75

    Messages:
    9,355
    Name:
    Keith
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Doesn't matter whether they mentioned it or not, i's not our place to get in on his finances. Posting here doesn't auto-open you up to life judgement as far as I'm aware. Worry about your own taxes lads.
     
  25. rick448

    rick448

    Messages:
    1,091
    Name:
    Rick
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Very true, I'm not sure why our resident tax inspector felt the need to assume that this person would not indeed be paying tax, is perceived tax evasion related to the quality of pictures?

    If this is a forum for giving out advice based on occupation, then please all make sure you have a smoke and CO alarm fitted! :D
     
    Cagey75 likes this.
  26. DemiLion

    DemiLion

    Messages:
    11,472
    Name:
    Mark
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    No

    Sorry but if you are belittling my chosen profession by charging for a skill that you manifestly lack, then yes, that does open you to a certain element of judgement. Although a couple of the posts above are OTT.

    This is classic 'buy a first camera and shoot weddings' syndrome. Photography takes time, knowledge, skill and practice. And that's just to become a fairly accomplished amateur.
     
    Lindsay56 and TheBigYin like this.
  27. AndyG123

    AndyG123

    Messages:
    268
    Name:
    Andy
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    I have to agree here.. But I do commend the Op with some things...
    I've recently got some really great shots of my son which I love and feel I really have a great understanding of photography... Composition is still lacking in my opinion..
    However I can shoot In varying backgrounds and have learnt a lot about lighting...
    Im at a place I'd love to start taking one step Forward however I'm not confident in shooting in all environments...
    Ive had 2 people at work ask me to do some photos for their children outdoors which I've not had the balls to do...

    Partly because I'm not that confident yet so I commend the op's confidence. But the other reason is because me to do the shoot I would see it as a professional shoot... And I wouldn't want to under deliver (although it would be a freebie I wouldn't want to waste their time)
     
  28. rick448

    rick448

    Messages:
    1,091
    Name:
    Rick
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    No
    I'm not sure anyone was belittling your chosen profession, it's an open market surely, and if people are willing to pay this chap, then what is the problem? There is no mention of fees that i can see, so it could be a few quid to cover his expenses (and time to complete his self assessment from I'm sure) This is an odd place, one minute people are being criticised for taking pictures for nothing, now they are criticised for charging when approached. Maybe we need to have a list of approved photographers who are deemed talented and honest enough to take pictures. :)
     
  29. Cagey75

    Cagey75

    Messages:
    9,355
    Name:
    Keith
    Edit My Images:
    No
    I'm sorry but I don't care what you do, or how much you get paid for it. This is a photography forum, people ask for advice, you either give it, or not. When people start getting on to others about taxes it's a high and mighty step too far, plain simple. I don't care if you go rob a bank tomorrow, it's got nothing to do with a gear and photography forum. Also, unless he is actively stealing your customers then it isn't any of your business.
     
  30. DemiLion

    DemiLion

    Messages:
    11,472
    Name:
    Mark
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    No

    That sounds like the perfect option.
     
  31. DemiLion

    DemiLion

    Messages:
    11,472
    Name:
    Mark
    Edit My Images:
    No

    The original post is asking for business advice. The tax point is relevant (although massively over-laboured) because that's a basic of doing business.

    The simple fact is that this chap is trying to charge for jobs that he doesn't have the skill to achieve. He's been given honest answers.

    the most important being: stop charging, concentrate on learning photography and then when you think you are ready, practice a lot more. Then come back and try to start up a business.
     
    TheBigYin and willkia like this.
  32. Fraser Euan White

    Fraser Euan White

    Messages:
    1,095
    Name:
    Fraser White
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Should you be charging for your photographs? That's for you and your friends to decide IMO

    The craft of photography can be learned but you will never know it all, the more you do know the more confident you will be in a given scenario.

    The art of photography - that's a different matter completely; some(few) are brilliant, lots are very good and then the majority of us (me included) hover around the average.
     
    rick448 likes this.
  33. Fraser Euan White

    Fraser Euan White

    Messages:
    1,095
    Name:
    Fraser White
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    Yes
    f*** off Keith! I care if it's my bank and it's my loot he runs off with! :police:
     
    Cagey75 likes this.
  34. Cagey75

    Cagey75

    Messages:
    9,355
    Name:
    Keith
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    No

    Be hilarious if your bank was knocked off tomorrow :LOL:
     
    Fraser Euan White likes this.
  35. Cagey75

    Cagey75

    Messages:
    9,355
    Name:
    Keith
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Then comment on his skills, and how to improve, not his taxes.

    Have we honestly forgotten around here how to answer simple questions? I don't blame newcomers for legging it tbh - they come in looking for advice on one thing and leave scratching their heads worrying about insurance, taxes, fraud, copyright, print sizes, BOKEH! and multiple format wars that nobody outside of sites like this give a fig about
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2018
  36. willkia

    willkia

    Messages:
    117
    Name:
    Will
    Edit My Images:
    Yes

    This exactly!!!!
     
    Fraser Euan White likes this.
  37. soeren

    soeren

    Messages:
    1,127
    Name:
    Soeren
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    very interesting and its actually most surpriing how many doesnt see the differences in different shots.
    Somehow I feel It leads naturally on to this though this one is long and at places a little.....


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoGICG3UmUQ

    Dont be a one trick pony. Try shooting at f/8 and learn to use the background and the lines to build a stronger composition.
    When you shoot for a fee you snoot for a client, not for yourself so its what they want you must deliver. No good to blur the chateau if the couple want to show a picture of them in front of it. or if they want the details of the inside where the party takes place etc.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2018
    willkia likes this.
  38. willkia

    willkia

    Messages:
    117
    Name:
    Will
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    I’ve replied to my friend saying

    Well I’ve never really taken indoor photos like this before and lighting is such a key which I am not that confident with. I don’t mind giving it ago but don’t want to be wasting your time x

    The baby shower wasn’t actually paid, she offered to pay me. But I said no. She was so happy with the photos and so was everyone else.

    I see what you mean about the car park in the background.

    Regarding the picture I posted above and it being out of focus. Do you think that’s because they are not all stood at the same level? Or did I need a higher F Stop?
     
    Fraser Euan White likes this.
  39. willkia

    willkia

    Messages:
    117
    Name:
    Will
    Edit My Images:
    Yes

    She has replied with

    How do you think I learned to color!! "giving it a go" lol You understand your camera?? Iv done a 1-2-1 with mine! Its a Canon! love it! and something i want to get into big time! My light boxs arrive next week! I already have drops! What could possibly go wrong? x


    What shall I reply now lol
     
    Fraser Euan White likes this.
  40. Brazo

    Brazo

    Messages:
    2,575
    Name:
    Mark
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Even some suitably diffused or bounced on board flash would improve the above images. The little girls eyes in the first shot are completely in shadow and the other images lack the pop that some fill light would give. I don’t think #2 is that bad at all, it’s nicely composed and works well, Could benefit from some fill light though.
     

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