Too much for me?

I've done a lot of shoots in barber shops with highly tattooed model with lots of odd hair colours. Things to remember.
Barbers/hairdressers are busy places, by busy I mean lots of people and lots of stuff, frame your shot carefully and make sure you are happy with everything that's in the shot.
Use lights and reflectors, I usually take two lights and at least one flash.
Try and set a scene and then shoot all the models at more or less the same settings then reset and shoot them all again, makes it easier in post.
The only way to learn is to do it, look a the result, be critical and improve.
Good luck
D
 
Cagey75 said:
Then comment on his skills, and how to improve, not his taxes.

Have we honestly forgotten around here how to answer simple questions? I don't blame newcomers for legging it tbh - they come in looking for advice on one thing and leave scratching their heads worrying about insurance, taxes, fraud, copyright, print sizes, BOKEH! and multiple format wars that nobody outside of sites like this give a fig about
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To be fair to Mark, the OP was asking for business advice, and Mark did say in his original post that some of the responses had been OTT.

Back to the OP, I’m sure he’s a nice bloke but he’s asked for a lot of basic advice recently, he really is a long way from having the skills and knowledge required to switch on the ‘for hire’ sign, and some people have already put a fair amount of effort into helping him understand the basics of photography (both in posts and by PM).
 
Phil V said:
To be fair to Mark, the OP was asking for business advice, and Mark did say in his original post that some of the responses had been OTT.

Back to the OP, I’m sure he’s a nice bloke but he’s asked for a lot of basic advice recently, he really is a long way from having the skills and knowledge required to switch on the ‘for hire’ sign, and some people have already put a fair amount of effort into helping him understand the basics of photography (both in posts and by PM).
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I agree with this Phil but I also think the OP is very lucky having friends who will offer him the opportunity to gain skills/experience and he should take those opportunities. I wish i had friends who would do this - all of them run a mile if I ask to photograph them!

Big difference though from photographing friends and asking for 'expenses' to photographing strangers and being paid; like you say there is lots of learning to be done.

I think the OP is doing the right thing; he is discussing the wishes with his friends then explaining he doesn't yet feel confident doing what they ask - the final decision is between them and he is not putting any false hopes up.
 
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Phil V said:
To be fair to Mark, the OP was asking for business advice, and Mark did say in his original post that some of the responses had been OTT.

Back to the OP, I’m sure he’s a nice bloke but he’s asked for a lot of basic advice recently, he really is a long way from having the skills and knowledge required to switch on the ‘for hire’ sign, and some people have already put a fair amount of effort into helping him understand the basics of photography (both in posts and by PM).
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Am I not allowed to ask basic advice?
 
willkia said:
Am I not allowed to ask basic advice?
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You are, very much so, but it *feels* like the same areas have been covered again and again (depth of field, aperture, where to focus etc). There also comes a point where one expected the user to perform basic personal research: photography is a popular and very well documented practice, with thousands of books, videos and articles available, often either free or at very low cost that cover all the basics including the stuff we've talked about and linked to from this forum.

I wonder if you might not find some personal tuition more helpful as a way of learning, as your friend with the salon has had? That way you could ask questions as you go along, and the answers might be more easily translated into increased skills and understanding.
 
willkia said:
She has replied with

How do you think I learned to color!! "giving it a go" lol You understand your camera?? Iv done a 1-2-1 with mine! Its a Canon! love it! and something i want to get into big time! My light boxs arrive next week! I already have drops! What could possibly go wrong? x


What shall I reply now lol
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Hi Will

From what she says she is also getting keenly into photography......hence buying kit to aid her get good salon shots of her willing customers.

So, context is all when photographing unfamiliar subjects. When you are doing social photography of any genre where the person is expecting "a product" whether you are paid (in any form of compensation) or not IMO it is about managing their expectations and you have from what you done that in part. Why do I say in part, if the person has reason to complain about you they will.....and in business as in life in general the cause can be misunderstanding, so as you are 'selling your service' (unpaid or not) make it clear, concise and in writing that she 'signs off' agreeing to the conditions under which you are offering your services.

I rarely take anything people wise but the effort and camera craft I use in wildlife, airshows, landscapes etc I rely on to shoot the very best I can when it comes to people photography!

You have a hill to climb and it can be both fun and arduous.........she sounds like a good contact through which you can learn a new subject........

