Kodak portra 400

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Nina L.A

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Nina
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Hello,

I wonder if anyone can help me as I am a beginner on film.

I am using a Canon A1 with a 35-70mm lens and have just bought some Kodak Portra 400.

I will be shooting indoors in a well lit room with neon lights. I have set my ISO to 400 to match the film but does anyone know what the best shutter speed I should be using?

Many thanks

Nina
 
Depends on what you are trying to achieve. Normal "rules" for minimum shutter speed are the inverse of the focal length of the lens, so if you're using a 50mm lens then 1/50, a 300mm lens = 1/300.
Alternatively you can use flash and if it's not too bright inside the flash duration will freeze all the action or camera shake, I think the shutter for flash photography with an A1 will be around 1/90 (may 1/125), just checked it is 1/60.
Or if on a tripod you can go a lot slower.
FD lenses dont have IS of course.
The film speed wont have a lot of bearing on the shutter speed you can use as you are trying to get a correctly exposed shot and it's the combination of shutter and aperture which govern this (for a given film speed).

Does that help?
Matt
 
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Hi Matt
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. I think I understand what you mean, apologies like I said I am pretty new to this.

The only options I have on my camera are 1000, 500, 250, 125, 60, 30, 15, 8, 4 etc. I was using Portra 160 film before with shutter speeds between 250 on a sunny day and 30 indoors. The ones at 250 in daylight looked really nice, however the indoor shots with shutter speed between 125 and 30 came out really dark and grainy, it was pretty disappointing.

I thought if I got a faster film it might help?

Best
Nina
 
By neon do you mean fluorescent strip lighting? You might find that colours come out a bit weird and un-natural on a daylight-balanced colour film - unless that's your intention.

Yes faster film will help, of course it will. But it might not be fast enough - see what your camera meter says. The maximum (widest-open) aperture of your lens (probably about f/3.5?) will be another constraint.
 
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Portra 400 is a film with great latitude and you could easily rate it at 800 iso and have it developed at box speed with little noticeable effect.
Do you have a lightmeter? Failing that you can download an app for your phone that does the job, the one i use is pretty accurate in most circumstances.
I've just used my app in similar conditions to those you describe and at 400 iso its giving me 1/15th at f4.
Andy
 
Hi Nina..you could set the A1 to "AV" then put the lens to "O" or "A" (Older lenses are "O") then select say F4 using the wheel and the camera would auto decide the shutter speed...mind you in low light you could get camera shake if shutter speed is too low so check the reading in the viewfinder before shooting.
 
I wouldn't worry about shutter speed too much unless you're trying to shoot something that's moving ?

Either set the camera on full auto (auto shutter speed and aperture) or aperture priority (auto shutter speed, manual aperture) and see what shutter speed the camera is selecting for you. You can probably get away with hand holding up to 1/40 sec, any slower that that you'll need a tripod.
Or, alternatively, use a flash.
 
First off, are you going to use a tripod when taking your indoor shots, and will there be any moving objects in your photos? A slow shutter speed can cause blur due to camera shake and faster moving objects can appear blurred too as they've moved while the shutter is still open.

Secondly, what do you mean by neon lights? True neon lights are those old fashioned, coloured thin tube type ones like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neon_lighting Once we know this it should be easier to help you (hopefully!).

I have a Canon A1 too, and it's got quite a reliable built-in light meter, with a numerical read-out display at the bottom of the viewfinder, which shows the shutter speed and aperture settings. The meter is fairly 'centre weighted', meaning that it tends to concentrate more on what is in the centre of the frame when you are aiming the camera at something. If the room is fairly evenly lit it should cope pretty well. However, if there are bright and dark areas you will probably struggle to get everything looking even and you may well have to decide if you want to expose for either the light or the dark areas, as you may not be able to get both 'right' in the same photo. If you understand the basics, you could try exposure bracketing in '1 stop' increments and see which photo you like best? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracketing

Anyway, putting things like that aside for a moment, the A1 came with quite a comprehensive instruction manual which covers how to use different exposure settings, and is available here if you haven't got a copy: http://www.cameramanuals.org/canon_pdf/canon_a1.pdf I re-read my copy every so often just to refresh my memory on which setting does what; it's a pretty advanced camera if you want it to be, or quite tame and easy to use if it's set to full auto, and I love it for that. :)

