At last London is taking dirty diesel seriously

GeeJay57 said:
Not just the UK government, cities, people, drivers etc. Poor air quality is an issue for cities across the globe and not just as a result of diesel cars, trucks, vans and buses either.
Click to expand...

Of course it is a problem. Coal and diesel power stations, factories all emit pollution. This is particularly bad in the industrial Germany where you feel like gassed driving through certain urban areas.

Then we have horrible and in many cases intentional pollution of drinking water (fluoride, bleach, residues of drugs and pharmaceuticals), and horrible pesticides and herbicides on our food, GMOs, hydrogenated fat, sugar overload, etc, etc. If that is not enough they even offer you free abortion. Of course that is a big bloody problem!

However, they only care to point one thing out that is going to take out people's ability to move around freely. (War on toxic petrol to follow shortly as I already said before - mark my words). This is done intentionally to control population in the cities and prop up multinational companies like Uber. What an utter bunch of rotten fruit cakes.
 
LongLensPhotography said:
Of course it is a problem. Coal and diesel power stations, factories all emit pollution. This is particularly bad in the industrial Germany where you feel like gassed driving through certain urban areas.

Then we have horrible and in many cases intentional pollution of drinking water (fluoride, bleach, residues of drugs and pharmaceuticals), and horrible pesticides and herbicides on our food, GMOs, hydrogenated fat, sugar overload, etc, etc. If that is not enough they even offer you free abortion. Of course that is a big bloody problem!

However, they only care to point one thing out that is going to take out people's ability to move around freely. (War on toxic petrol to follow shortly as I already said before - mark my words). This is done intentionally to control population in the cities and prop up multinational companies like Uber. What an utter bunch of rotten fruit cakes.
Click to expand...

It gives me a headache just trying to think down to your level
 
According to a radio news item earlier, it seems that it may soon be an offence to have your car "idling" in a public place..
One place that was given as an example was out side schools.

But they never specified Diesel or Petrol driven though ;)
 
Cobra said:
According to a radio news item earlier, it seems that it may soon be an offence to have your car "idling" in a public place..
One place that was given as an example was out side schools.

But they never specified Diesel or Petrol driven though ;)
Click to expand...
This is something that annoys me - people sitting in their cars for 15-20 minutes with the engine running. How much effort does it take to turn the key?
 
neil_g said:
I once also heard that starting the engine caused more gasses than having the engine idle.
Click to expand...
More fuel, more wear and tear, but you would assume that is now "Under control" with this stop start technology thing that is all the rage.
Wouldn't you?
 
neil_g said:
Depends if your know how long you'll be sat for I guess.

I once also heard that starting the engine caused more gasses than having the engine idle.
Click to expand...
3 seconds - leave the engine running.
20 minutes - the engine needs to be off.

I was referring to people who sit for a long time.
 
Near where I live all the creature collectors arrive in their cars 30 minutes before horrid buggers finish loads of them sit with engine and AC running. Mind you most are fat buggers that need keeping cool
 
john.margetts said:
This is something that annoys me - people sitting in their cars for 15-20 minutes with the engine running. How much effort does it take to turn the key?
Click to expand...
A great deal of effort for me as I don't have any keys. ;)
 
Cobra said:
More fuel, more wear and tear, but you would assume that is now "Under control" with this stop start technology thing that is all the rage.
Wouldn't you?
Click to expand...
For stop/start all that is needed are updated starter motor, battery and alternator. There is no extra wear and tear very little fuel is used in starting an engine and as stop start only works when the engine is warm enough, it isn't likely to produce higher emissions than at idle.
 
nilagin said:
There is no extra wear and tear very little fuel is used in starting an engine and as stop start only works when the engine is warm enough, it isn't likely to produce higher emissions than at idle.
Click to expand...
Fairy nuff I have no idea how that stuff works, nor do I intend to find out ;)
 
nilagin said:
For stop/start all that is needed are updated starter motor, battery and alternator. There is no extra wear and tear very little fuel is used in starting an engine and as stop start only works when the engine is warm enough, it isn't likely to produce higher emissions than at idle.
Click to expand...

Don't forget the need for better crankshaft journal bearings, higher spec oil and potentially an electric pump to keep that turbo cool during the idle periods. Of course, the standard kit will work but wear out a lot quicker.
 
LongLensPhotography said:
Don't forget the need for better crankshaft journal bearings, higher spec oil and potentially an electric pump to keep that turbo cool during the idle periods. Of course, the standard kit will work but wear out a lot quicker.
Click to expand...
They don't require any of that as there is no extra wear from the stop start to the engine.
 
Last edited:
nilagin said:
They don't require any of that as there is no extra wear from the stop start to the engine.
Click to expand...
Not true.

An engine always stops with one cylinder on compression. This means for example in an inline four cylinder engine, when the starter motor engages, it does so in one of two places. Each time the engine is started, the ring gear teeth suffer some stress and wear. Additional starts caused by frequent stop/start systems can result in additional wear on the starter motor, battery and flywheel ring gear. Also as oil pressure drops to zero when the engine is stationary, there is a risk of additional wear in the valve-train and other moving components within the engine that have to rely on boundary lubrication when static.

Extended idling is bad for the engine (and environment) too and impacts fuel economy. So this is not a good thing especially in cities with big traffic jams.

The main reason stop/start systems have been introduced is because Idling during an emissions test is unlikely to yield good overall CO2/fuel economy figures.
 
GeeJay57 said:
Not true.

