Tutorial How to develop your first B&W film.

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RJ
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I keep meaning to get one of those hose things to wash the film properly but so far I've just been using a kebab skewer under the clip to hold the tube slightly out of the water so the tap water runs down the tube, up through the film and then over the edge of the tank. Works alright but it's not exactly a great solution lol

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That's an innovative method.

I just take off the round clip that ordinarily goes above the reel to prevent it sliding up, move the reel up so it sits higher in the tank, and then place the clip below the reel to keep it from sliding down.
 
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So, bit of a disaster, but nothing to do with washing (I used my standard method of 5 5-minute stands than a distilled water rinse). Something went wrong attaching the film to the clip in my Rondinax 35; I think I omitted to bend the corners down. I knew I was in trouble shortly after starting to wind the film into the tank, as it became stiffer and stiffer (oo-er). I decided that I should try and get it all into the tank (never again!), and basically forced it. When the fixing was finished and I took the lid off the tank, the film was all bent in the guides and the outer layers were a strange white colour. I don't think the developer had got access to the whole film. When washed, it turns out all except the last half dozen frames were OK. The next roll (Tmax 400) worked a treat with the corners bent down, although I was VERY surprised at how pink the first few washes were.

I've also resolved never to dev a film at my sister's farm again! The first few frames scanned have dust the size of boulders...
 

StephenM

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It's the dye in TMax - it's famous for it. Happily, I've never used it.
 
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OK, I know we've done to death the threads about the best approaches to doing the final rinse, and squeegee versus not etc.

I've devved and washed and rinsed (distilled water, no Fairy this time as my sister doesn't seem to have any), dried and cut and filed the negs. Now I'm on to scanning, and in this film I'm finding a number of water drying spots in places where they will be hard to remove in post. My question is: is there an appropriate way of re-washing these strips to try to get rid of these water drying spots?
 

StephenM

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If they aren't on the emulsion side of the film, try gently wiping with a soft cloth (one that won't leave fluff - "lint free" is the phrase that used to be used.
 
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Thanks @StephenM ... no-one recommends re-washing then?

I guess the best approach is to finish scanning the rest (in case I damage them in treatment, or it turns out for the remainder that the drying marks don't matter), and then experiment first with the method you suggest. I vaguely seem to remember noticing water drops on the shiny side rather than the dull side, so I'm hoping it will be OK.
 
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Wonder if anyone can offer any guidance here. I've developed my first roll of film, and a few others since. On every occasion i have sections of the film that don't seem to develop well. I seem to get a few frames well developed, and then a few just blank frames. I've tried developing using the inversion and roll technique and also using the twist stick on the Paterson Super Tank 4 system. Anyone got any ideas?
 

Andysnap

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Without seeing the negs. it appears to be a camera problem and not a developing problem
That would be my first thought as well. If there were some development on a few frames then it could be that side of things but if they are completely blank it would seem to be the camera which is at fault, maybe not winding on correctly?
 

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Particularly if the developed/blank transition is sharply at frame boundaries....
 
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Wonder if anyone can offer any guidance here. I've developed my first roll of film, and a few others since. On every occasion i have sections of the film that don't seem to develop well. I seem to get a few frames well developed, and then a few just blank frames. I've tried developing using the inversion and roll technique and also using the twist stick on the Paterson Super Tank 4 system. Anyone got any ideas?
Blank as in clear negs? Or blank as in black negs? And which camera?

When I got blank/clear frames on my SQ-A, it turned out to be a dodgy shutter on my 80mm lens. The mechanism released, but the shutter didn't actually open.
 
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i think if the film is touching other film during dev u can get a icky layer that comes off, well ive had that but luckily not on my actual pictures :)
 
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I've noticed when doing my devving recently, that there can be little black items in the stop and/or fixer. I read somewhere that these are "precipitates". So far I've dealt with them by carefully pouring the chems in leaving them in the bottom of the jar, but of course that's only the ones I can see. If there are too many I mix up a fresh lot (Ilfostop and Ilford Rapid Fixer; the Ilfosol 3 is one shot so not relevant here). Somewhere else I read that someone always filtered his chems though two coffee filters. If I tried that, would there be a problem? I thought these chems might be nasty enough to take some filter paper with them.

