What NOT to do as a Photographer!!

mjScall said:
So how does this not apply to the soldier who deliberately knocked a man down when he could have easily avoided him?
Click to expand...

The Guardsman probably has instructions to continue regardless.The point is there should be something in place to safeguard against vulnerable people being trampled - whether that is erecting barriers to keep the public separate, tasking the police (as they do at Windsor) or someone else to ensure the route ahead is clear, instructing the Guards to shout 'make way' in plenty of time, instructing the guards to halt if they encounter an obstacle, or another solution altogether, there ought to be something in place.

Not sure where people waving toy guns comes into this debate though...
 
Paul Griffin said:
The Guardsman probably has instructions to continue regardless.The point is there should be something in place to safeguard against vulnerable people being trampled - whether that is erecting barriers to keep the public separate, tasking the police (as they do at Windsor) or someone else to ensure the route ahead is clear, instructing the Guards to shout 'make way' in plenty of time, instructing the guards to halt if they encounter an obstacle, or another solution altogether, there ought to be something in place.

Not sure where people waving toy guns comes into this debate though...
Click to expand...

There is....

The toy gun is an example of an unfolding situation. It could be real. Guardsman / soldiers will react to the threat and eliminate it. That's their job. What if that 'photographer' had a vest on containing explosives ?

No Guardsman or Soldier is ever going to break rank, not without order. The NCO shouting 'make way' had a completely different viewpoint but he could of halted the squad if need be. You keep going.

What is not apparent in the video is that the troops will have been escorted by the Metropolitan Police who clear the route and stop traffic at junctions. They are directly ahead of the marching troops in the same column and also back up the rear.

This idiot has completely misread the situation or chose to ignore it. He is completely in the wrong and lucky he wasn't arrested for obstruction. However, it wasn't a deliberate act or intentional ( just plane stupid ) so not in the public interest to prosecute or waste any further police time. The Marching troops had right of way so they are not to blame.

He may be bruised and battered and lost his pride but the Guardsman acted with dignity in the finest military traditions and did his duty.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
Are you see seriously suggesting the Queens Guard go around the obstacle. That's madness, marching troops have right of way. Crown Duty.!
Click to expand...

Of course! Why is it madness? It's a very simple response which would result in the minimum of damage and risk. I'm struggling to understand how anyone can fail to see this, Crown Duty or otherwise!

Blank_Canvas said:
Military public duties are hazardous at the best of times, in particular in the current climate. You have seconds to judge a situation, a threat and make a decision. If you've never served in HM Forces then this will be probably lost on you.
Click to expand...

I have never served in HM Forces so this is all lost on me. If I had seconds to judge that situation though I'm pretty sure I could figure out what needed to be done for the best outcome and act accordingly. As it is, everyone's looking a bit stupid with this result.

Paul Griffin said:
The Guardsman probably has instructions to continue regardless.The point is there should be something in place to safeguard against vulnerable people being trampled - whether that is erecting barriers to keep the public separate, tasking the police (as they do at Windsor) or someone else to ensure the route ahead is clear, instructing the Guards to shout 'make way' in plenty of time, instructing the guards to halt if they encounter an obstacle, or another solution altogether, there ought to be something in place.

Not sure where people waving toy guns comes into this debate though...
Click to expand...

Exactly. He may well have orders to carry on regardless, but if so, those are stupid orders. If they want to jeopardise civilians just to show how good they are at marching it only serves to justify my decision not to join HM Forces.
 
TimmyG said:
Of course! Why is it madness? It's a very simple response which would result in the minimum of damage and risk. I'm struggling to understand how anyone can fail to see this, Crown Duty or otherwise!



I have never served in HM Forces so this is all lost on me. If I had seconds to judge that situation though I'm pretty sure I could figure out what needed to be done for the best outcome and act accordingly. As it is, everyone's looking a bit stupid with this result.



Exactly. He may well have orders to carry on regardless, but if so, those are stupid orders. If they want to jeopardise civilians just to show how good they are at marching it only serves to justify my decision not to join HM Forces.
Click to expand...

As I thought completely lost on you !
 
You don't need to have served in the forces to have an opinion on this. That's just an attempt to dismiss him without having to tackle his arguments.
 
Paul Griffin said:
You don't need to have served in the forces to have an opinion on this. That's just an attempt to dismiss him without having to tackle his arguments.
Click to expand...

No you don't, but you have a different mindset if you have served and a greater understanding from the military perspective. The support for this Guardsman on military forums has been phenomenal. People are entitled to their opinion of course and that's healthy.
 
I seriously think that if a small child had stepped out in front of them then they would have marched around the kid!
 
Raincloud said:
I seriously think that if a small child had stepped out in front of them then they would have marched around the kid!
Click to expand...

