Does English cooking have a "Dumpling"? aka, anything that is pastry wrapped 360 with filling and bite size. Cornish pasty need not apply.

The only British dumplings I'm aware of are larger than one bite, are boiled in a pan and served with other things smothered with thick gravy. I'm not a fan but I do know someone who'd live off them if allowed.

Talking of boiled pastry things. In Kazakhstan I had some of a huge thing that could feed a dozen people. It was stuffed with all sorts and imo hardly done, just dough really, but the locals loved it.
 
Tigger.ufo said:
How is ravioli classified as a "dumpling" in your list as it is not pastry but pasta?

The answer to your question is no, there is no British equivalent of dim sum.
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Pastry, pasta, dough, made of flour, rolled out flat (small) then fillings added.

I thought I intentionally widen the criteria, not reducing it. If you want, I can reduce it to pasta/noodle kind of dough?
 
Tigger.ufo said:
How is ravioli classified as a "dumpling" in your list as it is not pastry but pasta?

The answer to your question is no, there is no British equivalent of dim sum.
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Dim Sum is not dumpling (umbrella term or not), dim sum includes steamed short ribs and chicken feet. Dim Sum is like a cuisine that has many many things. I’m specifically thinking about “dough” with filling, small.
 
Raymond Lin said:
Pastry, pasta, dough, made of flour, rolled out flat (small) then fillings added.

I thought I intentionally widen the criteria, not reducing it. If you want, I can reduce it to pasta/noodle kind of dough?
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No, there is no British version of whatever you want to call other countries versions.
 
I can't remember what program I was watching over the festive period, but I recall "mince" pies originally contained meat, and then changed to become the sweet festive pie we have now. Perhaps there is something along those lines?
 
From Great British Chefs

Dumplings might differ dramatically in appearance and flavour around the world, but their fundamental make up remains the same: dumplings are small pieces of dough, with additional ingredients (such as meat, fruit, herbs or spices) found either in the centre of the dumpling or incorporated into the dough itself.

@Raymond Lin no mention of "bite sized" or that they have to be filled.

So, yes we Brits do dumplings, just not to your very specific restrictions! :)
 
Tigger.ufo said:
So, yes we Brits do dumplings, just not to your very specific restrictions! :)
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Yes. We have done so for a very long time. References to "Norfolk dumplings" may go back to the early 1600s when it was described as
"pudding more or less globular generally enclosing fruit"
...Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology 1966
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Nod said:
So, when you say dumpling, you specifically don't mean dumpling.
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Dumpling is an umbrella term for “pastry wrapped filling that is bite sized”, I’m not sure how many times I’ve said that, it must be approaching 20+
 
Tigger.ufo said:
From Great British Chefs

Dumplings might differ dramatically in appearance and flavour around the world, but their fundamental make up remains the same: dumplings are small pieces of dough, with additional ingredients (such as meat, fruit, herbs or spices) found either in the centre of the dumpling or incorporated into the dough itself.

@Raymond Lin no mention of "bite sized" or that they have to be filled.

So, yes we Brits do dumplings, just not to your very specific restrictions! :)
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Are you reading the same thing i am?

Small pieces of dough? I am talking about Bite Sized, would you call something as large as a 12" pizza small pieces of dough?

It says in your definition that it can be incorporated into the dough, but I am asking does anyone know a dish that has it as a filling inside. That's all.
 
Tigger.ufo said:
Doesn't matter how many times you say it, that is not what dumplings are! :)
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You are being pedantic now, even your own quote states Small Pieces of dough with fillings?!

You are mistaken and confusing the word Dumpling as an umbrella term (for Gyozas and Mandu or Pot Stickers) and the English Dish call Dumpling which has no filling.

By your own definition, the English Dumpling don't even qualify as it has no meat filling or incorporated into the dough? it's just all dough isn't it?

Just to be clear, the English has a dish call Dumplings, but it is not the dumplings in your own definition that you stated yourself and not what I was looking for as I specifically asked for fillings. No fillings = not what i was talking about.
 
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Raymond Lin said:
You are being pedantic now, even your own quote states Small Pieces of dough with fillings?!

You are mistaken and confusing the word Dumpling as an umbrella term (for Gyozas and Mandu or Pot Stickers) and the English Dish call Dumpling which has no filling.

By your own definition, the English Dumpling don't even qualify as it has no meat filling or incorporated into the dough? it's just all dough isn't it?

Just to be clear, the English has a dish call Dumplings, but it is not the dumplings in your own definition that you stated yourself and not what I was looking for as I specifically asked for fillings. No fillings = not what i was talking about.
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Your ignoring anything that disagrees with you. I posted a link and have repeatedly told you about stuffed dumplings. How are they not dumplings that are stuffed!
 
Tigger.ufo said:
How is ravioli classified as a "dumpling" in your list as it is not pastry but pasta?

