Big Bang or Gradual Move to Fujifilm

Raymond, I admire your desire for perfection. But photography is an art as well as a science, and nothing is perfect to everyone. So please, do stop trying to ram down our throats that your way is perfect and no-one else can achieve this unless they follow your recipe exactly. No offence intended. :)
 
Well whether the OP want to change to fuji or other system or not, is his decision. Maybe all the concern we mention about fuji or mirrorless is not a problem for the OP and he doesn't care about any of the things, i.e battery life, tripod screw etc ......
 
Raymond Lin said:
I know you are being sarcastic but on a serious note, as a system, the DR is not there, medium format sensors tend to collapse at high ISO. The $ vs value is totally disproportional. We are talking about £30,000 for a body.

Then there is the focus speed, there is flashes.

And there is the weather sealing.

I could go on, the system as a whole, medium format is not designed for wedding photography. If you could be so kind to give me £100,000, I would be happy to give it a shot? :)
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exactly every tool is different and suit certain people. Medium format is not for you but is relevant to someone else.
 
Raymond Lin said:
You made a sweeping statement that he will missing nothing from the camera he has.

I made a post about things that is valid.

It is a FACT that the tripod screw is too close to the battery door, is yours different?

It is a FACT that there is no thumb stick on the X-T1, is yours different?

It is a FACT that the battery life is shorter, is yours different?

This isn't about me, it is about the difference between the cameras!

How are you so certain the Fuji ergonomics is going to fit the OP? Do you know him?



And I merely pointed them out as Cagey over there is 100% confident he will love it from day one.

I merely asking questions - How is the UI to the OP? Not suggesting "you are going to LOVE it, you won't miss the Canon at all apart from the hefty weight."

As for learning curve, I hear what you are saying but no markings on the diopter is no markings on the diopter, I can't learn to have x-ray visions. Like I can't learn to not having to take the tripod plate off between opening the battery door. It's going to take me time now to unscrew it first, it is going to take me time to unscrew it in the future.

Is it wrong to point these things out? Am I the only person in the world who's camera have the tripod screw where it is? Am I the only person who thinks Optical VF is nicer? Am I alone that to find the Fuji battery are on the small side?

Are these not legitimate questions?

People seems to so freely throw it out there that the grass is always greener on the other side, and they seem to throw it out there that because it worked for them, it must work for everyone else. God forbid when someone posts that the switch isn't for them and point out some elements that I find short in the system and when questioned why, i answered, they say it's about me. Of course it's about the user, you both answer how it is for you too, how you found it. I answered it about me. It is about the user's point of view. You put out your point of view, I put out mine. Somehow I get attacked personally for putting out my opinion and when I say good things about the system and gear that point gets TOTALLY ignored and uncredited. When I point out something that they don't agree with, they answers on those only.

Then there is always the answer of "Fuji are always expanding their lenses" there is always adaptors. He stated that Fuji's lenses matches, I pointed out that in terms of quality, in some lenses they do match, but as a lens line up they certainly do not. They might match 5 years from now but they certainly do not match today. The mere fact that adaptors are mentioned proves that the Fuji line up do not have all the lenses to match. and by definition, to match means equal.

One can easily say "anyone is always expanding their lenses", It is a 2 way street, Canon is always expanding their bodies and lenses too, so is Sony. Sony can take adaptors as well.

The grass is not always greener on the other side, if OP can, try it, borrow it for a day, before selling up. You might regret it.
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I am willing to give OP the benefit of doubt, that he has done his research into Fuji bodies, otherwise wouldn't be considering them to begin with. WHere's your TL;DR?... :p
 
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Stephen L said:
Raymond, I admire your desire for perfection. But photography is an art as well as a science, and nothing is perfect to everyone. So please, do stop trying to ram down our throats that your way is perfect and no-one else can achieve this unless they follow your recipe exactly. No offence intended. :)
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That's also what I am trying to get at, perhaps it came out wrong. The entire point is there is a lot of people pushing he should just jump in with both feet, my entire suggestion is to dip your toes in. I proceeded to explain why if I had jumped in both feet, if i had sold up all my Canon gear I would be very upset. Perhaps I went into too much detail but it was merely to show how I strive for my version of perfection that I find the Fuji come up short in some areas. Don't take that as gospel, it is just my opinion, people are free to have their own too.
 
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Raymond Lin said:
That's also what I am trying to get at, perhaps it came out wrong. The entire point is there is a lot of people pushing he should just jump in with both feet, my entire suggestion is to dip your toes in. I proceeded to explain why if I had jumped in both feet, if i had sold up all my Canon gear I would be very upset. Perhaps I went into too much detail but it was merely to show how I strive for my version of perfection that I find the Fuji come up short in some areas. Don't take that as gospel, it is just my opinion, people are free to have their own too.
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Now this I like, as today for a few hours I had a go with my mates X-T20 and I loved it. I have a 70D and nine lenses, I will get the X-T20 to dip my toes in like you say Raymond. Then after a few months of using it I will get another Fuji lens, but will still keep my Canon gear. So for this post Thank you (y)
 
Dave70D said:
Now this I like, as today for a few hours I had a go with my mates X-T20 and I loved it. I have a 70D and nine lenses, I will get the X-T20 to dip my toes in like you say Raymond. Then after a few months of using it I will get another Fuji lens, but will still keep my Canon gear. So for this post Thank you (y)
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Another thanks from me, as I have been considering the move from Canon and have learnt a lot more from this thread than from watching and reading endless reviews.
 
