World Cup 2018

[cambsno]

What disappointed me most about last night's result was the way we reverted to old fashioned football and lost (as usual), pass back to the keeper and get him to punt it upfield in the vague hope someone/anyone gets on the end of it, which resulted, as always for Lord knows how many years, the opposition having the ball and coming forward. Why did we revert to that when the lads clearly showed they were very capable of passing out of defence and going at the opponents goal with real skill, either down the wing or varying it by going straight down the middle, there was none of that last night, just a punt up the sides and a hopefull cross virtually every time, it hasn't worked for the last 40/50 years who thought it would work last night, the coach? If so I hope he's learnt his lesson,
England last night were boring, old fashioned and lacking skill in attack, which wasnt how they had played in previous games and frankly I'd prefer to lose playing skillfull attacking football rather than what I watched last night.
Time for Southgate to go back to exciting football, he has the players to do it, both those that played last night and those that were injured or not picked.

You obviously didn't watch the first half? Our best performance of the tournament given the opponents and match. Controlled that half and looked comfortable. Lots of good passing. Had we managed to get the 2nd goal our performance deserved I think we would have gone on to win. I think in the 2nd half we got tired, and Croatia are not the sort of team to have 2 bad halves. We sat back and looked reasonable at the start but was crying out for a change at 60 mins. Funnily enough, Sterling who I had criticesed made a real nuisance of himself 1st half, and looked tired 2nd and I think this led to us dropping deeper. Yes, I think Southgate should have made changes sooner, at 60 Vardy (or Rashford) for Sterling and Cheek for Alli.

 

[MatBin]

You obviously didn't watch the first half? Our best performance of the tournament given the opponents and match. Controlled that half and looked comfortable. Lots of good passing. Had we managed to get the 2nd goal our performance deserved I think we would have gone on to win. I think in the 2nd half we got tired, and Croatia are not the sort of team to have 2 bad halves. We sat back and looked reasonable at the start but was crying out for a change at 60 mins. Funnily enough, Sterling who I had criticesed made a real nuisance of himself 1st half, and looked tired 2nd and I think this led to us dropping deeper. Yes, I think Southgate should have made changes sooner, at 60 Vardy (or Rashford) for Sterling and Cheek for Alli.

We had a good 30 minutes in the 1st half, then the back passing started, full credit to Pickford he has 2 great feet and dummied the Crotian attacker a couple of times. The pundits certainly noticed our negative play that was creeping in during their half time assesment. 2nd half was worse and I am surprised the Croatians were poor for the first 15min of the second half, after that we were always going backwards and inviting them on, which they took full advantage of.
Agreed Sterling is a missile, shame he doesnt do anything once he has the ball though.
years ago we always moaned we were "unlucky" and should have got more from the game, let's not go down that route again. We should be honest, out attackers didnt take their chances and at top level you just cant do that.
BUT - the boys are looking good, could be very good.

 

[StewartR]

What disappointed me most about last night's result was the way we reverted to old fashioned football and lost (as usual), pass back to the keeper and get him to punt it upfield in the vague hope someone/anyone gets on the end of it, which resulted, as always for Lord knows how many years, the opposition having the ball and coming forward. Why did we revert to that when the lads clearly showed they were very capable of passing out of defence and going at the opponents goal with real skill, either down the wing or varying it by going straight down the middle, there was none of that last night, just a punt up the sides and a hopefull cross virtually every time, it hasn't worked for the last 40/50 years who thought it would work last night, the coach? If so I hope he's learnt his lesson,
England last night were boring, old fashioned and lacking skill in attack, which wasnt how they had played in previous games and frankly I'd prefer to lose playing skillfull attacking football rather than what I watched last night.
Time for Southgate to go back to exciting football, he has the players to do it, both those that played last night and those that were injured or not picked.

I agree with a lot of this. We did revert to type in the second half, much more hoofing it down the field rather than trying to keep possession. It's not obvious why that was though. Relatively inexperienced players getting a bit stressed / excited about the prospect of getting to the final? Fatigue? Or maybe just not being allowed to play the game we wanted by a tactically superior Croatia team? Hard to say. I'm sure Southgate will have noticed though, and will be looking at how to prevent it happening in future.

