Working for Agencies - making my first step, advice please

KIPAX said:
Inverters are cheap enough... but you ahve to have the engine running ... bit dodgy on the gearstick when your using this that and the other in car reaching over.. not much room ... you ahve to be in driving seat with engine running....ist the law :)
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I'll make sure I park well away from any Rolls Royces lol
 
Well game two went a bit pear shaped. All was good before a ball was kicked. Cameras working, test shot sent via FTP as I couldn't get SFTP working. No sweat just use FTP and see if I can get SFTP working later.

I was trying to send directly vie SFTP so the papers got the images straight away. I spent too much time wrestling with it at the game and I still haven't managed to work it out through Photomechanic, Filezilla works though so no idea what is going wrong. On top of that I realised I had forgot my mouse. I hate trackpads but thought it would slow me down but I'd manage, I was wrong. 15-20 mins in and on a rainy night I went to FTP the images to the Laptop but not working. Reset connection on phone and cameras but still not working well. I had the card reader so started a manual ingest. As I was now doing things through a disk rather than folder my PM settings were wrong and it was ingesting all files including all RAW files and not putting the IPTC Stationary on the files, renaming etc. I managed to get a few files sent off while still wrestling with the SFTP but at this point I was in full panic mode. As the game wore on the weather worsened and my ICap never had the front cover on. Game ended and the thought of a warm car was good. That was until I dried off the laptop and the trackpad was playing up. Much drying and pressing on the trackpad resulted in a setting changed and the mouse appearing as some kind of scroll bar. At this point I knew all my efforts were likely to make things worse so I made my apologies to the agency and set off home. Managed to get some files away when at home but it was past deadline so they won't be used. It was more practice though and certainly put my feet firmly back on the ground.

So a disastrous second outing and more lessons learned. I've worked on the ingest from card and I might just stick with that and take one wireless step out the loop. No point beating myself up and the support from the Agency and some of the guys that work there and one that attended the game has been great. I really do appreciate the kind words, help and support from there and on these pages. Hopefully another game at the weekend and some of the learned lessons put successfully into practice. Gallery here

The calm before the storm
Tony Macaroni Stadium by Simon Wootton, on Flickr
 
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I said it in answer to your other posts and will say it again.. dont see the point wiht the ftp when mem card is quick enough... lock'n'load method makes it ultra quick

one thing i do remeber when i started out.. once somehtign goes wrong it just gets worse as you panick... happened to me a couple of times i still remeber haha
 
KIPAX said:
I said it in answer to your other posts and will say it again.. dont see the point wiht the ftp when mem card is quick enough... lock'n'load method makes it ultra quick

one thing i do remeber when i started out.. once somehtign goes wrong it just gets worse as you panick... happened to me a couple of times i still remeber haha
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I think I'll go that route now. I'll order another Panic is probably a decent description and once it started to go wrong it is easy to lose focus. I'll get there and I doubt this will be the last disastrous night. Hopefully, I'll have a few good ones to talk about too. Do you ingest all the images or just the ones you have tagged in camera
 
wookie6262 said:
I think I'll go that route now. I'll order another Panic is probably a decent description and once it started to go wrong it is easy to lose focus. I'll get there and I doubt this will be the last disastrous night. Hopefully, I'll have a few good ones to talk about too. Do you ingest all the images or just the ones you have tagged in camera
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Lock n Load .... lock the images in camera and PM will just load those and only the JPG (why on earth are you shooting raw as well?) ... its an ultra fast fail safe system :)
 
KIPAX said:
Lock n Load .... lock the images in camera and PM will just load those and only the JPG (why on earth are you shooting raw as well?) ... its an ultra fast fail safe system :)
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I have always shot RAW so hard to not do it. The Jpegs out of camera have been more than enough though so that will probably stop quite soon. Thanks as ever. I would probably get there by myself but it doesn't half help having people who really know what they are doing pointing me in the right direction. Do you have any idea on SFPT from Photomechanic and why that wouldn't work
 
wookie6262 said:
I have always shot RAW so hard to not do it. The Jpegs out of camera have been more than enough though so that will probably stop quite soon. Thanks as ever. I would probably get there by myself but it doesn't half help having people who really know what they are doing pointing me in the right direction. Do you have any idea on SFPT from Photomechanic and why that wouldn't work
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I have never used ftp from photomechanic as i dont use ftp.. all my pics are sent by email ... email templates ...works for me :)
 
The FTP engine in PM is one of it's weakest points. It can fail for a number of reasons - hence why I always use something else.

If you are going to insist on using wireless FTP from the camera to your laptop, then at least have manual ingest set up and prepared, although like Tony I tend to use the card method.
 
DemiLion said:
The FTP engine in PM is one of it's weakest points. It can fail for a number of reasons - hence why I always use something else.

