UK Government theft.

Well, Im 35 now, I certainly won't be humping around 250kg oil drums when I'm in my 70's like I do now so not quite sure what's gonna happen there.
Theres gonna be a hell of a lot of welcomers at the entrance to B&Q in a few years.
 
It's not just the state pension that is unfunded, quite a few Government employee pension schemes are unfunded too, with today's employees paying their pension contributions in and seeing them paid straight out to retirees.

Teachers & Lecturers, Emergency services & many others are unfunded.

Local Government employees (& their employers) do pay into a pension fund but the average local government pension is quite low, not much more than £4k p.a. reflecting the low average wages paid to Local Government workers.
 
Current average life expectancy for a man is 79, so not far off your “retire at 65 live 5, maybe 10 years”.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...ns/nationallifetablesunitedkingdom/2015to2017
Actually I think you are wrong though it’s a tricky area. Average life expectancy doesn’t tell you what it will be at 65, basically because all those younger ones have popped their clogs. For example here https://data.oecd.org/healthstat/life-expectancy-at-65.htm shows a UK man’s expectancy at age 65 is 21 years, so die at 86. :).
 
19 more years walking the landings :( some how don't think so
 
Average life expectancy has plateaued after increasing over the last 50+ years. However those who are living longer are increasingly dependent on the NHS & Social Services as they are living with multiple sometimes serious illnesses for longer. I feel sorry for those workers who have hard, physically demanding jobs today, how will they cope in their later years?

My father worked in heavy engineering until he retired at 65 worn out, at 63 when his employer was seeking volunteers for redundancy he volunteered but was told no as it would cost them too much in redundancy payments. Letting him take redundancy would have allowed a much younger man to remain in work.....
 
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The UK State Pension is the worst in the developed world, according to OECD data. It pays out just 29% of average earnings, compared to 100.6% in the Netherlands, 94% in Portugal and 93.2% in Italy.

What do other countries do differently so they can afford to treat their pensioners with respect rather than shafting them up the arse?

Use some of the massive grant we give to the EU every year to pay their own pensioners whilst ours suffer!

I retired at 35 and never considered the state pension as I don't think I will ever see it anyway :)
 
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Use some of the massive grant we give to the EU every year to pay their own pensioners whilst ours suffer!

I retired at 35 and never considered the state pension as I don't think I will ever see it anyway :)
How many different ways has spending the EU contribution been promised? You’ll never see it anyway as it will disappear up HMGs fundament.
 
The UK State Pension is the worst in the developed world, according to OECD data. It pays out just 29% of average earnings, compared to 100.6% in the Netherlands, 94% in Portugal and 93.2% in Italy.

What do other countries do differently so they can afford to treat their pensioners with respect rather than shafting them up the arse?
See my post #24, it's even worse as we OAP's could/will be hit for income tax if we get enough to live on.
 
See my post #24, it's even worse as we OAP's could/will be hit for income tax if we get enough to live on.
Re: post #24

Exactly Matt @MatBin .....................pensions are 'deemed' income and Income is taxable based on the, as you outlined, income amount above the "Personal Allowance".

I wonder if there is any data that expresses how much money those 65 and older spend in the UK economy compared to the under 65's. Why do a wonder enough to ask.................well if they spend proportionately more then by extrapolation the more money OAP's have will mean more taxes raised by their spending habits.

Now, if that makes sense (more sense, as BJ proposes, than raising the Higher Rate threshold = more tax income for HMRC because they will spend more.....???) why not make the State Pension amount outside the personal allowance rather than included. I can wish can't I ;) :LOL:
 
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Plus nationalised services like in France add to their spending power. EDF are state owned.
Well, yes, not to mention the nationalised French and German railways which now own large chunks of our "privitised" UK railways.
 
If we aren't actually paying into the pension, how come a proportion of your payments can be transferred to your
works pension so you get less of the state pension when you retire ?
 
If we aren't actually paying into the pension, how come a proportion of your payments can be transferred to your
works pension so you get less of the state pension when you retire ?

Because they just then pay out less post retirement. There's still no pot.

I don't think you can do it anymore though anyway.
 
