Are Red Kites A Threat?

[russellsnr]

Hi, I placed photo's on many sites of Red Kites my latest was on the Facebook page of Dumfries & Galloway Wildlife & Birding and has opened up a bit of a debate as to weather the Kites should have been reintroduced to the UK?
An article for you to read from The Spectator publication if you wish before you make any replies.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article... livestock,List of great conservation concern

Thanks, Russ.

 

[DemiLion]

I'd say that he makes a very strong case. The Red Kite population has exploded in the last ten years and the problem isn't going to go away.

 

[the black fox]

Working on the assumption he is correct ,and adding the fact they had previously been native to the u.k for thousands of years .that would imply that due to the red kites there would be no native population of ,skylarks , lapwings , ducks, geese or anything else he mentions ..
I’m totally amazed the writer didn’t pull further on the heart strings by invoking cats,dogs and human babies …
typical spectator style biased reporting . Overdramatised b******t

 

[Tulipone]

We have red kites in our local area and we love to watch them soaring and swooping, so graceful. I have no idea if they are decimating fledglings - they have so much competition with crows and magpies. It seems also that fledgling pigeons must not taste nice - they really seem to have boomed recently.

 

[Gav.]

We have a fair number here, mostly hang over the village, only see one or two in the fields unless hay is being cut, but even then Kestrals gather in numbers fighting for their share along with the Corvids!

Never seen them pick up anything alive.

We have high number of Skylarks in the fields too.

Chilterns have high numbers due to people feeding them there.. if public feed any animal, the numbers will climb, just look in towns with flying rats..

If less houses were bing built there would be more room for their natural quarry to live and for them to hunt in.

Not looking for a war, just adding some thoughts, I could be wrong

 

[nandbytes]

I have seen one or two circling over my house. Really wish they'd pick up all pigeons in the area that are ruining my garden and then some. But they don't

But definitely seeing less of smaller birds. This area used to full of goldfinches and I haven't seen a single one recently.

 

[ancient_mariner]

We've had a couple move in very close this spring, and almost all our LBJs have disappeared. Probably not eaten, but have relocated.

 

[Gav.]

Really wish they'd pick up all pigeons in the area that are ruining my garden and then some. But they don't

They'll never be able to, well atleast that's my understanding of them

 

[nandbytes]

They'll never be able to, well atleast that's my understanding of them

Probably not, I have seen pigeons chase away a sparrow hawk in the past. They are super annoying to my photography too

 

[gramps]

Red Kites are scavengers and will only take live prey as a last resort.

 

[nandbytes]

Red Kites are scavengers and will only take live prey as a last resort.

So you are suggesting I shoot all the pigeons first?

 

[Gav.]

So you are suggesting I shoot all the pigeons first?

Only if you like using removing the shot from the bird

 

[nog]

He used the decline in red squirrel numbers due to competition for food as an example, pretty sure decline is due to the pox and habitat loss.

 

[sirch]

The huntin' shootin' fishin' brigade have long believed that birds of prey are a threat to their "fun" because the raptors are taking game. It's mainly not true and certainly not in any significant number, and even if it was the case it is not morally defensible to kill predators just so that one can have the occasional days shootin'

 

[nandbytes]

Only if you like using removing the shot from the bird

Just need to make sure the bullet goes through. I hear snipers are pretty good at that.

 

[Plain Nev]

I always thought that roadkill was their preferred diet.

 

[nandbytes]

I always thought that roadkill was their preferred diet.

I believe so too
I live behind a train line. Think they circle over the train line for rail "road kills".

 

[Gav.]

The huntin' shootin' fishin' brigade have long believed that birds of prey are a threat to their "fun" because the raptors are taking game. It's mainly not true and certainly not in any significant number, and even if it was the case it is not morally defensible to kill predators just so that one can have the occasional days shootin'

I agree, I know a local fishing club who are dead against Otters and Kingfishers, they've even shot the nature reserves images on the sign

 

[Jelster]

We have loads here in this part of Wiltshire, but my garden also has large numbers of Goldfinches, Sparrows, Starlings, Great & Blue Tits, plus chaffinches and Dunnocks. Not forgetting the Wood pigeons & Collared Doves, so I guess they aren't hitting garden birds that bad. The farmland on the hills has Skylarks & Stonechats, as well as a few garden birds but there are a huge number of corvids, far too many than is healthy in my opinion....

