Vaping and driving

Straight answer is, as I've already said at least once, if you can't see properly out of your right eye, you need to turn your head further for your left eye to view it properly, that is unless you have had the bridge of your nose removed. Having to move your head that much further, as I have already said, means you see less to your left.
It really is that simple. You are just overcomplicating and misreading things, I never said nor implied I can see the rear pillar without turning my head. I said I can see out of the rear passenger window without turning my head. But the fact remains you will need to turn your head further than me to see out of the rear passenger window properly in the direction of the rear pillar.

And what about those people who cannot look over either shoulder?
(see post 237)
Should they not be permitted to drive at all?
 
Straight answer is, as I've already said at least once, if you can't see properly out of your right eye, you need to turn your head further for your left eye to view it properly, that is unless you have had the bridge of your nose removed. Having to move your head that much further, as I have already said, means you see less to your left.
It really is that simple. You are just overcomplicating and misreading things, I never said nor implied I can see the rear pillar without turning my head. I said I can see out of the rear passenger window without turning my head. But the fact remains you will need to turn your head further than me to see out of the rear passenger window properly in the direction of the rear pillar.

And as I've already said , it's a matter of millimetres so it has such a minute bearing as to be negligible. Not sure why you feel the need to judge based on no information or experience whatsoever but feel the need to dismiss the views of those who have both.

Jog on and learn to read.

and there's no need for that!
 
Door mirrors, both door mirrors.(y)

and you really felt it was absolutely necessary to point that out ?
Legally the only mirrors you have to have is the driver side door mirror plus one other, interior rear view mirror is optional but then you
would need the passenger side door one.

You weren't by any chance a mod scooter owner ?
 
And as I've already said , it's a matter of millimetres so it has such a minute bearing as to be negligible. Not sure why you feel the need to judge based on no information or experience whatsoever but feel the need to dismiss the views of those who have both.



and there's no need for that!
Let's ascertain your "it's a matter of millimetres". Sit in your car and keep your head facing directly forward. What can you see to your left and right. Now close your right eye and make note of what you can see to your left and right. Do the same closing your left eye. In each case, are you able to see anything which is 5"-6" behind your head. If not how far behind you is it that you can see? That will be the difference.

Sometimes there is every need for that.
 
To be honest irrespective of @fabs and @Gremlin having defective eyesight, both their respective Optometrist's and the DVLA have clearly declared them fit to hold a license which should be enough.
How they go about their driving and compensating etc is jack all to do with anyone else.
There are far worse people on the road to contend with.

I mean come on for goodness sake, next we will be debating your penis size determines what kind of car you can drive?! :p:exit:
 
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To be honest irrespective of @fabs and @Gremlin having defective eyesight, both their respective Optometrist's and the DVLA have clearly declared them fit to hold a license which should be enough.
How they go about their driving and compensating etc is jack all to do with anyone else.
There are far worse people on the road to contend with.

I mean come on for goodness sake, next we will be debating your penis size determines what kind of car you can drive?! :p:exit:
If it's nothing to do with anyone else, why did you feel you had to tag them in your post. Wouldn't be so they can give your post a LIKE when they see it by any chance.


Did someone mention .................................................................................
 
If it's nothing to do with anyone else, why did you feel you had to tag them in your post. Wouldn't be so they can give your post a LIKE when they see it by any chance.


Did someone mention .................................................................................
They will see it and may LIKE it whether or not i tag them so that argument is already flawed.
However will you have a problem with that also?
 
If it's nothing to do with anyone else, why did you feel you had to tag them in your post. Wouldn't be so they can give your post a LIKE when they see it by any chance.


Did someone mention .................................................................................

Perhaps because for days you've been calling into question their ability to drive, when you have zero medical insight, no real knowledge of circumstances or driving legislation, and a rather holier than thou "I know better than you do" attitude.
 
Let's ascertain your "it's a matter of millimetres". Sit in your car and keep your head facing directly forward. What can you see to your left and right. Now close your right eye and make note of what you can see to your left and right. Do the same closing your left eye. In each case, are you able to see anything which is 5"-6" behind your head. If not how far behind you is it that you can see? That will be the difference.

