Using workshop created images in camera club competitions

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#41
I'd say it is all about 'acquiring the image' for some people for sure. We've had a couple of high respected and well-know photographers/speakers/judges on the UK amateur club system that even knew specific shots they wanted because they had seen similar shots from our workshops before and they had scored highly.
Sounds great, when can I book! ;)
 
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#42
Going back 25 years , We had a similar situation with a colour print competition

The judge was raving about a photo of coloured pencils on top of a tin of paint , It was awarded top mark of the night

I was sure I had seen it before ?

Racked my brain and eventually found the photo in a Kodak book I had , Took the book to the next night and showd the chairman
< Who brused me away saying " No No No , its a recreation of the photo

Surprise , No not at all as the entrant was the chairmans friend

DOH !
 
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#43
Thanks Dave. I presume that you are alluding to hating workshop images?
Obviously I can't hate a cracking image, but if its a workshop then the person running that workshop has usually set everything up, so its their image not the image of the person attending

I see this often in Wedding websites too, where I can actually recognise the various models and venues where they were taken as they are noted for workshops. What you then see is several cracking photos among a load of much poorer ones - that's cheating the paying customer in my eyes

Using someone else's setup image as your own in a CC comp is just wrong; taking away the techniques you've learnt and doing it yourself later is fine

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#45
Obviously I can't hate a cracking image, but if its a workshop then the person running that workshop has usually set everything up, so its their image not the image of the person attending

I see this often in Wedding websites too, where I can actually recognise the various models and venues where they were taken as they are noted for workshops. What you then see is several cracking photos among a load of much poorer ones - that's cheating the paying customer in my eyes

Using someone else's setup image as your own in a CC comp is just wrong; taking away the techniques you've learnt and doing it yourself later is fine

Dave
Absolutely agree.
 
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#46
If you enter a camera club comp your going to get judged by other camera club members.

When your done with camera club try your hand at Photography ;)
I know there's a 'wink' there, but I can't see where the joke is, soz :(

Clubs can be a superb way for people to learn photography, although I agree comps aren't for everyone, but a comp winner is rarely not a very good image

Dave
 
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#47
It might be interesting to design a competition where the rules effectively set a level playing field - you could specify a local location, subject or event that is unlikely to be covered by a third party workshop, and see what the members come up with...
 
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#48
It might be interesting to design a competition where the rules effectively set a level playing field - you could specify a local location, subject or event that is unlikely to be covered by a third party workshop, and see what the members come up with...
Some clubs have Theme competitions which effectively do just that. A subject is nominated and people take pictures using their interpretation of the subject.
 
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#49
I don’t think you can ever have a level playing field in a photography competition. There will always be variations of one sort or another - for example between those that have time and money to get a great shot and those who who are hard pushed both finically and time wise.
Probably the best way of making progress in a photography competition where the rules allow an uneven playing field is to side step the problem altogether and just concentrate on doing something totally different from the norm & which can demonstrate your true creative talent.
 

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#50
A recurring theme here is “people enter comps for feedback”. Why not just have feedback sessions and do away with the judging and winning element? People could be invited to say a few words about the motivation behind their photo and the techniques used etc. that might put off the “pay and display” brigade…
 
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#51
I don’t think you can ever have a level playing field in a photography competition. There will always be variations of one sort or another - for example between those that have time and money to get a great shot and those who who are hard pushed both finically and time wise.
Probably the best way of making progress in a photography competition where the rules allow an uneven playing field is to side step the problem altogether and just concentrate on doing something totally different from the norm & which can demonstrate your true creative talent.
You're right that there's almost never a level field, the closest I've come to is when a comp is based on a club outing - so they all go to the same place at the same time and shoot for the same number of hours; the biggest difference then is shooting creativity and PP, and I've known of one comp where they all had to deliver SOOC jpegs - and that's about as close to level as you can get I'd say :)

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#52
It might be interesting to design a competition where the rules effectively set a level playing field - you could specify a local location, subject or event that is unlikely to be covered by a third party workshop, and see what the members come up with...
Our club comps frequently specify a "Set Subject" but again, this comes down to an individual interpretation of the subject so unless you make the subject "my local high street" you are still likely to attract a wide variety of entries.
Returning to the original complaint, what is the difference between a photo taken at an organised workshop and, for example, a landscape taken in some exotic location? In both instances the photographer may have spent a significant amount of money in order to capture the image. Does that mean we exclude any wildlife photos taken on a safari holiday in Africa? Or, come to that, any non-British wildlife or landscape?
For my part, I have a medical condition which says I should avoid travel to countries where malaria is prevalent, so that rules out Africa.
It would be a lot easier, and much cheaper, for me to attend a workshop in the UK and capture some images of captive animals, birds or insects that way.
 
