What camera and lens?

sisu said:
Hi, some information and recommendations needed if possible please. Im looking to take photos, for producing professional prints, without using photoshop etc, using my equipment as a canvas so to say. Im looking at shooting in bright light, but also in darkened environments at other times, for a type of example, within 1-3ft away from a lit aquarium/fish tank in a dark environment, but also at times the same distance but in bright environments. So, what dslr camera and lens would you good people recommend? Am i best going for full frame or cropped sensor? Macro lens etc, as for cameras, ive been looking at Nikon D610, D7200, D7500, D750, D810, Canon EOS 5D MKIII, Canon EOS 5DS, ideally like to keep the cost as low as possible, as i know the Canon EOS 5DS and the Nikon D810 are expensive but have high MP, but is that as important as people make out for professional quality large prints? Thanks for reading and i will be very grateful for anyones advice, thanks.
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Hi Simon, I hope you can take some of the great advice from the good members here, and don`t worry about the playground comments (y)
 
Sometimes we need a little light relief if things get too tense. Now back to the subject :canon::woot:
 
woof woof said:
I agree with you that DSLR's aren't as good for manual focusing as film era (or other...) cameras with in built focus aids and added the extra about mirrorless being fantastic for manual focusing... so much so that any Victor Meldrew types with hair trigger personalities might upon trying them exclaim "I don't believe it!"

Why do I bother...
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OK, I am sorry I did not see the humour in what was a derailed thread. Sincere apologies, next time I will switch both brain cells on ;)
 
ancient_mariner said:
This is probably a good time to post a final note of thanks for the advice given in the thread, then walk away for a bit to digest things. I'm pretty sure no-one started out intending to belittle or provoke, but sometimes text isn't such a good medium to convey intention, and misunderstandings happen.
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Words are words........ i dont quit!......
 
Box Brownie said:
Sometimes we need a little light relief if things get too tense. Now back to the subject :canon::woot:
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Yes, it became obvious that the OP was more interested in a scrap than finding answer so a bit of lighthearted relief enables one to walk away from the thread. Displacement activity. Though I see from post #169 he is still waving his fists about. TTFN.
 
Solo man said:
Phil V has never begrudged helping a beginner regardless of how many times he has to repeat himself answering the same old questions. Quite why he bothers sometimes is beyond me.
The OP has been given enough answers to be getting on with, so he just needs to break it all down and re-assess what questions, if any, he needs to ask next.
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I've been constantly breaking everything down and constantly re-assessing everything for weeks now, not just since this thread started, and yes, ive come to understand more, realise more etc, and yes, plenty more to ask :) Just need to decide on a starting point, a focal point etc
 
sphexx said:
Yes, it became obvious that the OP was more interested in a scrap than finding answer so a bit of lighthearted relief enables one to walk away from the thread. Displacement activity. Though I see from post #169 he is still waving his fists about. TTFN.
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And you cleary don't know me and know sod all about me, you might let people walk all over you and let others talk to you like s***e, i don't................
 
Phil V said:
Flash.

For smaller subjects you can get away with speedlights.

You'll need stands, brackets, a trigger, personally I'd start with Godox speedlights with an inbuilt receiver, you'll probably be setting them manually, but having the ability to go TTL might be advantageous, I can't recommend models till you've chosen a camera.

For the time being at table top size, you'll probably end up with home made shoots and softening, later you might move into more specialised modifiers.

There's some specialist stuff on the net regarding your particular niche, but the speedlighters handbook is a great introduction to how light works and what you can achieve with speedlights.
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Thanks, most likely be a Nikon, not sure of the model yet, but not going expensive, thinking the ink droplets will have to wait, for now, just going to concentrate on a couple of areas to start with. Cheers :)
 
sisu said:
Im 'open' to all 'ideas' and advice, pointless being here otherwise eh, as im here to learn after all.
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No.. I dont think you are.. sorry...