What's the best approach?
 
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I've noticed when doing my devving recently, that there can be little black items in the stop and/or fixer. I read somewhere that these are "precipitates". So far I've dealt with them by carefully pouring the chems in leaving them in the bottom of the jar, but of course that's only the ones I can see. If there are too many I mix up a fresh lot (Ilfostop and Ilford Rapid Fixer; the Ilfosol 3 is one shot so not relevant here). Somewhere else I read that someone always filtered his chems though two coffee filters. If I tried that, would there be a problem? I thought these chems might be nasty enough to take some filter paper with them.

What's the best approach?
Personally (IDIOT ADVICE WARNING attached), I use to get crud in the stop and fix. I now give a quick rinse between dev and stop, and again between stop and fix. I also seal my chems well. They keep lovely for ages. Someone that knows better will now advise against this.
 

StephenM

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I can't see any problem using coffee filter paper, as I suspect that they don't contain anything that will get carried through (if they did, they'd probably carry a health warning - or do they now? :(). There's nothing very noxious in black and white chemicals, and certainly some of the chemicals used in paper making are far worse. Probably the most harmful in purely chemical terms are the strong alkalis in those developers that use them (I have Rodinal in mind here); you can develop (pun semi intentional) an allergic reaction to metol (a developing agent) although some people stick their hands in it all their life without issue.

In my experience, the most likely source of particles comes from the rims/screw thread area of the containers; possibly a wipe round when the chemicals are in the tank would help?
 
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I can't see any problem using coffee filter paper, as I suspect that they don't contain anything that will get carried through (if they did, they'd probably carry a health warning - or do they now? :(). There's nothing very noxious in black and white chemicals, and certainly some of the chemicals used in paper making are far worse. Probably the most harmful in purely chemical terms are the strong alkalis in those developers that use them (I have Rodinal in mind here); you can develop (pun semi intentional) an allergic reaction to metol (a developing agent) although some people stick their hands in it all their life without issue.

In my experience, the most likely source of particles comes from the rims/screw thread area of the containers; possibly a wipe round when the chemicals are in the tank would help?
Thanks Stephen (and Paul). This is a Rondinax tank, so it doesn't have screw threads; the lid just fits snugly over the tank, with an inch or so extension down the sides. I was assuming the particles came from the development process, but if so there would be a bigger chorus of "yeah, me too" and "this is how I fix it"!
 

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Containers, not tank; the developing tank should be clean after use (if the washing has been effective etc.) but the containers for the chemicals tend to have them poured out, and back in again. Any spills or overruns around the top can lead to particles in the threads. Rodinal, as single use, shouldn't have particles (unless you made it up yourself from the formula) and if there were any, they should be easy to spot.

I always pour from the tank into a measuring cylinder (it's easy to pour back into the bottle from this) and as it's clear, I'd hope to spot any bits floating around. I can't say that I ever have, though. I have found solids left after evaporation at the tops of bottles, though.

I suppose that the "little black bits" aren't bits of shredded film? I don't know exactly how a Rondinax tank works (never used or seen one in the flesh, just 1 YouTube video) so I don't know if it's possible to tear bits off.
 
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But... it's Ilfosol 3, not Rodinal. And the made-up chems are in clip top plastic jars, nowhere for bits to come from that I can see. :thinking:

I'm hoping to dev a film tomorrow (if I can get some more de-ionised water in the morning), so I'll pay special attention to the developer solution once made up. And perhaps I'll try filtering through coffee filters, if I remember to buy some.
 