 

[StewartR]

Nice piece by John Crace (not normally a sportswriter) in the Guardian the other day:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jul/10/why-the-nation-fell-for-gareth-southgate

A couple of highlights:

... England had just won its first ever penalty shootout in a World Cup. Having congratulated his own players, the England manager, Gareth Southgate, took the time to seek out Mateus Uribe, the Colombian player whose miss had set up the victory, and put an arm round him in consolation. This wasn’t just a random act of sensitivity and compassion ... it was one of empathy. ... He knew what it felt like to be the man to dash a nation’s dreams. To have been the man who ended up as the fall guy in a Pizza Hut advert. His arm round Uribe’s shoulder wasn’t a casual, passing gesture: it was one that spoke of a deep personal understanding.

Southgate is an open book and takes responsibility for his own actions. Previous managers might have thrown a strop and blamed somebody else when a sheet of paper, which appeared to contain some tactical notes, found its way into the hands of the press before the Panama game. Southgate took the hit, said the media were just doing their job and moved on. What could have slipped into the familiar them-and-us siege mentality between the players and the outside world was instead instantly defused.

Fielding a near-second-strength team for the group match against Belgium was an act of insight and inspiration. Not because losing guaranteed England a place in what looked to be the easier side of the draw, but because it offered clarity to the rest of the squad. They knew they had been given a chance to make their claim for a place in the regular starting 11, but they hadn’t been good enough to take it.

 

[badlywornroy]

Having slept on it, a few thoughts.

Do we need to question our physical conditioning ?

Much was made of the fact that England were the 2nd youngest team in the competition.
Doubts were cast on Croatia's ability to 'last the pace' due to having played extra time in their last two matches.

I think it was Garry Neville who said pre-match, if it comes down to extra time and fitness, England are winning this.

Towards the end of the 2nd half and especially in extra time England were 'leggy' and looking knackered and consequently resorted increasingly to long balls.

Croatia looked tired but found the motivation/energy to dominate England for most of this period.

To me Harry Kane is a conundrum, deadly in a really excellent Spurs side and certainly a very good finisher but 'World class' ? sorry I do not see it. Not mobile enough and does not have 'fast feet' Sadly we do not have anyone better.

Jesse Lingard, capable of occasional brilliance (I guess most top players are) but not a top International player. When fit I would prefer Oxlade-Chamberlain, he has pace and power.

Deli -Ali earns his place in an excellent Spurs side but 'lightweight' in the England side, suspect temperament, lacks stamina and consequently disappears for long periods. When fit I prefer Adam Lallana, has guile and can beat a man.

Henderson and Dier in the same team will never work for me, old-fashioned, typical English players, hardworking, hardrunning, combative but against top International teams you need, guile, pace and that little something 'extra'

Gareth Southgate did a good job with limited resources to pick from, apart from injured players if I remember rightly in 2017 69.2% of the Premier league players were foreign i.e not qualified for England.


Just my thoughts, many will not agree and we will never know who's right and who's wrong. vive la difference as the likely world cup winners would say.

 

[cambsno]

Having slept on it, a few thoughts.

Do we need to question our physical conditioning ?

Much was made of the fact that England were the 2nd youngest team in the competition.
Doubts were cast on Croatia's ability to 'last the pace' due to having played extra time in their last two matches.

I think it was Garry Neville who said pre-match, if it comes down to extra time and fitness, England are winning this.

Towards the end of the 2nd half and especially in extra time England were 'leggy' and looking knackered and consequently resorted increasingly to long balls.

Croatia looked tired but found the motivation/energy to dominate England for most of this period.

To me Harry Kane is a conundrum, deadly in a really excellent Spurs side and certainly a very good finisher but 'World class' ? sorry I do not see it. Not mobile enough and does not have 'fast feet' Sadly we do not have anyone better.

Jesse Lingard, capable of occasional brilliance (I guess most top players are) but not a top International player. When fit I would prefer Oxlade-Chamberlain, he has pace and power.

Deli -Ali earns his place in an excellent Spurs side but 'lightweight' in the England side, suspect temperament, lacks stamina and consequently disappears for long periods. When fit I prefer Adam Lallana, has guile and can beat a man.

Henderson and Dier in the same team will never work for me, old-fashioned, typical English players, hardworking, hardrunning, combative but against top International teams you need, guile, pace and that little something 'extra'

Gareth Southgate did a good job with limited resources to pick from, apart from injured players if I remember rightly in 2017 69.2% of the Premier league players were foreign i.e not qualified for England.