Perhaps the best thing to do would be to read the manual through thoroughly, try taking a test film, make some notes on what settings you've used when taking each photo and come back to us with the results if you feel you need any suggestions or help. There are plenty of experienced film photographers on here and I'm sure they'd be pleased to help you. Most of all, don't give up, it takes a few rolls of film and a few failures to get the hang of things... in fact I think a few of us are still trying get the hang of things 20 or 30 years on! :whistle: Hope this is useful, best of luck and have fun. (y)
 
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Mr Badger said:
First off, are you going to use a tripod when taking your indoor shots, and will there be any moving objects in your photos? A slow shutter speed can cause blur due to camera shake and faster moving objects can appear blurred too as they've moved while the shutter is still open.

Secondly, what do you mean by neon lights? True neon lights are those old fashioned, coloured thin tube type ones like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neon_lighting Once we know this it should be easier to help you (hopefully!).

I have a Canon A1 too, and it's got quite a reliable built-in light meter, with a numerical read-out display at the bottom of the viewfinder, which shows the shutter speed and aperture settings. The meter is fairly 'centre weighted', meaning that it tends to concentrate more on what is in the centre of the frame when you are aiming the camera at something. If the room is fairly evenly lit it should cope pretty well. However, if there are bright and dark areas you will probably struggle to get everything looking even and you may well have to decide if you want to expose for either the light or the dark areas, as you may not be able to get both 'right' in the same photo. If you understand the basics, you could try exposure bracketing in '1 stop' increments and see which photo you like best? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracketing

Anyway, putting things like that aside for a moment, the A1 came with quite a comprehensive instruction manual which covers how to use different exposure settings, and is available here if you haven't got a copy: http://www.cameramanuals.org/canon_pdf/canon_a1.pdf I re-read my copy every so often just to refresh my memory on which setting does what; it's a pretty advanced camera if you want it to be, or quite tame and easy to use if it's set to full auto, and I love it for that. :)

Perhaps the best thing to do would be to read the manual through thoroughly, try taking a test film, make some notes on what settings you've used when taking each photo and come back to us with the results if you feel you need any suggestions or help. There are plenty of experienced film photographers on here and I'm sure they'd be pleased to help you. Most of all, don't give up, it takes a few rolls of film and a few failures to get the hang of things... in fact I think a few of us are still trying get the hang of things 20 or 30 years on! :whistle: Hope this is useful, best of luck and have fun. (y)
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True dat! :D
 
MatBin said:
Depends on what you are trying to achieve. Normal "rules" are the inverse of the focal length of the lens, so if you're using a 50mm lens then 1/50, a 300mm lens = 1/300.
Alternatively you can use flash and if it's not too bright inside the flash duration will freeze all the action or camera shake, I think the shutter for flash photography with an A1 will be around 1/90 (may 1/125), just checked it is 1/60.
Or if on a tripod you can go a lot slower.
FD lenses dont have IS of course.
The film speed wont have a lot of bearing on the shutter speed you can use as you are trying to get a correctly exposed shot and it's the combination of shutter and aperture which govern this (for a given film speed).

Does that help?
Matt
Click to expand...

Matt, I think the phrase "minimum shutter speed" is missing from the second sentence. It rather reads as if 1/50 was the appropriate shutter speed for a 50mm lens, etc. I'm sure that's not what you meant... :)
 
Nina L.A said:
Hi Matt
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. I think I understand what you mean, apologies like I said I am pretty new to this.

The only options I have on my camera are 1000, 500, 250, 125, 60, 30, 15, 8, 4 etc. I was using Portra 160 film before with shutter speeds between 250 on a sunny day and 30 indoors. The ones at 250 in daylight looked really nice, however the indoor shots with shutter speed between 125 and 30 came out really dark and grainy, it was pretty disappointing.

I thought if I got a faster film it might help?