My Granddad was a mechanic. He used to get rather annoyed by folk in the street, asking for advice, or to borrow tools, or expect him to turn their clapped out 850 Mini into a Ferrari that did 200mph and returned 200mpg by twiddling the carburetor....I'd often bring him a cuppa out to the shed to receive the bombast "They ask you a question! answer it themselves!! THEN call me an effin LIAR!!!"

That's what you are doing here. You don't know enough to know how little you know. You have a chunk of ideas and even more preconceptions; and are rejecting advice you are offered because you don't like it, or think you know better, and insulting the folk offering it....

sisu said:
If it was shot on the old style cameras that used film, PS and LR weren't invented in them days.....is that correct?
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Provided some posts earlier...
GeeJay57 said:
Photographers have been using various darkroom processing techniques, e.g. cropping, dodging, burning, pushing, pulling, etc. pretty much since photography began. Lightroom is literally a digital darkroom. .
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That 'query' you pose had actually been de-bunked before you even asked it! - You are analysing offered advice; cherry picking replies, challenging it, and calling it 'learning'.?!?!?!? - It's a bit like walking into a Hospital cafeteria, and saying "I want to be a Brain Surgeon... what scalpel should I buy?" then arguing with the patient who tells you that they have ever had brain surgery, but can really recommend anti-botics? Or the porter who offers discourse on the merits of saw blades, and the nurse who tells you the important thing is the steralisation.....

You KNOW, a lot of folk that want to do things to a 'professional' as in they get paid for it standard, more actually get paid for it.. dont' start by walking into the hospital cafeteria ad asking any-on and every-one for thier opinions and arguing the toss with them, and complaining that they aren't being shown the 'respect' the Doctors deserve, because they are a chef.... THEY GO TO COLLEGE.. they do the courses, they get the qualification; they LEARN stuff from first principles.. and they DONT argue with the teachers.. they LEARN.

THAT is what I advice you do.... you are NOT a photographer; I DGAS what you 'think' being an 'artist' may or may ot bring to the arena; you do NOT have any expert knowledge let alone qualification in the arena, and you REALLY don't know just how little you know. My 'recommended' start point, is to go to your local college, see what photography courses they offer; get the prospectus; see what 'camera' they expect you to equip yourself with to do the course; and then book a place on it.

Right here, right now, you have ambitions and aspirations to make professional, salable prints, in a niche area of the topic, and are asking what camera and what lens, when you don't EVEN tell us whether you are hoping to take photo's of sharks or minnows, YET authoritatively stating that 'close focus' will be essential!?!?!?!? That you NEED to be able to shoot in both bright and dim light, d arguing the toss with Phil. an actual professional(?!?) over how important lighting is?!?!?

As has been said; photography is 95% in the photographer NOT the equipment.

As an artist you MIGHT appreciate the suggestion its a BIT like suggesting that all you need to be a professional artist is a sable hair paint brush and a smock!

This thread has mushroomed from the first page; where I was going to offer some 'questions' rather than 'advice'.. like "How BIG are these fish or the tanks you want to snap?" And deteriorated into FIVE PAGES of argument and argy bargy, with you getting ever more arrogant that you are NOT being given the answer you want! Being Patronised by folk you have asked patronage of!! And Arguing the TOSS whilst revealing you REALLY haven't got the first clue, and it is ALL far far over your head.

At this stage, you do NOT need a camera; you do NOT need lighting stacks or macro lenses; you do NOT need a computer or a printer, you need a healthy dose of humility; you need a BIG ctrl+alt+Del reset to your presumptions and arrogance; and you need to start, from fresh, at the beginning, as a know-nothing absolute beginner! And park the aspirations and ambitions, of wanting to win the Olympics and what would be the best trainers to buy, before you have even stepped foot on an athletics track!

Five pages of asking questions, answering them yourself and calling contributors liars..... [shakes head] ... good luck.
 