If you are going to insist on using wireless FTP from the camera to your laptop, then at least have manual ingest set up and prepared, although like Tony I tend to use the card method.
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Not easy covering every base when you are learning but I should have had that sorted or at least been able to see what I was doing wrong quick enough to resolve it. As Kipax said once it started going wrong it went very wrong. I'm basically at the stage where you or Kipax could send me for a tin of tartan paint. I know how to take an image and I have worked pretty hard to understand FTP and IPTC but none of the sending and keywording has been practiced enough and definitely not enough in the heat of a game or without a solid internet connection. That is my fault but I never expected this to happen so quickly or I would have factored that in. Fortunately, he chap that runs the Agency has been very supportive and understanding as have a few others at the Agency.

I have spent the last few hours playing about with manually ingesting from a card and it is what I will do the next game. I am not insisting on anything, I tried a way that works for others and it worked very well once and not well at all the next time. I'll take my card reader next time and will also buy another reader and mouse just for the camera bag. By far the biggest issue last night was the missing mouse. Even if my trackpad worked perfectly it would take me twice as long to edit and keyword images.

I also had some help with the SFTP settings so I may have that resolved too. What alternative do you use for FTP. I got filezilla and that works well but workflow wise it would be far easier through PM.
 
wookie6262 said:
I also had some help with the SFTP settings so I may have that resolved too. What alternative do you use for FTP. I got filezilla and that works well but workflow wise it would be far easier through PM.
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I do ahve the odd customer that requires ftp and I use filezilla for that... but its rare i need ftp
 
Game 3 today and I have to admit I was a bit nervous when heading through to Fir Park for the Scottish Cup match between Motherwell and Morton. Tuesday's meltdown was fresh in the mind but I had put the work in refreshing my workflow and taking on the excellent advice of @KIPAX and @DemiLion. The plan was to lock and load with a card reader used to get the images from the cameras to Laptop. This worked flawlessly so thanks to the wise men of Sports togs for making me see the error of my ways.

The game was 0-0 and went into extra time. Motherwell ran out 2-1 winners with all three goals scored down the other end. Enjoyed my day and did ok when the action came my way. The main learning point today was making sure you lock all the images you want so they are available to edit and send. Looking back through I missed half a dozen, at least, that were better than some I sent. Time management is massive when shooting and having to send through the game and at half time, as is when to swap cameras, and I have still not got the hang of when to shoot, when to edit and when to review so you can lock the images. I am seeing improvements though and that is important. The main thing is I am hugely enjoying the challenge and if that continues I am sure I can get to the point where I feel I am doing games justice in the images I am taking and most importantly capturing the story. Gallery here


Event - Location - Date by Simon Wootton, on Flickr
 
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I can so empathise with you Lol. I remember my first digitally covered game as a nightmare.

I agree with Tony & Mark there is absolutely no point in shooting raw for live football! jpeg is all you'll need, unless of course you've been instructed to.
I always use card ingestion, (locked images only), unless direct ftping its just as quick once you get in to the swing of it, just make sure you've locked in a decent spread of the action to ingest & remembered to have both cards in the camera in case action starts again while still ingesting ;).

I agree with Mark on the photo mechanic's ftp and I would rather save images through photo mechanic to a folder & use filezilla to send the images.

As for names always fire a few back of shirt pics after the action/goal & lock them for download along with the action that way you always have a reference.
pics are looking very good so, simplify your workflow as much as possible so that it doesn't rely on technology,(as great as it is), so much & you'll find yourself with more time to spend with your eye at the camera to capture the action, which, is really what your there for .
Good luck.
Regards Graham.
 
Bluesman graham said:
I can so empathise with you Lol. I remember my first digitally covered game as a nightmare.

I agree with Tony & Mark there is absolutely no point in shooting raw for live football! jpeg is all you'll need, unless of course you've been instructed to.
I always use card ingestion, (locked images only), unless direct ftping its just as quick once you get in to the swing of it, just make sure you've locked in a decent spread of the action to ingest & remembered to have both cards in the camera in case action starts again while still ingesting ;).

I agree with Mark on the photo mechanic's ftp and I would rather save images through photo mechanic to a folder & use filezilla to send the images.

As for names always fire a few back of shirt pics after the action/goal & lock them for download along with the action that way you always have a reference.
pics are looking very good so, simplify your workflow as much as possible so that it doesn't rely on technology,(as great as it is), so much & you'll find yourself with more time to spend with your eye at the camera to capture the action, which, is really what your there for .
Good luck.
Regards Graham.
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Graham,

Many thanks for the reply. The FTP does work well but after trying it with the card reader I will just stick with that. So much easier and far less to worry about. I liked the idea of the images waiting for me but in practice it takes very little time to transfer from a card and as you say the other card is ready in camera in case. PM has been pretty decent since I sorted out the issue with SFTP(an extra forward slash caused all the bother). It is painfully slow at times but that is my phone signal from what I can see.