Best
Nina
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Hi Nina,
no problem, good advice above too.
If you were using Porta 160 and now have 400 you would be able to use at least double the speed you were using (as 160 to 400 is approx double film speed so double shutter speed, assuming same aperture)
as has been said though you could pretend its a bit "faster" and use it at 800 i.e. set the iso speed on the camera dial to 800, that would allow approxiamately a doubling again of shutter speed for the same aperture.
I had an AE-1 in 1980 and I'm still getting it wrong sometimes, so dont despair I'm sure you'll get there and loads of people on here are happy to help.
When you set the shutter speed to 250 outdoors I'm guessing the lens was set to A and the camera decide to set the appropriate aperture, as it probably did indoors too but it may not have been able to set a wide enough aperture on your lens, it would have been flashing numbers at you in the viewfinder, although they are easy to miss in the excitement :) which basically meant the camera under exposed, hence dark and dismal.
If you set 1/30 indoors depending on the light conditions and use Porta at 800 the camera will find it easier to set an appropriate aperture and get a decent shot, although you may get a bit of camera shake or subject movement, it's all a balancing game really (digital is no better other than being able to dial in much higher Iso of course as the rules/physics remain the same as far as light gathering is concerned.
You could also consider getting a "fast" lens, 50mm 1.8 for example as that collects far more light than your zoom lens, but that's another subject in it's own right.
It's not as daunting as it sounds, honest.
Matt
 
ChrisR said:
Matt, I think the phrase "minimum shutter speed" is missing from the second sentence. It rather reads as if 1/50 was the appropriate shutter speed for a 50mm lens, etc. I'm sure that's not what you meant... :)
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True. Thanks.
 
Hello everyone,

Thank you for your help, this has been so useful. I will definitely give the manual a read. I bought mine second hand and it didn't come with the manual.

I have attached an image of the room I will be shooting in you might be able to see on the ceiling the neon lights. I will be shooting my friend though she wont be moving much.
http://iamlazykat.tumblr.com/post/136815321081

So I am right to say ignore the shutter speed and focus on the aperture? This room is pretty well lit so would it be best to use a high or low aperture?

I really appreciate all your help!
 
I have set my camera to aperture priority Av and on my lens I have set it to automatic.

Thank you Matt for your second reply!

I do have a faster 50mm lens. Perhaps thats best to use : )
 
Nina L.A said:
I have set my camera to aperture priority Av and on my lens I have set it to automatic.

Thank you Matt for your second reply!

I do have a faster 50mm lens. Perhaps thats best to use : )
Click to expand...
From memory (which is a bit faded) I think if you set it to Av (Aperture priority) you need to set the aperture on the lens manually, not sure what the camera will do with the way you have set it, the manual should say.
yes I'd use the 50 (it's a better lens anyway), set the aperture to 2.8 or thereabouts and let the camera worry about shutter speed, I'm sure you'll get something.
Mr Badger will be much more expert than me as he has the same camera.
Lorretta's advise is good too, for a first effort with a new camera.
 
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This link should help explain shutter speed, ISO and the term 'stops' if that helps anyone: http://www.photographymad.com/pages/view/what-is-a-stop-of-exposure-in-photography.

Also, if you decide to shoot the 400 Portra at 800 ISO then don't forget to ask the film lab to push the film to 800 ISO, otherwise if they develop it for 400 ISO it will come out a 'stop' too dark!

A bit of techy trivia: Set to the auto shutter speed mode, the Canon A1 can select shutter speeds in between the manually available 1000, 500, 250, 125, etc. In its day it was one of the most advanced cameras available, and most modern DSLRs still feature the 5 exposure modes Canon first gave us on the A1.
 
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Nina L.A said:
Hello everyone,

Thank you for your help, this has been so useful. I will definitely give the manual a read. I bought mine second hand and it didn't come with the manual.

I have attached an image of the room I will be shooting in you might be able to see on the ceiling the neon lights. I will be shooting my friend though she wont be moving much.
http://iamlazykat.tumblr.com/post/136815321081

So I am right to say ignore the shutter speed and focus on the aperture? This room is pretty well lit so would it be best to use a high or low aperture?

I really appreciate all your help!
Click to expand...

You might want to stick a FL-day filter on to counteract the lights... but, what the heck, you might just want to embrace the colour shifts! The trouble is, you won't know until you get your films back whether the colours are magic or stunningly awful!
 
Thank you all : ) I do have a filter which I have been using. Like you said it trial and error at this point but yo have all been super helpful. I'm really grateful x
 
MatBin said:
From memory (which is a bit faded) I think if you set it to Av (Aperture priority) you need to set the aperture on the lens manually, not sure what the camera will do with the way you have set it, the manual should say.
Click to expand...