PS relating to a post slightly further down re the baby shower and which aperture ~ sure, no harm asking basic questions but to be fair you do seem to have asked the same question (s) in regard to aperture choice a few times but nothing over that period shows that you have experimented to see the effect of say the difference between f1.8 & f8.

I would have hoped by now that you could have done so and posted the results illustrating what you have learned and spoken of how you (hopefully) realise what it brings to what you can achieve by using aperture settings well.
 
willkia said:
Regarding the picture I posted above and it being out of focus. Do you think that’s because they are not all stood at the same level? Or did I need a higher F Stop?
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A slightly smaller aperture would help a little, but the real issue is that you haven't identified the centre of attention in the image in order to focus on it.

You appear to have useful people-skills, to get the 3 to pose like that for you (and the children too).
 
willkia said:
Am I not allowed to ask basic advice?
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Yes as an amateur though if youre going to charge people for taking pictures of/for them then no. I would be p***ed if the mechanic working on my car had to refer to an internet fora to ask basic questions about brakesyste disassemply and what if a GP had to ask basic questions on medical subjects
 
willkia said:
Am I not allowed to ask basic advice?
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Of course you are but at the moment that's exactly what you are asking "basic advice" and then you start a thread taking about doing paid work.
There is nothing wrong with asking for advice and using friends to experiment and gain experience but I don't think you should be charging them, certainly not at this point. Go and take some images, if they are happy with them then that's great, if not then you learn from that. Also don't mistake yourself for a great photographer just because your family and friends say you are. My mother thinks I'm the greatest photographer in the world. I know I'm not.

This is the third thread now that in some ways are all related to depth of field so it doesn't look like you are actually taking on board the advice that people are actually giving you here.

You've been advised (by me) to watch Mike Browne's videos - did you do that?
You've been advised to download a DOF app - Did you do that?
You've been advised to photograph some batteries placed at an angle and shoot at different apertures, different focal lengths, different distances from the subject and with the background at different distances to get a better understanding of how things change - Did you do that?

People will only hand out so much advice before we all start getting bored with repeating ourselves over and over.
 
soeren said:
and what if a GP had to ask basic questions on medical subjects
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you say that. I went to the doctor a couple of years back and saw a trainee doctor. Luckily I wasn't dying because it did literally look up my symptoms on the internet :jawdrop:
Hopefully it was some sort of official reference and not just google
 
willkia said:
Am I not allowed to ask basic advice?
Click to expand...
You’re very much welcome to basic advice, and advanced advice, or business advice

But asking for basic advice correlated with you don’t have the required skills or knowledge to be considering selling your services.

An analogy:
You’ve worked out how to make cupcakes (but not really good ones yet).
Some people have told you that your cupcakes are great, and so others are asking you to make them cakes and offering to pay.
Your current answer is ‘I can’t make cakes or bread, I can do you some cupcakes’. Or ‘how hard can it be to bake a cake?’

Learn to bake the cakes, try them out on your friends, but remember to warn them that you might fail completely.

Keep going, keep asking questions, but make sure you’re confident you can deliver before you start to charge anyone any money. As I said in my first post here, risking your reputation will only leave you as the loser.
 
I'd worry about the technical skill of a hairdresser who only learned by trial and error rather than being trained. At least the OP is trying to learn from others. And I'm pleased he hasn't touted for payment.
 
I know, it's confusing because he said that then later said payment was offered and declined. So I'm rather hopefully interpreting that he hasn't been asking for money up front to take photos, but considered the "work" paid even though perhaps no money changed hands
 
Lindsay56 said:
I know, it's confusing because he said that then later said payment was offered and declined. So I'm rather hopefully interpreting that he hasn't been asking for money up front to take photos, but considered the "work" paid even though perhaps no money changed hands
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I am perhaps getting old(er) and more cynical..................when someone says paid I surmise money had changed hands. Yes, there are other ways of getting paid such 'in kind' e.g. bottle of wine, lunch, etc but when saying "doing some paid work....." without 'qualification' the inference is paid in the Queens currency ;) (NB be it folding stuff in the wallet or a BT )

PS Without wanting to come across as pedantic (keep quiet in the back there :D ) when speaking or writing, as on a forum, accuracy is important ~ i.e. paid normally means money changing hands, paid in kind typically with qualification, offer of pay and declining. And no, I have no wish to know details of Will's arrangements but by saying "paid work" he did open himself to a degree of criticism even though this thread is not in the Business sub-fora.