Dave70D said:
Now this I like, as today for a few hours I had a go with my mates X-T20 and I loved it. I have a 70D and nine lenses, I will get the X-T20 to dip my toes in like you say Raymond. Then after a few months of using it I will get another Fuji lens, but will still keep my Canon gear. So for this post Thank you (y)
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Perhaps someone needs to play the devil's advocate now and again, someone needs to point out some of the quirks, differences, annoyances and even shortfall, real life experiences and even opinions. If we all praise the camera without bringing up the faults, I would feel like we are not giving the whole picture.

That diopter lacking markings btw, i still think it is stupid...
 
Funny really as when my old Fuji XF1 broke I said NEVER again with Fuji, but before it did go Lens Error I had loved it from day one, so after today using my mates X-T20 I was like Wow the IQ in Fuji is still just as great. Like I said though I am going to take it easy first of all, but looking forward to getting the silver X-T20 :)
 
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Raymond Lin said:
Perhaps someone needs to play the devil's advocate now and again, someone needs to point out some of the quirks, differences, annoyances and even shortfall, real life experiences and even opinions. If we all praise the camera without bringing up the faults, I would feel like we are not giving the whole picture.

That diopter lacking markings btw, i still think it is stupid...
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I can see where your coming from, as I would not want to be told Oh yes go for it, then think crap I hate this new camera why did I get rid of all my other kit :)
 
Dave70D said:
I can see where your coming from, as I would not want to be told Oh yes go for it, then think crap I hate this new camera why did I get rid of all my other kit :)
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If you actually trail back the thread, no one had actually told him to sell everything and dive straight away. Most people said buy used and tried it first before you sell everything, dunno how it became heated.
 
badboy1984 said:
If you actually trail back the thread, no one had actually told him to sell everything and dive straight away. Most people said buy used and tried it first before you sell everything, dunno how it became heated.
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Yes I know the OP was not told to jump, I was saying if it had been ME to jump.
 
I am still here! Been reading the thread and thanks for all the input although a fait bit of drift:) I won't try and summarise the whole thread but I think dipping my toe in the water first is the way ahead and it might be a bit longer in getting this up and running as I do not want to sell my 70-200mm as its been so good to me, which obviously means hanging onto the body as well, to finance a half decent Fuji lens and second hand XT1. The input has helped shape my thinking so thanks for al the contribution.
 
Probably better to say what your budget might be after you sell some gear. I have no idea what those lenses are worth. Re-reading your OP seems the XT-1 and the 16-55 2.8 would be ideal for you, but that lens is pricey. The 18-55 2.8-4 "kit lens" is supposedly superb though, and a more realistic option for you.
 
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Cagey75 said:
Probably better to say what your budget might be after you sell some gear. I have no idea what those lenses are worth. Re-reading your OP seems the XT-1 and the 16-55 2.8 would be ideal for you, but that lens is pricey. The 18-55 2.8-4 "kit lens" is supposedly superb though, and a more realistic option for you.
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I have briefly owned the 16-55 and sent it back as, apart from the wider maximum aperture, I could see no real-world advantage over the 18-55. It would have redeemed itself if it had internal zooming, but it doesn't. Nor does it have IS.
 
Stephen L said:
I have briefly owned the 16-55 and sent it back as, apart from the wider maximum aperture, I could see no real-world advantage over the 18-55. It would have redeemed itself if it had internal zooming, but it doesn't. Nor does it have IS.
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Thats why I did not consider that lens. Optic is superb but if the the zoom is not internal and thats a massive let down. It convince me even more to stay with my primes :)
 
Stephen L said:
I have briefly owned the 16-55 and sent it back as, apart from the wider maximum aperture, I could see no real-world advantage over the 18-55. It would have redeemed itself if it had internal zooming, but it doesn't. Nor does it have IS.
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That's actually great, for the 18-55 :D I've heard people say this before, but then I've seen others including pros swear by the 2.8. Personally I prefer primes, but I can appreciate the ability to go wider if necessary. Otherwise I find zooms are more a distraction, fiddling about to and fro pondering on frame .... take the dang shot! :D
 
Cagey75 said:
That's actually great, for the 18-55 :D I've heard people say this before, but then I've seen others including pros swear by the 2.8. Personally I prefer primes, but I can appreciate the ability to go wider if necessary. Otherwise I find zooms are more a distraction, fiddling about to and fro pondering on frame .... take the dang shot! :D
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Every time I read this sort of view I want to say...