An engine always stops with one cylinder on compression. This means for example in an inline four cylinder engine, when the starter motor engages, it does so in one of two places. Each time the engine is started, the ring gear teeth suffer some stress and wear. Additional starts caused by frequent stop/start systems can result in additional wear on the starter motor, battery and flywheel ring gear. Also as oil pressure drops to zero when the engine is stationary, there is a risk of additional wear in the valve-train and other moving components within the engine that have to rely on boundary lubrication when static.
Click to expand...
Ford test engines to in excess of 300,000 stop starts procedures to check battery, alternator, flywheel ring gear starter motors etc. Far in excess of what an engine is likely to endure in a vehicles lifetime. There is no more wear than an engine without stop start. I would assume other manufacturers follow a similar test for their engines.
 
Cobra said:
According to a radio news item earlier, it seems that it may soon be an offence to have your car "idling" in a public place..
One place that was given as an example was out side schools.

But they never specified Diesel or Petrol driven though ;)
Click to expand...
Good!

I always shut off engine as soon as possible, whenever possible. Love the stop-start tech in my new car. I just don't get why people would start the engine and then sit configure their sat-nav or look at their phones for 5min before driving off. Similarly, why would people NOT shut off their engine when they have the slightest possibility to wait for a while?

If the car isn't moving, shut it off. If it's hot, get out of the car or wind down the window. If it's cold, put on another layer. If it were compulsory to breath a small portion of the exhaust gas while operating a car, I bet people would be more inclined to turn off their engine whenever possible! Simply because people are selfish!
 
wuyanxu said:
If it's hot, get out of the car or wind down the window.
Click to expand...

That won't work in a traffic jam & if it's a hot sunny day it won't cool you like the air con will. ;)

wuyanxu said:
If it's cold, put on another layer.
Click to expand...

You'll be telling us to use sheepskin seat covers next. :D & even they won't defrost/de-mist the windscreen! ;)
 
Last edited:
nilagin said:
Get a car with a heated screen. I haven't scraped a windscreen in over 20 years. It's clear in less than a minute.
Click to expand...

Ahhh, but they cost extra dosh. :D

Daughter has a newish Volvo XC90 with loads of fancy kit. I think you can even set it to warm the seats before you come out of the house! :eek:
 
OldCarlos said:
That won't work in a traffic jam & if it's a hot sunny day it won't cool you like the air con will. ;)
Click to expand...
I very rarely use the aircon. A blast of max aircon for a couple of minutes and then switch it to just cold air and it continue to blow cold air for 1/2 an hour or more. As for when at a standstill. I open all the windows and enjoy the sunshine.
 
OldCarlos said:
Ahhh, but they cost extra dosh. :D

Daughter has a newish Volvo XC90 with loads of fancy kit. I think you can even set it to warm the seats before you come out of the house! :eek:
Click to expand...

All my cars for the last 20 years or more have had heated screens as standard . Last 3 cars have had heated seats too. Never felt the need to use them.
 
Insects only seem to want to enter my open windows when the car is locked. The little f***ers must know it will set off the internal motion sensor alarm. Even vehicle emissions can get into a car with the windows shut. More chance of them staying in there with you instead of passing through one window and out the other.
 
wuyanxu said:
If the car isn't moving, shut it off. If it's hot, get out of the car or wind down the window. If it's cold, put on another layer. If it were compulsory to breath a small portion of the exhaust gas while operating a car, I bet people would be more inclined to turn off their engine whenever possible! Simply because people are selfish!
Click to expand...

As usual, I failed get my point across.

I meant if the car is to be parked, not going to be moving for a while. I wasn't thinking to do this while you are sitting in traffic, stop-start is for that.


I do commute by car, via the motorway. My car's engine is only running when the car is moving, because why otherwise?
 
The bottom line is not about the engine kept running when stopped it's the place and the intent. Outside schools etc pollution hot spots form. Take in to consideration all those developing kids lungs and it is not a good recipe. If folk can't take that on board then the point is lost really
 
neil_g said:
because your car has that feature?

the rest of us mere mortals with older cars do not.

preaching an opinion based on what you own isn't really useful.
Click to expand...

I'm not preaching the opinion to use stop/start feature whenever possible.

I'm preaching that one should not idle their engine when parked (not at traffic light or in congestion. At school gates or residential area), this rule should fit all. Nothing to do with whether a car has a feature or not, because it is matter of simple decency.
 
Last edited:
wuyanxu said:
I'm not preaching the opinion to use stop/start feature whenever possible.

I'm preaching that one should not idle their engine when parked (not at traffic light or in congestion. At school gates or residential area), this rule should fit all. Nothing to do with whether a car has a feature or not, because it is matter of simple decency.
Click to expand...

People are not generally decent to other people though.
 
neil_g said:
I can arrange to pick my missus up at a certain time. Will she be on time, will she be 10 mins late. Who knows.
Click to expand...

neil_g said:
As I said earlier, fine if you know exactly when that person is walking though the gate.
Click to expand...

You are justifying having the engine possibly idle for 10min just because you don't know when that person is walking through the gate?

Shut it off. Start again only after the everyone is ready to go. Why even need to think/guess when the person will be out? Simply pull up, P or neutral + handbrake and shut off the engine. The amount of time you wait is irrelevant.


Or was your car made in the 80's and might not start again? Even then, a warm engine should mean no problem when starting.
 
wuyanxu said:
You are justifying having the engine possibly idle for 10min just because you don't know when that person is walking through the gate?
Click to expand...

what i said was:

neil_g said:
I can arrange to pick my missus up at a certain time. Will she be on time, will she be 10 mins late. Who knows.
Click to expand...

seems counter productive to switch off for her to emerge 30s later.

Or was your car made in the 80's and might not start again? Even then, a warm engine should mean no problem when starting.
Click to expand...

2005. but it does actually have a warm start issue, its a feature of that era vw derv lumps. anyway it does 60-65mpg up and down the motorway each day so i'm sure it all balances itself out in the end.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top