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You HAVE got to be joking!!!@MatBin Electric Motorbike?
You HAVE got to be joking!!!@MatBin Electric Motorbike?
You haven't opened the link and looked at the graph have you? I've attached the file for you.
Data collected from forum members show all except 1 2013 or later (aka gen 2) health to be above 85%. Most beyond 2 year old gen 2 are near 90% mark.
For longer term, there's also this stat for Tesla aging, where majority hover at 95% mark: https://electrek.co/2016/11/01/tesla-battery-degradation/
Either way, degradation is not a problem. Battery doesn't just die.
But an ICE vehicle has thousands more moving parts, ergo thousands more potential points of failure. And there are many £10 part failures that cost hundreds or thousands in labour costs. Or even simply a £10 part that fails and creates catastrophic damage.
But... feel free
Average cost of servicing, MOT and maintenance over my 14 years of ownership is around £1000/year. Some of it would be needed on an EV, e.g. brake fluid changes (it absorbs water, you change it with age not use), bushes, suspension and steering, some wouldn't e.g. oil changes and spark plugs. I used an independent marque specialist and genuine parts so my costs are higher than going to a general garage. So say £500/year on the powertrain, or £40/month.How much was your new clutch? What was the total maintenance cost of your 18 year old car including ALL consumables and oil changes?
There are no yearly consumables in an EV powertrain. DPF replacement costs are going to be similar to battery cell replacement costs (when the service becomes available). The whole battery doesn't have to be changed in one go.
How much would a transfer box oil change cost? How much complexity does it add? How much maintenance does it add? Does it rob engine power? Does it reduce your car efficiency?
To be fair, early Prius batteries can now be had for under £2000, although the Mk3's are nearly £6k.That's really convincing - all 4 years of it!!!
If they are only getting 150bhp from a 1.4, they aren't trying very hard. Try 1.0 instead.Its all doable it just needs a mindset change away from traditional living. think back 30 years how many homes had computers. top end 2 litre cars put out 150BHP you can get that out of a 1.4 now.
If they are only getting 150bhp from a 1.4, they aren't trying very hard. Try 1.0 instead.
ford eco boost 1.0 hast 140bhp in the fiestaWhat production 1.0 l has 150bhp?
ford eco boost 1.0 hast 140bhp in the fiesta
Formula Ford Eco boost run them at 200bhp
Come on you knew it was goign to be ford
What downside is there to visiting a petrol station. Unless you live out in the boondogs and petrol stations are very scarce, you don't have to go far to find one, for me visiting one once a fortnight or so, takes 10 minutes out of my life, hardly anything to worry about.Yep, there are definitely some psychological barriers to overcome, and real ones for that matter.
I will say this though, you start to forgive many of the short comings when you never have to visit a petrol station again and waft around in silence. They're not perfect by any means but they're so easy to live with. It's quite nice making journey's and literally not having to give the cost of doing so even a moments thought. Like I say, not for everyone but it's worth mentioning some up sides.
The Formula Ford was just a one off, originally it was nearer to 250ps but it was detuned to 200ps as they found the extra 50 made the car tail end happy and a tad uncontrollable.ford eco boost 1.0 hast 140bhp in the fiesta
Formula Ford Eco boost run them at 200bhp
Come on you knew it was goign to be ford
Currently the 1.0 Ecoboost is available as 100ps, 125ps, and 140ps, Mountune can provide a few little tweaks and a bigger intercooler to take it up to 165ps. M-SPORT, have a production class rally car using the 1.0 Ecoboost and again without heavily reworking the standard engine, produces 180ps.140 in the eco boost. Looks like 125 ps?!
What downside is there to visiting a petrol station. Unless you live out in the boondogs and petrol stations are very scarce, you don't have to go far to find one, for me visiting one once a fortnight or so, takes 10 minutes out of my life, hardly anything to worry about.
At the moment, but you do have these simplistic views.