Sometimes there is every need for that.

and you obviously haven't yet researched losing sight in one eye, there is a far more adverse effect then what you are saying, hence me telling you twice now, that simply closing
one eye while sitting stationary gives you absolutely no idea what you are talking about, and please don't try and drive for any distance whilst you are trying to prove your theory.

If it's nothing to do with anyone else, why did you feel you had to tag them in your post. Wouldn't be so they can give your post a LIKE when they see it by any chance..
Oooh hadn't realised it was your personal right to argue my right to be allowed to drive

They will see it and may LIKE it whether or not i tag them so that argument is already flawed.
However will you have a problem with that also?

Correct as I am following this thread, I would see it but hey have a LIKE anyway(y)
 
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Let's ascertain your "it's a matter of millimetres". Sit in your car and keep your head facing directly forward. What can you see to your left and right. Now close your right eye and make note of what you can see to your left and right. Do the same closing your left eye. In each case, are you able to see anything which is 5"-6" behind your head. If not how far behind you is it that you can see? That will be the difference.

Sometimes there is every need for that.

It seems you have 360 degree vision if you can see behind your head!

As Ingrid has said, closing one eye does NOT give you any idea of what impact our visual disabilities have on our ability to drive. You can't simulate a disability as easily as you seem to think. People with knowledge ad experience are trying to explain it to you but all you do is tell them they're wrong based on nothing but assumption.

You do seem to lack any knowledge of how disability affects people as was borne out in the Vauxhall thread where you couldn't understand why the controls in the Ford Focus weren't optimal for me.
 
When I clicked on this thread to see what stage the argument discussion was at now, all that was showing of that thumbs up was the thumb. Looks a bit rude, fnar, fnar! :D
 
Perhaps because for days you've been calling into question their ability to drive, when you have zero medical insight, no real knowledge of circumstances or driving legislation, and a rather holier than thou "I know better than you do" attitude.
Do you like the polar bear?
 
and you obviously haven't yet researched losing sight in one eye, there is a far more adverse effect then what you are saying, hence me telling you twice now, that simply closing
one eye while sitting stationary gives you absolutely no idea what you are talking about, and please don't try and drive for any distance whilst you are trying to prove your theory.
So it's worse than I first thought, thanks for some sort of clarification, but still not the information I requested.
Oh and I have walked and driven with an eye patch on several occasions and alternate eyes for that matter (not on the road) so I am fully aware what it is like to drive with one eye shut but as yourself and fabs keep telling me it's not the same and I'm still awaiting the definitive answer as to why or how it isn't and how your eyesight differs from me having one eye closed or covered up.
 
It seems you have 360 degree vision if you can see behind your head!

As Ingrid has said, closing one eye does NOT give you any idea of what impact our visual disabilities have on our ability to drive. You can't simulate a disability as easily as you seem to think. People with knowledge ad experience are trying to explain it to you but all you do is tell them they're wrong based on nothing but assumption.

You do seem to lack any knowledge of how disability affects people as was borne out in the Vauxhall thread where you couldn't understand why the controls in the Ford Focus weren't optimal for me.
Do you like the snow fox?


The wall is behind my head, I can see the wall at either side of my head, I didn't say I could see the section of wall directly behind my head. Perhaps you should try harder, so far yourself and Ingrid have done a very poor job of educating me on what you can and can't see, because all you do is ignore my questions and seem to be obsessed with millimetres. I know what a millimetre is, but again you have ignored my questions and tell me where the millimetres come into it.
 
Do you like the snow fox?


The wall is behind my head, I can see the wall at either side of my head, I didn't say I could see the section of wall directly behind my head. Perhaps you should try harder, so far yourself and Ingrid have done a very poor job of educating me on what you can and can't see, because all you do is ignore my questions and seem to be obsessed with millimetres. I know what a millimetre is, but again you have ignored my questions and tell me where the millimetres come into it.

I haven't ignored you questions, you just don't like (or understand) the answers.

Can't be bothered with you any more, your lack of knowledge and experience and the unwillingness to listen to those who don't lack it just makes you ignorant so it's pointless trying to continue the debate.
 