 

[fujilover]

I see Red Kites every day, there are loads of them in my area.

I never thought about them as a thread, Crows seem to easily beat them in a fight so i never viewed them as a particularly good bird of prey lol

 

[Plain Nev]

Crows are always bullying the Buzzards around here. They are similar to Kites, insofar as they prefer easy pickings.

 

[Cobra]

I see about half a dozen from my garden, usually its a couple of "pairs" at any one time though.

I "know" the people that were involved in re-seeding the population ( same Falconry club, they used to keep us updated at the meetings) along the Beldlow ridge, ( part of the Chilterns,) back in '89 / '90. Within 10 years there were whispers of a cull, as they never expected them to be so so successful. (Competing with our buzzards mainly )

Its a bit of a quandary because there have always been small pockets of kites, (the indigenous ones.)
These however were sourced from Spain. (Non indigenous) And of course may have a slightly different genetic make up.
Under normal circumstances it is illegal to release non indigenous species into the wild...
Can they be sure they are only culling the Spanish ones? I doubt it.

They very quickly spread along the M40 corridor and branched out from there.
As already noted they are scavengers, and at one land fill I used to do bird control on, (near Gerrads Cross)
Early one morning I counted ( the best I could) 60 in the same thermal.
The dark coloured funnel, rising up was quite a sight to see!

And yes they were feeding there, the same as, I have a landfill site not that far from me, as the kite fly's, and a lot more can be seen, once you get closer.

When they first appeared here a few years ago, there were several articles in the local press about them snatching small dogs, which of course would have been
total rubbish, yes they are big birds but I doubt very much that their feet / Talons are big enough / strong enough to hold and carry away, a wriggling snarling small dog.
BoP's generally weigh up food source V not getting hurt in the process.

The other one that made me chuckle there was a couple of reports from a local school that kites were snatching sandwiches out of the hands of children.
IF it happened, I suggested that people learn to tell the difference between Red Kites and Gulls.
Which there is quite a large flock in the area, coming over, again, from the landfill looking for food, from over flowing bins,
from the local-ish food factories and fast food places.

Would I cull them if it was up to me? I honestly don't know, but I doubt it, they are making a nice living here scavenging, which is far easier than "Killing"
I still see buzzards on occasions, so I'm guessing their is plenty of food for everyone around these parts at least..

 

[4wd]

In the past two weeks I saw one grab a half grown lapwing chick and a baby rabbit, they can have as many rabbits as they like but why the bird groups put out lies about them only eating carrion and earthworms I do not know,
Well I do know because like all green inspired groups they think it's Ok to tell lies to further their cause.

 

[Gav.]

At least with our numbers being high, they are able to export them (Back) to Spain again

 

[Cobra]

In the past two weeks I saw one grab a half grown lapwing chick and a baby rabbit, they can have as many rabbits as they like but why the bird groups put out lies about them only eating carrion and earthworms I do not know,
Well I do know because like all green inspired groups they think it's Ok to tell lies to further their cause.

I don't disbelieve believe you, but all the ones I've seen I've never seen one kill, only scavenge.
Of course as they become more and more successful, and food becomes /is scarce, in the area's they move into, they have to adapt, to survive.

 

[Jelster]

I have seen a Kite take a fish (live) from the surface of a lake. I was sitting there fishing when one swooped in just like an Osprey. The guy that owned the lake said that it only seemed like one particular bird had learned to do this, and as they only took the Rudd & Roach and not the Carp he wasn't that worried. Made me jump though.

 

[Dale.]

I was suprised to learn a few years ago that Red kites are Schedule 1 birds.

We have them nearby, even a few sightings over where we live, although, I've not seen one here myself. Travel 1/2 hour down the road though and that's where they start to be seen in numbers.

My take is this, I could be wrong. Our wildlife faces a multitude of threats. Seagulls for example, will take live chicks, particularly ground or cliff nesting ones, they probably do a lot more damage than kites do. Seagulls are just one example.

That's not to say a Red kite has never done the same thing but in the main, they are scavengers.