No doubt, most Soldiers, Sailors and Airman have a soft spot for kids, many are parents themselves...... it's stupid adults they dislike !


 
A bit more info from the Daily Mail (so I'll leave it to you to decide how accurate it is)...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-moment-tourist-gets-barged-way-soldiers.html

Turns out the Tourist is a Semi-professional photographer, and he stopped to hand over his equipment to his wife because he needed to go to the loo. In all the noise and distractions he just never heard the soldiers coming. He laughs off the incident, and takes full responsibility for it although he himself is ex-Military so you can't expect him to be thinking logically ;)
 
Just reminds me of work to be honest. Can be carrying the largest heaviest box on earth and people will still stare at you blocking your way like your casper and can pass right through them. People, especially tourists, are a dumb breed.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
GTF outta the way......div

or get squeshed

might be an unreasonable request if it were tourist v joe public, but it isn't, its pleb v the defense of the crown, if you're gonna be any good at defending the crown you're gonna have to take it seriously, that means not letting plebs obstruct you from carrying out your defense of the crown, there's only a problem when plebs don't take it equally seriously which I find borderline disrespectful.
its no different from doing what the plod tells you to do, to not comply with plods instruction is obstructing him/her from carrying out his/her duty, I dunno why this is even a thread.
 
Walking into someone is in no way defending anyone.I can not believe that this ridiculous stomping around by men in fancy dress is taken serious in the modern times and that they feel they have a right to walk into people in this way. He was not defending anyone he was taking park in a ceremonial tradition.
One day that soldier will do it to someone who will happily knock him back and put him on his backside. And I am sure many will tell me how that would be a bad idea to do that to this wonderful super solder but the reality is many would and will.
 
asphotographymk said:
Walking into someone is in no way defending anyone.I can not believe that this ridiculous stomping around by men in fancy dress is taken serious in the modern times and that they feel they have a right to walk into people in this way. He was not defending anyone he was taking park in a ceremonial tradition.
One day that soldier will do it to someone who will happily knock him back and put him on his backside. And I am sure many will tell me how that would be a bad idea to do that to this wonderful super solder but the reality is many would and will.
Click to expand...

It's never going to happen, you're deluded ! particularly when he's he is with his troop. Most soldiers are pretty good at putting people on the deck when they need to. It happened to me when I was a young solider. Somebody with a similar cocky attitude to you thought they would get one over on me they were soon kissing the tarmac.

In this case the route had already been cleared by police. Marching troops have right of way. Contrary to belief this is a duty - they are about change guard. This is all about protecting the Monarch. You show you ignorance by not understanding this.

Like it not, the country is full of tradition be it military, criminal justice or Morris dancing. if you don't like living here then go and live in another country !!!
 
Blank_Canvas said:
...

Like it not, the country is full of tradition be it military, criminal justice or Morris dancing. if you don't like living here then go and live in another country !!!
Click to expand...

I don't like it. I find the idea of being a subject abhorrent, the idea that someone is superior to me as a birthright in 2015 should be a joke. But it's not. Even if I lived in a foreign land I would still be a subject to our Monarch, I would have to become a citizen there first then give up my British citizenship, it's a lot of hassle for something that's just a niggle (and doesn't get in the way of my everyday life).

However, I do agree that the guy was a nob. The difference between you and I is that I think he'd have still been a nob if he'd been run over by a gay pride float. He was purposely in the wrong place, through ignorance and a sense of entitlement (speaking of a sense of entitlement - see para 1).
 
I can tell you know someone like me would put the average solder on the deck with ease. That is not about being cocky that is about being much better trained in such situations. As I said someone was bound to come back with some kind of super solder type comment but the reality is very very different. Would the whole troop then get involved, I am sure they would but that does not change the fact. I have tested my skills many times against many soldiers both one to one I'm a ring, on the mats in training and on the streets in group situations a and know many much better than me. This is actually the biggest problem with squadys(and ex as it happens) they thing they are indestructible and think they can get away with what ever they like. The reality is much different and many would stand up to them.

This has nothing to do with protecting the monarch at all.not one thing. It is a show, and one that has no place in modern society. Not agreeing with such actions does not mean I should live in another country, I am more than happy to live in this one thank you and continue to disagree with outdated traditions and arrogent tools who think they are indestructible just because they have a fancy outfit.
 
Last edited:
Ed Sutton said:
Don't be silly. :D

It's not soldiers in red tunics who protect Mrs Windsor, it's the men wearing suits and sunglasses. ;)
Click to expand...
Exactly Ed. These silly costumes and feet stomping tools have nothing to do with protecting the queen (who deserves little protection in my opinion but that is a different matter.) As it happens I used to train with a royal protection worker and he was a civilian.
 
