Tricky lighting situations (school play), advice

Iris

Iris

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Jen
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Hi all, hope this is in the right spot :)

I took some pics at my son's school play this week, the lighting wasn't great - dark room with the blinds closed and coloured spotlights directed on the stage (added to a clingy 3 year old who wouldn't let me move very far). I have a Canon 500D and used my 100mm lens - TV mode set to 1/100, IS on, ISO 3200, no flash, what can I do to improve on this shot for the next time? Do you think I should use flash? I didn't try my speedlite (just the 270ex) but fill in flash over-powered the coloured light and although I could see better, it detracted away from the scene in my opinion...

Without Flash (and a hefty crop)

9f6ed5a3.jpg


With on camera flash

feb21d85.jpg


I know neither are great shots but would really appreciate as much feedback and advice as possible :)
 
I'm afraid for situations like this you need fast long glass. I shot my sons school play in the same sort of lighting with a 70-200 2.8 at high ISO and wide open, the results were ok. A lot of schools don't let you fire a flash during their shows.

M.
 
I assume the lens is the 100/2.8L IS Macro, and from the EXIF I see that you were already wide open at f/2.8. With your ISO already at 3200 and shutter speed down to 1/100 you really don't have a place to go except to use flash or get faster glass or a better body.

You could try a slower shutter speed, and your IS might hold off evidence of camera shake, but then you will have a challenge with subject blur. You could fire off multiple shot bursts and hope some of them turn out sharp enough but basically you want more light on the scene or equipment that will gather more light. It looks like without flash you are about 2 stops off the pace, so you need either....

- your f/2.8 lens and a camera that can shoot well at 12800 ISO;
- an f/2 lens and a camera that will shoot at 6400 ISO;
- an f/1.4 lens.

Obviously there are things like DOF to consider, so going for an ultra fast aperture may not be the answer. The cheapest solution you have is to use your flash.

What you could try, and I don't know how well this would work, is to gel your flash to tungsten colour temperature with a CTO gel. Then you shoot with white balance set to tungsten - I'm assuming the spot lights are driven by tungsten bulbs. That way you will go some way towards preserving the colour intent of the stage lighting, rather than bathing the subjects in the bright "blue" light of the flash. Maybe someone else can comment on how sound an idea that is.

The final option is to get the tightwads at the school to put in a decent lighting system. :) I've shot great exposures in a small provincial theatre with my 50D and 85/1.8 at 1/125, f/2.0, 400 ISO without the need for flash.....

20091009_220450_4704_LR.jpg


The lighting at the school must be abysmal. You're looking at light levels around 4 stops dimmer than my stage above.
 
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I don't feel so bad now if i was never gonna get a great shot with my kit and the lighting. It was 2 large spot lamps which changed colour and that was it.

I was using the 2.8L, next time I'll try getting someone to sit with little miss and get better vantage points and try my flash. If I find that shooting in poor light is something I want to do more of then I can look at upgrading my kit.
 
Please ask before you you start firing flash during a performance it normally ends up with the tog being asked to leave. What is a better idea is to suggest taking some pics at a dress rehersal then you get total free access with no audience and you can make the kids feel its a big deal into the bargin and get full cast shots etc.
 
NEVER use flash when shooting any king of stage performance. It will destroy any atmosphere created by the stage lighting - it will put the performers off - it will annoy the rest of the audience!
 
The tips about non use of flash might be correct in terms of your conduct at the event (unless you can get permission to use it at the dress rehearsal), but you still want to find a couple of extra stops of light if you can. Here's a rough edit with a +2 stops exposure adjustment in Lightroom, just to illustrate the defecit, and a few crude tweaks to tidy up the colour casts on the assumption that both those tops should be white and not two-tone green and magenta at once.....

20110722_161445_000.jpg



Another point - if you are forced to underexpose, requiring a big push of the files in post, then try to fill the frame as much as you can and keep cropping to the minimum. I don't know where you were for these shots, but if not in the front row it seems to me that you should be reserving a spot there. :-)
 
I wouldn't get over stressed Iris. In order to make a good image you need a decent light source. Unfortunately you were on a hiding to nothing with the situation you were in.

