Big Bang or Gradual Move to Fujifilm

What it boils down to is that one size doesn't fit all. I'm currently happy with Fuji and that's all that matters - to me!
 
Way too much time on his hands, photography to me is going out and enjoying it not sitting at home analyzing everything
(ok I do sometimes get a bit ranty on here in the evening, but mainly out and about)
 
HoppyUK said:
Good article on the pros and cons of Fuji X-Trans sensors:

https://petapixel.com/2017/01/27/x-trans-promise-problem/
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I tend to use raws any way......
But very many people choose Fuji, just because they love the look of Fuji Jpegs.
I must say I have never noticed chroma bleeding in any of my shots. It might be there, but if it is not noticeable, who cares?
It seems that if you look hard enough, and analyze deeply enough you can find faults with anything.

The real art is to find a successful and pleasing compromise that people want to use.
And Fuji have done that in spades.
 
Why does print always come into these debates? Photographers were absolutely fine doing very large print from 6mp dslr sensors years ago. I can't see any modern dslr/mirror-less camera struggle to give sufficient output quality. I also wonder how many here do extra large prints on a regular basis?

As for all the waffling about full frame preferences, OP is comparing APS-C bodies ... FF has nothing to do with it. When it comes to comparing modern APS-C bodies nowadays I believe ergonomics is one of the priorities and lens choice/options. Some may opt for one over another simply because they have access to some old compatible lenses.
 
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Cagey75 said:
Why does print always come into these debates? Photographers were absolutely fine doing very large print from 6mp dslr sensors years ago. I can't see any modern dslr/mirror-less camera struggle to give sufficient output quality. I also wonder how many here do extra large prints on a regular basis?

As for all the waffling about full frame preferences, OP is comparing APSC bodies ... FF has nothing to do with it
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I think the FF comparing came in when certain users experience problem with Fuji waxy oil effect, and they prefer their FF gear instead. I think is a fair statement that the Fuji didn't work for them, but everyone have their choice.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
I tend to use raws any way......
But very many people choose Fuji, just because they love the look of Fuji Jpegs.
I must say I have never noticed chroma bleeding in any of my shots. It might be there, but if it is not noticeable, who cares?
It seems that if you look hard enough, and analyze deeply enough you can find faults with anything.

The real art is to find a successful and pleasing compromise that people want to use.
And Fuji have done that in spades.
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It depends where you draw the bar really.

If the bar is "for personal use that I would never print" then I use my phone.

If the bar is "client is paying me for a job". Then I choose the best tool available and the bar is set much much higher. The client might not notice but that is not the point, that is a low bar and my bar is higher than that. My bar is exceed client's expectations, not only to keep them happy but also to give me some leeway should my standard somehow drop, then it will hopefully drop to a place still above their expectation.
 
badboy1984 said:
I think the FF comparing came in when certain users experience problem with Fuji waxy oil effect, and they prefer their FF gear instead. I think is a fair statement that the Fuji didn't work for them, but everyone have their choice.
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It's not a fair statement if they're comparing to full frame. Though, I have done this myself, as I was a D800E user up until this year, and I only got an XT-1. Not missing anything ...
 
Cagey75 said:
Why does print always come into these debates? Photographers were absolutely fine doing very large print from 6mp dslr sensors years ago. I can't see any modern dslr/mirror-less camera struggle to give sufficient output quality. I also wonder how many here do extra large prints on a regular basis?

As for all the waffling about full frame preferences, OP is comparing APS-C bodies ... FF has nothing to do with it. When it comes to comparing modern APS-C bodies nowadays I believe ergonomics is one of the priorities and lens choice/options. Some may opt for one over another simply because they have access to some old compatible lenses.
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Print comes into it because for some of us, a decent sized print is the required end product rather than it being viewed on assorted, often uncalibrated screens. My old D70's files could just about go to A3+ as long as there was minimal cropping. Much more than a minor horizon levelling and you could see the flaws. Few of mine from that camera made it up to full A3+ print but a lot of shots from later cameras with higher pixel counts have made it up to A3+ and assorted walls. With some of them getting significant crops.
 