Phil V said:
I don't like it. I find the idea of being a subject abhorrent, the idea that someone is superior to me as a birthright in 2015 should be a joke. But it's not. Even if I lived in a foreign land I would still be a subject to our Monarch, I would have to become a citizen there first then give up my British citizenship, it's a lot of hassle for something that's just a niggle (and doesn't get in the way of my everyday life).

However, I do agree that the guy was a nob. The difference between you and I is that I think he'd have still been a nob if he'd been run over by a gay pride float. He was purposely in the wrong place, through ignorance and a sense of entitlement (speaking of a sense of entitlement - see para 1).
Click to expand...
I don't disagree here. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time and that makes him a bit of a div. The fact is the stomping fancy dress guys who are nothing more than human beings could have used some common sense and avoided him.

I also agree that in modern times someone is above another ia crazy. Many people are standing up to such a fact now and that feeling is growing.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
So tell me your level of training, style, experience ?
Click to expand...
My personal training and experince is comprehensive but includes many years working at a high level as an instructor of close quarters combat and realistic self defense techniques, many of the people i was teaching included police and military. That combined with around 30 professional muay thia fights, 10 MMA fights and more grappling tournaments than i can count lets just say i am pretty experienced. And i know many peop[le much better than me. The fact is someone will always be better than you and that goes for these clowns in fancy dress aswell.It also goes for me, maybe said guy is better trained... maybe not.

Most militaries teach a watered down version of, bjj , wrestling , boxing , kickboxing , thai , etc. Nothing polished enough as it is a system is designed to teach tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands in basic hand to hand combat NOT one on one combat againts a truly trained individual. Would they beat me in a gun fight, YES. In a situation in the middle of London I would happy bet on myself.
 
Last edited:
The so called rights and wrongs, and breast beating aside, I'm fairly sure this situation is far from new. The soldiers know in advance that tourists and crowds dither about. Especially with no barrier. I expect the soldiers use several measures to avoid a problem. For example for the individual soldier to shout. This would also bring the problem to the attention of his superior. I could not hear a shout before the collision. Maybe the man was not initially in the way of the particular soldier. And he jumped when he saw them or heard a shout. People often move the wrong way.
In any case, a collision is counterproductive for the troop.
 
Last edited:
asphotographymk said:
My personal training and experince is comprehensive but includes many years working at a high level as an instructor of close quarters combat and realistic self defense techniques, many of the people i was teaching included police and military. That combined with around 30 professional muay thia fights, 10 MMA fights and more grappling tournaments than i can count lets just say i am pretty experienced. And i know many peop[le much better than me. The fact is someone will always be better than you and that goes for these clowns in fancy dress aswell.It also goes for me, maybe said guy is better trained... maybe not.

Most militaries teach a watered down version of, bjj , wrestling , boxing , kickboxing , thai , etc. Nothing polished enough as it is a system is designed to teach tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands in basic hand to hand combat NOT one on one combat againts a truly trained individual. Would they beat me in a gun fight, YES. In a situation in the middle of London I would happy bet on myself.
Click to expand...

Actually, the best form of defence is to defuse the situation and avoid it all together. There is no such thing as an average soldier, the soldiers in your class are just extending their knowledge. That's what they do. Many go to classes in their spare time and on sports afternoons.Many are well versed in grappling snd many have been taught by Jamie O'keefe. I dare say many of the people better than you were ex military (ex SF etc).
 
Blank_Canvas said:
Actually, the best form of defence is to defuse the situation and avoid it all together. There is no such thing as an average soldier, the soldiers in your class are just extending their knowledge. That's what they do. Many go to classes in their spare time and on sports afternoons.Many are well versed in grappling snd many have been taught by Jamie O'keefe. I dare say many of the people better than you were ex military (ex SF etc).
Click to expand...

Like i said i new some super solider would come along and tell me how amazing squaddies are and how they are unbeatable. Having fought and beat many serving and ex soliders i know this is not the case.This goes for both in the ring and on the street in my more reckless youth and years working the doors (can i add many of the doorman i worked with are ex military and most are nothing but shirt fillers). Almost all i have trained with are nothing more than very average fighters. Better than the untrained but nothing more than most would learn in the first year of a quality rounded martial art. As for those better than me being ex squadies.. Not any that I can think of, most have been full time fighters in some shape or form for their adult life. Not a single one of my coaches and training partners has ever served.

Again i will say this, i am sure some army types are great fighters, becasue they have trained to be not becasue the military has trained them. My point is someone s always better than you, and someone is always willing to take it a step further. One day this tool will bump into that someone and get knocked on his backside.
 