I've spent many an hour fretting over why i have been unable to make a good shot. Sometimes you just have to say that the available light was not sufficient enough for the kit you may have - assuming you didn't have 3 truck loads of Hollywood lighting gear with you that is :)

Alan
 
awp said:
NEVER use flash when shooting any king of stage performance. It will destroy any atmosphere created by the stage lighting - it will put the performers off - it will annoy the rest of the audience!
Click to expand...

I agree!
 
awp said:
NEVER use flash when shooting any king of stage performance. It will destroy any atmosphere created by the stage lighting - it will put the performers off - it will annoy the rest of the audience!
Click to expand...

Looking at the seemingly random and arbitrary colour of the light on the two subjects I suspect that destroying (or reducing) the atmosphere created by the stage lighting would be a good thing.

As for annoying everyone else, what if they keep firing their little point and shoots at the stage throughout the performance? What if Jen only fires off a dozen carefully timed shots throughout the performance rather than blatting out shots every ten seconds? It's a school play, not a televised Shakespearian performance with the queen in attendance. Fair enough to show some respect, but if nobody objects, what is the problem? Why not find out first rather than assume the worst in the first place? Shooting the dress rehearsal rather than the main event seems a good compromise to me. Of course ask first, but if permission is granted what's the problem? If it does end up being a problem then lesson learned and stop.
 
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I have done a few small school type shows and the lighting has always been bad, once half the rig didn't work and another time the older kids had been doing trampolining during the day and moved half the lights and the school had sold the scaffolding tower so they couldn't adjust them. It seems that small productions often just use what they have or are given, people go from blown to barely visible.
 
Agree with Tim about the use of flash. In situations like that, ie school play with dire lighting, it's often either flash or nothing.

I shot some pictures at a junior school performance of Grease last week and flash certainly didn't put anyone off, and didn't seem to annoy anybody. Just the opposite actually - I got several request for pictures afterwards (because I had "a good camera" LOL) and some of them will probably be on the school website shortly.

It was a large hall, about 250 people, with a 35ft high white-ish ceiling. I bounced a 580EX at full power, and to my astonishment got decent exposure at f/4 ISO1600 (Canon 5D2). The quality of the light was as you'd expect, ie nothing like you'd want for a stage show, but no worse than the feeble red and orange spots being projected from the back. The parents couldn't give a stuff about that - all they wanted was a clear and colourful shot of their kids on stage. This was not great art :)

Unfortunately, I wouldn't have had the same success with the OP's camera and flash. A 500D would be pretty noisy at ISO1600 and a 270EX flash is about 1.5 stops down on my 580EX, but workable in a smaller/lower hall.
 
I have 12 more years of performances in that school hall so by the time my youngest leaves I might have it cracked (or saved up enough to upgrade my kit). It's not the biggest space so my 270EX might do for next time, I didn't use it because I wasn't sure if I should but tbh, as Tim pointed out, there were about a dozen flash's going off from compact camera's.

Thanks again for all the responses, I do feel a bit reassured that there's not a huge amount I could have done with my kit, it's definitely something I will remember when I am researching new kit and upgrades
 
If the school simply took the gels off the lights it would probably help matters on a couple of counts - brighter light and less silly colours.

The cheapest option, rather than buying more camera gear, is probably to buy the school some extra lighting. :)
 
1D Mk4 with a 200mm f1.8L.

You know it makes sense and will satisfy those 'shiny' urges until long after your wife has let you back in the house.
 
I was actually thinking 1D4 plus 200/2L but perhaps your idea is the better one. :)

I still think new lighting would be cheaper. Much cheaper. :D
 
I don't even think the free delivery will swing it for me the 1D :lol:

and I am the wife mrthingyx ;)
 
Until you try, its hard to be able to judge just how much light is actually too little light to get a reasonable shutter speed without flash.
 
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