Well done Scotland raise taxes to pay for NHS and Benefits

Sorry, but 75k is not wealthy. Certainly should not be a 45% tax rate.
 
cambsno said:
Sorry, but 75k is not wealthy. Certainly should not be a 45% tax rate.
Click to expand...
I just checked the article. The fairly well off (75-125k) pay 5% more. The JAMs on 45-75 get an effective tax increase of inflation (4.6% edit: oops 3.9% just announced. Still food is up 9% so....) because their tax band is frozen. The rich (125k+) pay 1% more.

Yeah......
 
Last edited:
JonathanRyan said:
I just checked the article. The fairly well off (75-125k) pay 5% more. The JAMs on 45-75 get an effective tax increase of inflation (4.6%) because their tax band is frozen. The rich (125k+) pay 1% more.

Yeah......
Click to expand...

The rich getting richer as always.
 
andya700 said:
In my World £75K is wealthy, neither the missus or I have earned half that (she is a senior scientist).
Click to expand...

Just did a check. 75k is approx take home pay of 4k a month. Someone getting a 3 bed house (at the cheaper end of the market here) with 10k deposit over 30 years is just over 2k a month.

Add on 700for core Utilities like council tax, gas, broadband etc, 500 shopping that leaves 800 a month for stuff like car, pension top up, house maintenance, holidays…. A car on finance can easily be 300+. So someone living in a 3 bed house, with a 15k car and having 500 or less of disposable income is not what I would call wealthy.

I imagine you are one of the lucky ones who managed to buy when prices were cheaper. The only way my kids will be able to buy a house (until I die) will be by earning 75k+

It is all relative, someone who say does get an inheritance and lives mortgage free is laughing on 75k but living costs are super scary. Even renting a not that great 3 bed house is 1400 a month.
 
A simple way to make higher rates of income tax fairer would be to tax household income rather than individuals, like in France, so eg a couple earning £50k and £35k get taxed on £85k income; a couple on £65k and £0k get taxed on £65k. Allowances for children, and all the usual, plus the taxable income is AFTER deduction of NI. But no government is willing to properly reform the mess that is the UK tax system.
 
lindsay said:
A simple way to make higher rates of income tax fairer would be to tax household income rather than individuals, like in France, so eg a couple earning £50k and £35k get taxed on £85k income; a couple on £65k and £0k get taxed on £65k. Allowances for children, and all the usual, plus the taxable income is AFTER deduction of NI. But no government is willing to properly reform the mess that is the UK tax system.
Click to expand...
I was actually thinking this in the light of @andya700 comment above.

It seems a perverse incentive that a couple are better off both taking 40k jobs than one taking an 80k job and one looking after a family.

I think with modern family units it might be hard to implement a "family" taxation system but it seems worth trying.
 
cambsno said:
Sorry, but 75k is not wealthy. Certainly should not be a 45% tax rate.
Click to expand...
It is in my world, in fact it's more than 3 times the biggest salary I ever earned ( I was on the top factory floor wage where I worked, many many earned and still do less than £25K a year)
 
Delphin said:
It is in my world, in fact it's more than 3 times the biggest salary I ever earned ( I was on the top factory floor wage where I worked, many many earned and still do less than £25K a year)
Click to expand...

But when I think of wealthy, I dont think of someone in a 3 bed house with a 2 year old car and a comfortable standard of living. Wealthy for me starts at a 5 bed house at least, or having multiple homes, a Porsche (or similar) and 2 -3 very nice holidays a year, maybe with some form of private school, or they own a boat or an aeroplane. Earnings are one thing, my dad earnt a very average wage back in the 70s but could afford a house that you probably couldnt buy even if you earnt double that (and adjusted for inflation). When I was born, and he was 25, they were already in a 3 bed semi.
 
Delphin said:
It is in my world, in fact it's more than 3 times the biggest salary I ever earned ( I was on the top factory floor wage where I worked, many many earned and still do less than £25K a year)
Click to expand...