Please see the attached image which shows each human eye as having approx 155 degrees of view.
The requirement by the DVLA is for a car driver to have at least 120 degrees of view.
This can be easily achieved with sight in just one eye.
Now if we say the right eye is redundant then their is an approx 35 degree defecit in the field of view on that side. In order to make that angle up requires only a small rotation of the head which is possibly where fabs noting of millimetres will come into play.
Furthermore the above is based upon your eyes remaining centred. Given their ability to move left and right within their socket then the left eye can give a little bit more field of view when it looks right (before the nose becomes an obstruction).
VisualFieldHoriz.gif
 
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I'm still awaiting the definitive answer as to why or how it isn't and how your eyesight differs from me having one eye closed or covered up.
The brain adapts. In particular, peripheral vision can be improved by training.
 
What a suprise. Another thread about driving/cars where nialgin is right and everyone else is wrong and putting other road users at risk.

But thanks for the comedy read.

Back to te original question. Vaping is probably fine if you don't fill the car with the vapour.
 
So it's worse than I first thought, thanks for some sort of clarification, but still not the information I requested.
Oh and I have walked and driven with an eye patch on several occasions and alternate eyes for that matter (not on the road) so I am fully aware what it is like to drive with one eye shut but as yourself and fabs keep telling me it's not the same and I'm still awaiting the definitive answer as to why or how it isn't and how your eyesight differs from me having one eye closed or covered up.

I have said go and research for yourself, unless you don't know how to, which l can't believe.
No matter what l say you will argue so at least if you read it from an official source you can argue with
them instead
 
Please see the attached image which shows each human eye as having approx 155 degrees of view.
The requirement by the DVLA is for a car driver to have at least 120 degrees of view.
This can be easily achieved with sight in just one eye.
Now if we say the right eye is redundant then their is an approx 35 degree defecit in the field of view on that side. In order to make that angle up requires only a small rotation of the head which is possibly where fabs noting of millimetres will come into play.
Furthermore the above is based upon your eyes remaining centred. Given their ability to move left and right within their socket then the left eye can give a little bit more field of view when it looks right (before the nose becomes an obstruction).
View attachment 74962
Whilst I didn't provide a diagram or state any angles other than stating that approx. 25% of the vision is lost by one eye closed, I pretty much said all this in a post.
As for moving my eyes left and right, the amount I see doesn't change, but the view is just clearer because I can focus on it better than just relying on the peripheral vision.
 
I have said go and research for yourself, unless you don't know how to, which l can't believe.
No matter what l say you will argue so at least if you read it from an official source you can argue with
them instead
OK seeing as fabs and yourself don't want to come up with the answers to my questions, I have done as you said and researched it for myself. I'll share what I have found.
The highlighted parts make for interesting reading.
Implications of Acquired Monocular Vision
Acquired monocular vision will affect vision and the individual in several ways. There are two main issues which are uniformly and predominantly addressed by the published literature and authorities. The two primary deficits are loss of stereoscopic binocular vision and reduction of peripheral field of vision. Most of the ramifications and symptoms of monocular vision are a result of these two deficiencies.
Literature
According to Borrish, monocular vision versus binocular vision results in approximately a 25% decrease in the size of the field of view. Monocularity causes an absence of stereopsis which comes from the lack of comparison of retinal disparity present in binocular individuals. Monocular individuals will have decreased visual acuity (compared to their binocular counterparts) because of their lack of binocular summation. Binocular summation is the phenomenon by which people see better with both eyes together than by either eye alone. Monocular people will have an impairment in their orientation (to space) which results from a lack of kinesthetic cues arising from convergence (binocular "eye aiming") and accommodation (focusing).

Gunter von Noorden writes that the monocular cues of motion parallax, linear perspective, overlay of contours, distribution of highlights and shadows, size of known objects and aerial perspective can be be used for spatial orientation. He states, "The nature of non stereoscopic clues is that they are experiential and can be meaningful only when they are capable of being related to past experience."

According to von Noorden the advantages of binocular vision (and conversely the disadvantage to monocular vision) are in visual motor skills, better exteroception of form and color, and better appreciation of the dynamic relationship of the body to the environment, thereby facilitating control of manipulation, reaching and balance.