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I bought a leader retriever so I can cut the leader and thread the reel outside the changing bag. I have to say, it was worth every penny. So much less frustrating. Recommended.
 
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Not sure if this is the right thread... I think the question has been asked before, and the answer is "stand develop in Rodinal", but... the question is can I develop my Vista 200 films in black and white developer? The extra wrinkle is: using Ilfosol 3 and my Rondinax (ie continuous agitation)...

I suspect the answer this time is, give it a try. To which the subsidiary question is: how long in Ilfosol 3 1:9?
 
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Ok here's a question, I'm asking for, uh... a friend *cough cough*

Say my friend had a roll of Delta 400 which he decided to push to 800 as the light was a bit low. He metered and shot half a roll ok, but then for the second half of the roll he forgot and metered and shot it at 400... Because he's a total doofus.

Would you say I would be better off.. I mean *he* would be better off, pushing it one stop in dev and then having half a roll of images that are overexposed one stop, rather than leaving the dev at 400 and having half a roll underexposed by one stop?

Everything I know about film tells me that 1 stop overexposed is much better than 1 stop underexposed, for neg film at least, I just wanted to check beforehand :)
 

Andysnap

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That would seem to me to be the best option. I would tell your "friend" that he should really pay more attention when he is taking pictures... what a doofus!!!:D
 
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I thought I might have posted about this already, but can't find it. As you may know, I have an Agfa Rondinax daylight tank*. Last film I devved, a couple of weeks ago, a few frames were spoiled, coming out black.



As you may be able to see, there's a fairly steep change from normal to dark, and then an abrupt transition back to black again. The dark area extends beyond the normal frame to the edges of the film for at least part of it, so my assumption is part of the film came off the reel and stuck together. I think I did everything as normal: trimmed the corners, bent them down etc. I've got another roll to do this weekend, and obviously don't want a repeat, so if anyone has any suggestions on what I might have done wrong, I'd be grateful!

* film loaded still in the cassette with the leader out, clamped to a belt. Lid goes on, wind the film out with the external knob onto the reel. When it won't go any further, push up a guillotine that severs the film from the reel, complete the winding in, dev as normal but with half the usual quantity of chems and fairly continuous turning...
 

StephenM

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Surely as it's black it means it was exposed to light? Unprocessed film would either be greyish (like the leader) if no processing took place, or a normal negative with milky rather than clear parts if developed and unfixed, or completely clear if undeveloped and then fixed.
 
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Surely as it's black it means it was exposed to light? Unprocessed film would either be greyish (like the leader) if no processing took place, or a normal negative with milky rather than clear parts if developed and unfixed, or completely clear if undeveloped and then fixed.
Presumably if it was un-developed because of some problem in the tank, it would also be unfixed at the same frames?

The only way I can see it could get exposed in camera, is if the back came open? I have no memory of that, and it's not the sort of thing that could easily happen in a camera bag; you have to pull the rewind lever way out. Looking at the frames more closely, the dark areas extend beyond the normal frame, but the film is not completely dark right to the edges except for a very short section. I think if the back opened even briefly, the film would be exposed right to the edges. OTOH the relatively sharp area between dark and normal could be where the film is emerging from the cassette... and it's approximately the right distance from the exposed frame.

If it's the back opening, it's less of a worry than something happening in the tank, as the latter is out of my control. The former just requires me to (a) check the camera carefully (bother, just put a film in and exposed a few frames) and (b) be more careful myself.
 

StephenM

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If it's both undeveloped and unfixed, surely it would appear identically to the unprocessed film leader, which with all films I've seen is a sort of beige colour, whereas your film appears to be black?

I did note that the blackening didn't extend all the way to the edge of the film, but wasn't concerned with mechanisms for causation of fogging so much as establishing that the problem was film fogging.

Edit to add: if it is unprocessed, a dip in fixer will clear it completely. It clearly hasn't been completely fixed but undeveloped as it would then be clear. If developed completely due to fogging, the fixer will have no effect.
 