You point links to graphs showing how EV ownership is going to rise exponentially over the next 5 years, then say this won't cause any issue with demand, and anyway everyone can have a solar setup, but ignore the capabilities of these in relation to the requirements of the vehicle. 4Kw on your roof, backed by a 4Kw battery give you a maximum of 25 miles range
Businesses are looking at the potential issues and are planning accordingly, owners have to recognise this as well. Same as when electricity goes up because EV's are putting a dent in fuel duty revenue.
Can't wait for a few years time, hopefully it'll all be sorted out then. Economy, range, performance would be a winning combination.
I had to attend a very boring 3hr course on high voltage EV and hybrid vehicles today. To complete the course there is another 2 parts to take but for what I need at the moment, I only need part 1.
From what I got from the course, I am not authorised to work on any of the high voltage components or any of the wiring. All high voltage wiring and plugs should be orange universally. In 2017 slow charge plugs changed from 5 pin to 7 pin. There is an additional 2 pin plug for the fast charge. Batteries do lose their charge capacity over time, although not all the cells lose that capacity at the same rate. When recharging the reduced capacity cells charge first before the remaining cells. This ensures the battery gets charged as much as it's reduced capacity will allow. Some batteries are air cooled, some are cooled with a coolant. It is the coolant which can cause a fire in the event of a crash and is why cars have to be quarantined to make sure a fire doesn't start after the car is moved.
Some fire brigades are under the wrongful impression that a car is safe if the 12V battery power is isolated, this does not isolate the high voltage.
Average cost of servicing, MOT and maintenance over my 14 years of ownership is around £1000/year. Some of it would be needed on an EV, e.g. brake fluid changes (it absorbs water, you change it with age not use), bushes, suspension and steering, some wouldn't e.g. oil changes and spark plugs. I used an independent marque specialist and genuine parts so my costs are higher than going to a general garage. So say £500/year on the powertrain, or £40/month.
Transfer box oil change? Like gearboxes, many don't even have drain plugs, the oil is in for life. It typically adds no maintenance, or twenty quid every six years for a gallon of EP80. I've owned six 4wd vehicles and apart from a couple of years have always had at least one since 1994. I've never had a transfer box failure. I've never had a gearbox failure either. The only non-friction transmission component I've ever had fail is a rear axle CWP assembly (the pinion shaft snapped while towing a 2000kg load, on a series 2A Land Rover leaving it front wheel drive only. Doubtless there's an EV to fulfill the Land Rover offroad towing role that I don't know about) - do EVs have axles, or do they have a motor per wheel?
That doesn't seem right to me. £500 a year is a lot of money. Annual service should be £200 to £300 depending minor/major and this includes generic car stuff (suspension checks etc) as well.
But 4kW on the roof doesn't equate to 4kWh of generation.........
Battery cells do loose capacity at different rates. This is why occasional 100% charge is important to balance the cell. Also, there will be battery recondition services in the future, to swap out knackered cells and restore most of battery capacity.
For EV, there isn't anything to do on the powertrain. So after 10 years you have effectively saved a new battery worth of money by not servicing the ICE powertrain.
Are you sure you know the difference between energy and power? This is throughout all your previous posts.4Kw of storage
You really have no idea about how these batterys work do you and the amount of research and technology going into them. The way they are made, the protective shell, the plastic coverings, it's not cost effective to swap individual cells, easy to identify individual cells without the whole unit being out, at which point you swap the whole battery. An obvious example here is the cost of a MK1 and Mk2 Prius battery is now just over £1200.
Oh sorry, haven't seen it in the last few pages. Answer is Stationary battery, where energy density and weight doesn't matter, cost matters. Batteries are very flexible and modular.And you still haven't answered my question of what happens to the batteries at end of life.
When that time comes, EV will be able to replace ICE cars....... when infrastructure also improves.For you and your choice, yet several manufacturers are looking at putting in drive trains to increase performance,range and so make them more attractive to all users, not just short local journeys.