Just my thoughts, many will not agree and we will never know who's right and who's wrong. vive la difference as the likely world cup winners would say.

I was thinking about the opposite about Croatia, the fact they have played 2x ET means they may well be more conditioned. Its not sustainable long term but for 3 or 4 matches it is. Other factors... ours play in a high intensity league, whereas the Spanish league for example is slower pace and less intense. Maybe they are used to playing in warmer conditions than we are had an impact. I do think though that we seemed to tire far too quickly though.

Kane, well, he has scored more than 30 goals in each of the last 3 years in possibly the toughest league. Good stickers don't always need to be mobile, Shearer wasn't compared to the likes of Owen! Agree with the Ox ahead of Lingard, I think All has been good temperament wise for a while but I got the feeling he was not fully fit. I disagree about Henderson and Dier, teams need the odd player who is full of graft and hard work, you cant have it full of flair players.

 

[joxby]

I thought we looked leggy as early as 15 mins in to the second half, it was the same in the Columbia game.
Kane looked under par in both Columbia game and Croatia games.
I guess he was under talisman pressure to play, not to mention the pressure he must place on himself to play.
It can't be easy playing so many games in such a short space of time, ultimately England couldn't sustain their performance levels.

 

[joxby]

oh, and player of the tournament for England, gotta be McGuire

 

[keef32]

oh, and player of the tournament for England, gotta be McGuire

Think he looked a bit under pressure last night, pickford gets it for me!

 

[keef32]

Tenner it is, got carried away there and forgot I have retired now.

Hope you win, at least a charity gets a few quid whatever and thanks for being a good sport

What's your charity?

 

[tijuana taxi]

Hi Richard, I have sold tickets and done a couple of sponsored bike rides for this charity https://www.each.org.uk

Thanks for the kind gesture and hope you agree on the choice, tell you what I'll match your tenner.

Cheers
Rich

 

[keef32]

Hi Richard, I have sold tickets and done a couple of sponsored bike rides for this charity https://www.each.org.uk

Thanks for the kind gesture and hope you agree on the choice, tell you what I'll match your tenner.

Cheers
Rich

Children's charity is always a winner in my eyes.

Good man on matching the Tenner, I'll get it sorted tomorrow!

 

[tijuana taxi]

Children's charity is always a winner in my eyes.

Good man on matching the Tenner, I'll get it sorted tomorrow!

Thank you, something else good to come from this World Cup

All the best
Rich

*edit*
Done
4. Payment
Your donation of £10 has been successful. Thank you for supporting EACH - it’s greatly appreciated. Your donation will help provide care and support to local life-threatened children, young people and their families.

Amount:
£10

Order number:
f4215b69-fb24-6b2e-abfd-ff000091554c

Transaction Reference:
{0D840DB6-469E-973E-1D6A-C580FDF03A22}

 

[StewartR]

Meanwhile, for those (like me) looking forward to Euro 2020 and World Cup 2022, a nice reminder in today's Times. Under the headline "This is only the beginning", it points out that:
* 7 members of yesterday's starting 11 (Pickford, Stones, Maguire, Lingard, Alli, Sterling, Kane) are 25 or under;
* 4 other squad members (Alexander-Arnold, Dier, Loftus-Cheek, Rashford) are under 25;
* England are currently Under-20 World champions;
* England are currently Under-19 European champions;
* England are currently Under-17 World champions.

Hopeful times ahead.

 

[andya700]

Meanwhile, for those (like me) looking forward to Euro 2020 and World Cup 2022, a nice reminder in today's Times. Under the headline "This is only the beginning", it points out that:
* 7 members of yesterday's starting 11 (Pickford, Stones, Maguire, Lingard, Alli, Sterling, Kane) are 25 or under;
* 4 other squad members (Alexander-Arnold, Dier, Loftus-Cheek, Rashford) are under 25;
* England are currently Under-20 World champions;
* England are currently Under-19 European champions;
* England are currently Under-17 World champions.

Hopeful times ahead.

