World Cup 2018

Thierry Henry and Didier Drogba featured on the list many times, in addition to Steve Gerrard, David Beckham, Alan Shearer, Kevin Keegan, Michael Owen and Kenny Dalgliesh. Wayne Rooney, Samuel Eto, Xabi Alonso, Luis Suarez, Gareth Bale, Alexis Sanchez, Riyadh Mahrex and Jamie Vardy (2016), Harry Kane (2017),

I am convinced that FIFA just doesn't want the Ballon D'or going to somebody who plays in England. Since 2008 it has gone to either Messi or Ronaldo, the only English winner in recent times has been Michael Owen in 2001. Since then it's not been won by an English player, or a player at an English club. Sometimes I do wonder whether there's a political sub plot being played over the award.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballon_d'Or
 
Here's the Ballon D'or contenders -
Cristiano Ronaldo, Luka Modric, Kylian Mbappe, Lionel Messi, Harry Kane, Mohamed Salah, Kevin De Bruyne, Neymar, Antoine Griezmann, Eden Hazard, Philippe Coutinho, Andres Iniesta, Sergio Ramos, Gareth Bale, Paul Pogba

5 players in 13
5 in 15 actually. Plus another 4 who previously played in England but were lured to Real Madrid and Barcelona.

EPL representation in that list isn't bad actually. Where they currently play: Spain 8, England 5, France 2, Germany 0, Italy 0. Where they've played during their careers: England 9, Spain 9, France 3, Italy 3, Germany 1.

It's an interesting question as to why so many of the best players play for Real and Barca. Do they play for Real and Barca because they're the best players, or are they (deemed to be) the best players because they play for Real and Barca? I suspect its a bit of both.
 
I am convinced that FIFA just doesn't want the Ballon D'or going to somebody who plays in England. Since 2008 it has gone to either Messi or Ronaldo, the only English winner in recent times has been Michael Owen in 2001. Since then it's not been won by an English player, or a player at an English club. Sometimes I do wonder whether there's a political sub plot being played over the award.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballon_d'Or
There simply hasn’t been an English player that could compare to those two and how many truly world class players have we actually had since 2001?
 
There simply hasn’t been an English player that could compare to those two and how many truly world class players have we actually had since 2001?

On the basis of this World Cup Sterling has been Messi’s equal!!!

World class in that time? Beckham, scholes, terry, possibly Rio (I don’t see Sergio Ramos as any better), Rooney ...
 
3rd place play-off

Oh dear, we are so pedestrian. No one has the confidence / ability / balls to attempt the killer pass/the defence splitting pass.

I could scream with frustration when someone passes to a team-mate who is facing him. Said team mate immediately gives it him back . . . and repeat.

Charter the fastest plane possible and get Wilshere out there for the 2nd half, please.
 
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On the basis of this World Cup messi has not performed, over the course of the season sterling is several miles away from him.... I will give you Beckham and maybe Terry..... did you include Rooney for a laugh although I will admit he performed well internationally against weak opposition but on the big stage no way.
A bit like the current lot. Put them up against Panama and Tunisia and we start going on about winning the World Cup.... Belgium and Croatia embarrass us. We are excellent but predictable in set pieces but actually don’t have that much natural skill. We could be kind and maybe say it’s been trained out of them.
 
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On the basis of this World Cup messi has not performed, over the course of the season sterling is several miles away from him.... I will give you Beckham and maybe Terry..... did you include Rooney for a laugh although I will admit he performed well internationally against weak opposition but on the big stage no way.

You don’t become top scorer of all time for Man U if not quality. I am not saying he is as good as messi but messi has not produced on big stage either. At his peak Rooney I think would have got into pretty much any team in the world.
 
3rd place play-off

Oh dear, we are so pedestrian. No one has the confidence / ability / balls to attempt the killer pass/the defence splitting pass.

I could scream with frustration when someone passes to a team-mate who is facing him. Said team mate immediately gives it him back . . . and repeat.

Charter the fastest plane possible and get Wilshere out there for the 2nd half, please.

Rose is shocking!!
 