Kites had their place in our ecosystem pre thier persecution in the 1800s and 1900s, I firmly believe they have their place in it now.

 

[Cobra]

Seagulls for example, will take live chicks, particularly ground or cliff nesting ones,

Gulls are a nightmare that's for sure, do people look at the pretty Jays the same way though.

 

[gramps]

Seagulls for example, will take live chicks, particularly ground or cliff nesting ones, they probably do a lot more damage than kites do

Absolutely true - when I used to regularly visit WWT Slimbridge the young broods of Avocet, Lapwing, & Black-headedGulls were decimated by Gulls, particularly the Lesser Black-backed.

 

[gramps]

Gulls are a nightmare that's for sure, do people look at the pretty Jays the same way though.

and Magpies decimate young fledglings around the gardens.

 

[Cobra]

and Magpies decimate young fledglings around the gardens.

TBH mostly all corvids are the same.

Black-headedGulls were decimated by Gulls,

I must admit I'm slightly surprised by that, especially how feisty Black headed gulls are.
Especially when one of their number has been pinned to the ground by a BoP.

 

[gramps]

I must admit I'm slightly surprised by that, especially how feisty Black headed gulls are.
Especially when one of their number has been pinned to the ground by a BoP.

They would even take quite large chicks, I particularly remember one twice lifting and dropping the same chick as it was too heavy for it. The BHG colony would always fly up and chase when a chick was taken but it was to no avail.

 

[GeeJay57]

I’ve seen gulls on the Dee estuary taking Water Rail and pretty much anything else they can catch. Voracious predators when the opportunity presents.

 

[sphexx]

Working on the assumption he is correct ,and adding the fact they had previously been native to the u.k for thousands of years .that would imply that due to the red kites there would be no native population of ,skylarks , lapwings , ducks, geese or anything else he mentions ..

I’m not anti red kite but your argument is rubbish I’m sorry to say. The British Isles were a completely different environment/ecosystem over the the thousands of years you cite! I think you’ll agree on reflection .

I’m totally amazed the writer didn’t pull further on the heart strings by invoking cats,dogs and human babies …
typical spectator style biased reporting . Overdramatised b******t

I didn’t read the article (paywalled) but I expect it is a bit biased nevertheless I expect it’s true that kites sometimes take live (mostly young I expect) prey but I haven’t personally observed it. I live quite near a kite release site and a local farmer told me that there had been a marked decrease in ground nesting birds since the kites appeared. I can’t vouch for that but can say that on the same farm hares had stopped lying out in seats in open fields — they were still present in the surrounding coppice willow plantations — there may have been the same number, difficult to say.

I doubt this would be due to predation but maybe the birds/hares regarded the area as unsafe with these large BoP circling.

 

[Plain Nev]

I doubt this would be due to predation but maybe the birds/hares regarded the area as unsafe with these large BoP circling.

That would do it. They recognise the shape of a predator.

 

[sphexx]

That would do it. They recognise the shape of a predator.

Too right. My cockerels use to give alarm calls for red kites (pretty common over my garden) … but also sometimes to very high flying passenger aircraft so they didn’t always get it right. But I daresay other birds are made edgy by all kinds of aerial sights that might be a threat.

 

[myotis]

I see about half a dozen from my garden, usually its a couple of "pairs" at any one time though.

I "know" the people that were involved in re-seeding the population ( same Falconry club, they used to keep us updated at the meetings) along the Beldlow ridge, ( part of the Chilterns,) back in '89 / '90. Within 10 years there were whispers of a cull, as they never expected them to be so so successful. (Competing with our buzzards mainly )

Its a bit of a quandary because there have always been small pockets of kites, (the indigenous ones.)
These however were sourced from Spain. (Non indigenous) And of course may have a slightly different genetic make up.
Under normal circumstances it is illegal to release non indigenous species into the wild...
Can they be sure they are only culling the Spanish ones? I doubt it.

They very quickly spread along the M40 corridor and branched out from there.
As already noted they are scavengers, and at one land fill I used to do bird control on, (near Gerrads Cross)
Early one morning I counted ( the best I could) 60 in the same thermal.
The dark coloured funnel, rising up was quite a sight to see!

