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In light of today’s events do you think it’s time to arm all police?
What difference would it have made to today's events?
I agree that if he was wearing a vest, fake or not, then this may have been a good enough reason to kill him.He was wearing a vest. Fake or not, I think I would be shooting first and asking questions later. Absolute bravery from everyone who tried to intervene. They are all heroes, both the public and the emergency services.
I’m just glad today’s latest idiot was dealt with firmly and quickly before he could do further harm.
Sadly people have died and others injured or in shock.
What I did take comfort from was the fact that so many people took it upon themselves without stopping to think about the potential consequences to themselves to assist.
I wasn’t that far away from the incident today, but was completely unaware of it until I was on the train heading back up north.
I agree that if he was wearing a vest, fake or not, then this may have been a good enough reason to kill him.
But none of us should forget that the police stated that Jean Charles de Menezes, who they shot dead at Stockwell Tube station, was wearing clothes that appeared to be covering up an explosive vest. That statement turned out to be untrue and he was entirely innocent, but just as dead as a real terrorist. . . I'm not suggesting that the man that they shot today was innocent, the two cases seem to be very different.
I'm sure the people who risked their lives today are grateful for your armchair support
And also the brave officer(s) who shot JCM believing him to have bomb — the errors were further up the chain of command. It’s a difficult job and people may die if you get it wrong but the same applies to other jobs though it may be less obvious eg applying cladding to buildings .No problem.
Garry has a long history of not liking certain elements of the police regarding firearms and I find it a disgrace that he can come on social media and start offering thinly veiled criticism of very brave people today.
The public involved did an awesome job as did the officers staring at an explosive device attached to a terrorist attacker.
This is not the time for cheap point scoring - to do so is an absolute disgrace
Mike
And also the brave officer(s) who shot JCM believing him to have bomb — the errors were further up the chain of command. It’s a difficult job and people may die if you get it wrong but the same applies to other jobs though it may be less obvious eg applying cladding to buildings .
Garry has a long history of not liking certain elements of the police regarding firearms
and I find it a disgrace that he can come on social media and start offering thinly veiled criticism of very brave people today.
Agreed, and I haven't said otherwise. What I actually said wasThe public involved did an awesome job
Mike
It's obvious that members of the public did a great job.And as for today's event, I'm not suggesting that the police weren't justified in killing the suspect but it does appear that he was taken down and dealt with by unarmed members of the public before the police arrived.
I've watched the news, the police have stated that he was wearing what appeared to be an explosive vest, which turned out to be fake. If he was, then I don't have a problem with their actions but, based on past incidents, I would like to see evidence that he actually did appear to be carrying explosives.as did the officers staring at an explosive device attached to a terrorist attacker.
Mike
This is not the time for cheap point scoring - to do so is an absolute disgrace
Mike
I agree, but then I would because I haven't indulged in cheap point scoring.
Police are human, not everyone can cope with the outcome of a death they caused, however justifiable - consider the number of soldiers with PTSD. Arming all police isn't good for public safety or for the police, leave it to the specialists. A friend of mine, now retired, was on an armed response unit and he doesn't think it's a good idea either.
They are human too, they cope in what ever way they canHow do you think they manage to cope in Europe?
They are human too, they cope in what ever way they can
Does it help? How often does a German or Spanish or Greek officer discharge their weapon in anger? Firearms are extremely dangerous - it's their purpose after all - so the fewer dangerous things there are in the world the better IMHO.I just found it an interesting comment. So you believe that in Germany the fact that the police are armed is bad for them and bad for the German public?
Does it help? How often does a German or Spanish or Greek officer discharge their weapon in anger? Firearms are extremely dangerous - it's their purpose after all - so the fewer dangerous things there are in the world the better IMHO.
I was really struck, going through immigration at JFK by the young immigration officer, not much older than my children sat at a desk with a big fat "side arm" hanging off their belt. What were they going to do with it, start shooting in a crowded airport terminal? What was the point?
I have also been suprised by the extremely casual way I have seen Greek police officers handling rifles around the public.
What are the differences between German and British police, in recruitment, training, management, structure, pay, position in the legal structure, relations with the public, etc.
Any comparison would need to consider these factors, would they not?
as a nation we are in the minority when it comes to arming the police, and that it is just seen as the norm elsewhere.
I think it’s just what people are used to. After a while living abroad I never batted an eyelid at seeing armed police, or armed guards in the doors of jewellers or department stores.
But why? it's like the gun lobby in the US saying the way to end shootings is for everyone to be armed. You hear shots in the next room, rush in, see someone holding a gun and dead bodies on the floor so you shoot them ... someone else hears the shot rushes into the room, sees you holding a gun and shoots you.
Well, given that you are posting on here, I guess that goes without sayingI never saw anything like that.
But why? it's like the gun lobby in the US saying the way to end shootings is for everyone to be armed. You hear shots in the next room, rush in, see someone holding a gun and dead bodies on the floor so you shoot them ... someone else hears the shot rushes into the room, sees you holding a gun and shoots you.
Robust gun laws........SO why does that not happen in Germany and other countries with armed police?
Conversely; so why do terrorist attacks still happen in Germany and other countries with armed police?SO why does that not happen in Germany and other countries with armed police?
Robust gun laws........
Conversely; so why do terrorist attacks still happen in Germany and other countries with armed police?
Understood. So how would arming those police that aren't around help in that situation?Because its impossible to stop. Any one of us could go out to the local town centre with a kitchen knife or drive a car down a pavement and chances are there would be no police around
In light of today’s events do you think it’s time to arm all police?
Understood. So how would arming those police that aren't around help in that situation?
Because chances are that an unarmed police officer (currently) would be closer to a situation, especially outside a major place like London so could deal with it quicker.
What makes you think all police officers would just be handed a gun without proper training?I can see the way you're thinking, but how long do you think it takes to select and train a firearms officer to the stage where they can safely and efficiently deal with a terrorist incident in the middle of a busy town or city? At the moment, from what I understand, we appear to have specialist, intensively-trained, firearms units to deal with such incidents, and that makes me feel safe. Would I feel safe if every single police officer and probationary officer was carrying a gun? To be honest, no.
I speak from some limited personal experience here; I was once held at gunpoint by armed police (a case of mistaken identity and totally innocent but coincidental circumstance, and I didn’t blame the officers for their actions at all). Although I was standing alone with two Heckler and Koch sub-machine guns pointing at me through the open doors of a police car, I felt perfectly safe. The reason being? I knew how well those officers would have been trained to carry guns like that in the UK. I can still remember thinking ‘I hope one of them doesn’t pull the trigger, or they’re going to have some serious explaining to do!’… Funny how those thoughts stay with you!
At no time did I feel scared, despite the potential severity of the situation. Everyone remained perfectly calm and I did exactly as they instructed. My innocence was quickly established and we had a bit of a laugh and some banter about the situation afterwards. Now if that had been some basically trained, ashen-faced PC with a hand gun, I’d have probably needed a change of underwear, if I’d lived that long.
Probably because no one realised he was wearing a suicide vest. It turned out to be fake, but what if it had been real?As yesterday’s attacker was seemingly disarmed by the public with a narwhal tusk and a fire extinguisher in the first instance why bother with fire arms....