You would hope so Stewart, but I listened to an interview with one of the coaches of these teams, and he outlined where it was going wrong. He said that many of these young guys will be farmed out to lower league teams, where they will not get the support they need with regard to coaching, nurturing, discipline, nutrition and most importantly, the exposure against top flight players.
I am going to post a link to the 2017 U19 Euro champions squad, now bear in mind that these are young pros, and they are now 19-20 years old and should be getting in this latest World Cup team. Two of these guys already play at Barcelona and Borussia Dortmund.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_national_under-19_football_team

 

[badlywornroy]

Sadly Foreign owners and foreign coaches seem to prefer foreign players (strange eh ?)

This leaves young english talent often sitting on the bench, or farmed out to other clubs.

We need quota's for the amount of foreign players per squad.

i understand this is difficult while we are in the EU but presumably that can all change after Brexit ?

 

[tijuana taxi]

Sadly Foreign owners and foreign coaches seem to prefer foreign players (strange eh ?)

This leaves young english talent often sitting on the bench, or farmed out to other clubs.

We need quota's for the amount of foreign players per squad.

i understand this is difficult while we are in the EU but presumably that can all change after Brexit ?

That was awful when they tried it before, fans who pay top money want to see the very best players no matter where they come from.

 

[cambsno]

That was awful when they tried it before, fans who pay top money want to see the very best players no matter where they come from.

That's fine and in reality I don't think people have a problem with Man U buying Pogba, Sanchez, and the like.... its when the clubs at the lower end buy loads of players no-one has heard of, and especially so in the Championship. Look at some of the players the likes of West Ham or Watford buy for example, surely there are players as good or better in the Championship or league 1? If clubs outside the Prem were subjected to a quota it would give more opportunity to the younger English players and get the clubs developing more home-grown talent. As a Camb Utd fan we don't have that problem, but should we find ourselves in the Championship I would rather take PL players or raid the lower leagues for players rather than trawl the French 2nd division!

 

[Kell]

I still think there's a lot to be learned from world rugby that could be transferred to football.

In particular, the use of VAR. While it's been going for a number of years in rugby, everybody (especially the refs) understand how they need to deal with it. Including how to ask the right question and what to do with the information they receive.

Live clock: why they couldn't implement this in bigger games is beyond me. It would certainly prevent those weird situations when you know as a viewer that the games been stopped for 7 or 8 minutes and then the board comes up with 1 minute extra time.

Respect for the ref. While I think it's true that there is a bit more of the 'football' mentality creeping into rugby, most players call the ref 'sir' and understand that if they shout or disrespect him, they're going off.

Overall though, this has been one of the best world cups that I can remember. Let's hope the players have enough will and determination to want to perform on Saturday even just for third place. And 'come on Croatia' for Sunday.

 

[StewartR]

I listened to an interview with one of the coaches of these teams, and he outlined where it was going wrong. He said that many of these young guys will be farmed out to lower league teams, where they will not get the support they need with regard to coaching, nurturing, discipline, nutrition and most importantly, the exposure against top flight players.

Yeah, I get your point.

Care to guess how many of England's current squad of 23 have been through that experience of being farmed out on loan? Obviously Pickford and Kane are famous for having done that, and Loftus-Cheek is another who immediately springs to mind, but the answer is actually 16. (The only ones who have never been loaned out to "lesser" clubs are Jones, Young, Alexander-Arnold, Dier, Sterling, Vardy, Rashford.) It's obviously the standard route these days - unlike in Germany or Spain, say, where the standard route is from a club's youth team to their "reserves" team (which typically plays in a lower league) to the first team. I guess the German / Spanish approach provides greater continuity, greater support, and more long-term interest in a player's development.

 

[StewartR]

I still think there's a lot to be learned from world rugby that could be transferred to football.

In particular, the use of VAR. While it's been going for a number of years in rugby, everybody (especially the refs) understand how they need to deal with it. Including how to ask the right question and what to do with the information they receive.

Live clock: why they couldn't implement this in bigger games is beyond me. It would certainly prevent those weird situations when you know as a viewer that the games been stopped for 7 or 8 minutes and then the board comes up with 1 minute extra time.

Respect for the ref. While I think it's true that there is a bit more of the 'football' mentality creeping into rugby, most players call the ref 'sir' and understand that if they shout or disrespect him, they're going off.

I agree totally. VAR is here to stay and it will get better. But those other two are things that FIFA could do right now, and it's getting embarrassing (especially with regard to respect for the ref).

 

[cambsno]

Yeah, I get your point.

