Can I legally do this?

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Pietrach

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Hi
I mostly do landscape photography, but always had a thing for sports photography. I managed to access few high level sport events in Glasgow (when we still could) as a freelance photographer, where I learned a lot and enjoyed it very much. I recently had a chat with my son's football coach (just regular kids footie classes) and he does not mind me running around the kids and taking some snaps for my portfolio and his use.
Now, can I legally do this? My biggest fear are the parents who do not want their kids photographed. I understand that, but how do I overcome this (their objections)? Also do I need some screenings for myself, permissions etc?
I do not intend to sell the images, just practice.

I would be grateful for any sources of information I could go through or just written advice here.

Thank you
 
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I shoot junior football all the time... As said.. legally you can do it.. however I have my own guidelines that if you follow you should be OK

Always make sure both managers know before you attend.. Both managers will be aware of anyone who cant be photogrpahed and its up to them to let you know.. This is usually done when players sign on (yes even tiny tots) at start of season ... So rule one.. never shoot a match without both managers knowing in advance

In fact take a look at my junior photo policy :)

www.kipax.com/policy
 
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AndrewFlannigan said:
This page has some advice on basic principles: Is It Illegal to Take a Picture of a Child or Young Person Under 18? - Digital Safeguarding - Ann Craft Trust
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Its a start but.. few things point to this being written by a paronid non parent haha

It’s a good idea to never share any images of your children online. The risks are too great, and it’s better to be safe than sorry.
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Someones never been on facebook haha


Children should always be consulted about the use of their image and give consent to it being used. They must be aware that a photo or video is being taken and understand what the image is going to be used for. You should ask them how they feel about the image being shared online.
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hahahahaha good luck with shooting an u7s match and going through that :)
 
KIPAX said:
Its a start but.. few things point to this being written by a paronid non parent haha
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They seem to have a handle on their subject. Hey! All knowledge is useful, or so I've been assured... :naughty:
 
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AndrewFlannigan said:
They seem to have a handle on their subject.
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Do they ? why do you think that? becuase it looks nice? Would you really ask a dozen 7 yr olds if its ok to photo them and explain to each one of them what your doing then wait for there permission?... As for danger.. what exactly is the danger of putting a childs pic online?
 
KIPAX said:
I shoot junior football all the time... As said.. legally you can do it.. however I have my own guidelines that if you follow you should be OK

Always make sure both managers know before you attend.. Both managers will be aware of anyone who cant be photogrpahed and its up to them to let you know.. This is usually done when players sign on (yes even tiny tots) at start of season ... So rule one.. never shoot a match with both managers knowing in advance

In fact take a look at my junior photo policy :)

www.kipax.com/policy
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Thank you so much, this is all very useful information.
 
KIPAX said:
Do they ? why do you think that? becuase it looks nice? Would you really ask a dozen 7 yr olds if its ok to photo them and explain to each one of them what your doing then wait for there permission?... As for danger.. what exactly is the danger of putting a childs pic online?
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If that's what the experts recommend, that would be my choice. Of course, there are always other experts to ask.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
If that's what the experts recommend, that would be my choice. Of course, there are always other experts to ask.
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Except generally publications like this are anything but expert.

They are political spin promoting the values of the charity in question.
As opposed to presenting the actual truth without bias.

The NSPCC guidelines are exactly the same. Look at the thread (that I think you were involved in) where someone was continually misquoting their advice to #prove' their point.



-------------

As for the original question, Tony has that covered.
 
KIPAX said:
As for danger.. what exactly is the danger of putting a childs pic online?
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A long time ago on a planet far away when I was young, there were frequently stories about ‘primitive’ people around the world who believed that taking their photograph was akin to capturing their soul* and being able to control them. It seems this has re-surfaced among the unsophisticated in our population.

It seems also to be held by some police officers. I remember someone who acted as an expert witness in child abuse cases complaining that some police officer would not release abuse pictures to home because it would mean the child being abused all over again. (Sorry, can’t remember who that was as it was some time ago.)

*It is a genuine belief by some that collecting hair or fingernail clippings enables others to practice witchcraft on the owner.
 
I often shoot children's football matches, but I always get permission from both team managers and referees beforehand. The team managers will know if there are any children who should not be photographed.