What do other countries do differently so they can afford to treat their pensioners with respect rather than shafting them up the arse?
The countries that pay higher pensions do so by having higher taxes and (by sheer coincidence I'm sure) very low Gini Coefficients.

A better question would be: how did the British (having once been a world leader in fairness and social responsibility) throw it all away?

I don't doubt it was due to the actions of the trade unions and the Conservative Party. The Boulting Brothers film I'm All Right Jack should be required viewing for all young people because it sums up the insanities of trade unionism from the mid 1950s until the breaking of the Miners' Strike in 1985. That plus the Falklands War placed Margaret Thatcher in a position not far from "sainthood" in the minds of many. This allowed her to push through her extreme right wing policies from which we still suffer today.

We are the sixth largest economy in the world yet have only the 21st biggest population. At one time we shared our wealth fairly: now we operate a system that tends more and more to "everyone for themselves and let the devil take the hindmost". That's why people are looking at an ever receding pension and other services crumbling around them.
 
Because they just then pay out less post retirement. There's still no pot.

I don't think you can do it anymore though anyway.

You can, and it seems from what I have heard you have to opt out
I didn't know till I retired last year and found my state pension was reduced because
I had been paying my govt pension amount into my firms pension scheme, it did make
a better deal for me
 
You can, and it seems from what I have heard you have to opt out
I didn't know till I retired last year and found my state pension was reduced because
I had been paying my govt pension amount into my firms pension scheme, it did make
a better deal for me

Ah I couldn't remember, been a while since I worked in pensions now.

But then you get who don't understand it and complain about getting a reduced pension because they were opted out, but not realising they get more from their work pension because of it and are actually better off.
 
[QUOTE="KitsuneAndy, post: 8503906, member: 63079"

But then you get who don't understand it and complain about getting a reduced pension because they were opted out, but not realising they get more from their work pension because of it and are actually better off.[/QUOTE]

I did query because I didn't remember opting out, but it worked out ok so who's complaining
 
I was pleasantly surprised when I turned 65 & received an increase to my company pension (which I took at 50) as well as my state pension because of opting out.
 
Well, Im 35 now, I certainly won't be humping around 250kg oil drums when I'm in my 70's like I do now so not quite sure what's gonna happen there.
Theres gonna be a hell of a lot of welcomers at the entrance to B&Q in a few years.

Stay healthy, start a business you could do after "retirement" and hope for the best, but not rely on that pension. If it happens, well that's a nice a bonus.
Private ones are very much not what it used to be, and they can go "bankrupt" at any time. And why wouldn't they? Someone out needs that big fancy retirement payout, and you don't.
 
How is it that anyone can pay into a system (under obligation) only to be told they will get nothing back for it ok?
It really is the work of the devil.
It really is how every ‘insurance’ system works.
Insurance is s risk pool, why Is this a surprise to anyone.

And how is anyone sucked into this ‘announcement’ from IDS? :thinking:

They need to raise the pension age to 70; so how can they make that palatable? Just leak that they’re considering 75 and all of a sudden no ones talking about the actual rise to 70.
 
It really is how every ‘insurance’ system works.
Insurance is s risk pool, why Is this a surprise to anyone.

Insurance is voluntary, you don't have to pay for it if you don't want it
 
The fact national insurance isn't voluntary kinda undermines that point doesn't it?

Not really it enforces it, yes I know it includes other things but you still have no option but to pay it,
which I had no objection to
 
Insurance is voluntary, you don't have to pay for it if you don't want it
But it’s the same principle which was the point.

Your choice in not paying into retirement insurance is to have no income post retirement.
 
[QUOTE="KitsuneAndy, post: 8503906, member: 63079"

But then you get who don't understand it and complain about getting a reduced pension because they were opted out, but not realising they get more from their work pension because of it and are actually better off.

I did query because I didn't remember opting out, but it worked out ok so who's complaining[/QUOTE]
The scheme closed years ago (can’t be arsed to research exact date) but it’ll still be affecting people for a few years yet. So I’ll get my full NSP at 67but if I was 5 ish years older I’d have to add extra conts or accept the lower amount.
 