I also find myself wanting Harry Kane to f**king run

In his defence people have ‘talked him up’ so much he had far too much expectation on his shoulders. He has been poor though. I said it before he is ‘normally’ a good finisher but he needs players around him to create chances for him. He has that at Spurs. He isn’t good enough ‘on the floor’ to create his own chances. He is likely going to finish leading scorer and will be ‘lionised’ for that. 3 pens and a deflection he knew nothing about ? Personally I would have preferred to see him score 3 or 4 really good goals from open play, but I doubt many will agree with me.
 
Disappointing result but on the whole to finish 4th is respectable for England. Certainly bodes well for the future given the age and experience of this team.

We’ve got some great kids coming through at U17, U19, U20 level so if they make it into the Prem and get game time that’s only going to help.

I’m disappointed we lost today and Wednesday but overall I think we’ve had a pretty good tournament.
 
Belgium and Croatia embarrass us
In what way?

In the way that they possess an awful lots of natural skills and we don’t... we are very good at set pieces as I said before but we have no flair players. Who have we got to compare to hazard, De Bruyne, lukaku, Modric, Rakitic and many others between them. Exciting football needs
ball skills, flair and individuality not a bloody love train.... that was our only trick of the tournament.
 
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Belgium and Croatia embarrass us


In the way that they possess an awful lots of natural skills and we don’t... we are very good at set pieces as I said before but we have no flair players. Who have we got to compare to hazard, De Bruyne, lukaku, Modric, Rakitic and many others between them. Exciting football needs
ball skills, flair and individuality not a bloody love train.... that was our only trick of the tournament.

Sorry, still not seeing where we've been embarrassed. Are you saying that it's embarrassing that other teams have got better players than us?
 
I give up...... we will win it, Barcelona will buy Kane for £200 million and Gareth will go on to be the most successful manager of all time.... sterling will become the all time highest England goal score and Henderson will still be playing at 47....
 
Saw the love train for the 98th time and fell asleep..... missed the rest of the match.... there’s always a positive if you look hard enough
:)
 
My view of the tournament.
England had an easy group to qualify from which flattered them, and also a team (Panama) which they could use for target practice, and another which could have gone the same way, yet was not easy on the eye for fifty minutes.
Our record for the tournament was
Won 3 - Tunisia, Panama, Sweden
Draw 1 (won on penalties) - Columbia
Lost 3 - Belgium, Croatia, Belgium
That is not a good record.
When we won the World Cup in 1966, we drew against Uruguay, then beat France, Mexico, Argentina, Portugal and West Germany - quality opposition.
Today was not very impressive at all.
If Kane was not fit then don't play him.
If Sterling cannot score, then don't play him.
Our defenders cannot defend against good teams, good attackers - Belgium, Croatia.
None of our players seems to know how to play the ball out of defence on the ground, link up with midfield, then put good passes into our attackers.
There has been too much hype about this team, before and during the tournament.
As Gerry S pointed out in an earlier post, most of our players do not seem to possess instinctive skills, passing the ball is at times like watching young, coached players attempting to select a pass - watch ball, control and stop ball, look around, decide who to pass to (usually nearest bloke who is looking at you, who is going to do exactly the same as you have done). At this stage everything should be instinctive - even Columbia managed that after trying to kick us off the pitch in the first 60 minutes of the game.
Belgium's second goal this afternoon was a good example of passing at its best, as was their winning goal against Brazil.

This is not a stupid rant, it is frustration at something we should, could and possibly will be better at, but it will not happen if we mollycoddle this bunch of highly paid Pemier League professionals and refer to them as HEROES.

They aren't heroes, this isn't even the beginning of the end in them becoming heroes, but it might be the end of the beginning in them becoming heroes.:)
 