Its also relative to lifestyle, my GF is far wealthier than me. Good savings, mortgage free. But I earn close to double what she does but have a huge mortgage and less savings.
 
cambsno said:
Sorry, but 75k is not wealthy. Certainly should not be a 45% tax rate.
Click to expand...

it is pretty wealthy tho compared to the standard income and for me thats what I like about the Scottish plan make higher earners pay a bit more.
 
The SNP have had to hike taxes to raise the funds in order to try and honour some of the pledges that keep them in power. Don’t be fooled into thinking it’ll get spent on our NHS…they need it to pay for some costly mistakes including the Calmac ferry orders and legal bills incurred trying to push no-win policies through at court level when they fail in Parliament. These tax rises rely on the voters sympathising with the age old ‘tax the wealthy’ trope in order to disguise fact they are a clear symptom of the wheels falling off the Scottish economy.
 
Spoken like somebody who doesn’t live here Mr Bump. Tax rises are acceptable if the money is spent sensibly and for the benefit of society. They are not acceptable (for anyone, rich or poor) if the money is not transparently ring fenced for certain societal causes eg healthcare, transport, education. We have seen good money thrown after bad for years here with multiple arrests and investigations into SNP party financial matters. It doesn’t take a genius to realise that our economy is struggling and our Government is skint, hence the new budget moves.
 
Last edited:
Who gives a flying f**k about politics? All it ever does is cause arguments and bad feeling. :headbang:

This is a photography forum FFS. Take it to the Hot Topics forum and you can argue yourselves stupid there - it's bad enough having to read about poxy air fryers. :mad:
 
Oops sorry - I just responded to the thread. This should indeed not be in this section looking at the rules. Apologies again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sky
I have no problem with higher taxes for the rich, but I don't see this as taxing the rich it's more about taxing the medium to higher earning workers, while I'll admit to some £75,000-£125,00 may seem like a lot of money it really isn't.

The biggest con is the freezing of tax thresholds this is hitting the least well of harder in percentage term, If things stay as planned pensioners on basic state pension will be paying taxes soon.

The vagaries in our tax system is basically the more you have the less in percentage terms you pay.
The average rate of tax paid by people who received one million pounds in taxable income and gains was just 35 per cent, the same as someone earning around £100,000, only one in four of these paid 45 per cent close to the top rate, while another quarter paid less than 30 per cent overall. One in ten paid just 11 per cent the same as someone earning around £15,000. The rich, it seems, are not all in it together.

These low rates are not driven by complex tax avoidance schemes, that's a whole other can of worms, they’re part of how our system is designed. Where you get your money from matters, because investment income and capital gains are taxed at lower rates than income from work.
 
The freezing of tax thresholds and then cutting the top rate is a crime that should never be forgiven. I think virtually all of us can see a need for a complete overall and simplification of the tax system.

We must also remember that tax is not a punishment, but the cost of living in a civilized society.
 
camairish said:
Spoken like somebody who doesn’t live here Mr Bump. Tax rises are acceptable if the money is spent sensibly and for the benefit of society. They are not acceptable (for anyone, rich or poor) if the money is not transparently ring fenced for certain societal causes eg healthcare, transport, education. We have seen good money thrown after bad for years here with multiple arrests and investigations into SNP party financial matters. It doesn’t take a genius to realise that our economy is struggling and our Government is skint, hence the new budget moves.
Click to expand...

I essentially lived in Scotland for nigh on 3 years while working as a defence contrator for HPE/DXC in Erskine some years ago and to be frank thought at the time areas arround needed
vast amount of help and money for social issues , where i live in west yorkshire i think is quite a poor area but boy areas arround glasgow took me back to the 80s.

I don't agree the subject is political but if we in society want all the benefits then we all have to pay.
As to middle to high earners being targeted instead of the super rich, my thoughts are most families wether middle or super high use similar local and council resources, rich people don't generally have 16 children just the standard 2.5 and a dog so all sectors of income should pick up there share.