Care to guess how many of England's current squad of 23 have been through that experience of being farmed out on loan? Obviously Pickford and Kane are famous for having done that, and Loftus-Cheek is another who immediately springs to mind, but the answer is actually 16. (The only ones who have never been loaned out to "lesser" clubs are Jones, Young, Alexander-Arnold, Dier, Sterling, Vardy, Rashford.) It's obviously the standard route these days - unlike in Germany or Spain, say, where the standard route is from a club's youth team to their "reserves" team (which typically plays in a lower league) to the first team. I guess the German / Spanish approach provides greater continuity, greater support, and more long-term interest in a player's development.

Lower league teams are totally opposed to the idea of a Man City B team in League 2 but I think it may have merits.

 

[cambsno]

I agree totally. VAR is here to stay and it will get better. But those other two are things that FIFA could do right now, and it's getting embarrassing (especially with regard to respect for the ref).

The thing for me which is annoying (especially with Columbia around the penalty, but Croatia did it too) is the way that they surround the ref. Here the refs have themselves to blame, nothing happens so why should the players back off? What the ref should do is say to move now or there is a booking, then 5 secs later book someone, then another, then another. Once that is done a few times guess what, players will not do it!!!

 

[Kell]

I agree totally. VAR is here to stay and it will get better. But those other two are things that FIFA could do right now, and it's getting embarrassing (especially with regard to respect for the ref).

Yeah - captain only speaks to the ref or your name goes in the book. Two instances and it's a yellow, one more and it's a red. It would soon stop.

The other thing is the 'diving' - at least some of the refs could see it for what it was and just ignored it. I really don't know how to stop that and remember in the previous Euros the pundits discussing how England should probably do more of it as they're doing themselves out of free kicks and penalties as everyone else does it - even though they all agreed we shouldn't have to change the way we play to accommodate cheating.

I seem to remember that football is still a contact sport and fair contesting of the ball should be allowed and encouraged.

 

[cambsno]

Yeah - captain only speaks to the ref or your name goes in the book. Two instances and it's a yellow, one more and it's a red. It would soon stop.

The other thing is the 'diving' - at least some of the refs could see it for what it was and just ignored it. I really don't know how to stop that and remember in the previous Euros the pundits discussing how England should probably do more of it as they're doing themselves out of free kicks and penalties as everyone else does it - even though they all agreed we shouldn't have to change the way we play to accommodate cheating.

I seem to remember that football is still a contact sport and fair contesting of the ball should be allowed and encouraged.

I think you have to be 100% sure on diving and how much contact. For example its easy to tell a dive with no contact but what about when there is (minimal) contact and the player goes down, or goes down Neymar style. That I think can only be done by a panel after the match. So at major leagues and tournament it should be looked at, and if there are instance, 3 game ban.

 

[Kell]

I think you have to be 100% sure on diving and how much contact. For example its easy to tell a dive with no contact but what about when there is (minimal) contact and the player goes down, or goes down Neymar style. That I think can only be done by a panel after the match. So at major leagues and tournament it should be looked at, and if there are instance, 3 game ban.

It would/could/should be one of the uses of VAR. Just like when they check for high tackles, arms not wrapped etc in rugby. Can be done pretty much instantly if the game's already stopped.

 

[andya700]

Here are the FIFA rules regarding VAR.
At the moment the VAR team can only advise a referee, which may explain why Harry Kane was not awarded a penalty twice, when opponents twice used Ippon Seoi Nage against him - not a recognised move in football.

https://football-technology.fifa.com/en/innovations/var-at-the-world-cup/

 

[badlywornroy]

That was awful when they tried it before, fans who pay top money want to see the very best players no matter where they come from.

You know when you say something like that I need to see some supporting evidence because I am not just going to take your word for it.

The 'devil is in the detail' if you ask fans do you want to see the best players in the World in the premier league ? I have no doubt the answer is yes.

Ask fans, do you believe in restricting the number of foreign players so young English talent has better opportunities and consequently the England football team benefits you are very likely to get a different answer.

 

[StewartR]

The 'devil is in the detail' if you ask fans do you want to see the best players in the World in the premier league ? I have no doubt the answer is yes.

Ask fans, do you believe in restricting the number of foreign players so young English talent has better opportunities and consequently the England football team benefits you are very likely to get a different answer.