It can be a real pain trying to exclude individuals during a match, but that is what I do. During coaching would be much easier, but I wouldn't take photos without the guardians permission, personally. Some foster children may be escaping abusive parents.

When I share the photos they are always in password protected galleries or private groups, never shared publicly.
 
I've been shooting my own kids playing football for the last 10 or so years ,
week in week out........no one has ever bothered ,
the odd one has asked if/where they could see them later online .
you will be fine.
 
I’ve done this a few times, not on a pro level but for local teams, normally adult teams who had a junior side, I basically asked the club to inform all parents and check they had no issues.

prob paranoid but I’d rather be safe than sorry, had the club pop me a letter to confirm.

I also schedule the shoots, so any parents can remove kids if they wish.

as I’m a qualified football coach as well I also have the basic CRB/safe guarding Certs, so I’m legally fine to work with kids, no idea if this matters with photography but I believe having anything to do with kids or kids events requires it ??
 
Bebop said:
When I share the photos they are always in password protected galleries or private groups, never shared publicly.
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Why?
 
scott199 said:
I also have the basic CRB/safe guarding Certs, so I’m legally fine to work with kids, no idea if this matters with photography but I believe having anything to do with kids or kids events requires it ??
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Nope.. A CRB or DBS a it not needed for photographing children ... 100% not :) I ahve an enhanced DBS it juts keeps people who dont understand happy..
 
Bebop said:
Just playing safe really,
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Sorry but playing safe against what ?

if your selling the pics then the key is to make it easy.. password protected just put an obstacle in front of a customer ..
 
I've been asked for a number of years now to photograph grassroots football and junior rugby matches. As most have said, just ensure you have permission of both team managers prior to the game, if any child is under 'safeguarding' concerns, it is normal that the respective manager will inform you of this, and inform of the child concerned.

Most teams will have already undertaken photograph disclosure consent forms to sign when the kids sign up with the team, and most parents are welcoming to see someone taking pics. You will be surprised how many parents approach you asking for copies of photos you have taken, I can count on one hand how many parents have taken exception to me being there, but that's normally if the manager hasn't communicated it properly.

The FA published some useful guidance actively encouraging the taking of photos at youth sports, there is a downloadable pdf at the foot of the below page you can take a look at.

Best Practice for Running Websites and Social Media Channels - Lincolnshire FA
 
Thank you all for you advice and discussions.
I am reopening after a while with another question. If the aim is to sell the images to parents, how do you go about it.

1) If the coaches ask for the purpose do I simply say that it is to provide the images to parents at a fee?
2) What is your preferred way to market your services / images to parents?

My son does play for one of the teams, and I only photograph games of his team. However, many parents asked if they can see the images somewhere. And yes I can make them available online (so far I was taking them for the coach / academy of my sons team for free, and to learn myself) but if I wanted to start charging parents a small fee per digital image, what is the best way to advertise?
 
Pietrach said:
Thank you all for you advice and discussions.
I am reopening after a while with another question. If the aim is to sell the images to parents, how do you go about it.

1) If the coaches ask for the purpose do I simply say that it is to provide the images to parents at a fee?
2) What is your preferred way to market your services / images to parents?

My son does play for one of the teams, and I only photograph games of his team. However, many parents asked if they can see the images somewhere. And yes I can make them available online (so far I was taking them for the coach / academy of my sons team for free, and to learn myself) but if I wanted to start charging parents a small fee per digital image, what is the best way to advertise?
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Social media.. Mostly Twitter as the retweet system is perfect for this if you can get each club to retweet :) Also most teams/clubs have there own private "whatsapp" group.. get the manager to post the details in there... The only poeple you need to advertise to are poeple in the team.. both the above do exactlly that :)
 
Shot both my sons various teams over the last 10+ years to upload to the teams Facebook / Google+ pages and shared with opposing team always get the team manager / coach to ask permission before each game which is never usually an issue

Odd occasion you get the opposing team say yes but a certain player cant be shown online (hard when its the goalie but have managed to still take pics and conform with the wishes of the coaches / parents without a problem)

Anytime on the very odd occasion they opposing team say no then you get to watch the game with both eyes which is very odd :p

Always be upfront about taking pics and 9 times out 10 you will be fine and get the ok and the parents love having pics of the kids to look back on
 
I'd always ask for express permission from the kids' Parents before taking shots of them, then if they do spit their dummy out you're legally covered because you and they know you asked for permission beforehand.
 