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#53
A recurring theme here is “people enter comps for feedback”. Why not just have feedback sessions and do away with the judging and winning element? People could be invited to say a few words about the motivation behind their photo and the techniques used etc. that might put off the “pay and display” brigade…
We started a club to do exactly that !!! No comps at all :)

After a very few weeks no-one brought any images for the comments/reviews !!! :(

We felt this was simply that people tended to bring their best image as they saw it, so were hoping for pats on t'back, but when commented on against far better ones, or by unkind folk, they just gave up the idea :(

There's no simple solution

Dave
 
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#54
Our club comps frequently specify a "Set Subject" but again, this comes down to an individual interpretation of the subject so unless you make the subject "my local high street" you are still likely to attract a wide variety of entries.
Returning to the original complaint, what is the difference between a photo taken at an organised workshop and, for example, a landscape taken in some exotic location? In both instances the photographer may have spent a significant amount of money in order to capture the image. Does that mean we exclude any wildlife photos taken on a safari holiday in Africa? Or, come to that, any non-British wildlife or landscape?
For my part, I have a medical condition which says I should avoid travel to countries where malaria is prevalent, so that rules out Africa.
It would be a lot easier, and much cheaper, for me to attend a workshop in the UK and capture some images of captive animals, birds or insects that way.
I opened the discussion on this subject.

To answer your point. IMHO the difference is the level of "Instruction" received. If you go to a far off place because you can afford it then so be it. You take your camera and gear, set out with the intention to take some photos and use your own judgement on how to set and use the camera etc.

If you go on a paid workshop there will invariably be a question as to how much involvement the student actually had in taking the photo. See previous posts by some that run workshops. The students vary inasmuch as some take entirely their own stuff and others look to basically be told exactly what to do to get "that" picture.

It's impossible to police so again IMHO it then comes down to a moral question. Can you then put your hand on your heart and say that it's entirely our own work?
 
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#55
We started a club to do exactly that !!! No comps at all :)

After a very few weeks no-one brought any images for the comments/reviews !!! :(

We felt this was simply that people tended to bring their best image as they saw it, so were hoping for pats on t'back, but when commented on against far better ones, or by unkind folk, they just gave up the idea :(

There's no simple solution

Dave
Our club effectively does both. Competitions are run throughout the season and some take part, some don't.

Also there is an evening once a month where members meet to review and critique each others images with a view to improving.
 
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#56
A recurring theme here is “people enter comps for feedback”. Why not just have feedback sessions and do away with the judging and winning element? People could be invited to say a few words about the motivation behind their photo and the techniques used etc. that might put off the “pay and display” brigade…
Excellent
 

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#57
We started a club to do exactly that !!! No comps at all :)

After a very few weeks no-one brought any images for the comments/reviews !!! :(

We felt this was simply that people tended to bring their best image as they saw it, so were hoping for pats on t'back, but when commented on against far better ones, or by unkind folk, they just gave up the idea :(

There's no simple solution

Dave
Fair enough, I guess you need people to be pretty diplomatic and in the right frame of mind, I also guess that a few times per year is probably enough for most people
 
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#58
I'm a member of a camera club in the North west. We have externally judged comps every two months. These are open to any subject. The club does state that the image must be all your own work.

All types of photos are entered. From photos taken at club model nights. To folk whom pay to go and take photos of Owls and the like. Mice on wheat.


Some members club together to hire a model and a studio.


We have a few that are very clever at composites they generally take self portraits and the different components that make up the finished image. Some are good at landscape.


I must say I had never given it a thought that it was unfair. I do get what you mean though.


We do have critique / image improvement nights that said I'm not keen on them.


Running a camera club is no easy task.


Gaz
 
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#59
I opened the discussion on this subject.

To answer your point. IMHO the difference is the level of "Instruction" received. If you go to a far off place because you can afford it then so be it. You take your camera and gear, set out with the intention to take some photos and use your own judgement on how to set and use the camera etc.