Come on @Teflon-Mike, there's no need to beat around the bush in such a namby-pamby way - tell us what you really think!
 
sisu said:
Thanks again. The print size will vary, framable picture size? Might go larger if everything takes off, maybe poster size etc, but i can deal with that maybe later etc. Trust me, id rather not have to spend a couple of grand, but needs be. I was looking at the Nikon D610 and D750 at first, then got bamboozled with tech spec and lost......... So would i benefit from full frame over cropped sensor? Is the Nikon 105mm macro a good lens? Ive heard good things about one of the tamron macro lenses for Nikon? Thanks for everybodies help and patience by the way, very much appreciated.
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@Phil V and others have already said it, really.

I've had A2 posters used commercially from 16mp prints from an OM-D E-M5 - a m4/3 sensor - but that's pushing it for close viewing or fine art prints of that size.
More than 24mp will require excellent technique - and ideally a tripod - to really get the best out of the increased resolution.

sisu said:
As ive stated, several times, im not going into this blind, ive asked for opinions on cameras and lenses etc, purely, as yet again ive stated several times, i don't want to throw money away, ive clearly stated and asked about why cameras are different prices, ive said id rather not spend thousands 'if not needed', as to me, from what my 'obviously unprofessional, unartistic, and apparently wrong' views are its about firstly, the subject matter and the lighting......... hence being confused about why i should have to spend an arm and a leg on a camera?...... but its very obvious too that a totally wrong, inadequate camera and lens would also, to a certain degree, hamper my efforts...........
As for getting upset at being told my skill is important, haha, i said i have artistic background, but you dismissed that, i cleary said someone with a cheap pencil and a scrap of paper could produce much better art than someone with a million pounds worth of equipment...........You know, i totally respect your expertise, your knowledge, your views and advice, but that gives you no right to talk down and belittle others.
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Fancy cameras perform better in difficult conditions. Almost any camera will work well in a controlled, lit, environment. Some will allow for bigger prints, some will allow for more post processing, some will work better in low light and others will focus faster and take more images of moving subjects. Those aren't going to be your issues though - lighting and technique are going to be your main concerns. Get a basic second hand camera and upgrade when you understand its limitations.
 
sisu said:
I have indeed searched it and book marked several pages thank you. I don't think what im trying to shoot is too specialized etc, afterall, isnt everything, to a degree, just a variation on something else? But, alas, im told by experts its just 'all about the lighting' so surely its as simple as dimming the lights ;) and yet they make it out to be so hard and professional.........yes, theres alot of sarcasm in that, unfortunately indeed its intended, but not towards you my good man. A pont is a point, and points need expressing on deaf ears.
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I've spent 4 years working hard at lighting stuff; I kinda know what I'm doing but I'm still getting some more tuition later this week. Lighting something effectively and creatively can be very, very, tricky. Or it can be very simple. It depends on what you're after. Given that you're trying to create saleable art images of moving subjects in a tank it's probably not going to be simple in your case. It certainly wasn't when I did it.

Anyway.. get something basic and put your efforts into learning lighting. Start with this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Books/Li...500385710&sr=8-1&keywords=light+science+magic
 
Teflon-Mike said:
No.. I dont think you are.. sorry...

My Granddad was a mechanic. He used to get rather annoyed by folk in the street, asking for advice, or to borrow tools, or expect him to turn their clapped out 850 Mini into a Ferrari that did 200mph and returned 200mpg by twiddling the carburetor....I'd often bring him a cuppa out to the shed to receive the bombast "They ask you a question! answer it themselves!! THEN call me an effin LIAR!!!"

That's what you are doing here. You don't know enough to know how little you know. You have a chunk of ideas and even more preconceptions; and are rejecting advice you are offered because you don't like it, or think you know better, and insulting the folk offering it....


Provided some posts earlier...


That 'query' you pose had actually been de-bunked before you even asked it! - You are analysing offered advice; cherry picking replies, challenging it, and calling it 'learning'.?!?!?!? - It's a bit like walking into a Hospital cafeteria, and saying "I want to be a Brain Surgeon... what scalpel should I buy?" then arguing with the patient who tells you that they have ever had brain surgery, but can really recommend anti-botics? Or the porter who offers discourse on the merits of saw blades, and the nurse who tells you the important thing is the steralisation.....