Brady writes the main problems in monocular vision are primarily attributable to a loss of stereopsis and a reduction of the peripheral field of vision. According to Brady, the loss of peripheral vision is between ten and twenty percent. (I guessed at 25%) He says these problems will manifest as difficulties in eye hand coordination, clumsiness, bumping into objects and/or people, ascending or descending stairs or curbs, crossing the street, driving, various sports and miscellaneous activities of daily living which require stereopsis and peripheral vision. Brady believes people may develop an increased awareness because of the monocular condition and that there is a better prognosis with onset at a younger age.

Brady raises additional concerns and issues for monocular individuals. One, the need for eye protection and safeguarding the good eye. Two, the need to have back-up prescriptions on hand. Three, the need to employ driving aids and techniques such as special mirrors, scanning with the head and eyes, and heightened awareness. Four, the implications of cosmesis. And five, the concerns for a prosthetic device.

Schein writes, "Individuals limited by loss of vision in one eye have difficulties in depth perception." "Determining the distance within three feet from the eye is extremely difficult and highly unreliable." "Beyond three feet, other distance cues can substitute for loss of binocular disparity, provided monocularly impaired individuals are free to move their heads, which allows them to obtain information about relative distances by taking more time than they would when visual images from both eyes can be superimposed, as they are with binocular vision." "Mishaps can occur when monocularly impaired persons are in heavy traffic unless the head is constantly moving from side to side to increase the visual field". He believes that rehabilitation is easier with an earlier age of onset, that a gradual loss of vision in one eye allows for better adjustments to the condition than sudden onset and that rehabilitation is less complicated with a total loss of vision than a partial loss of vision. Regarding driving safety, Schein quotes a study by Keeney, et al. who state that, "nationwide, monocularly impaired individuals have seven times more accidents than the general population with which they were compared." Schein states, "Occupations most affected are those that require close work (e.g. barber, beautician, bartender, machinist, needle worker, surgeon); those that involve vehicle operation (e.g. airline pilot, bus driver, motorman); and any work demanding prolonged visual vigilance (e.g. air traffic controller)."
 
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I haven't ignored you questions, you just don't like (or understand) the answers.

Can't be bothered with you any more, your lack of knowledge and experience and the unwillingness to listen to those who don't lack it just makes you ignorant so it's pointless trying to continue the debate.
Whatever!
 
Whatever!
Yet you, yourself continue to avoid questions.

Here

You seem intent on thinking only those who grasp the wheel whilst driving, and give only a cursory glance to the world around you, are fit to drive.
 
Yet you, yourself continue to avoid questions.

Here

You seem intent on thinking only those who grasp the wheel whilst driving, and give only a cursory glance to the world around you, are fit to drive.
I'd have answered before had I actually seen it. So long as the DVLA are aware, they can pass a driving test and their insurance company is aware of any disability, of course they can drive. As for your last comment, you're not going to get very far down the road if you don't hold the wheel and keep surveying the roads around you. Otherwise accidents happen and is it any wonder more and more autonomous safety features are being added to cars. The man with his red flag was made redundant 120yrs ago, it's every motorists responsibility to watch where they are going and drive safely. If that means extra mirrors, or specially adapted controls, so be it.
 
I'd have answered before had I actually seen it. So long as the DVLA are aware, they can pass a driving test and their insurance company is aware of any disability, of course they can drive. As for your last comment, you're not going to get very far down the road if you don't hold the wheel and keep surveying the roads around you. Otherwise accidents happen and is it any wonder more and more autonomous safety features are being added to cars. The man with his red flag was made redundant 120yrs ago, it's every motorists responsibility to watch where they are going and drive safely. If that means extra mirrors, or specially adapted controls, so be it.

and that is a contradictionary statement if ever I read one, do away with the red flag but add loads of extra useless things so drivers don't have to think for themselves, wonder how many
could drive a real car without all these extras.

Oh and regarding your quoted statement above about monocular vision, that is just what I was saying about the human body compensating.
Try this.hold a pen at arms length in one hand and see if you can touch it one finger of the other first time without hesitation.......................... I can and I be @fabs
can too, my physio guy found it strange that he couldn't
One Guys opinion, can you give us a link so we can check his qualifications
 
and that is a contradictionary statement if ever I read one, do away with the red flag but add loads of extra useless things so drivers don't have to think for themselves, wonder how many
could drive a real car without all these extras.