If you go on a paid workshop there will invariably be a question as to how much involvement the student actually had in taking the photo. See previous posts by some that run workshops. The students vary inasmuch as some take entirely their own stuff and others look to basically be told exactly what to do to get "that" picture.

It's impossible to police so again IMHO it then comes down to a moral question. Can you then put your hand on your heart and say that it's entirely our own work?
A lot of Photographic Holidays are hosted by professional photographers who are supposed to know the local environment and also provide assistance and/or instruction on techniques and processing. I'm pretty sure that most people would say "I took it with my camera and it's on my memory card - it is therefore my photo."

Club members know that judges will often say "This is purely my opinion and someone else will have a different opinion." So there is no definitive means of judging an image, apart from a few basic guidelines, it comes down to the judges opinion.
The unfortunate thing is that, having entered comps for a couple of years, I found myself thinking about images that judges would like and not images that I like.
I no longer think this way, and believe the first person you need to please is yourself. If you can please someone else, then it's a bonus.
At our club all comps are judged by an independent judge from outside the club and entries are all anonymous. To avoid people compiling a list of judges preferences ("doesn't like animals", "prefers black and white" etc) the judges name is only announced on the evening of the competition.
Personally, I believe that entering competitons has improved my photography and If someone enters a "workshop" photo, then it's up to the judge to mark it accordingly, since they know how these contrived images are created.
I would have thought that you do not get many complete beginners on these studio workshops, since a basic level of competence is required.
Who cares how someone created an image anyway. It's up to you to produce the best work you can if you are going to enter it into a competition.
 
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#60
A lot of Photographic Holidays are hosted by professional photographers who are supposed to know the local environment and also provide assistance and/or instruction on techniques and processing. I'm pretty sure that most people would say "I took it with my camera and it's on my memory card - it is therefore my photo."

Club members know that judges will often say "This is purely my opinion and someone else will have a different opinion." So there is no definitive means of judging an image, apart from a few basic guidelines, it comes down to the judges opinion.
The unfortunate thing is that, having entered comps for a couple of years, I found myself thinking about images that judges would like and not images that I like.
I no longer think this way, and believe the first person you need to please is yourself. If you can please someone else, then it's a bonus.
At our club all comps are judged by an independent judge from outside the club and entries are all anonymous. To avoid people compiling a list of judges preferences ("doesn't like animals", "prefers black and white" etc) the judges name is only announced on the evening of the competition.
Personally, I believe that entering competitons has improved my photography and If someone enters a "workshop" photo, then it's up to the judge to mark it accordingly, since they know how these contrived images are created.
I would have thought that you do not get many complete beginners on these studio workshops, since a basic level of competence is required.
Who cares how someone created an image anyway. It's up to you to produce the best work you can if you are going to enter it into a competition.
Good point about announcing the judges name on the night...

I cannot disagree with much of this post except the point about "Who cares how someone created an image anyway". Yes it is up to the individual to attempt to take a picture that surpasses the "workshop" created one BUT I liken it to someone competing in a marathon but being driven around the route and just jumping out and running the last mile...
 
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#61
I liken it to someone competing in a marathon but being driven around the route and just jumping out and running the last mile...
Talking of marathon running, this quote about Mo Farrah is interesting when considering a 'level playing field'.
He certainly runs the whole marathon but does he do it 'all on it's own'?
Do all other competitors get the same 'workshop' facilities or a pair of $1m running shoes?
Or does he do all of this to improve his ability?

In 2011 Farah uprooted his family from their London home to move to Portland in Oregon to work with his coach Alberto Salazar at the Nike Oregon Project.

There he now trains for up to eight hours a day, has a specialised diet and access to some of the best equipment available, including an innovative underwater treadmill that allows him to run for longer without risk of injury.

He also does high altitude training to improve the way his body uses oxygen.

Farah, who failed to qualify for the 5,000 metres at the Beijing Olympics, has admitted that before he went to work with Salazar his technique was all over the place.

Christian Poole, who used to work with Farah when he competed at St Mary’s University College in Twickenham where he lectures in sport rehabilitation and also runs the Running Lab, said: “He has been doing a lot of strength work, so that will make a huge difference in his ability to run and with a few technique changes that has helped him quite a lot.”

Farah is also to be given a pair of million dollar running shoes, which are being developed by Nike, in the hope that they can help him break the marathon world record in London next year.
 