The answer to your question is no, there is no British equivalent of dim sum.
Click to expand...

I think that is the problem, we in the UK refer to it as pasta, not pastry

Would a steak and kidney pudding class as dumpling ?
 
Raymond Lin said:
Are you reading the same thing i am?

Small pieces of dough? I am talking about Bite Sized, would you call something as large as a 12" pizza small pieces of dough?

It says in your definition that it can be incorporated into the dough, but I am asking does anyone know a dish that has it as a filling inside. That's all.
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Where on earth are you getting a 12" pizza from? Not from anything I have quoted.

You are the one referring to "dumplings" but not actually meaning dumplings at all.
 
Gremlin said:
I think that is the problem, we in the UK refer to it as pasta, not pastry

Would a steak and kidney pudding class as dumpling ?
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Not according to Raymond ... too big (unless you have a massive gob! ...obviously not you personally!)
 
Raymond Lin said:
By your own definition, the English Dumpling don't even qualify as it has no meat filling or incorporated into the dough? it's just all dough isn't it?
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Doesn't have to have meat either filling it or incorporated into the dough, herbs are sufficient.
 
Tigger.ufo said:
Where on earth are you getting a 12" pizza from? Not from anything I have quoted.

You are the one referring to "dumplings" but not actually meaning dumplings at all.
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You said the definition does not state "Bite Size", I know, I did, but your definition states SMALL PIECES OF DOUGH, by anyone's metric, the amount of dough use for a 12" pizza is not small pieces of dough, AKA, I would not call a 12" pizza bite size.

What I am stating, is that what you quoted from British Chef's is exactly what I am talking about, small bite size pastry with fillings. Now, if you want to widen the understanding of what is pastry, pasta or just use the term dough, that's fine. However, the idea is that they are small, both from what i am looking for, and your definition, and that I am looking for something with filling.

Clear?

robj20 said:
Your ignoring anything that disagrees with you. I posted a link and have repeatedly told you about stuffed dumplings. How are they not dumplings that are stuffed!
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I am not, I agreed that Eccles Cakes is close, but still not found an English Dish that resembles what I was looking for at the start. Can you suggest a name of a dish that resembles what I am looking for?

Just a name, not a link.
 
Tigger.ufo said:
Doesn't have to have meat either filling it or incorporated into the dough, herbs are sufficient.
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Sure, but what I am looking for, from the start of this thread, is filling. I am not looking for an argument on the definition of the word dumpling, hence I repeatedly said. Pastry, bite size, with filling. As per the title.

I don't mean a few chopped pieces of parsley.

Again, I am NOT moving the goal post, the title clearly states, filling. When I gave other examples like Rivioli, Samosas, Gyozas etc, they have more than herbs inside them, they have more substance than herbs. I mean, are those examples not clear enough of the kind of "dumplings" I am talking about? Surely you can tell they are all pastry with fillings, not just herbs, but actual meats, veg, proper, fillings that make the center bulge.

That should give you an idea of what i am looking for from the start.

Again, i am not looking to debate the ENGLISH DISH OF DUMPLING. I am looking for a traditional English dish with Pastry (or dough), bite size, with filling.

Can we move on from the English Dumpling? We all know what they are, and they are not the same as a ravioli or gyoza or Momoas.
 
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I make Scottish Duplings.



:D
 
That's haggis in a dumpling, about bite size...
 
Raymond Lin said:
Sure, but what I am looking for, from the start of this thread, is filling. I am not looking for an argument on the definition of the word dumpling, hence I repeatedly said. Pastry, bite size, with filling. As per the title.

I don't mean a few chopped pieces of parsley.

Again, I am NOT moving the goal post, the title clearly states, filling. When I gave other examples like Rivioli, Samosas, Gyozas etc, they have more than herbs inside them, they have more substance than herbs. I mean, are those examples not clear enough of the kind of "dumplings" I am talking about? Surely you can tell they are all pastry with fillings, not just herbs, but actual meats, veg, proper, fillings that make the center bulge.

That should give you an idea of what i am looking for from the start.

Again, i am not looking to debate the ENGLISH DISH OF DUMPLING. I am looking for a traditional English dish with Pastry (or dough), bite size, with filling.

Can we move on from the English Dumpling? We all know what they are, and they are not the same as a ravioli or gyoza or Momoas.
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If you don't mean dumpling then why put it in the title? Just because you think that it is a generic word for bite sized filled pastry?

I have already said there is no British equivalent of the things you mention.

Clear?

Still have absolutely no idea where you got a 12" pizza from!
 
Tigger.ufo said:
If you don't mean dumpling then why put it in the title? Just because you think that it is a generic word for bite sized filled pastry?

I have already said there is no British equivalent of the things you mention.

Clear?