Last edited:
asphotographymk said:
Like i said i new some super solider would come along and tell me how amazing squaddies are and how they are unbeatable. Having fought and beat many serving and ex soliders i know this is not the case.This goes for both in the ring and on the street in my more reckless youth and years working the doors (can i add many of the doorman i worked with are ex military and most are nothing but shirt fillers). Almost all i have trained with are nothing more than very average fighters. Better than the untrained but nothing more than most would learn in the first year of a quality rounded martial art. As for those better than me being ex squadies.. Not any that I can think of, most have been full time fighters in some shape or form for their adult life. Not a single one of my coaches and training partners has ever served.

Again i will say this, i am sure some army types are great fighters, becasue they have trained to be not becasue the military has trained them. My point is someone s always better than you, and someone is always willing to take it a step further. One day this tool will bump into that someone and get knocked on his backside.
Click to expand...

Turgid beyond belief !
 
Phil V said:
However, I do agree that the guy was a nob. The difference between you and I is that I think he'd have still been a nob if he'd been run over by a gay pride float. He was purposely in the wrong place, through ignorance and a sense of entitlement (speaking of a sense of entitlement - see para 1).
Click to expand...
Where did you get that idea from Phil? Are you saying he wanted to block the march? And what sort of entitlement are we talking about? If he felt entitled to be able to stand on the street among a group of other tourists, then why shouldn't he?

Look, my purpose for commenting on this thread was not to have a go at the military (personally I think we are very lucky in the UK to have, for the most part, a very professional and well regarded military. It's not the same in a lot of countries). Rather it was to combat the torrent of abuse the tourist has been getting for reasons I can't figure out. As I see if, he just wasn't looking the right way or been as aware of what was going on around him as he could have been. That could be any one of us. I don't think that makes him nob. He's also an ex RAF Engineer, a career where I imagine you would need to be on the ball a great deal of your time, especially when avoiding incoming fighter jets; so I think the woman who called him a "stupid man" was also very quick to judge.

I can well imagine myself in that position (although with not such a big camera and lens), and I'd be pretty p*ssed off if a military unit went and walked right into me without concern. I may well not realise what is happening and lash out in self defence (although I have no doubt the sight of all those guns would make me sh*t my pants and beg for mercy). Alternatively I may not be able to react and smack my face on the floor, no doubt in an attempt to prevent damage to my precious gear. If the soldier is doing he duty by purposely disregarding him being there, then something needs to change. As a civilian we have a duty of care to others, and that should surely form the foundation of all other duties performed by the military when they are out and about in public places.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
Turgid beyond belief !
Click to expand...
The only thing that would be pompous is the idea that becasue someone is from a military background they are anything more than a human being. The fact is the opposite. These people even when in a fancy costume are still just people, nothing more.
 
Last edited:
TimmyG said:
I can well imagine myself in that position (although with not such a big camera and lens), and I'd be pretty p*ssed off if a military unit went and walked right into me without concern. I may well not realise what is happening and lash out in self defence (although I
Click to expand...
Very well put. And possibly put much better than I did. One fday doing this someone will react defensively.

The attitude that a soldier has more right to walk than any other human being without any regard for civilian safety to me is a ridiculous idea and if that is a fact it needs to change.
 
This is a big fuss over nothing,the silly bugger wasn't looking at what he was doing and got knock into,probably happen a million time a day all over the world,but because this story gone viral we have to make something bigger out of it,than what really happen :(
 
TimmyG said:
@simonblue I don't thnk we are making it out to be something bigger. Regardless of it going viral, it got posted in a discussion forum; so we are discussing it.
Click to expand...

If it had never appear on the internet or not gone viral ?,to me as i have said just another something out of nothing story,if you want to discuss and even fall out with each other over it, go ahead,all yours :D
 
TimmyG said:
@simonblue dont worry. We'll be fine. There was a bit of posturing earlier on but nothing that couldn't be sorted out by a quick scuffle behind the bike sheds at lunch time.
Click to expand...

It's a shame it had to result in someone kissing the tarmac though. Oh dear, how sad never mind !
 
Young men can be silly, soldiers or not. Surely it would have been better for the soldier to shout a warning in good time rather than after someone had barged him? I reckon testosterone and pride trumped good sense here. They wanted to teach him a lesson and it could easily have been prevented had they wanted in a perfectly civilised way.

The mob mentality is as unpleasant when displayed by those either with or without a uniform.

Hope they're better and more disciplined at fighting than they are at walking down the road ;)
 
Last edited:
Quality comedy thread. (y)

I'm sure the Queen would have been put in grave danger if someone had said "excuse me" (or bellowed "make way!" a few seconds earlier than they did). God forbid a guardsman should take a small step to left. Can you imagine? The f*****g Commonwealth might just have collapsed right there and then.

Being employed in a ridiculous job doesn't make it OK to barge into people in the street. It makes you just as obnoxious as a baker or candlestick-maker would be if they deliberately barged into someone in the street.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top