My view of the tournament.
England had an easy group to qualify from which flattered them, and also a team (Panama) which they could use for target practice, and another which could have gone the same way, yet was not easy on the eye for fifty minutes.
Our record for the tournament was
Won 3 - Tunisia, Panama, Sweden
Draw 1 (won on penalties) - Columbia
Lost 3 - Belgium, Croatia, Belgium
That is not a good record.
When we won the World Cup in 1966, we drew against Uruguay, then beat France, Mexico, Argentina, Portugal and West Germany - quality opposition.
Today was not very impressive at all.
If Kane was not fit then don't play him.
If Sterling cannot score, then don't play him.
Our defenders cannot defend against good teams, good attackers - Belgium, Croatia.
None of our players seems to know how to play the ball out of defence on the ground, link up with midfield, then put good passes into our attackers.
There has been too much hype about this team, before and during the tournament.
As Gerry S pointed out in an earlier post, most of our players do not seem to possess instinctive skills, passing the ball is at times like watching young, coached players attempting to select a pass - watch ball, control and stop ball, look around, decide who to pass to (usually nearest bloke who is looking at you, who is going to do exactly the same as you have done). At this stage everything should be instinctive - even Columbia managed that after trying to kick us off the pitch in the first 60 minutes of the game.
Belgium's second goal this afternoon was a good example of passing at its best, as was their winning goal against Brazil.

This is not a stupid rant, it is frustration at something we should, could and possibly will be better at, but it will not happen if we mollycoddle this bunch of highly paid Pemier League professionals and refer to them as HEROES.

They aren't heroes, this isn't even the beginning of the end in them becoming heroes, but it might be the end of the beginning in them becoming heroes.:)

Well I like to be original if possible but I agree more or less with your "view of the tournament"

I said it earlier we are in big danger of letting the fact that we got to the semi-finals of the World cup cloud our view of the tournament and believe we are better than we are.

Yes they are young and yes they should ? get better but if you do not have the technical skills in your 20's you are not going to become world beaters.

You can only get so far on experience, organisation, hard work and team spirit.

However, like you I remain a supporter but one living in the real world and not wearing 'rose coloured spectacles"
 
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Well I like to be original if possible but I agree more or less with your "view of the tournament"

I said it earlier we are in big danger of letting the fact that we got to the semi-finals of the World cup cloud our view of the tournament and believe we are better than we are.

Yes they are young and yes they should ? get better but if you do not have the technical skills in your 20's you are not going to become world beaters.

You can only get so far on experience, organisation, hard work and team spirit.

However, like you I remain a supporter but one living in the real world and not wearing 'rose coloured spectacles"

I would also say, that I do not think that they are fit when compared to other endurance athletes such as cyclists and tennis players.
I watched the end of the Kevin Anderson v John Isner semi final at Wimbledon.
They had been on court, at each other for 6.4 hours, and they they were magnificant to the end - no teammates to help them, no rolling over in agony when they cramped up.
I also watched Nadal v Djokovitch today before and during the football match, and they didn't ever give up.
When I was 17, I and four other mates (along with a couple of dozen others) went for trials with a lower league team.
They selected the one who was big and could run fast, but couldn,t control the ball, not my mate who was the junior equivalent of Bobby Moore with his control or distribution, or my other mate who was small and fast who beat guys all the time, or me who could control the ball and pass accurately, and could shoot with either foot (although I did prefer volleys on the right, rather than my preferred left).
Anyway, I preferred cycling where only the road took bits out of your legs.
 
There simply hasn’t been an English player that could compare to those two and how many truly world class players have we actually had since 2001?

I don't understand how Henry did not get the Ballon D'or in 2004. He was the leading light in a team that went a whole season undefeated but didn't even get into the top 3. It went to Andri Shevchenko who was at AC Milan. Henry was runner up in 2003, Gerrard & Lampard were in the top 3 in 2005, Ronaldo won it in 2008 while at United.

Are Messi & Ronaldo really that good, when they don't play against decent opposition for 50% of the season?
 
Are Messi & Ronaldo really that good, when they don't play against decent opposition for 50% of the season?
We had this debate about 6 weeks ago in the non- World Cup football thread. You keep on insisting that the English league is "more competitive", without looking at the data and without even defining what you mean.

The facts are the the top 6 English clubs are, collectively, stronger than the top 6 in the other European leagues - but in England there is a huge gulf between the top 6 and "the rest" . In Spain and Germany, "the rest" are relatively stronger. The 8th or 10th or 15th best Spanish and German teams are better than the 8th or 10th or 15th best English teams. So it's simply not true that Ronaldo and Messi get more easy games.
 
We had this debate about 6 weeks ago in the non- World Cup football thread. You keep on insisting that the English league is "more competitive", without looking at the data and without even defining what you mean.