Nod said:
Print comes into it because for some of us, a decent sized print is the required end product rather than it being viewed on assorted, often uncalibrated screens. My old D70's files could just about go to A3+ as long as there was minimal cropping. Much more than a minor horizon levelling and you could see the flaws. Few of mine from that camera made it up to full A3+ print but a lot of shots from later cameras with higher pixel counts have made it up to A3+ and assorted walls. With some of them getting significant crops.
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I think just about any modern dslr or mirrorless camera can easily do A3+ though, that was as much my point.
 
Cagey75 said:
It's not a fair statement if they're comparing to full frame. Though, I have done this myself, as I was a D800E user up until this year, and I only got an XT-1. Not missing anything ...
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I had D3 and D700 and now XT1 and XE2s. I'm not missing anything apart from the weight and size lol.
 
badboy1984 said:
I had D3 and D700 and now XT1 and XE2s. I'm not missing anything apart from the weight and size lol.
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I have the xpro1 also, I do find that a little slow for my liking, it's a lot less responsive than the XT-1 even. It's a nice camera and I like having a back up, but after using the T1 before I got it the pro1 just seems laggy in comparison. I prefer the layout, style and ergonomics of the XT bodies, especially with grip attached. End images will be much the same, this is what I mean on ergomonics, handling and comfort being more important factors [to me] than how large I can print. I know I personally will never need to print billboard size and if I ever do, I should imagine I'd be getting paid enough to warrant buying something beefier ;)
 
Raymond Lin said:
My bar is exceed client's expectations, not only to keep them happy but also to give me some leeway should my standard somehow drop, then it will hopefully drop to a place still above their expectation.
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Your standards drop? I'm amazed you even considered that a possibility......
 
Jelster said:
Your standards drop? I'm amazed you even considered that a possibility......
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I still give my best no matter what camera I pick, but if the camera doesn't translate the same, and one gives better images, I would always go for the camera that I know have a bigger latitude, for it being bokeh, DR etc.

So if the bokeh from the Fuji is not as good, then yes, the standard has dropped.

Is that clear?
 
Raymond Lin said:
I still give my best no matter what camera I pick, but if the camera doesn't translate the same, and one gives better images, I would always go for the camera that I know have a bigger latitude, for it being bokeh, DR etc.

So if the bokeh from the Fuji is not as good, then yes, the standard has dropped.

Is that clear?
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Perfectly Raymond. You're too good for Fuji, understood...
 
Raymond Lin said:
I still give my best no matter what camera I pick, but if the camera doesn't translate the same, and one gives better images, I would always go for the camera that I know have a bigger latitude, for it being bokeh, DR etc.

So if the bokeh from the Fuji is not as good, then yes, the standard has dropped.

Is that clear?
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The bokeh from most Fuji lenses is superb.
However the depth of field is greater as it is a crop frame camera, as against the shallower depth of field of equivalent full frame lenses.
Some expensive Full Frame lenses have very poor Bokeh despite having very shallow depth of field.

Or perhaps it is the shallow depth of field that you like, rather than Good Bokeh.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
The bokeh from most Fuji lenses is superb.
However the depth of field is greater as it is a crop frame camera, as against the shallower depth of field of equivalent full frame lenses.
Some expensive Full Frame lenses have very poor Bokeh despite having very shallow depth of field.

Or perhaps it is the shallow depth of field that you like, rather than Good Bokeh.
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Exactly, I already admitted that i am a bokeh whore.

Cropped sensor, not just Fuji gets less DoF (or more so to speak), it's not a criticism of Fuji, it is just a fact of science but since this is a thread about Fuji and I do have a Fuji set up, that's what we are talking about. I might not always shoot at 1.2 but I can when i want to and the Canon system allows me to achieve that look. The Fuji system don't. There is no way I could make that look, in the same space. There is just more breathing room with the Canon. It really is that simple.

I don't know why people are offended about it, it's not like i am insulting their children. Fuji system can't get the same DoF that i am used to. Period. Fuji system don't have the same flash system available, period. I shoot lots of off camera flash. If that's not your thing, why are you offended that I find the system being more limited for my use.
 