And yes they were feeding there, the same as, I have a landfill site not that far from me, as the kite fly's, and a lot more can be seen, once you get closer.

When they first appeared here a few years ago, there were several articles in the local press about them snatching small dogs, which of course would have been
total rubbish, yes they are big birds but I doubt very much that their feet / Talons are big enough / strong enough to hold and carry away, a wriggling snarling small dog.
BoP's generally weigh up food source V not getting hurt in the process.

The other one that made me chuckle there was a couple of reports from a local school that kites were snatching sandwiches out of the hands of children.
IF it happened, I suggested that people learn to tell the difference between Red Kites and Gulls.
Which there is quite a large flock in the area, coming over, again, from the landfill looking for food, from over flowing bins,
from the local-ish food factories and fast food places.

Would I cull them if it was up to me? I honestly don't know, but I doubt it, they are making a nice living here scavenging, which is far easier than "Killing"
I still see buzzards on occasions, so I'm guessing their is plenty of food for everyone around these parts at least..

Between 1900 and 1939, there were between 4 and 10 pairs in Wales (various references) Today there are over 400 pairs in Wales. The Chiltern population is about 200 pairs and the Scottish population is around 35 pairs (RSPB web site)

When we moved from Wales to Somerset 16 years ago we saw a few red kites a year (flying over the house). Now we see them almost every week. We had four birds at the same time last week (being attacked by about 50 jackdaws). We now see them almost as often as buzzards

I'm sure I can detect a welsh accent when they call

My info here is all a bit out of date, but the main part of their diet seems to be small mammals (50 -60%) voles and mice but also rats, young rabbits and young hares.

Scavenging carrion and feeding on landfill seems next most important, (up to 50%) but vulnerable young birds, fish, snakes, amphibians and insects also feature in the diet.

Carrion seems more important outside the breeding season and small mammals more important during breeding season. But the exact make up of the diet varies across Europe. and individual birds can specialise on a narrow range of food items. The full list of food items is pretty exhaustive, but they don't seem super-skilled at catching live prey, dropping on them from perches rather than impressive hunting techniques, or mugging other birds that are carrying food they have caught. The high flying seems associated with looking for carrion rather than hunting for live prey.

This is from various references I have lying around, which as I said are all rather old and I've only skimmed through.

 

[gramps]

My info here is all a bit out of date, but the main part of their diet seems to be small mammals (50 -60%) voles and mice but also rats, young rabbits and young hares.

Scavenging carrion and feeding on landfill seems next most important, (up to 50%) but vulnerable young birds, fish, snakes, amphibians and insects also feature in the diet.

I think that is out of date - as in plain wrong.
They may at times take ‘live’ but by far the largest part of their diet is by scavenging (including meat left out at feeding stations, which they readily take and queue up for!).

 

[myotis]

I think that is out of date - as in plain wrong.
They may at times take ‘live’ but by far the largest part of their diet is by scavenging (including meat left out at feeding stations, which they readily take and queue up for!).

I realise there are now some feeding stations for kites (I have visited them a few times) but I have no information on what proportion of their diet these places provide.

My information that summarises a couple of dozen studies from across Europe (including Wales) probably predates places like Gigrin farm etc.

But as the kites expand their range (such as the birds we are now seeing in Somerset) such feeding stations may or may not be available so these earlier studies are still be potentially useful when discussing what the birds might be eating.

 

[jerry12953]

ts a bit of a quandary because there have always been small pockets of kites, (the indigenous ones.)

The only small "pocket" of indigenous red kites was in central Wales; they may have been down to a handful of pairs, possibly ten, during the 2nd world war. During the war , keepering was at a very low level, and the kites began a very, very slow increase. Almost all the welsh kites are descended from one female, genetic studies have shown, so they were THAT close to extinction. It was a German bird, IIRC. There was some tinkering with the breeding population over the decades (ie moving eggs from nest to nest and the like) but all Welsh birds are genuine , proper red kites, unlike the imports and their descendants found elsewhere in the UK. They are now very very common, in fact there were about 8 breeding pairs within a mile along the valley sides below my house this year. Some Welsh kites have been taken for re-introduction projects in Ireland, apparently.

I have seen estimates that there may be as many as 2500 pairs of kites in Wales now.