The facts are the the top 6 English clubs are, collectively, stronger than the top 6 in the other European leagues - but in England there is a huge gulf between the top 6 and "the rest" . In Spain and Germany, "the rest" are relatively stronger. The 8th or 10th or 15th best Spanish and German teams are better than the 8th or 10th or 15th best English teams. So it's simply not true that Ronaldo and Messi get more easy games.


In my opinion Stewart, you are incorrect. Throw all the stats you like at me, when you see that the other top European leagues have a top 2 or 3, how can those leagues be stronger? Here there are 6, maybe 8 teams that challenge for the top 4 positions, in Spain there's 3, Germany 2, Italy 3.
 
Saw the love train for the 98th time and fell asleep..... missed the rest of the match.... there’s always a positive if you look hard enough
:)

In cases you missed it we did better than Holland, Italy, Chile, Germany, Portugal, Spain, Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay.... many of those will have more skilful players than us but football is a team game and often the most skilful don’t always win!!
 
In my opinion Stewart, you are incorrect. Throw all the stats you like at me, when you see that the other top European leagues have a top 2 or 3, how can those leagues be stronger? Here there are 6, maybe 8 teams that challenge for the top 4 positions, in Spain there's 3, Germany 2, Italy 3.

Agree. You don’t get the team bottom of the league beating Barca, yet that does happen in the EPL. It is the most competitive
 
My view of the tournament.
England had an easy group to qualify from which flattered them, and also a team (Panama) which they could use for target practice, and another which could have gone the same way, yet was not easy on the eye for fifty minutes.
Our record for the tournament was
Won 3 - Tunisia, Panama, Sweden
Draw 1 (won on penalties) - Columbia
Lost 3 - Belgium, Croatia, Belgium
That is not a good record.
When we won the World Cup in 1966, we drew against Uruguay, then beat France, Mexico, Argentina, Portugal and West Germany - quality opposition.
Today was not very impressive at all.
If Kane was not fit then don't play him.
If Sterling cannot score, then don't play him.
Our defenders cannot defend against good teams, good attackers - Belgium, Croatia.
None of our players seems to know how to play the ball out of defence on the ground, link up with midfield, then put good passes into our attackers.
There has been too much hype about this team, before and during the tournament.
As Gerry S pointed out in an earlier post, most of our players do not seem to possess instinctive skills, passing the ball is at times like watching young, coached players attempting to select a pass - watch ball, control and stop ball, look around, decide who to pass to (usually nearest bloke who is looking at you, who is going to do exactly the same as you have done). At this stage everything should be instinctive - even Columbia managed that after trying to kick us off the pitch in the first 60 minutes of the game.
Belgium's second goal this afternoon was a good example of passing at its best, as was their winning goal against Brazil.

This is not a stupid rant, it is frustration at something we should, could and possibly will be better at, but it will not happen if we mollycoddle this bunch of highly paid Pemier League professionals and refer to them as HEROES.

They aren't heroes, this isn't even the beginning of the end in them becoming heroes, but it might be the end of the beginning in them becoming heroes.:)

Maybe, BUT

- Tunisia are a decent side, ranked between Sweden and Croatia by FIFA. Yes, I will be the 1st to admit they are often wrong but they probably are indicative.
- Sweden topped a group including Germany and Mexico
- We won on penalties!!!

The reference to 66 is irrelevant. Only 16 teams took part and also times change. Remember the 80s when Turkey meant an 8-0 win? Well 20 years later they are getting to the semis in a WC. A lot of groups had two decent teams and two poor teams, yet we still got through and won 2 knockout games, remember that Spain who are better than is did far worse and Germany....

Kane did seem unfit last 2 games. I was a critic of Sterling but he does give us something, played well 1st half v Croatia. I thought our defenders generally did well. Shocking individual mistake by Rose who was garbage, and Jones, but the rest was good today. Remember we are playing against a good side and as others have pointed out, full of players like Hazard we need. Of course they will have attacks but Stones and Maguire snuffed most of them out.
 
In cases you missed it we did better than Holland, Italy, Chile, Germany, Portugal, Spain, Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay.... many of those will have more skilful players than us but football is a team game and often the most skilful don’t always win!!
Correct.... they played s*** as well
 
Agree. You don’t get the team bottom of the league beating Barca, yet that does happen in the EPL. It is the most competitive
Disagree. You don't get the team bottom of the league beating Man City either.