You could even argue rich people have private health cover so don't burden the NHS also use private schools so are not a burden on the education sector.

it is fair to say the overall personal tax in the UK is high compared to the rest of europe so what is it thats not working?

List of Countries by Personal Income Tax Rate | Europe​

CountryLastPreviousReferenceUnit
Finland56.9556.95Dec/21%
Denmark5655.9Dec/22%
Austria5555Dec/23%
Sweden52.352.3Dec/23%
Belgium5050Dec/23%
Netherlands49.549.5Dec/23%
Portugal4848Dec/23%
Spain4747Dec/23%
Iceland46.2546.25Dec/23%
France4545Dec/23%
Germany4545Dec/22%
Slovenia4550Dec/22%
United Kingdom4545Dec/23%
Greece4444Dec/23%
Italy4343Dec/23%
Euro area42.943Dec/22%
Luxembourg4242Dec/23%
Ireland4040Dec/23%
Switzerland4040Dec/23%
Turkey4040Dec/23%
Norway38.238.2Dec/21%
European Union37.836.9Dec/21%
Cyprus3535Dec/23%
Malta3535Dec/23%
Poland3232Dec/23%
 
Last edited:
Delphin said:
The freezing of tax thresholds and then cutting the top rate is a crime that should never be forgiven. I think virtually all of us can see a need for a complete overall and simplification of the tax system.

We must also remember that tax is not a punishment, but the cost of living in a civilized society.
Click to expand...

It's crazy that the 40% tier is so low. An experienced teacher or a train driver are high rate tax payers. Thats not right and I am sure not what that meant to include originally. With todays cost of living, house prices etc... that threshold should probably be doubled or something.

I would also like to see all NI cancelled and put that on the tax rate (so for example a tax rate goes from 20-23% or something. Make it simpler.
 
Mr Bump said:
it is pretty wealthy tho compared to the standard income and for me thats what I like about the Scottish plan make higher earners pay a bit more.
Click to expand...

I think this has to be relative and area related too as there will be areas in which very few people earn that much and anyone doing so would be in a very top % of earners. In other areas £75k might not be anywhere near enough to leave much spending money at all.
 
The highest taxing countries in Europe
1) Finland
2) Denmark
3) Austria

The happiest people by nation in Europe
1)Austria
2) Finland
4 Denmark
 
cambsno said:
It's crazy that the 40% tier is so low. An experienced teacher or a train driver are high rate tax payers. Thats not right and I am sure not what that meant to include originally. With todays cost of living, house prices etc... that threshold should probably be doubled or something.

I would also like to see all NI cancelled and put that on the tax rate (so for example a tax rate goes from 20-23% or something. Make it simpler.
Click to expand...

thats an interesting thought but then sadly the lowest earners would not pay anything at all in to the system, at the moment people earning under 12,800 ? dont pay tax but they pay NI about above 8,600?
 
Sky said:
Who gives a flying f**k about politics? All it ever does is cause arguments and bad feeling. :headbang:

This is a photography forum FFS. Take it to the Hot Topics forum and you can argue yourselves stupid there - it's bad enough having to read about poxy air fryers. :mad:
Click to expand...
But you don't have to read anything, just skip the threads you are not interested in.
 
Delphin said:
The highest taxing countries in Europe
1) Finland
2) Denmark
3) Austria

The happiest people by nation in Europe
1)Austria
2) Finland
4 Denmark
Click to expand...

Looking at these things it's interesting to think why people are happy. For example the theft rates in Denmark seem astronomical whilst the murder rates in both Finland and Denmark give them a higher (and that's a bad thing) rating than the UK. On the positive side Finland, Denmark and Austria rank high for property rights and all higher than the UK which is not great news if you believe that in the near future we will own nothing and be happy as this seems to point to people being happiest when their property rights are most protected. Interesting.
 
woof woof said:
Looking at these things it's interesting to think why people are happy. For example the theft rates in Denmark seem astronomical whilst the murder rates in both Finland and Denmark give them a higher (and that's a bad thing) rating than the UK. On the positive side Finland, Denmark and Austria rank high for property rights and all higher than the UK which is not great news if you believe that in the near future we will own nothing and be happy as this seems to point to people being happiest when their property rights are most protected. Interesting.
Click to expand...

