What NOT to do as a Photographer!!

Jayst84 said:
It's not that big a deal, it was someone bumping into someone in the street. But people saying, he works in the military, so it's OK, in fact it was the other person's fault. Really? There is no reasonable reason for that. Pomp and circumstance isn't a reasonable reason.
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Exactly/ I guess this is what has got my back up. And is exactly what gets my back up with soldiers in general. Who cares what job someone does, they are still a human being.
 
ChasG said:
Returning to the OP

What was the soldier expected to do?

Break right and enter the crowd?
Break left and crash into his mates?
Stop and cause a pile up?

IMHO as a non soldier/gym rat softie he did the right thing.
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I tried to explain the reasoning why this happened as I agree it doesn't look right at first glance, but once you know the background then you have a little more understanding.
It's why the photographer said in the article that as an ex military person he was embarrassed more than anything.
 
skysh4rk said:
So do we also blame the cyclist in the video linked below for not taking basic steps to get out of the way and barging into a guy in the middle of the street while on the job?

http://petapixel.com/2015/07/01/man...der-at-british-national-cycling-championship/
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Seeing the world through a small viewfinder with a long lens and losing all sense of real world action. Unfortunately you see it in rallying too, often leading to deaths and injuries. In this case both were very lucky.
 
asphotographymk said:
Exactly/ I guess this is what has got my back up. And is exactly what gets my back up with soldiers in general. Who cares what job someone does, they are still a human being.
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Having spent two tours working in the hospital at Camp Bastion, I can assure you that soldiers are certainly human beings; very much flesh and blood. Some of the human beings we dealt with there are the same human beings who carry out ceremonial duties in London. Of course, some of our patients can't march any more, but those still alive are no less proud of being what you call 'some tit in a stupid hat'.

It sounds as if the only soldiers you've met have given you a poor impression; that's a shame, but I think it's unfair of you to tar all of them with the same brush. I'll declare an interest - the lovely Mrs (Major) Anubis is a soldier, and I am quite certain that she isn't at all the sort of person you describe. I am just a veteran, but still working within the military, and whilst I have certainly come across some arrogant, aggressive soldiers, I've also come across exactly the same sort of civilians. Hardly surprising, really - the armed forces reflects the community it recruits from, and which it serves.
 
I admire the men and women of the forces and am grateful for the work they do. However, I really find the "macho" claptrap being spouted out by so many posters here to be anything but admirable and pretty pathetic really. I have had a look around some of the threads on this forum the last couple of days and sadly there's an element of strutting testosterone that I haven't seen on many other internet forums. I'm not sure what attract such insecure people to this particular one.

Re the military, what some people are forgetting is that their job is to follow the orders of the government in defence of the UK not to behave like any teenage gang member after a few pints on Saturday night. I'm not saying any soldier we've discussed here has done that but a fair few posters seem to be suggesting that they should do :(
 
Byker28i said:
I tried to explain the reasoning why this happened as I agree it doesn't look right at first glance, but once you know the background then you have a little more understanding.
It's why the photographer said in the article that as an ex military person he was embarrassed more than anything.
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I read your detailed explanation and thank you for it. I wasn't aware of the boundaries those soldiers operate in when marching, but it comfirms what had been stated earlier.
Byker28i said:
How did I miss this? There's some quality willy waving on this thread.

For the person who said the soldiers are just ceremonial, there have been a number of instances where troops on parade have broken to provide assistance with intruders. On one video shown by blank canvas, you'll see a guardsman stepping in towards the intruder. Certainly down the mall will be additional servicemen lining the route for exactly these reasons and they are instructed as such. There's a significant briefing for these occasions.

As to the 'if they did it to me I'd put him on the floor comments', I doubt you would, or if you did then there are protocols and procedures in place for this also. There are a number of his colleagues behind him who at which point would stop and detain. Whilst not loaded the rifles will have bayonets unsheathed.