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Raymond Lin said:
Exactly, I already admitted that i am a bokeh whore.

Cropped sensor, not just Fuji gets less DoF (or more so to speak), it's not a criticism of Fuji, it is just a fact of science but since this is a thread about Fuji and I do have a Fuji set up, that's what we are talking about.

I don't know why people are offended about it, it's not like i am insulting their children. Fuji system can't get the same DoF that i am used to. Period. Fuji system don't have the same flash system available, period. I shoot lots of off camera flash. If that's not your thing, why are you offended that I find the system being more limited for my use.
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Nobody is offended, you're just waffling now tbh. Your posts are no help to the OP though, you seem to have forgotten what the thread is even about.
 
I don't think it was your comments about Fuji that upset people, but if you can't see that then there's no point explaining it....
 
Raymond Lin said:
Exactly, I already admitted that i am a bokeh whore.

Cropped sensor, not just Fuji gets less DoF (or more so to speak), it's not a criticism of Fuji, it is just a fact of science but since this is a thread about Fuji and I do have a Fuji set up, that's what we are talking about.

I don't know why people are offended about it, it's not like i am insulting their children. Fuji system can't get the same DoF that i am used to. Period. Fuji system don't have the same flash system available, period. I shoot lots of off camera flash. If that's not your thing, why are you offended that I find the system being more limited for my use.
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I Spent most of my life using Large and medium format. Lack of depth of field was often more of a problem than a Need.
It is not something that bothers me that much when using a crop sensor, nothing about it offends me. It is just a fact of life.
I am more concerned that it is smooth when I have it, rather than how much, and that the out of focus circular highlights don't look like hard edged disks. That can be a problem with lenses for either format, crop or FF.
 
Jelster said:
I don't think it was your comments about Fuji that upset people, but if you can't see that then there's no point explaining it....
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The thread is about moving from Canon to Fuji.

I happen to have a Canon system and have recently got a Fuji system so have 1st hand, recent experience of what I find between both systems. I am applying them with my criteria, work criteria which is the strictest sense. It would be pointless if I apply the to a lower shoot for insurance purpose level standard, take a snap shot where no critique of any technical level is required.

Then I move to explain what Fuji lacks and how I arrive at my conclusion since people question "they both can shoot great images" which I agree, they can, but of course, that is not what the question is, if you look at them independent of course that is true, the question is looking at them together.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
I Spent most of my life using Large and medium format. Lack of depth of field was often more of a problem than a Need.
It is not something that bothers me that much when using a crop sensor, nothing about it offends me. It is just a fact of life.
I am more concerned that it is smooth when I have it, rather than how much, and that the out of focus circular highlights don't look like hard edged disks. That can be a problem with lenses for either format, crop or FF.
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It's also that there can be MORE (or less DoF) when I want it, it is there.

I sometimes even shoot 2.8, but I know I can shoot 1.2, I can when I want to. I can't take that step with the Fuji set up. There is more breathing space in both (amount of light I have to play with), the artistic side, the separation side of subject to play with.

This is just 1 aspect between both systems, just the bokeh. There is more room to breath.

Then of course there are other elements like performance in high ISO, sure the Fuji does an admirable job, excellent job, but the 5D4 does a better job, even if its just 1 stop better, it is better. I like to have that extra stop, it is there when i need it.

And there is the batteries life, I can probably get 1500 shots out of 1 Canon battery. Each on its own, it's not much but when you add them together, it adds up together, the lists gets quite long and then I am looking at....so I can save some weight, but there is all these other things that I will lose out on, is it worth it?

For me, the answer is no.
 
Jelster said:
I don't think it was your comments about Fuji that upset people, but if you can't see that then there's no point explaining it....
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I know why, you think I am saying it with some sort of superiority...I don't mean it that way, I merely means I often push the system to its limits, to its ISO limits, to the DR limits, even battery life etc. I want a photo that pushes these limits, and I think the Canon can get me these images with better results. Of course the other side is....you are thinking "is he saying I don't push my camera enough or I don't have the vision to push my camera or is he saying i don't have the photographic vision?" I am not saying that, if you read it that way and offended, i apologise. I don't know what you shoot, but like i said, there are certain photography that do not push the limits of cameras, like if I shoot product photography at home, its on a tripod, it is ISO 100, it is well lit with flash, nothing moves, you have all day to do it in. One could shoot that with an 10 year old 5D and it would be fine, it would be almost impossible to tell the difference. What is important is when the situation becomes more extreme, and in Wedding Photography you have to prepare for the extreme and you need to know your gear can get you through it.