I caught something on the TV at the gym a few days ago (no sound and poor subtitles) but the gist of it was there is a lot of the raw materials buried in sea beds around the world, machinery is currently being constructed to mine it.Then there's reports into obtaining the metals etc needed for the batteries in the first place
https://www.theguardian.com/sustain...en-environmental-cost-electric-cars-batteries
Yes, that's exactly what main dealers will do, and it may be cost effective to do this due to warranty they will offer. But for independent garages (when they start offering this service as ICE maintenance work dwindles) swapping out cells at cheaper price. All you have to do is: remove the battery, disconnect cells, replace bad ones. The BMS readout (eg. using Leafspy) can identify bad cells without opening and testing each one.
Leaf 24kWh have 48 cell-blocks IIRC. Replace 2 bad ones. Labour cost will probably double but battery cost is 1/24th, may be cheaper if there are second hand parts market (eg. breakers sell tested cells)
If I have a ramp and lifting equipment, I'd be happy to DIY this. But I wouldn't work on the dirty, oily.
I thought you said you've only been on part 1 of the course which does not authorise you to work on HV parts. How does that make you an expert in assessing other people?As I mentioned last night, I was on an EV and Hybrid training course yesterday, held by a man who had been working in the field for the last 10yrs.
From what I learnt yesterday regarding the batteries, how they are charged and constructed, I have come to the conclusion that your knowledge of EV and hybrid batteries and the powertrain is about as good as your knowledge of an internal combustion engine. Both can be fitted together on the back of a 1st class postage stamp.
If I have a ramp and lifting equipment, I'd be happy to DIY this. But I wouldn't work on the dirty, oily ICE.
End of life not end of car life. Recycling the materials inside has a huge environmental impact, as does mining them in the first place - just so you have the full story for your green credentials.Answer is Stationary battery, where energy density and weight doesn't matter, cost matters. Batteries are very flexible and modular.
...write off EV based on unfounded rumours spread by the established.
Probably the bit about removing dead battery cells from what is a sealed unit and the fact you would be prepared to carry out the task yourself if you had a car ramp. Part 1 of the course basically highlights all the dangers. Part 1 authorised me to work on an EV or hybrid car as far as my employer is concerned. But if I have to work on anything close to any of the high voltage systems, then the system has to be unplugged and isolated. That unplugging and isolation can only be done by someone who has completed all 3 parts. Having completed part 2 allows someone to work on the high voltage systems, but again only if someone with part 3 isolates the system first.I thought you said you've only been on part 1 of the course which does not authorise you to work on HV parts. How does that make you an expert in assessing other people?
Which part of my last post was false? It'd be good to learn from the expert.
Probably some of them were adopters of the Prius and because of their attitude earned it the aka Pious.At the moment EV owners seem to be basking in a euphoria of smugness without thinking of the bigger picture.
But it's not to say driving an EV within its daily range is fool's errand. Far from it. My family runs a diesel for longer trips and an EV for local runs. The 1-5 miles local trips throughout the day is sooooooooooooo much cheaper and nicer in the EV (preheating!). Cherry on top is we bought the EV for £9000 (inc battery), similar price to a second hand petrol town runabout, so why would anyone choose the latter?
Probably some of them were adopters of the Prius and because of their attitude earned it the aka Pious.
The dangers are clear and all the risks can be easily managed. Employee safety training is standard practice, but for DIY projects this is not necessary as long as precautions are taken. People treat HV battery like an evil box that will kill you (oh it will without electrical knowledge) but with the correct knowledge it can be easily disassembled.
Are you sure you know the difference between energy and power? This is throughout all your previous posts.
Yes, that's exactly what main dealers will do, and it may be cost effective to do this due to warranty they will offer. But for independent garages (when they start offering this service as ICE maintenance work dwindles) swapping out cells at cheaper price. All you have to do is: remove the battery, disconnect cells, replace bad ones. The BMS readout (eg. using Leafspy) can identify bad cells without opening and testing each one.
Leaf 24kWh have 48 cell-blocks IIRC. Replace 2 bad ones. Labour cost will probably double but battery cost is 1/24th, may be cheaper if there are second hand parts market (eg. breakers sell tested cells)
If I have a ramp and lifting equipment, I'd be happy to DIY this. But I wouldn't work on the dirty, oily ICE.