The way Nina has described her camera being set above in post #16, she will be in control of the aperture setting via the dial beneath the AV/TV switch on the camera body, but the camera will set its own shutter speed based on what the in-built meter is telling it.

I should have probably asked this first, but how well do you know the camera, Nina, are you familiar with the various 'exposure mode' settings and how to select them?
 
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Hi Mr Badger,

I am not too familiar with the exposure settings. I have just kept it on 1. I thought to leave this alone while I am still figuring out the camera but perhaps its useful to know about this too?
 
Nina L.A said:
Hi Mr Badger,

I am not too familiar with the exposure settings. I have just kept it on 1. I thought to leave this alone while I am still figuring out the camera but perhaps its useful to know about this too?
Click to expand...

Until you get used to the camera and as said:- Set the lens to "A" then on top the camera switch to AV (which is aperture control) select maximum aperture( by turning the knurled wheel) for low light and for sunny conditions use the wheel to set f5.6 or F8...one you get used to the camera you can use manual or select TV (shutter priority)..enjoy
 
Nina L.A said:
Hi Mr Badger,

I am not too familiar with the exposure settings. I have just kept it on 1. I thought to leave this alone while I am still figuring out the camera but perhaps its useful to know about this too?
Click to expand...

That sounds like the 'exposure compensation' dial that you're talking about. If so, you're probably right to leave that alone at this stage until you've got used to selecting and operating the exposure settings (shutter speed and aperture) and modes. (y)

As I said, have a good read through the instruction manual a section at a time, and if you're uncertain about something then just ask on here and I'm sure someone will be able to help. In fact I often wish this forum had been around when I first started film photography, it might have saved me a few quid and some disappointments... but then again, the internet hadn't even been invented in those days, let alone photography forums! :LOL:
 
Mr Badger said:
That sounds like the 'exposure compensation' dial that you're talking about. If so, you're probably right to leave that alone at this stage until you've got used to selecting and operating the exposure settings (shutter speed and aperture) and modes. (y)

As I said, have a good read through the instruction manual a section at a time, and if you're uncertain about something then just ask on here and I'm sure someone will be able to help. In fact I often wish this forum had been around when I first started film photography, it might have saved me a few quid and some disappointments... but then again, the internet hadn't even been invented in those days, let alone photography forums! :LOL:
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Daguerrotypes...
 
Removed as I was talking rubbish.
Matt
 
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MatBin said:
Removed as I was talking rubbish.
Matt
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No, I don't think you were; you said the A1 and the AE1 were different cameras, and that's all that needed to be said really. The AE1 was a capable and popular camera in its day, but the A1 was a much more advanced animal. Containing a microprocessor, it was the pioneer of the exposure mode settings that we've come to expect on today's digital SLR cameras (PASM or P,TV, AV & M). The A1 actually has five AE (automatic exposure) modes, plus full manual. Canon explains these AE modes (much better than I could) on pages 5 & 6 of the A1 instruction manual. http://www.cameramanuals.org/canon_pdf/canon_a1.pdf

The A1 really was a ground-breaking camera when it was introduced in 1978 and it soon became an excellent seller for Canon - perhaps becoming the first popular 'prosumer' grade 35mm SLR camera? Oh, and in addition to all that, with a motor drive unit fitted it could achieve 5 frames per second too!

These days I think the A1 tends to be somewhat under-rated and I think it deserves a lot more fans and respect than it currently seems to enjoy. Perhaps with the 40th anniversary of its launch occurring in April next year that might change?
 
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Mr Badger said:
No, I don't think you were; you said the A1 and the AE1 were different cameras, and that's all that needed to be said really. The AE1 was a capable and popular camera in its day, but the A1 was a much more advanced animal. Containing a microprocessor, it was the pioneer of the exposure mode settings that we've come to expect on today's digital SLR cameras (PASM or P,TV, AV & M). The A1 actually has five AE (automatic exposure) modes, plus full manual. Canon explains these AE modes (much better than I could) on pages 5 & 6 of the A1 instruction manual. http://www.cameramanuals.org/canon_pdf/canon_a1.pdf

The A1 really was a ground-breaking camera when it was introduced in 1978 and it soon became an excellent seller for Canon - perhaps becoming the first popular 'prosumer' grade 35mm SLR camera? Oh, and in addition to all that, with a motor drive unit fitted it could achieve 5 frames per second too!