Shoot in a room with no natural light, so dark that you need F/1.4 at 3200 ISO can only get you 1/30 shutter speed with no flash??? That happened to me once.

Take 1 photo and then 1 second later you notice something happening behind you and you HAVE to capture it, except this photo there is a strong back light and now you need to adjust the exposure compensation quickly, The X-T2, with the thumb Grip on it becomes a 2 finger process, if I take the thumb grip off it is more awkward to hold.

Little things like that.
 
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At the end of the day is up to the OP to decide what he want to do with his current gear. I think we all share our experience and pros/cons on both full frame DSLR, M43 and APSC Fuji.

They all good at the end of the day and depend on your situation or the type of work you want to do, their is a tool out their to choose.
 
Raymond Lin said:
The thread is about moving from Canon to Fuji.
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It's about moving from Canon crop sensor to Fuji crop sensor, nothing to do with full frame, which is mostly what you are on about. I'm doubting you could show any images you've shot on your Canon gear that couldn't be shot using Fuji gear tbh .... but that would again be going off topic and making it about you ...
 
Raymond, I'm going to back out of this thread, but I to have a both Canon & Fuji. I've had a Canon SLR of some description for 30 years, and still have my EOS 620 (The first of the EOS bodies, with the 650), so you are not the only one here with this experience. You come across as "Elitist", and you have given no real help to the OP as he was looking to move from crop DSLR to Fuji, it seems he had looked at the kit on offer and already selected the make he wanted to migrate to. Your incessant ramblings about DOF & Bokeh are just distorting the issue. The difference between DOF on the 2 formats at 50mm is miniscule, most people wouldn't notice the difference.
 
I think some of the perceived arrogance may be due to the tone of the "English" language used

Guessing it may be a second language and is used in a more literal sense than perhaps it would be by a native speaker

Apologies if i'm wrong, but it just doesn't seem to flow as it should
 
Cagey75 said:
It's about moving from Canon crop sensor to Fuji crop sensor, nothing to do with full frame, which is mostly what you are on about. I'm doubting you could show any images you've shot on your Canon gear that couldn't be shot using Fuji gear tbh .... but that would again be going off topic and making it about you ...
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I can show you all my images shot at F/1.2?

Jelster said:
Raymond, I'm going to back out of this thread, but I to have a both Canon & Fuji. I've had a Canon SLR of some description for 30 years, and still have my EOS 620 (The first of the EOS bodies, with the 650), so you are not the only one here with this experience. You come across as "Elitist", and you have given no real help to the OP as he was looking to move from crop DSLR to Fuji, it seems he had looked at the kit on offer and already selected the make he wanted to migrate to. Your incessant ramblings about DOF & Bokeh are just distorting the issue. The difference between DOF on the 2 formats at 50mm is miniscule, most people wouldn't notice the difference.
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That's what I am saying, I don't want "most people wouldn't know the difference", I know there is a difference and it upsets me that I am not doing my best to get more out of the situation.

Most people wouldn't know the difference between my 5D2 and 5D4 images but I do. I set the bar higher, why shouldn't we?

Isn't that how we make progress? Is this what we ask ourselves when we take an image?

Nah....they wound't notice, it's fine!!!
 
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tijuana taxi said:
I think some of the perceived arrogance may be due to the tone of the "English" language used

Guessing it may be a second language and is used in a more literal sense than perhaps it would be by a native speaker

Apologies if i'm wrong, but it just doesn't seem to flow as it should
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Actually, it's my 3rd language :)

(not trying to gloat I speak 3 languages, but that's also a fact, can I answer that without sounding big headed?)
 
Raymond Lin said:
I can show you all my images shot at F/1.2?