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#62
I politely disagree. I do think that in some cases it is "buying" a picture. Not in your workshops maybe and good for you.
Cannot agree with this; you then must step back to the guy with the £10k lens & £6k body. Has he not "bought" his images? There is no doubt that buying better gear helps you get better images, and better gear raises the consistency of you work unless you're an absolute beginner or inept.

Like I said, I went to a workshop and used longer/wider lenses than most, and took up different a POV from everybody else. I still had to run those images through Lightroom etc.

For most of us, things like workshops allow us to put what we have learned into practice. It's not "cheating", it's an opportunity to create an image you wouldn't normally make because you're in a location or situation that you wouldn't normally be.
 
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#63
Talking of marathon running, this quote about Mo Farrah is interesting when considering a 'level playing field'.
He certainly runs the whole marathon but does he do it 'all on it's own'?
Do all other competitors get the same 'workshop' facilities or a pair of $1m running shoes?
Or does he do all of this to improve his ability?

OK that's an interesting piece to read. Yep, can't disagree with the fact that he has WAY better training & preparation than most other mortals that might take part in a marathon. We are on the same page there.

BUT, think about it, you have just entirely made my case for me!

What he is doing is paying for better training & facilities BEFORE the event. Whatever happens he still has to actually perform on his own on the day. He is not using the results from his training sessions for the competition is he? His trainer isn't running the race for him. etc. etc.

It's the same for workshops, as I've been saying all along, pay what you like, go where you want. No one minds, spend your hard earned cash any way you want.

Learn from them, but don't use the pictures taken in the session, instead put those skills into practice on the day that you take your OWN pictures.
 
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#64
Cannot agree with this; you then must step back to the guy with the £10k lens & £6k body. Has he not "bought" his images? There is no doubt that buying better gear helps you get better images, and better gear raises the consistency of you work unless you're an absolute beginner or inept.

Like I said, I went to a workshop and used longer/wider lenses than most, and took up different a POV from everybody else. I still had to run those images through Lightroom etc.

For most of us, things like workshops allow us to put what we have learned into practice. It's not "cheating", it's an opportunity to create an image you wouldn't normally make because you're in a location or situation that you wouldn't normally be.
Look I also play music. I've played the guitar for as long as I can remember. The guitar market is HUGE beyond belief. Years ago manufacturers cottoned on to the fact that giving expensive guitars/ amps/ strings etc. to popular working musicians would encourage the masses to buy the same stuff because of a misguided belief that it would enable them to sound like their idols. Well you won't be surprised to hear that it doesn't! Far from it. But it sells inordinate amounts of gear for people that are in pursuit of the perfect sound. They constantly upgrade in the hope that the next new guitar/ amp will make them sound better. The trouble is that you still have to perfect your craft. They'd be better spending more time refining basic skills to improve as a musician. I'm sure we've all been there at some point. A good musician will do more with a bad guitar than a poor musician with the best guitar.

It's the same with photography. Working professionals don't constantly upgrade their gear. Creativity, composition and capturing the moment are far more important than having the best glass.
 
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#67
BUT, think about it, you have just entirely made my case for me!
Only in your own mind! :LOL:

I've been to a couple of 'workshops' ... in essence they were opportunities to be at a place where I could photograph certain wildlife that it would otherwise have been very difficult for me to have photographed on my own, (time & opportunity).
For example, on one 'workshop' I was able to photograph a Snowy Owl out in the open ... I wouldn't even have known where to look to get this opportunity on my own ... I had no 'technical assistance' but I couldn't have got the photos without the help in having the owl available in the first place.
On another 'workshop' I had the opportunity to access some private land to photograph Kingfishers, at the time I had no idea where to locate such birds or the time in which to do so ... again I had no 'technical assistance' but I couldn't (at the time) have got the photos without help in having access to that site known to be frequented by Kingfishers.

I am guessing that these are not the type of 'workshops' that concern you?
Similarly thatyou would be happy with these type of experiences, if for no other reason than no photos were entered for any competitions?

Personally I have no time for the view that a photo is only of value if you have had to track everything down and go back twenty times to get the right shot ... whilst some people have the time and opportunity to do that, (or they make the time and opportunity at the expense of something else), most people simply do not have the time or opportunity to do so.

Having said that, just setting up the camera to allow someone else to 'click' and get 'THE' photo, can be very distressing!
As evidenced here!
 