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I'll try the fixer tomorrow when I process the next film. It doesn't look at all like unprocessed, unfixed film, having just compared with a spare bit of leader lying around!
 
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I did a leader dip test in the fixer and also dropped the end of film in. Leader cleared nicely, the film stayed exactly as it was. Ergo, properly fixed. Beginning to look a bit more like a massive phantom light leak after all! In a way that's good news as it doesn't imply problems with the Rondinax. Today's film devved very nicely, AFAICS (not scanned yet... I leave films in sleeves under a large book over night to ensure they are flattened).

This film was FP4+, first time I've devved that film. The negatives look nice unscanned, no longitudinal curl, though the film base feels a little thin compared to TriX.
 
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Any idea what sort of development time I should use for FP4+ pushed to 400, developed in HC-110? I usually use 8 minutes at ISO 125, so I'm thinking 10:50 or so? My logic is that it's a 1 2/3 push and I *think* it's 20% per stop? 480 secs x 1.2 x 1.13 = 650 secs, or 10:50. (1.13 being 2/3 of 1.2 as it's 1 2/3 stop push). Not sure if I'm overthinking this or not though!
 

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According to the Massive Dev Chart

FP4+ rated at ISO 200 with HC-110 (B dilution) = 12 mins @ 20 degrees
FP4+ rated at ISO 800 with HC-110 (B dilution) = 24 mins @ 20 degrees

So somewhere between the two should be fine.
 
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Ok, I have a roll of Acros to process in Ilfosol 3. The Massive Dev Chart says:

Massive Dev Chart Search Results
Film Developer Dilution ASA/ISO 35mm 120 Sheet Temp Notes
Neopan 100 Acros Ilfosol 3 1+9 80 5 5 5 20C
Neopan 100 Acros Ilfosol 3 1+14 80 7 7 7 20C
Neopan 100 Acros Ilfosol 3 1+14 100 9.5 9.5 9.5 20C
Ie it gives times for the 1+9 dilution but when rated at 80, not at 100 (which I shot at). The 1+14 dilution times are given for both 80 and 100. If I apply the factor between the two to the 5 minute time for 1+9, I get 6.8 minutes. Is that reasonable?

I've also got to reduce the time by 15% to account for the continuous agitation with the Rondinax tank... ETA that would end up as 5:45...
 
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Ok, I have a roll of Acros to process in Ilfosol 3. The Massive Dev Chart says:

xxxxxxx

Ie it gives times for the 1+9 dilution but when rated at 80, not at 100 (which I shot at). The 1+14 dilution times are given for both 80 and 100. If I apply the factor between the two to the 5 minute time for 1+9, I get 6.8 minutes. Is that reasonable?

I've also got to reduce the time by 15% to account for the continuous agitation with the Rondinax tank... ETA that would end up as 5:45...
I used the 5:45 time (although I suppose I could have tried a 1+14 dilution... didn't largely because my measuring jug isn't well marked below 20ml...) and the negatives seem to have come out with decent contrast, and to have scanned fairly well. I was surprised how thin Acros is, and when I took the weights off after drying the bottom half (higher numbers, more tightly rolled in the can?) was quite curly.
 
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So today I got out my dev crate to dev the roll of probably expired TMax 100 I finished yesterday. For the last few months I've been thinking of getting some Photoflo to improve the last wash. There was a bottle in the crate that I remembered buying when I was in Jessops recently (or somewhere else, can't be sure). There was also a wrapped, padded package; not sure what that was, so I opened it. Lo, another bottle of Kodak Photoflo! The mysterious instructions on the bottle seemed to be saying use 20ml so I thought, that's ok, I'll soon use this up... but better check on t'internet... which reveals that it's 1 ml per 200. So I now have enough Photoflo for my next 500 rolls!!!!
 
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D76 powder - if it makes up a gallon, do you have to make up the gallon all in one go? Or can you just use some of the packet?
 
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