These days I think the A1 tends to be somewhat under-rated and I think it deserves a lot more fans and respect than it currently seems to enjoy. Perhaps with the 40th anniversary of its launch occurring in April next year that might change?
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Be nice if they resurected a few for old time's sake eh? I wanted an A1 but couldnt afford it, it was as you say a great camera.
I realised of course that the AE1 always had its lens stuck on A unless shooting manual as it was shutter priority based (which was one of the reasons why I bought it). Bought an EOS (50e with kit lens after - which was awful, camera was ok lens was rubbish), lost all interest because of that lens.
 
You could probably pick up a T90 for a similar price (or not much more)...compared to the A1 it's a generation ahead, even the flashgun for the T90 is much superior to the A1 one. But then some people think, to use film you have to have an old looking camera. :rolleyes:
 
I had 2 T90s at one time, as well as my A1, but sold the T90s and most of my FD kit when I realised that camera manufacturers had got auto-focus right on 35mm SLRs, and digital was coming on in leaps and bounds. The T90 was another very advanced camera for its day, but it's a right old heffalump in respect of size and weight for a manual focus camera! :whistle: ;)
 
Mr Badger said:
I had 2 T90s at one time, as well as my A1, but sold the T90s and most of my FD kit when I realised that camera manufacturers had got auto-focus right on 35mm SLRs, and digital was coming on in leaps and bounds. The T90 was another very advanced camera for its day, but it's a right old heffalump in respect of size and weight for a manual focus camera! :whistle: ;)
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Well the T90 wasn't aimed at Joe Public snappers ;) and would think the people who bought it didn't mind (or would put up with) the size or weight because of what it can do. If you want to keep to Canon lenses and add a camera and go hiking there is always the T70/Ae1 etc for lighter gear.
 
Eos 5/30v in my stable, but it's a big old plastic lump ( the 5) compared to the A series, especially the lenses. Nice cameras none the less, just different.
 
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When you can pick up a EOS300v in a camera bag with four rolls of film and two AA chargeable batteries for a fiver...why pay out for a EOS 3 or 5 ;)

IMG_9737-600px.JPG
 
So, this thread answers the age-old question: how many posts does it take to get from the OP asking about appropriate shutter speeds for indoors shooting with Portra 400 in an A-1, to mentioning the T90 and T70 in the same post? The answer this time being: 32!

(It felt like much longer than that! :D:D:D)

Sorry Nina, the boys have gone a bit OT I think... ;)
 
If there's a choice between the straight route along the motorway or a rambling route along the country lanes we always go the long way round. :D
 
ChrisR said:
So, this thread answers the age-old question: how many posts does it take to get from the OP asking about appropriate shutter speeds for indoors shooting with Portra 400 in an A-1, to mentioning the T90 and T70 in the same post? The answer this time being: 32!

(It felt like much longer than that! :D:D:D)

Sorry Nina, the boys have gone a bit OT I think... ;)
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Well the way I look at it is:- Once a question has been answered it's "talk among yourselves time keeping roughly on topic"..it's all interesting knowledge for some. ;)
Someone mentioned a winder\motor 5fps for the A1 well that would increase the size nearer to a T90 which is all built in inc 5fps..
 
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Or you could go Ef-m, a real hybrid, EF lenses on a film camera that doesn't have AF capability, you manually focus them using split prism and Fresnel screen.
Or Eos 1n RS, not mirrorless but no flappy mirror in that it used a pellicle mirror instead and ran at a max of 10fps on film! New roll every 4 seconds.
 
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excalibur2 said:
Well the way I look at it is:- Once a question has been answered it's "talk among yourselves time keeping roughly on topic"..it's all interesting knowledge for some. ;)
Someone mentioned a winder\motor 5fps for the A1 well that would increase the size nearer to a T90 which is all built in inc 5fps..
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Generally speaking I agree Brian, however when it's a specific question from someone who hasn't used the forum before then I think it's possibly a bit daunting to get a thread that rambles off up a mountain path rather than sticking, at least a little bit, to the original question. :D
 
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