Edit ~ I noticed I had left out one word that should have reinforced part of my phrasing, only re-reading it did I realise my "typo".....now corrected ;)
 
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willkia said:
The baby shower wasn’t actually paid, she offered to pay me. But I said no. She was so happy with the photos and so was everyone else.
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I have been trying to keep from posting to this thread but ... if "she" is one of the people in the photograph then don't use her satisfaction as a judgement in your favour. They are all of the Facebook generation - the ones that think every blurred, out of focus, underexposed, overexposed, poorly composed image posted on-line is "fantastic". Opinions are opinions but at least here you will get an honest appraisal of your talent ... and so far I don't see it at all :(
 
Far too much preciousness in this thread. Look at facebook, millions of likes for p*** poor photos every day. What the customer perceives to be a good photo is not necessarily what the photographer does. I'm not saying that's right, just how it is. And it's going to get even worse as camera phones, and access to other quality equipment, improves further.

OP is good enough to charge for the type of work they're providing to the customer base they're servicing, that's already been proven. If the OP tries to expand that to a more demanding customer they'll either skill up or fail. It's just that simple.
 
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Phil V said:
You’re very much welcome to basic advice, and advanced advice, or business advice

But asking for basic advice correlated with you don’t have the required skills or knowledge to be considering selling your services.

An analogy:
You’ve worked out how to make cupcakes (but not really good ones yet).
Some people have told you that your cupcakes are great, and so others are asking you to make them cakes and offering to pay.
Your current answer is ‘I can’t make cakes or bread, I can do you some cupcakes’. Or ‘how hard can it be to bake a cake?’

Learn to bake the cakes, try them out on your friends, but remember to warn them that you might fail completely.

Keep going, keep asking questions, but make sure you’re confident you can deliver before you start to charge anyone any money. As I said in my first post here, risking your reputation will only leave you as the loser.
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^^This.

And the main thing wrong with posted photos is the light, as it so often is. Unfortunately, knowledge and skill with lighting, or even the possession of some basic lighting equipment* is often the last thing some people ever think about but IMHO it's what separates the men from the boys.

*Edit: even if it's only a flash gun and a fold-up reflector, plus some learning and a bit of practise, that'll elevate the quality of images way more than a new camera body or an upgraded lens you don't need.
 
willkia said:
Regarding the picture I posted above and it being out of focus. Do you think that’s because they are not all stood at the same level? Or did I need a higher F Stop?
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Forgive me for banging the same drum but...

I'm really not interested in your tax arrangements but the above comment shows how unready to are to start promoting your work for other people to use for their businesses.

Your friend asks if you understand your camera - the brutal answer is 'No, you do not'. Hence my advice to walk away and learn about photography.

The answer to your question is 'Depth of Field'. Look it up, learn about it and then research another topic.
 
holty said:
so your now a professional tog taking money for taking pictures- i nearly p***ed my pants when i read your post and saw your pictures there awful
you need to practice the basic things like getting pictures in focus
you say your getting paid for your work you have got some neck on you
i think you should be giving a refund
hope your declaring your income from these jobs
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The photos are better than your punctuation :p
 
@willkia - you will probably find some of the advice on here (this forum) quite contradictory! Not so long ago I got engaged in a conversation about giving images away for free and was absolutely slated by numerous professional photographers on the forum for this - the insults were much worse in most casses!I This was my first post on the thread:

Fraser Euan White said:
Isn't that quite a selfish attitude though Jeremy?

I take pictures for a hobby and the hobby lets me meet people. I am delighted if someone uses my pictures for free because it gives me satisfaction to have the 'thanks' from someone who I will have a discussion with or to see a picture I have taken being published; I do my hobby for fun and don't wish to get any money for it - why should someone 'moan' because I do this and it gives me enjoyment?
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The replies became very heated from numerous people:

Donnie said:
And you knowingly carry on, showing your ignorance of how you are being used and allowing scroungers to have your work for free.
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swanseamale47 said:
Whats the point of being a beginner in a business your willing to work for free in? How will you make a living if everybody else works for free in it too?
So you get your portfolio, start charging £500 or whatever a day and get no work because the next bloke along does it for free too.
The only winners are the people getting free pics, they trouser more money each week as their overheads have gone down because they no longer pay for pics.
How is this going to help the beginner in the long run?
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DemiLion said:
Just wondering...