Indeed. Time to wheel this one out again.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ZZJXw4MTA#t=29s

 

[StewartR]

The thing for me which is annoying (especially with Columbia around the penalty, but Croatia did it too) is the way that they surround the ref. Here the refs have themselves to blame, nothing happens so why should the players back off? What the ref should do is say to move now or there is a booking, then 5 secs later book someone, then another, then another. Once that is done a few times guess what, players will not do it!!!

They don't even need to give a warning. Here's what it says in the Laws Of The Game [1] (and specifically Law 12, Fouls and Misconduct):

A player is cautioned if guilty of: ... dissent by word or action ...

... a player must be cautioned [my emphasis] for unsporting behaviour including if a player: ... shows a lack of respect for the game ...

A player must [my emphasis] be cautioned for ... gesturing or acting in a provocative, derisory or inflammatory way ...

A player, substitute or substituted player who commits any of the following offences is sent off: ... using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures.

It's all there. All they need to do is instruct referees to enforce it.

[1] https://resources.fifa.com/image/upload/laws-of-the-game-2018-19.pdf?cloudid=khhloe2xoigyna8juxw3

 

[cambsno]

You know when you say something like that I need to see some supporting evidence because I am not just going to take your word for it.

The 'devil is in the detail' if you ask fans do you want to see the best players in the World in the premier league ? I have no doubt the answer is yes.

Ask fans, do you believe in restricting the number of foreign players so young English talent has better opportunities and consequently the England football team benefits you are very likely to get a different answer.

But we had very few foreign players in the 70s and failed to qualify, same in 94?

 

[wibbly]

That was awful when they tried it before, fans who pay top money want to see the very best players no matter where they come from.

Shame they don’t then. We don’t have the very best players here. We have a smattering of them but the absolute elite don’t end up here.

 

[Jelster]

They don't even need to give a warning. Here's what it says in the Laws Of The Game [1] (and specifically Law 12, Fouls and Misconduct):

It's all there. All they need to do is instruct referees to enforce it.

[1] https://resources.fifa.com/image/upload/laws-of-the-game-2018-19.pdf?cloudid=khhloe2xoigyna8juxw3

I don't understand why they don't enforce it... When I was playing I remember complaining to the ref for not getting a free kick and he called me over and told me "question me again like that and you'll go in the book". In the 2nd half I gave away a foul and said "You sure Ref?", and was told "I warned you" and I got a yellow card. I didn't say word for the rest of the game..... It works, it's just some of these players think they can get away with it, and it seems normal in South America...

 

[Jelster]

Shame they don’t then. We don’t have the very best players here. We have a smattering of them but the absolute elite don’t end up here.

I'll just drop this in here....

The four semi finalists have a total of 92 players in their squads. Of those 92:
* 40 play in the EPL
* 12 play in La Liga
* 12 play in Ligue 1
* 9 play in the Bundesliga
* 8 play in Serie A
... and 11 don't play in one of the top 5 leagues.

The most represented club in the semi final squads seems to be Tottenham, with 9. Then Manchester United and Manchester City with 7 each, then Chelsea with 5.

In the World Cup as a whole, the 32 countries had 736 players in their squads:
* 108 play in the EPL (plus 21 more in the Championship)
* 78 play in La Liga (Primera Division only)
* 62 play in the Bundesliga
* 58 play in Serie A
* 47 play in Ligue 1

So yeah, basically the semi finals are the EPL show.

So, we may not have Naymar (don't want him anyway) Messi or Ronaldo, but we do have, by far, the largest number of players in the last 4 teams.

 

[andya700]

Shame they don’t then. We don’t have the very best players here. We have a smattering of them but the absolute elite don’t end up here.

This World Cup would prove you very wrong, because the English Premier league has supplied 108 players for the various teams, La Liga Spain 78, Bundesliga Germany 62, Serie A Italy 58, Ligue 1 France 47.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/865774/leagues-most-players-world-cup/

Manchester City has 16 players at this World Cup

https://www.statista.com/statistics/865767/club-teams-players-world-cup/

What is the absolute elite? One or two players (Ronaldo, Messi) or ten players? Kevin de Bruyne, Edin Hazard, Mo Salah, Harry Kane, possibly the top four goalkeepers in the World at the moment.