MrRichAllen1976 said:
I'd always ask for express permission from the kids' Parents before taking shots of them, then if they do spit their dummy out you're legally covered because you and they know you asked for permission beforehand.
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thats 100% NOT how it works.. theres gonna be about 24 kids alltogether and all the parents wont be there... you ask the managers only and its ups to him to know who can or cant be photogrpahed.. :)
 
MrRichAllen1976 said:
I'd always ask for express permission from the kids' Parents before taking shots of them, then if they do spit their dummy out you're legally covered because you and they know you asked for permission beforehand.
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Legally covered from what exactly? How can you be 'legally covered' from a law that doesn't exist?

There is only one reason (apart from obscenity and if they are subject to legal proceedings) that someone under 18 can't be photographed
and that is that they are subject to a court order. Such a child wouldn't be appearing in public without massive safeguards in place - so it's never going to happen.
 
DemiLion said:
Legally covered from what exactly? How can you be 'legally covered' from a law that doesn't exist?

There is only one reason (apart from obscenity and if they are subject to legal proceedings) that someone under 18 can't be photographed
and that is that they are subject to a court order. Such a child wouldn't be appearing in public without massive safeguards in place - so it's never going to happen.
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Under online privacy laws for one.

I'll spare you my long rant about that subject as it's getting late and I need to hit the shower and then bed.
 
MrRichAllen1976 said:
Under online privacy laws for one.

I'll spare you my long rant about that subject as it's getting late and I need to hit the shower and then bed.
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What 'online privacy laws'?

GDPR is irrelevant and the latest Twitter announcement is not law, it's a corporate policy decision.

This is the UK, not France, Germany, Holland, Spain or Switzerland (to name but a few).
 
DemiLion said:
What 'online privacy laws'?........................

.....................This is the UK, not France, Germany, Holland, Spain or Switzerland (to name but a few).
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Yet!
 
THIRTYFIVEMILL said:
The child may be adopted. Birth parents trying to illegally track down children who've been adopted will search the social media site pics to that end.
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Out of interest, what is illegal about a birth parent tracking down their adopted child? Could you cite the legislation please?
 
DemiLion said:
Out of interest, what is illegal about a birth parent tracking down their adopted child? Could you cite the legislation please?
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I'm an adoptive Dad. At a court hearing before the child is placed for adoption a judge will set out the conditions regarding contact or no contact with birth parents. If the judge rules that no contact must be had with the birth parents it is then illegal for them to track that birth child down with the intention of trying to meet the child.
 
THIRTYFIVEMILL said:
I'm an adoptive Dad. At a court hearing before the child is placed for adoption a judge will set out the conditions regarding contact or no contact with birth parents. If the judge rules that no contact must be had with the birth parents it is then illegal for them to track that birth child down with the intention of trying to meet the child.
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So you are talking about adoptions that are enforced by Social Services via the Court of the Families Division?

You might have wanted to mention that because as regards to adoption, it is otherwise irrelevant.
 
DemiLion said:
So you are talking about adoptions that are enforced by Social Services via the Court of the Families Division?

You might have wanted to mention that because as regards to adoption, it is otherwise irrelevant.
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That would apply to the large majority of children adopted. Very few are voluntary adoptions where the parents ask for their children to be adopted.
 
THIRTYFIVEMILL said:
That would apply to the large majority of children adopted. Very few are voluntary adoptions where the parents ask for their children to be adopted.
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It's about 50%.

The legality is in the court order, not the adoption.
 
And I've watched enough legal dramas to know that in the majority of Mum versus Dad custody cases, they give the kids to the Mum.
 
THIRTYFIVEMILL said:
The child may be adopted. Birth parents trying to illegally track down children who've been adopted will search the social media site pics to that end.
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No because you already checked that before you photogrpahed... as described above in many posts... going round in circles now :(
 
MrRichAllen1976 said:
And I've watched enough legal dramas to know that in the majority of Mum versus Dad custody cases, they give the kids to the Mum.
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Are you referring to TV dramas or are you a court reporter (or similar official role) and have sat in court observing such events :thinking:
 
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