!
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Give us a link if you like. I'm telling you now, there will be nothing that cannot be done using fuji gear noticeable to anyone but yourself

It seems like you rely on gear a little too much, a really good photographer will make the absolute best with the tools they have and will never blame any lacking on the gear.
 
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Cagey75 said:
Give us a link if you like. I'm telling you now, there will be nothing that cannot be done using fuji gear not that anyone only you will notice.
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That is my point, I should not settle for "will anyone notice"???

A lot of people can't tell the difference between instant to real coffee, does that mean we all should settle for instant coffee?

Why are you settling for "no one will notice". That should never be the bar. If that is the bar then I would be lowering my standard. If you are happy with that, that's fine, but surely we stride to be better, we stride to be better than "nobody will notice". We all want our next photo to be better than the last don't we?

If I can notice, and I do, then I will do everything in my power to achieve that difference, even at 1%. I don't want to be "like everybody else", I don't want "no one will notice." be the standard. Eventually somebody does, and eventually everybody will notice and then at that point, you would be left behind.

uKV0Eu7.jpg


Ccxx40S.jpg


Here you go, 45mm TSE, do they make a 30mm TSE?

If I post a "normal" photo, at 1.4, it is meaningless because there was not a direct back to back comparison taken with the Fuji at the same aperture (which would have less DoF).

4rv3Eaj.jpg
 
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Raymond Lin said:
That is my point, I should not settle for "anyone won't notice"???

A lot of people can't tell the difference between instant to real coffee, does that mean we all should settle for instant coffee?

Why are you settling for "no one will notice". That should never be the bar. If that is the bar then I would be lowering my standard. If you are happy with that, that's fine, but surely we stride to be better, we stride to be better than "nobody will notice". We all want our next photo to be better than the last isn't it?

If I can notice, and I do, then at will do everything in my power to achieve that difference. I don't want to be "like everybody else", I don't want "no one will notice." Eventually somebody does, and eventually everybody does. Then at that point, you would be left behind.

uKV0Eu7.jpg


Ccxx40S.jpg


Here you go, 45mm TSE, do they make a 30mm TSE?

If I post a "normal" photo, at 1.4, it is meaningless because there was not a direct back to back comparison taken with the Fuji at the same aperture (which would have less DoF).

4rv3Eaj.jpg
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No offence, as they're nice enough images, but there's nothing about them an XT-1 and 35 1.4 or 56 1.2 can't achieve, especially with similar PP. I'm not seeing anything special that a tilt shift lens adds
 
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Cagey75 said:
No offence, as they're nice enough images, but there's nothing about them an XT-1 and 35 1.4 or 56 1.2 can't achieve, especially with similar PP. I'm not seeing anything special that a tilt shift lens adds
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Is there a 30mm TSE???

No.

And I do notice, like I said, if I notice, even at 1%. It's worth the pain for me. I will go the extra mile for that 1% of improvement.

Why do you think I bought the 35L mk2? Do you think my clients will notice between the 35L mk1 that I already had? I SERIOUSLY doubt it. But I do, I know what I am looking for, and I am willing to pay for that difference.

I am wiling to go that extra mile. That is my mentality.

4tPAH1J.jpg
 
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Raymond Lin said:
Is there a 30mm TSE???

No.
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And? I didn't say they need to have the equivalent gear, I said quite clearly there's nothing you can do with that gear that cannot be done with Fuji systems. TS is easily replicated in post, most people just don't bother. I mean, what has it done for the image with the little girl? only blurred half of her for no apparent reason. Posting images of your gear only confirms what I said earlier. you are too heavily reliant on gear. Or as some might call it 'gearhead' syndrome.

And again, we're not helping OP ....
 
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Raymond Lin said:
One could shoot that with an 10 year old 5D and it would be fine, it would be almost impossible to tell the difference.
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[QUOTE="Most people wouldn't know the difference between my 5D2 and 5D4 images but I do. ![/QUOTE]

In respect of the second quote would you apply this to the product photography you mention in the first quote? I am not disputing what you say, just interested as I struggle to see the difference between say 5D and a 5D iii images taken in good conditions.
 
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