The reality is that mid-table English teams are not better than, and are probably not as good as, mid-table Spanish or German teams. Our league seems competitive because we usually don't have super-dominant teams like Real, Barca, Bayern, PSG or Juve. But if you want to see football that's "competitive" in this sense, why isn't everyone watching the Championship instead?
 
so many people s***ting all over england in social media. shocking really and the main highlights are that we are still crap and lucky to make it that far and plus we are arrogant?

what the hell are these lot talking about! the media and all of us here in england had no hope for england making it this far!!

and the its coming home is not arrogance, its a long running joke from us!
 
Well I like to be original if possible but I agree more or less with your "view of the tournament"

I said it earlier we are in big danger of letting the fact that we got to the semi-finals of the World cup cloud our view of the tournament and believe we are better than we are.

Yes they are young and yes they should ? get better but if you do not have the technical skills in your 20's you are not going to become world beaters.

You can only get so far on experience, organisation, hard work and team spirit.

However, like you I remain a supporter but one living in the real world and not wearing 'rose coloured spectacles"
greece won the euros with just pure grit, team spirit and organisation. You dont need to be technically giften individuals.

Look what happened to germany, spain and argentia. both perfomed worse then england.

what i dont understand is how come england dont have more gifted players considering they train with the likes of Hazard day in day out(the youth i imagine) ???
 
greece won the euros with just pure grit, team spirit and organisation. You dont need to be technically giften individuals.

Look what happened to germany, spain and argentia. both perfomed worse then england.

what i dont understand is how come england dont have more gifted players considering they train with the likes of Hazard day in day out(the youth i imagine) ???

Greece .? Well there will always be rare exceptions, where were Greece before those Euros and where are they since ?

Germany, Spain and Argentina are you using one bad tournament to suggest these teams over the years do not have “technically gifted individuals” ? Crikey ! I have lost count of how many bad tournaments we have had.

The finger has often been pointed at England’s school and youth footballs preoccupation with ‘winning football” at the expense of correct coaching in the ‘finer skills’

Training with Hazard and the like is not going to learn those ‘silky skllls’ as I said you need that ‘in your locker’ way before you reach your 20’ s. Sure you can improve under good coaching but the fundamentals need to be in place already.
 
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Greece .? Well there will always be rare exceptions, where were Greece before those Euros and where are they since ?

Germany, Spain and Argentina are you using one bad tournament to suggest these teams over the years do not have “technically gifted individuals” ? Crikey ! I have lost count of how many bad tournaments we have had.

The finger has often been pointed at England’s school and youth footballs preoccupation with ‘winning football” at the expense of correct coaching in the ‘finer skills’

Training with Hazard and the like is not going to learn those ‘silky skllls’ as I said you need that ‘in your locker’ way before you reach your 20’ s. Sure you can improve under good coaching but the fundamentals need to be in place already.

When Germany won in 2014, it was their fourth consecutive semi final or better performance.
I think that playing alongside the great players such as Hazard, De Bruyne and the like, actually flatters the English players, to the extent that the average football fan starts to believe that the English players are their equals.
 
In my opinion Stewart, you are incorrect. Throw all the stats you like at me, when you see that the other top European leagues have a top 2 or 3, how can those leagues be stronger? Here there are 6, maybe 8 teams that challenge for the top 4 positions, in Spain there's 3, Germany 2, Italy 3.

Quite correct, in La Liga Real Madrid have won 33 times and been runner up 23 times, Barcelona have won 25 times and been runners up 25 times. The next club is Athletico Madrid with 10 and 9. In Serie A, Juventus have 34 wins, AC Milan 18, Inter Milan 18. In the Bundesliga Bayern Munich have won 28 times and the next club in modern times is Borussia Dortmund, with 8 wins.
 
Same as Giroud, but sometimes its not about the goals, its about the players they drag out of position and space they make.
He’s been dragging them out of position for two years without scoring... he’s got himself in some really good scoring positions and just not known what to do with it.... you have to admit that its a tad frustrating.
 
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