Oh sorry, haven't seen it in the last few pages. Answer is Stationary battery, where energy density and weight doesn't matter, cost matters. Batteries are very flexible and modular.
When that time comes, EV will be able to replace ICE cars....... when infrastructure also improves.
My point is there are already savings to be had by going EV, if your usage pattern and situation allows. Unfortunately not enough people realise this and write off EV based on unfounded rumours spread by the established.
If the battery cells are coolant cooled, opening up the sealed unit certainly won't be a dot job and probably will require certified specialist people to open them up. In the course I attended yesterday, we were told of an EV that had been involved in a front end accident. To learn more of the vehicle and it's safety, the high voltage was immobilized and the car mounted on a jig for inspection. The jig allows the car to be rotated and as a result the cooling fluid moved within the sealed unit. This caused a chemical reaction within the battery pack and it caught light. Hence why crashed Ev's now have to be quarantined and why only qualified and certified people should work on them. Being safety consious does not make you qualified.The dangers are clear and all the risks can be easily managed. Employee safety training is standard practice, but for DIY projects this is not necessary as long as precautions are taken. People treat HV battery like an evil box that will kill you (oh it will without electrical knowledge) but with the correct knowledge it can be easily disassembled.
Sealed unit doesn't mean it cannot be opened. Sealed for life gearbox still get taken apart by independent if they are inclined. Some dealers still recommend oil changes on sealed gearboxes.
I have pointed this out many times. but you seem to ignore it and read my other comments as insistence on you to personally buy one.You've consistently quoted predictions from EV user groups when if you Google about there are just as many nightmare stories of unreliability,lack of infrastructure rubbish range and charging inconsistency. You also quote rubbish about EVs being maintenance free and batteries being easily swappable. I've recently gone through the exercise of changing a car and was open minded about EV and hybrids and if you dig beneath the surface EV is far from the utopia you paint. I don't disagree that it may work for some people but only some in certain circumstances and changing your property to an EV friendly charging station is a non starter for most normal people. EV has its place and will undoubtedly succeed but not yet, its in most peoples minds but its not sufficiently user friendly yet for the general for the general motoring public. If you could accept that it works for you and will not yet solve everyone's motoring needs you'd be taken a little more seriously!
If you read the bold statement while remembering each cell have a rated charge cycle. You'll realise the degraded cells will degrade slightly quicker as it gains slightly more charge cycle than healthier cells. After thousands of cycles, the degraded ones will have had more cycles than healthier ones AND able to hold less charge AND have higher internal resistance.any cells that are reduced in capacity will recharge first before the healhier cells, this prevents the degraded cells being degraded too far in advance of the healthier cells. Result being if cells are degraded enough to require replacement, the healthier cells won't be far behind, and the whole lot should be replaced to be economically effective.
What production 1.0 l has 150bhp?
Mines only got 130 from it's 1.05 ltr engine, then again it doesnt have a turbopretty much every motorbike built in the last 20 years
there will never be problems charging at home on your own driveway
Read what I have said again. (My info as already pointed out comes from someone with at least 10yrs experience working in EV and hybrid system development) . The degrading cells are recharged first until they receive the maximum character can now hold, then the healthier cells recharge. It isn't a case of either / or. All cells receive the exact same number of recharge cycles.If you read the bold statement while remembering each cell have a rated charge cycle. You'll realise the degraded cells will degrade slightly quicker as it gains slightly more charge cycle than healthier cells. After thousands of cycles, the degraded ones will have had more cycles than healthier ones AND able to hold less charge AND have higher internal resistance.
The whole lot does not need to be replaced. Only the highest internal resistance ones need to be replaced. You can go from 60% health back to almost 80% health using this method. This is in fact the method Nissan will take going by their warranty documents "restore battery capacity back to 8 (or 9, I can't recall) health bars". But due to low amount of warranty claims, they'll just fit a new battery.