Ceremonial duties are exactly that, ceremonial, for which you are drilled, for hours to be in perfect step, time, to respond to the drill sergeants commands.
The only person permitted to deviate the troops or say anything would have been the drill sergeant. That training in ingrained, drilled in over hours and hours of work to get that perfect timing. It's this that someone who hasn't been in the forces probably doesn't understand, which is why I'm trying to explain.

The soldier couldn't have halted. Each move of a squad is controlled with a prewarning and then the move command. A halt by the soldier would have everyone behind piling in like a comedy moment. In an ideal world a swerve may have been appropriate, but the person marching close behind is generally unsighted (especially with bearskins). As such the soldier took a reasonable response in the only way possible to move the person out of the way of oncoming troops by I guess he thought glancing a blow whilst maintaining the required dignified marching pose. Only trouble is it turned into more of a barge.

Bearing in mind he had a few seconds to decide, not the benefit of sitting at a keyboard, pouring over pedantry. I'm sure that decision was taken as it was a man. A woman, OAP, child may have solicited a swerve as an option.

IMHO, having performed ceremonial duties.
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I think I do understand it more now although I'm not sure if you are saying the drill sergeant should have acted sooner or the soldier shouldn't have been quite so aggressive with his "barge." Most likely it was a combination of both. I am still slightly bemused there seems to be a lack of direction for the individual men in such circumstances (you are saying there is an unwritten rule; if it's female, elderly or infant you should avoid if at all possible. Anyone else, keep going).
 
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Byker28i said:
Seeing the world through a small viewfinder with a long lens and losing all sense of real world action. Unfortunately you see it in rallying too, often leading to deaths and injuries. In this case both were very lucky.
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Agreed. I managed to watch the video in the end and crikey he came up fast! The photog certainly wasn't expecting that and no doubt failed to judge the distance. I'm not sure how soon the cyclist saw him though, he seemed to be head down but no doubt didn't expect the photog to just stay standing there if he did see him at the last moment. An accident which could have been much worse no doubt, but I think the blame rests firmly with the photog on this one.
 
TimmyG said:
I read your detailed explanation and thank you for it. I wasn't aware of the boundaries those soldiers operate in when marching, but it comfirms what had been stated earlier.

I think I do understand it more now although I'm not sure if you are saying the drill sergeant should have acted sooner or the soldier shouldn't have been quite so aggressive with his "barge." Most likely it was a combination of both. I am still slightly bemused there seems to be a lack of direction for the individual men in such circumstances (you are saying there is an unwritten rule; if it's female, elderly or infant you should avoid if at all possible. Anyone else, keep going).
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Nope there's no unwritten rule, just that I doubt there would have been a barge if it had been an elderly person or child, however rather than the first person, the unsighted person behind would have collided.

The blame if any beyond the embarrassed bloke in the way, is with whoever is in control of the parade, they didn't react in time to the obstruction, although there was a shout. It's effectively a moving vehicle which takes a couple of seconds to stop. It's 5 paces at best, the preparation command (squad etc) to let them know a command is coming, then a step thinking time, then the command. Halt would be given on the right foot, so then it's a full step with the left and stop on the right.

There really isn't enough video of the collision to see exactly what happened, just some seem to be making significant assumptions to support their view. You can't see it it was a aggressive barge, all you can see is there was some sort of contact and the photographer stumbles briefly back into shot.

http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article10325055.ece/alternates/w620/queens-guard-2.jpg

As this shot shows, the guardsman has already moved significantly out of position.
 
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TimmyG said:
Agreed. I managed to watch the video in the end and crikey he came up fast! The photog certainly wasn't expecting that and no doubt failed to judge the distance. I'm not sure how soon the cyclist saw him though, he seemed to be head down but no doubt didn't expect the photog to just stay standing there if he did see him at the last moment. An accident which could have been much worse no doubt, but I think the blame rests firmly with the photog on this one.
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If the road cobbled and they are riding on the smother edging? Seems to be quite a few riding the edges. As the the cyclist, like rallying they are used to people jumping out the way at the last minute.
 