 

[cambsno]

This World Cup would prove you very wrong, because the English Premier league has supplied 108 players for the various teams, La Liga Spain 78, Bundesliga Germany 62, Serie A Italy 58, Ligue 1 France 47.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/865774/leagues-most-players-world-cup/

Manchester City has 16 players at this World Cup

https://www.statista.com/statistics/865767/club-teams-players-world-cup/

What is the absolute elite? One or two players (Ronaldo, Messi) or ten players? Kevin de Bruyne, Edin Hazard, Mo Salah, Harry Kane, possibly the top four goalkeepers in the World at the moment.

And we have had Modric and Ronaldo in the past!!

 

[cambsno]

This World Cup would prove you very wrong, because the English Premier league has supplied 108 players for the various teams, La Liga Spain 78, Bundesliga Germany 62, Serie A Italy 58, Ligue 1 France 47.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/865774/leagues-most-players-world-cup/

Manchester City has 16 players at this World Cup

https://www.statista.com/statistics/865767/club-teams-players-world-cup/

What is the absolute elite? One or two players (Ronaldo, Messi) or ten players? Kevin de Bruyne, Edin Hazard, Mo Salah, Harry Kane, possibly the top four goalkeepers in the World at the moment.

Kante, Aguero, Pogba are pretty decent too!!

 

[andya700]

And we have had Modric and Ronaldo in the past!!

When you think of the players the Premier league has had in the last twenty years - Henry, Viera, Pires, Anelka, Lloris, Bergkamp, Cantona, Ruud Ghullit, Robin Van Persie etc,etc.etc.

 

[wibbly]

This World Cup would prove you very wrong, because the English Premier league has supplied 108 players for the various teams, La Liga Spain 78, Bundesliga Germany 62, Serie A Italy 58, Ligue 1 France 47.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/865774/leagues-most-players-world-cup/

Manchester City has 16 players at this World Cup

https://www.statista.com/statistics/865767/club-teams-players-world-cup/

What is the absolute elite? One or two players (Ronaldo, Messi) or ten players? Kevin de Bruyne, Edin Hazard, Mo Salah, Harry Kane, possibly the top four goalkeepers in the World at the moment.

That just proves popularity not the elite. Here's the Ballon D'or contenders -
Cristiano Ronaldo, Luka Modric, Kylian Mbappe, Lionel Messi, Harry Kane, Mohamed Salah, Kevin De Bruyne, Neymar, Antoine Griezmann, Eden Hazard, Philippe Coutinho, Andres Iniesta, Sergio Ramos, Gareth Bale, Paul Pogba

5 players in 13 and you could argue one or two aren't elite. Salah had a great season at Liverpool but he's not elite, I'm not even sure why Pogba is on that list!

When you think of the players the Premier league has had in the last twenty years - Henry, Viera, Pires, Anelka, Lloris, Bergkamp, Cantona, Ruud Ghullit, Robin Van Persie etc,etc.etc.

I'm not arguing we've had great players (or have some great players in the Prem), all of those are. But there's not many elite players on there. Henry, Bergkamp, Cantona, Ghullit, Van Persie maybe. Wonder how many of those out of interest made it on to a Ballon D'Or list during their time in England.

 

[andya700]

That just proves popularity not the elite. Here's the Ballon D'or contenders -
Cristiano Ronaldo, Luka Modric, Kylian Mbappe, Lionel Messi, Harry Kane, Mohamed Salah, Kevin De Bruyne, Neymar, Antoine Griezmann, Eden Hazard, Philippe Coutinho, Andres Iniesta, Sergio Ramos, Gareth Bale, Paul Pogba

5 players in 13 and you could argue one or two aren't elite. Salah had a great season at Liverpool but he's not elite, I'm not even sure why Pogba is on that list!




I'm not arguing we've had great players (or have some great players in the Prem), all of those are. But there's not many elite players on there. Henry, Bergkamp, Cantona, Ghullit, Van Persie maybe. Wonder how many of those out of interest made it on to a Ballon D'Or list during their time in England.

Thierry Henry and Didier Drogba featured on the list many times, in addition to Steve Gerrard, David Beckham, Alan Shearer, Kevin Keegan, Michael Owen and Kenny Dalgliesh. Wayne Rooney, Samuel Eto, Xabi Alonso, Luis Suarez, Gareth Bale, Alexis Sanchez, Riyadh Mahrex and Jamie Vardy (2016), Harry Kane (2017),