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#68
Only in your own mind! :LOL:

I've been to a couple of 'workshops' ... in essence they were opportunities to be at a place where I could photograph certain wildlife that it would otherwise have been very difficult for me to have photographed on my own, (time & opportunity).
For example, on one 'workshop' I was able to photograph a Snowy Owl out in the open ... I wouldn't even have known where to look to get this opportunity on my own ... I had no 'technical assistance' but I couldn't have got the photos without the help in having the owl available in the first place.
On another 'workshop' I had the opportunity to access some private land to photograph Kingfishers, at the time I had no idea where to locate such birds or the time in which to do so ... again I had no 'technical assistance' but I couldn't (at the time) have got the photos without help in having access to that site known to be frequented by Kingfishers.

I am guessing that these are not the type of 'workshops' that concern you?
Similarly thatyou would be happy with these type of experiences, if for no other reason than no photos were entered for any competitions?

Personally I have no time for the view that a photo is only of value if you have had to track everything down and go back twenty times to get the right shot ... whilst some people have the time and opportunity to do that, (or they make the time and opportunity at the expense of something else), most people simply do not have the time or opportunity to do so.

Having said that, just setting up the camera to allow someone else to 'click' and get 'THE' photo, can be very distressing!
As evidenced here!
Again, for me, comes down to what you feel comfortable with and your individual level of "honesty". We all need help on occasion. I'm happy to read a camera manual, try things, read stuff online, research YouTube etc to formulate an understanding of how to use my camera and demonstrate various techniques. So when someone else gets that impossible shot and they had to ask how to set their camera it just doesn't sit well...

I might ask a mate down the pub where he took his Kingfisher shots, he might tell me. I might go on my own, he might go with me. Finding the subjects could have been done with a bit of online research so what's the difference in using someone? But when I get there I wouldn't expect him to then set my camera for me. Furthermore I wouldn't expect to find a set of portable Godox Flash Units and loads of bait there! I might as well have just asked him to take my camera next time he went and pop off a few shots for me. So I'd be fine with entering those pictures into a competition.

One of my earlier posts alluded to two extremes and a middle grey area. Your examples are in the grey area.

I do believe that you appreciate where I'm coming from.
 
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#69
I mainly do (well try to do) still life photography, flowers, table top etc.
In my view, for me personally, I will do nearly everything myself, I make backdrops, my own texture overlays, I source my flowers or props, I don't use bought presets. I want the photo to be all mine, well as much as I can. The only thing I can't do, because I'm cr*p at art, is paint my own big textured type backdrops, so I have bought a couple.
But this is just me, some people don't have the resources or skills to do it all themselves and that fine.
 
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#70
I mainly do (well try to do) still life photography, flowers, table top etc.
In my view, for me personally, I will do nearly everything myself, I make backdrops, my own texture overlays, I source my flowers or props, I don't use bought presets. I want the photo to be all mine, well as much as I can. The only thing I can't do, because I'm cr*p at art, is paint my own big textured type backdrops, so I have bought a couple.
But this is just me, some people don't have the resources or skills to do it all themselves and that fine.
Sounds like you enjoy what you do and it must be very satisfying. Nothing wrong with that!
 
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#72
It's the same with photography. Working professionals don't constantly upgrade their gear. Creativity, composition and capturing the moment are far more important than having the best glass.
Was I not saying something similar?

Expensive top draw kit helps you get better images, there is no doubt about that. However, unless you can use that kit correctly then your images are still going to be "average" at best. However, being in a situation where somebody points out that you are not doing something correctly, or actually don't understand what you're doing is part of the education. The photographer still has to "make the image".

When I went to Mull I hired a guide for a couple of days because it's his job to know where the wildlife is, I only had 8 days on the island and I could have spent most of it not seeing anything. I still consider the fact that I saw eagles, otters, owls etc as legitimate sightings, even though the guide said "we may see an otter along here"....

The morality is about disclosure. If you visit one of those Kingfisher hides with a bait tank and get an outstanding photo, great, well done. Just make sure you let people know how you did it..... (Same with mice in a studio).
 
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#73
In what way are they in "the grey area"?
I reckon that most would agree that the range of "assistance" goes from absolutely none whatsoever to the other extreme whereby the guy running a workshop basically takes the picture for you. One being considered acceptable and the other not. In between that people's opinions differ. Some would say that using better equipment falls into the assistance bracket and others that going on a workshop just to be at the location is ok. And many other permutations...this is what I would call the grey area. Where you have to decide for yourself how much assistance you deem to have received.