Oh and regarding your quoted statement above about monocular vision, that is just what I was saying about the human body compensating.
Try this.hold a pen at arms length in one hand and see if you can touch it one finger of the other first time without hesitation.......................... I can and I be @fabs
can too, my physio guy found it strange that he couldn't
One Guys opinion, can you give us a link so we can check his qualifications
All these extras are relatively new and mostly fitted to high spec models, not something you are likely to find on driving school cars, so a very high proportion of people will be able to drive a real car as you put it.

https://nora.cc/for-patients-mainmenu-34/loss-of-one-eye-mainmenu-70.html
 
All these extras are relatively new and mostly fitted to high spec models, not something you are likely to find on driving school cars, so a very high proportion of people will be able to drive a real car as you put it.

https://nora.cc/for-patients-mainmenu-34/loss-of-one-eye-mainmenu-70.html

and if you read that article in depth you will see it also tells you what we have been trying to say, that with time the brain adapts to the loss !

It may be that all these thing are fairly new but I learnt to drive in a car with no ABS, power steering etc, and yes I can still drive one if I have to,
as proven when my local garage owner asks me to either do an MOT run or return a car to it's owner, just because you learn to drive on a basic
car doesn't mean you continue to use one, and I do have to wonder how reliant people become on things, electric windows for a start, could you
safely drive whilst using a window winder? Trust me it doesn't require taking your eyes off the road at all
 
All these extras are relatively new and mostly fitted to high spec models, not something you are likely to find on driving school cars,

Yet.....a satnav section is shortly to be introduced to the practical test.
Others will follow.

Currently, driver assists such as parking sensors must be disabled during the test.
Quite right too.
 
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and if you read that article in depth you will see it also tells you what we have been trying to say, that with time the brain adapts to the loss !

It may be that all these thing are fairly new but I learnt to drive in a car with no ABS, power steering etc, and yes I can still drive one if I have to,
as proven when my local garage owner asks me to either do an MOT run or return a car to it's owner, just because you learn to drive on a basic
car doesn't mean you continue to use one, and I do have to wonder how reliant people become on things, electric windows for a start, could you
safely drive whilst using a window winder? Trust me it doesn't require taking your eyes off the road at all
If you read in depth you'll see there are a lot of recommendations supporting what I have been saying. Just because the site is American and not British, it doesn't mean it isn't relative.
Keeney, et al., state, "nationwide, monocularly impaired individuals have seven times more accidents than the general population with which they were compared." He recommends monocularly impaired drivers be denied class 1 licenses, (commercial driver license for transport of people), and that they be warned by by their doctors regarding increased risk of accident with driving.

The visual requirements for driving vary by state, but most allow monocular driving and require the same in terms of visual acuity. While most states have visual field requirements, ***most / all states requirements for extent of visual field are met by the amount of monocular visual field.

Optical aids such as wide field mirrors and mirrors on both sides of the vehicle are recommended for the monocular driver. Training in and encouragement of head and eye movements for increased scanning and peripheral vision awareness are recommended. Undergoing a drivers' skill and safety evaluation by a certified driving specialist is recommended. If there is a problem, such specialists are typically trained to provide driving training to the individual to ensure their safe driving.

Depending on the individual and the evaluation by the driving specialist, certain restrictions for a specified, or permanent amount of time may be indicated. Such restrictions might include: special adaptive equipment (e.g. mirrors, automatic transmission only), daylight driving only, speed limitations, within certain distances from home, good weather restriction, and / or no highway driving. The person may be required to have their drivers license renewed and evaluated more often than otherwise.

Of course I can drive without ABS, electric windows, power steering etc, none of it is hard.
 
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Try this.hold a pen at arms length in one hand and see if you can touch it one finger of the other first time without hesitation.......................... I can and I be @fabs
can too, my physio guy found it strange that he couldn't
Not really sure what this is supposed to prove, I tried it with both hands, alternate eyes shut, both eyes open, both eyes shut, same result every time, no problem, no hesitation
 
Wrong wrestler, I was nicknamed after this one.
 
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