Still have absolutely no idea where you got a 12" pizza from!
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I do mean Dumpling, but you got confused with the English kind with just dough and no filling, hence I gave you various examples from around the world of what the rest of the world referred to as dumpling and why I said “umbrella”, I don’t mean a literal umbrella. Which is why I kept saying, even in the title, in quotes now and also “pastry with filling”. Unless you mistaken the word filling with herbs. I explained what I meant by dumpling pretty clearly. So I thought.

I mean was that unclear? Should I not gave examples and should I not stated the size? I thought the examples and size reference would have helped?

as for pizza, it’s a reference of you confused when I said bite size and when your own quote says small pieces, which by all intends and purposes the same thing and it does not apply to the dough needed to make a pizza, which I gave the size to..:in case someone mention a small tiny 1” pizza.
 
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The original question totally misses the point. A dumpling in the UK is a ball of suet or pastry cooked on the top of a stew/casserole or soup.

You can call anything else whatever you like, but ask most people in the UK what a dumpling is and you will get the answer above. Now there are many variations on that, some will be plain some have herbs, some will contain cheese etc.

Why try and create something that is already "defined" in UK cooking.
 
munch said:
The original question totally misses the point. A dumpling in the UK is a ball of suet or pastry cooked on the top of a stew/casserole or soup.

You can call anything else whatever you like, but ask most people in the UK what a dumpling is and you will get the answer above. Now there are many variations on that, some will be plain some have herbs, some will contain cheese etc.

Why try and create something that is already "defined" in UK cooking.
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I think you're missing the point.
There is no word for what Raymond is describing, he is just using the closest available word.
 
kendo1 said:
I think you're missing the point.
There is no word for what Raymond is describing, he is just using the closest available word.
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Bingo!

hence I gave several examples from around the world and hence I described how they are all constructed.
 
kendo1 said:
I think you're missing the point.
There is no word for what Raymond is describing, he is just using the closest available word.
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Just go to an English dictionary and see what they define what a dumpling is. (I am well aware that other countries have their own form of dumpling.)


dumpling
(dʌmplɪŋ )
Word forms: plural dumplings
VARIABLE NOUN
Dumplings are small lumps of dough that are cooked and eaten, either with meat and vegetables or as part of a sweet pudding.
COBUILD Advanced English Dictionary. Copyright © HarperCollins Publishers
 
munch said:
The original question totally misses the point. A dumpling in the UK is a ball of suet or pastry cooked on the top of a stew/casserole or soup.

You can call anything else whatever you like, but ask most people in the UK what a dumpling is and you will get the answer above. Now there are many variations on that, some will be plain some have herbs, some will contain cheese etc.

Why try and create something that is already "defined" in UK cooking.
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English Momas, English Gyoza, English Rivioli, take your pick.

Dumpling is term used in the English language to describe what is a Xiaolongbao. I didn’t make it up, it’s a term used everywhere.
 
munch said:
Just go to an English dictionary and see what they define what a dumpling is. (I am well aware that other countries have their own form of dumpling.)


dumpling
(dʌmplɪŋ )
Word forms: plural dumplings
VARIABLE NOUN
Dumplings are small lumps of dough that are cooked and eaten, either with meat and vegetables or as part of a sweet pudding.
COBUILD Advanced English Dictionary. Copyright © HarperCollins Publishers
Click to expand...

Hence I went into great lengths is giving examples and how it is constructed, I’m not talking about that particular dish in a stew.

Like for the 100th time.

When I gave those example you should realise I don’t mean the type in a stew, or unless you still didn’t realise, I stated later to confirm those are not the type I meant.

Now we are clear we don’t mean those in a stew, is there such a thing as a English Gyoza?
 
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munch said:
Just go to an English dictionary and see what they define what a dumpling is. (I am well aware that other countries have their own form of dumpling.)


dumpling
(dʌmplɪŋ )
Word forms: plural dumplings
VARIABLE NOUN
Dumplings are small lumps of dough that are cooked and eaten, either with meat and vegetables or as part of a sweet pudding.
COBUILD Advanced English Dictionary. Copyright © HarperCollins Publishers
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You still don't get it, do you?
This is NOT what Raymond is describing - he is using the word to help describe what he means.
 
kendo1 said:
You still don't get it, do you?
This is NOT what Raymond is describing - he is using the word to help describe what he means.
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Perhaps there isn’t THE word that exists is because this dish has never been invented, such simple concept but never widely embraced. I’m sure some people have made it at home but not like a recipe like a Toad in a hole or Shepard’s Pie that spread wide.

Which is amazing to me since the concept is so simple and clearly widely used around the world.
 
Who'd have thought that, on a site about photography, you'd get a heated argument about the meaning of "dumpling" :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
 
samosas are deep fried aren't they - would you call them pastry? Ravioli is pasta isn't it, not pastry?

I can see there are some heated arguments in here :oops: :$
 
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