You KNOW, a lot of folk that want to do things to a 'professional' as in they get paid for it standard, more actually get paid for it.. dont' start by walking into the hospital cafeteria ad asking any-on and every-one for thier opinions and arguing the toss with them, and complaining that they aren't being shown the 'respect' the Doctors deserve, because they are a chef.... THEY GO TO COLLEGE.. they do the courses, they get the qualification; they LEARN stuff from first principles.. and they DONT argue with the teachers.. they LEARN.

THAT is what I advice you do.... you are NOT a photographer; I DGAS what you 'think' being an 'artist' may or may ot bring to the arena; you do NOT have any expert knowledge let alone qualification in the arena, and you REALLY don't know just how little you know. My 'recommended' start point, is to go to your local college, see what photography courses they offer; get the prospectus; see what 'camera' they expect you to equip yourself with to do the course; and then book a place on it.

Right here, right now, you have ambitions and aspirations to make professional, salable prints, in a niche area of the topic, and are asking what camera and what lens, when you don't EVEN tell us whether you are hoping to take photo's of sharks or minnows, YET authoritatively stating that 'close focus' will be essential!?!?!?!? That you NEED to be able to shoot in both bright and dim light, d arguing the toss with Phil. an actual professional(?!?) over how important lighting is?!?!?

As has been said; photography is 95% in the photographer NOT the equipment.

As an artist you MIGHT appreciate the suggestion its a BIT like suggesting that all you need to be a professional artist is a sable hair paint brush and a smock!

This thread has mushroomed from the first page; where I was going to offer some 'questions' rather than 'advice'.. like "How BIG are these fish or the tanks you want to snap?" And deteriorated into FIVE PAGES of argument and argy bargy, with you getting ever more arrogant that you are NOT being given the answer you want! Being Patronised by folk you have asked patronage of!! And Arguing the TOSS whilst revealing you REALLY haven't got the first clue, and it is ALL far far over your head.

At this stage, you do NOT need a camera; you do NOT need lighting stacks or macro lenses; you do NOT need a computer or a printer, you need a healthy dose of humility; you need a BIG ctrl+alt+Del reset to your presumptions and arrogance; and you need to start, from fresh, at the beginning, as a know-nothing absolute beginner! And park the aspirations and ambitions, of wanting to win the Olympics and what would be the best trainers to buy, before you have even stepped foot on an athletics track!

Five pages of asking questions, answering them yourself and calling contributors liars..... [shakes head] ... good luck.
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Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, ive received alot of advice and answers that ive thanked people for, its the arrogant t***s that talk people down that i react to, you ought to try and stop 'cherry picking' what posts you read, and stop talking utter s***. Your whole post is judgemental, judging others and myself, im glad you think your high up enough there to own the rights to look down upon others. The one post of mine you bothered with....... 'If it was shot on the old style cameras that used film, PS and LR weren't invented in them days.....is that correct?'...... ends with me actually asking if its correct???? yet you say im ignorant and not listening and f*** knows what else hahahahaha................ Talking of COLLEGE, try going back eh, learn to read, learn English, learn manners and respect, learn how to actually 'talk' to someone..................
 
juggler said:
I've spent 4 years working hard at lighting stuff; I kinda know what I'm doing but I'm still getting some more tuition later this week. Lighting something effectively and creatively can be very, very, tricky. Or it can be very simple. It depends on what you're after. Given that you're trying to create saleable art images of moving subjects in a tank it's probably not going to be simple in your case. It certainly wasn't when I did it.

Anyway.. get something basic and put your efforts into learning lighting. Start with this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Books/Li...500385710&sr=8-1&keywords=light+science+magic
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Cheers :D
 
Dave70D said:
Hi Simon, I hope you can take some of the great advice from the good members here, and don`t worry about the playground comments (y)
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Thanks, and yes ive received alot of good advice from good people, but like you say, unfortunately a lot of very childish down talking remarks, but hey, im certainly far from worried about it/them ;D That childish behaviour stopped affecting me when i was about 10 yrs old, but if they have nothing better to do than give to me a laugh then who im i to not oblige and smile along :)
 
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