I've no doubt that the very best primes are better than the very best zooms but for me the advantage of primes isn't that extra bit of technical goodness it's that primes have a wider aperture and / or are normally quite compact relative to zooms. Zooms may well be larger and come with a smaller aperture but being able to select the focal length you want without changing lenses is an advantage and if you don't mind the additional bulk and are shooting at f2.8 or smaller a zoom is really just a long list of primes.

Yes, you can stand in one place and zoom in and out all day and get the same perspective every time but you can also position yourself as you would with (for example) a 35mm prime or any other prime within the zoom range available and shoot with your zoom as if it's a bag of primes, changing the focal length and your position and the perspective of the shot as you go without having to change lenses or crop the image post capture.

So... zooms can be use a number of ways, you can think about perspective and position yourself as if you're shooting with a 28mm f2.8 set at f4 (or whatever) for one shot and for the next you can position yourself as if you're shooting with a 50mm f2.8 set at f8 or you can stand where you have to because you have no choice and use the zoom to frame the shot as best suits you.

This is why compact zooms appeal to me, if you can find one that's good and no real hassle to carry about and if you are happy with the aperture range a zoom can be a very very useful thing and used with your brain in gear can be empowering rather than a fiddly distraction.
 
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woof woof said:
Every time I read this sort of view I want to say...

I've no doubt that the very best primes are better than the very best zooms but for me the advantage of primes isn't that extra bit of technical goodness it's that primes have a wider aperture and / or are normally quite compact relative to zooms. Zooms may well be larger and come with a smaller aperture but being able to select the focal length you want without changing lenses is an advantage and if you don't mind the additional bulk and are shooting at f2.8 or smaller a zoom is really just a long list of primes.

Yes, you can stand in one place and zoom in and out all day and get the same perspective every time but you can also position yourself as you would with (for example) a 35mm prime or any other prime within the zoom range available and shoot with your zoom as if it's a bag of primes, changing the focal length and your position and the perspective of the shot as you go without having to change lenses or crop the image post capture.

So... zooms can be use a number of ways, you can think about perspective and position yourself as if you're shooting with a 28mm f2.8 set at f4 (or whatever) for one shot and for the next you can position yourself as if you're shooting with a 50mm f2.8 set at f8 or you can stand where you have to because you have no choice and use the zoom to frame the shot as best suits you.

This is why compact zooms appeal to me, if you can find one that's good and no real hassle to carry about and if you are happy with the aperture range a zoom can be a very very useful thing and used with your brain in gear can be empowering rather than a fiddly distraction.
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I'm just talking about my personal style of shooting. I've owned dozens of zooms, in fact one of my favorite lenses ever was a humble little tamron 17-50 2.8 I got for about £170. The filter thread was a little loose on it and had to be continuosly re-screwed into place, but it was my first ever 2.8 zoom and it was fun to use. I'd not say no to the 18-55, I'm considering it for my xpro1 actually. BUT ... I will always still prefer primes. The non fuss, ease of use and little bit extra sharpness you (usually) get do it for me. They're also a lot lighter normally and neater in your kit bag. I'm no pro, so there is rarely a situation where I really 'need' wider or longer than a 35mm.
 
The extra bit of sharpness normally doesn't worry me and may not actually be in the primes favor as I have a couple of new zooms and some old primes :D

One lens that's impressed me is the Panasonic 14-42mm Mega OIS. It's the size of a prime lens and it's sharp from wide open and really it's a collection of primes from 28 to 85mm (in FF speak) and the only restriction is the aperture range. Another which has impressed me is the Panasonic 12-35mm f2.8 but that lens is on the large side but possibly preferable to a bag full of 4 to 6 primes as long as I don't want to shoot wider than f2.8. There's no fuss. If I want a 35mm lens I set the zoom to 35mm and for the next shot I may want a different perspective, I may shoot at a longer length.

Fast forward 10 or 20 years and if some new technology can give me a 12-200mm f1.4 that's the size of a 50mm f1.8 I'll jump at it :D
 
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woof woof said:
The extra bit of sharpness normally doesn't worry me and may not actually be in the primes favor as I have a couple of new zooms and some old primes :D

One lens that's impressed me is the Panasonic 14-42mm Mega OIS. It's the size of a prime lens and it's sharp from wide open and really it's a collection of primes from 28 to 85mm (in FF speak) and the only restriction is the aperture range. Another which has impressed me is the Panasonic 12-35mm f2.8 but that lens is on the large side but possibly preferable to a bag full of 4 to 6 primes as long as I don't want to shoot wider than f2.8. There's no fuss. If I want a 35mm lens I set the zoom to 35mm and for the next shot I may want a different perspective, I may shoot at a longer length.

Fast forward 10 or 20 years and if some new technology can give me a 12-200mm f1.4 that's the size of a 50mm f1.8 I'll jump at it :D
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That is a lens nobody would refuse I think :D

Are you using those lenses adapted to fuji? Just curious, looking for a nice wide angle, but hoping to find an old MF one, or I may go for the Samyang 12mm at some point
 
18-200 f1.4 would be nice if Fuji do actually can make one that keep the size and weight down :) lol
 
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