Shooting Raw was habit but I am shooting jpeg in both slots now. I was worried that if I made a mess of exposure etc then RAW could maybe help me out. As it is the out of camera jpegs are pretty much spot on and I am just having to crop for the most part. That gives me more time at the camera and more time for tagging. I took a few shots of backs of shirts etc but that is something I will need to practice as I tend to just chase the next bit of action. Again thanks for the words of wisdom. I'm getting there and it will be great when the workflow is just something that happens in the background.
 
Bluesman graham said:
As for names always fire a few back of shirt pics after the action/goal & lock them for download along with the action that way you always have a reference.
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few extra frames with names on back.... its what we have to do at rugby :) :)
 
KIPAX said:
few extra frames with names on back.... its what we have to do at rugby :) :)
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I've asked to do the U20s game at Murrayfield in a few weeks. I was thinking about the tagging as they don't have numbers on the shorts. I actually printed out the squads with images from the clubs' sites on Saturday. Helped with a couple of IDs and is nice and quick. Don't think I'd use during the game but handy for the in car edit
 
wookie6262 said:
I've asked to do the U20s game at Murrayfield in a few weeks. I was thinking about the tagging as they don't have numbers on the shorts. I actually printed out the squads with images from the clubs' sites on Saturday. Helped with a couple of IDs and is nice and quick. Don't think I'd use during the game but handy for the in car edit
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I deffo get there backs as they come out.. also extra frames when a try.. still a slow job.... probably not for regulars who do it every week.. like anyhting else they will have a good system.. but for myself now and then doing rugby... thats my way :)
 
KIPAX said:
few extra frames with names on back.... its what we have to do at rugby :) :)
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I'm still hopeful that International and Prem rugby will join the modern world in the next year or so...


... and put some f**king numbers on the front of their kit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't need names (pretty hard unless at International level with a new shirt for each game) but surely numbers aren't too hard???
 
DemiLion said:
I'm still hopeful that International and Prem rugby will join the modern world in the next year or so...


... and put some f**king numbers on the front of their kit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't need names (pretty hard unless at International level with a new shirt for each game) but surely numbers aren't too hard???
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Still a few teams playing with letters from what I have seen with sides that tour up here
 
KIPAX said:
I deffo get there backs as they come out.. also extra frames when a try.. still a slow job.... probably not for regulars who do it every week.. like anyhting else they will have a good system.. but for myself now and then doing rugby... thats my way :)
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If it was a full international I would get most of the Scotland guys but outside that struggling. Players boots are quite a good tell if you have two similar players in a similar area. The Scottish Top League is only 12 teams so I guess I will get used to who the players are and what numbers they wear. Second time shooting Dundee on Wednesday so a few are already in my head.
 
DemiLion said:
I'm still hopeful that International and Prem rugby will join the modern world in the next year or so...


... and put some f**king numbers on the front of their kit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't need names (pretty hard unless at International level with a new shirt for each game) but surely numbers aren't too hard???
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Over here, they have numbers on the front of the jerseys for GAA matches. It's a godsend!

Otherwise, it's the same as what has been suggested above; extra photographs of players backs whenever possible, and get to learning the players the moment the match starts!
 
Seba said:
Over here, they have numbers on the front of the jerseys for GAA matches. It's a godsend!

Otherwise, it's the same as what has been suggested above; extra photographs of players backs whenever possible, and get to learning the players the moment the match starts!
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Remember Peter's phrase: "Boots and Bandages"?

I'd add haircuts and tattoos to that nowadays.
 
Hair cuts and tattoos is a very good point. Had a Connacht player the other day I couldn't work out as his weight and build looked so similar to a couple of others, but clocked the full sleeve that set him apart.

So, good bless terrible life decisions (i'm allowed to say that!)
 
Game 4 of life behind the gaols saw me head to the relegation battle between St Johnstone and Dundee. I was hoping for a decent win for either side and a few shots of under pressure managers as I thought that may be the story. Conditions were tough with a strong swirling wind and neither side really threatened to break the deadlock. Barring my first game I have forgot a significant item each time. Tonight I left the monopod in the car and was so busy adding a few signings to the text file that it was too late to get it before the game started. At least Sony 400mm f2.8s aren't too heavy but I hope I don't make that error again.

Not the greatest game for images with goalmouth action at a premium but I felt a little more confident and got the images away via SFTP on time and with tagging that is improving too. My workflow still needs to improve as I am toing and froing too much with the edit and tagging process but it is getting faster. I have taken on board the advice here and am now shooting jpegs on both cards and using a card reader to get the images to the laptop. It is a much easier way to do it and I now have spare card readers and cables etc so have redundancy in that area too.