Do you make a habit of wandering into your neighbours' sitting rooms and p***ing on their carpets?
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From your thread it would now appear that it is disgusting you are charging friends to take pictures that they want and are more than willing to pay for; some of the people telling you this were the very same people insulting me for giving images away for free!?!?

The general advice about your photography given here is sound and it is always extremely beneficial to learn a lot more than you know. Some advice from the pro's pointing you in the right direction is excellent and you really should take the time to watch the video's they link to or read up on the subjects they suggest. Being good at what you do always involves hard work.

............But, if friends are willing to pay for your results then that will help pay for your time to learn and gain confidence - do what you feel is right.

(Having manners costs absolutely nothing yet from the replies of some you would think they cost a small fortune! )
 
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Fraser Euan White said: ↑
Isn't that quite a selfish attitude though Jeremy?

I take pictures for a hobby and the hobby lets me meet people. I am delighted if someone uses my pictures for free because it gives me satisfaction to have the 'thanks' from someone who I will have a discussion with or to see a picture I have taken being published; I do my hobby for fun and don't wish to get any money for it - why should someone 'moan' because I do this and it gives me enjoyment?


All my images are for Free that I take for the pleasure and when the vocalists are very happy with them then that makes me happy too, so glad you shared that bit.
 
Oh lookie. Fraser has decided to start stirring. What a shocker.

My out look is simple. Strive to be the best photographer that you can. If you can reach a level where your photographs are of sufficient quality to market, then sell them don't give them away.

If your photos aren't of that quality, enjoy your hobby and keep them to yourself and your friends.
 
And you might want to put my quote into context.

You wandered into the Pro & Business forum and started to shout about giving images away for free.

So yep, that's walking into someone else's house and p**sing on their carpet.
 
DemiLion said:
Oh lookie. Fraser has decided to start stirring. What a shocker.

My out look is simple. Strive to be the best photographer that you can. If you can reach a level where your photographs are of sufficient quality to market, then sell them don't give them away.

If your photos aren't of that quality, enjoy your hobby and keep them to yourself and your friends.
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And who decides what that quality is?
 
Bearair said:
And who decides what that quality is?
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Good question. The artistic bias is always going to make that a debatable question.

However it's usually easier to recognise an image that is of genuinely poor technical quality than one that is of poor artistic quality; ie I've never really understood the artistic merit of a certain photograph of the Rhine.
 
DemiLion said:
Good question. The artistic bias is always going to make that a debatable question.

However it's usually easier to recognise an image that is of genuinely poor technical quality than one that is of poor artistic quality; ie I've never really understood the artistic merit of a certain photograph of the Rhine.
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The answer from a business/free market point of view is "the customer", and it appears that the OP has reached that quality! (scary as that is to those of us who are "into" photography)
 
Bearair said:
The answer from a business/free market point of view is "the customer", and it appears that the OP has reached that quality! (scary as that is to those of us who are "into" photography)
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But from a business perspective those markets can be cruel...

What starts out as a few likes on Facebook turns into a ‘Facebook business page’ turns into a recommendation to do a job for a client with realistic expectations which turns into a ruined reputation!

At the end of the day, there’ll be others to replace that ‘business’ so the ‘market’ doesnt suffer, but that disgruntled customer and that failed photographer have paid a high price for that.

My advice to Will isn’t ‘don’t go into business’ it’s ‘learn your craft and avoid getting slagged off all over the media’
 
Phil V said:
But from a business perspective those markets can be cruel...

What starts out as a few likes on Facebook turns into a ‘Facebook business page’ turns into a recommendation to do a job for a client with realistic expectations which turns into a ruined reputation!

At the end of the day, there’ll be others to replace that ‘business’ so the ‘market’ doesnt suffer, but that disgruntled customer and that failed photographer have paid a high price for that.

My advice to Will isn’t ‘don’t go into business’ it’s ‘learn your craft and avoid getting slagged off all over the media’
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Really good advice from Phil TBH. You have to be really careful to 'manage expectations' Will at the start and probably at all times. Learn the basic principles before 'stepping out of your comfort zone' - you will really enjoy it :)
 
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