The post below yours by Jelster puts it quite well (the line about disclosure).
 
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#74
Was I not saying something similar?

Expensive top draw kit helps you get better images, there is no doubt about that. However, unless you can use that kit correctly then your images are still going to be "average" at best. However, being in a situation where somebody points out that you are not doing something correctly, or actually don't understand what you're doing is part of the education. The photographer still has to "make the image".

When I went to Mull I hired a guide for a couple of days because it's his job to know where the wildlife is, I only had 8 days on the island and I could have spent most of it not seeing anything. I still consider the fact that I saw eagles, otters, owls etc as legitimate sightings, even though the guide said "we may see an otter along here"....

The morality is about disclosure. If you visit one of those Kingfisher hides with a bait tank and get an outstanding photo, great, well done. Just make sure you let people know how you did it..... (Same with mice in a studio).
Yes I agree. Hiring a guide seems a very sensible idea.

You are right about the morality being about the disclosure. If that was in club rules to state that you went to a Kingfisher hide for example then the judge would be able to their discretion to rate the picture accordingly. I'd be happy with that.
 
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#75
I reckon that most would agree that the range of "assistance" goes from absolutely none whatsoever to the other extreme whereby the guy running a workshop basically takes the picture for you. One being considered acceptable and the other not. In between that people's opinions differ. Some would say that using better equipment falls into the assistance bracket and others that going on a workshop just to be at the location is ok. And many other permutations...this is what I would call the grey area. Where you have to decide for yourself how much assistance you deem to have received.

The post below yours by Jelster puts it quite well (the line about disclosure).
Which IMO brings us full circle i.e. abide by the competition rules in submissions and judging.
Anything else is surely moaning that the rules/judging doesn't match 'your' particular view.
If the rule 'your own work' needs clarification, it should be clarified in the rules, not by one 'side' vilifying the other.
 
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#76
I know there's a 'wink' there, but I can't see where the joke is, soz :(

Clubs can be a superb way for people to learn photography, although I agree comps aren't for everyone, but a comp winner is rarely not a very good image

Dave
It was perhaps a little harsh for which I apologise.

I do believe this thread and other similar ones on here (how can I say this diplomatically...) don't show camera clubs at their best!

To chip in to the OP... regardless of whether workshop produced images are unfair they will be bland/copycat/derivative as everyone is shooting the same subject/scene which has been set up and no doubt shot a gazillion times before by everyone else who has and hasn't attended the workshops. Now if that is considered good photography by camera clubs then I'll revert back to my very first comments ;)

Good photography is everywhere but so is bad photography. Discussing whether the 'best' view of Buachaille Etive Mor is a fraction to the right/to the left or how fast the mandatory stream in the foreground should be flowing isn't good photography and should perhaps be left to the limitations of camera clubs.
 

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#77
Just make sure you let people know how you did it.....
I'm not disagreeing as such, but I am wondering why anyone needs to let anyone know anything.

If it's not specified in the rules there is no obligation and people who cheat, cheat regardless.

Just curious.
 
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Brian
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#79
Look I also play music. I've played the guitar for as long as I can remember. The guitar market is HUGE beyond belief. Years ago manufacturers cottoned on to the fact that giving expensive guitars/ amps/ strings etc. to popular working musicians would encourage the masses to buy the same stuff because of a misguided belief that it would enable them to sound like their idols. Well you won't be surprised to hear that it doesn't! Far from it. But it sells inordinate amounts of gear for people that are in pursuit of the perfect sound. They constantly upgrade in the hope that the next new guitar/ amp will make them sound better. The trouble is that you still have to perfect your craft. They'd be better spending more time refining basic skills to improve as a musician. I'm sure we've all been there at some point. A good musician will do more with a bad guitar than a poor musician with the best guitar.

It's the same with photography. Working professionals don't constantly upgrade their gear. Creativity, composition and capturing the moment are far more important than having the best glass.
I'm not so sure about that, I'd say there were close parallels.
A lot of people will buy the latest and highest resolution camera in the mistaken belief that they will be able to take better photos.
The main difference is that anybody can be a photographer, but to play an instrument takes skill and talent.

One of our club members once said "I used to take rubbish photos, so I bought a better quality camera, and I finished up with better quality rubbish."
 
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