Unlikely, I will get anything in the papers but I can feel it all starting to click and I even coped with resending a couple of images when prompted from the Agency.

Event - Location - Date by Simon Wootton, on Flickr
 
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wookie6262 said:
Game 4 of life behind the gaols saw me head to the relegation battle between St Johnstone and Dundee. I was hoping for a decent win for either side and a few shots of under pressure managers as I thought that may be the story. Conditions were tough with a strong swirling wind and neither side really threatened to break the deadlock. Barring my first game I have forgot a significant item each time. Tonight I left the monopod in the car and was so busy adding a few signings to the text file that it was too late to get it before the game started. At least Sony 400mm f2.8s aren't too heavy but I hope I don't make that error again.
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Good to meet you briefly last night Simon - 'twas a bit windy :(
 
DemiLion said:
I'm still hopeful that International and Prem rugby will join the modern world in the next year or so...


... and put some f**king numbers on the front of their kit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't need names (pretty hard unless at International level with a new shirt for each game) but surely numbers aren't too hard???
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This, 100% this. I much prefer rugby to football, but seriously. I've been tempted to get some of the numbers for wheelie bins from B&Q and slap them on the fronts of the players before the match :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
wookie6262 said:
Tonight I left the monopod in the car and was so busy adding a few signings to the text file that it was too late to get it before the game started. At least Sony 400mm f2.8s aren't too heavy but I hope I don't make that error again.
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I once broke the lens collar just before the start of a match in Glasgow and so had to hand hold a 500 f4 for the entire match, in the sun, whilst badly hungover.

I also had a bag not turn up on a trip to Wales with the Republic of Ireland. The bag had in it the monopod and stool. That was a tough match also! :ROFLMAO:

You learn from all of these things. I'm still learning. What I take out of the van to the pitch, the workflow, it's all constantly being tweaked.
 
Seba said:
I once broke the lens collar just before the start of a match in Glasgow and so had to hand hold a 500 f4 for the entire match, in the sun, whilst badly hungover.

I also had a bag not turn up on a trip to Wales with the Republic of Ireland. The bag had in it the monopod and stool. That was a tough match also! :ROFLMAO:

You learn from all of these things. I'm still learning. What I take out of the van to the pitch, the workflow, it's all constantly being tweaked.
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Everyone I have spoken to has said the same. Every day is a school day. Another thing I never realised is what an effective sail a 400mm is in a strong wind. The weight wasn't to bad but framing with a strong wind tugging at the lens was tough going
 
wookie6262 said:
Everyone I have spoken to has said the same. Every day is a school day. Another thing I never realised is what an effective sail a 400mm is in a strong wind. The weight wasn't to bad but framing with a strong wind tugging at the lens was tough going
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It wasn't much better on a monopod - anyway these items left at home/in car are catching judging by my cock up last night - turning up with 3 x 1dx bodies and one battery between them isn't a mistake I've made before - thankfully I got a loan of a spare battery.
 
Actually got a fee for shooting a game yesterday. That helps pay some of the money I have forked out on Insurance etc and was really nice as I have shot this team for free a number of times.
Edinburgh University v Cardiff University by Simon Wootton, on Flickr
Edinburgh University v Cardiff University by Simon Wootton, on Flickr
Edinburgh University v Cardiff University by Simon Wootton, on Flickr
Edinburgh University v Cardiff University by Simon Wootton, on Flickr
Edinburgh University v Cardiff University by Simon Wootton, on Flickr
 
Mark400 said:
Hi wookie6262 what is the best way to approcess the Agencies and which ones are the best i'm based in the midlands
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I'm no expert and perhaps just got lucky. I waited until I had the kit, knew how to take good sports images and had a decent understanding of Photomechanic and keywording etc. I then emailed the two that I found in Scotland and one very kindly gave me a shot at a game and we took it from there. Far more Agencies and games in the Midlands but I have no idea who you would contact. It is a very steep learning curve that is for sure and 5 games in I still don't think I have been very happy with what I have produced and still haven't made a dime. It is very enjoyable though and a real buzz being at the games and working under pressure. Good luck if you give it a go
 
Mark400 said:
Hi wookie6262 what is the best way to approcess the Agencies and which ones are the best i'm based in the midlands
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Have the portfolio and kit, and then just email a few and see if any of them come back to you. Have a look at their websites, many of them will have information for photographers looking to work with them stating what they're looking for. They will probably also have a link to their recent coverage. Have a look to see if they are covering the sports/events you are hoping to do. There's no point say contacting an agency that specialise in a particular sport which you hate doing.
 
Just read through this, great thread and glad to see you are progressing well. I had to smile at the brain going blank trying to work out what's happening when something no worky or you forget a bit of kit! Been there a few times.
Best of luck.
 
Unless you want to get messed about a LOT, do NOT work for Agencies, trust me I've been down that road several times.
 
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