Also there is a difference between high tax and fair tax, plus it's also the whole cost of 'life'. I would have no problem with 50% tax if we had great NHS, schools, roads etc... and also housing was affordable and we did not have additional taxes
 
camairish said:
We have seen good money thrown after bad for years here with multiple arrests and investigations into SNP party financial matters. It doesn’t take a genius to realise that our economy is struggling and our Government is skint, hence the new budget moves.
Click to expand...

Disingenuous at best.
Police "arrest" because it confers extra rights on those being questioned, it's standard practice and has nothing to do with guilt or innocence.
Your 'investigation' into SNP matters over £600k has been running for two years, found ZERO evidence, resulted in ZERO charges and has cost the Scottish taxpayer over a million pounds.
 
cambsno said:
Sorry, but 75k is not wealthy. Certainly should not be a 45% tax rate.
Click to expand...

That's a matter of opinon which will differ on where you personally stand in the pay scale. The point and the only thing that's important is that those on higher incomes can afford to pay extra. If you are on £125kpa plus and say you cannot afford to pay a couple of percent more then you need to look at your lifestyle.
 
Those at the top won't alter anything as they are afraid of loosing their jobs
 
cambsno said:
Also there is a difference between high tax and fair tax, plus it's also the whole cost of 'life'. I would have no problem with 50% tax if we had great NHS, schools, roads etc... and also housing was affordable and we did not have additional taxes
Click to expand...


That is really the issue how the money is spent, giving it to your mates, wasting it on none working policy or, doing thing like free public transport that is starting to happen in Europe.

www.euronews.com

Montpellier now has free public transport. Here's how to get a pass

Montpellier has launched its free public transport scheme ahead of Christmas.
www.euronews.com www.euronews.com
 
We up here would not complain(well some might) about rises in tax if the money was used constructively but this lot have announced that spending on ‘pretends embassy’s‘ is to rise, island ferries delay extended. Education, health service, police, roads etc etc are diabolical. SNP, Scottish nutcase party?
 
mj4456 said:
We up here would not complain(well some might) about rises in tax if the money was used constructively but this lot have announced that spending on ‘pretends embassy’s‘ is to rise, island ferries delay extended. Education, health service, police, roads etc etc are diabolical. SNP, Scottish nutcase party?
Click to expand...

Scottish spending on social services (Education, health service, police..) is consistently higher than elsewhere in the UK.
Education, consistently outperforming Englandshire (see PISA)
Health service, massively better performing than NHS England & Wales before you even mention the stuff we get for free that folk down South have to pay for.
Police Scotland, also consistently outperform their colleagues down South in almost all areas from response times to crime solving.
Our police, health workers and teachers are all paid better than their equivalents in rUK and almost all of them pay less tax here as well.
 
That only means that down south their systems are in an even worse state than ours.
 
Yeah but #snpbad...
 
Steep said:
Scottish spending on social services (Education, health service, police..) is consistently higher than elsewhere in the UK.
Education, consistently outperforming Englandshire (see PISA)
Health service, massively better performing than NHS England & Wales before you even mention the stuff we get for free that folk down South have to pay for.
Police Scotland, also consistently outperform their colleagues down South in almost all areas from response times to crime solving.
Our police, health workers and teachers are all paid better than their equivalents in rUK and almost all of them pay less tax here as well.
Click to expand...
Yes someone I know who moved to Scotland did say that they found NHS services much better in Scotland
 
whem i was working in Scotland I had free eye tests, that is such a simple thing to offer the public.
 
and of course.............

The Scottish Government abolished prescription charges on 1 April 2011
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top