I have always thought the state pension is a bonus item rather than a done deal.
as a company director I have been paying heavily into a private pension for many years with my aim at buggering off at 55.
Also worth noting that very low earners generally pay very little or no NI so essentially don't contribute to the state pension but they still get a full value state pension.
 
The state pension will never finish, we will move to something along the lines of means-tested benefits on retirement, so any preparation you have had the sense ;) to make will reduce these benefits.
What government would ever say you have never worked or paid in so you will get nothing , i remember Sir Humphry saying on yes prime minister there is one pot of money and the government decide what to spend it on, ok he was talking about unemployment.
 
The state pension will never finish, we will move to something along the lines of means-tested benefits on retirement, so any preparation you have had the sense ;) to make will reduce these benefits.

It's a bit like that now, basic state pension is not a living amount and those that haven't saved/made other provisions for themselves get it topped up with other benefits
Those that have get nothing and taxed on our extra pension that we paid into most of our working lives
and still get accused of draining the countries resources
 
It's a bit like that now, basic state pension is not a living amount and those that haven't saved/made other provisions for themselves get it topped up with other benefits
Those that have get nothing and taxed on our extra pension that we paid into most of our working lives
and still get accused of draining the countries resources

We get tax relief when we pay it into our pensions though, I see no reason why those of us lucky enough to have bigger pensions waiting for us should also get tax relief on our income post retirement.
 
Bin off the state pension IMO. People should be planning their own retirement.

Not had a job? - I am a big fan of giving people tokens rather than money.
 
I am a big fan of giving people tokens rather than money.
{WARNING: Possible Rant}
I'm sorry for those who want to "punish" the poor and therefor the disadvantaged. When you look around the world it's obvious that the best societies to live in are those which practice egalitarianism and not seperatism. {End Rant}

My opinion is that raising the pension age is just another mistake on the part of politicians scrambling for votes in a society increasingly divided by the actions of those same politicians.
 
I retired at just under 55, will be 61 this year and no state pension until i'm 66
Always treated the state pension as a nice bonus, never banked on it and glad I didn't.
How does that work, I'm turned 63 and my state pension kicks in when I'm 67 :(

I stand corrected just looked it up and mine kicks in on May 4th 2022
 
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We get tax relief when we pay it into our pensions though, I see no reason why those of us lucky enough to have bigger pensions waiting for us should also get tax relief on our income post retirement.

I agree with you, but there are some who seem to think that it's a crime to have worked hard to make your retirement comfortable and everything should be given to young out of work in some cases layabouts.
If this idea goes ahead there will be even less jobs for the younger generation, but I can't really see any government Party
alienating the population in such a way
 
A frightening thought; with an ageing population it may be that people will have to work longer anyway for society to continue to function as the UK birthrate is falling so there will be fewer young people joining the job market.

Employers will have to be tackled about the rampant ageism that prevails first though.
 
{WARNING: Possible Rant}
I'm sorry for those who want to "punish" the poor and therefor the disadvantaged. When you look around the world it's obvious that the best societies to live in are those which practice egalitarianism and not seperatism. {End Rant}

My opinion is that raising the pension age is just another mistake on the part of politicians scrambling for votes in a society increasingly divided by the actions of those same politicians.

I don't see how it is 'punishing the poor'?

The Country can not afford to keep paying pensions as people live longer; it has got to stop. If you are working you should be investing for retirement - if you are not working/poor you are given tokens to maintain a reasonable lifestyle without spending it on alcohol/fags/drugs/lottery.

Don't expect the same privileges whilst not working as you get when you are IMO.

Lets move away from our Robin Hood society where we take from those that can be arsed and give to those that can't.

IMO no one, no matter what age should be given money.
 
Money IS a token, introducing another token on a large scale would just create a parallel economy. What's to stop me trading my tokens for drugs?

The happiest countries in the world are those with the highest rates of taxation - e.g. Denmark. I think there would be many unintended consequences of a "token" system which would affect ALL our lives, working or not and in general make everyone's life more miserable (more crime, corruption, black market etc.) .
 
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