The Queen's guard are just obnoxious plebs. Was this incident on her grounds? Is the Soldier a mindless robot? Take a step around the guy who can't see you ffs ... they are also supposed to shout ahead to warn anything in their path ... this time they did not.
 
You can't be sure from the video that he did not shout. Are you suggesting he bumped into him deliberately? If so, for what purpose?
 
ianp5a said:
You can't be sure from the video that he did not shout. Are you suggesting he bumped into him deliberately? If so, for what purpose?
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yes I am. If you read the photographer's story, he says the soldier did not shout. And .. because they're arrogant/high and mighty, that's why. Do they lose respect once they put on that uniform? Bit of manners wouldn't go astray.
 
I've only read the first and last page in this thread, but i get the gist of both 'arguments'.
I'll hedge a bet that if the tog was an OAP with a stick/frame, or a small child the soldier would have taken avoiding action, so yes, if pushed, i'd have to agree the soldier was acting a bit aggressively!
Isn't it a case of common sense???
 
It's sad to see the total lack of respect for those fellow human beings who are in a job with authorities. Quite telling for what is going on around us, people expecting a soldier on official duty to say please and thank you? Seriously?

Bring back national service I think a few people need to understand what it takes to have some discipline and work as a team.

When in my former platoon someone told me to duck you do it, you don't ask questions. You operate as one as a team and trust each other.

A little respect wouldn't go amiss. At least the chap who was at the centre of this can see that.

Very sad to read some of the comments in here, calling them clowns in fancy dress? Really, seriously? Then again the same kind of comments are on the daily mail.
 
Alan Clogwyn said:
Just reminds me of work to be honest. Can be carrying the largest heaviest box on earth and people will still stare at you blocking your way whilst like your casper and can pass right through the. People, especially tourists, are a dumb breed.
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Yep. In my work have had people ignoring the tape cordon, and starting across an area they can see and hear is dangerous.
 
what is the protocol in these cases for the guardsman? I would assume on my very little knowledge on this that they are in a formal march, it would be not to stop unless instructed to and that goes for breaking formation as well?
 
I tend to anti-establishment views myself but the explanations as to why the soldier behaved as he did, their training, the way the march operates, and all the other details, all sounded perfectly reasonable. Then someone chimes back in with the anti-military cobblers and off it goes again. Those who have their own agenda won't be swayed by facts.
 
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I can say from a position of being one of the soldiers in a parade where this has happened,

that:

1. a female / old lady / child would have been moved / picked up / repositioned (as applicable) without breaking step if possible - although this may mean they the obstruction still ends up on the floor - just softer.....

bear in mind, the soldier only has the use of one arm ( the other is carrying his weapon - & NO ADULT MALE will ever get near that) ....

2. Adult males are 'usually' a lot larger' to just reposition.
 
& I'm anti-establishment now.....lol

Ex-Military just call it Civilian
 
And are
Diving Pete said:
I can say from a position of being one of the soldiers in a parade where this has happened,
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And are you any of the following: "Arrogant, Obnoxious pleb, mindless robot, high and mighty, aggressive, in a ridiculous job ,think you are invincible, a monkey in a costume and a tit in a stupid hat" by any chance?
 
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ianp5a said:
And are
And are you any of the following by any chance?: "Arrogant, Obnoxious pleb, mindless robot, high and mighty, aggressive, in a ridiculous job ,think you are invincible, a monkey in a costume,..."
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Not any more, read his follow up post. He's ex-military :p

(Please note, I make this post for humour purposes. It was too good an opportunity to let slip. I do not subscribe to the idea of all military personal being labelled as any of the above, and I hope you will take this into account before storming my house and carting me off to "The Tower" in the middle of the night).
 
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