Large Format photography group - From "zero to hero!"

I’ve only ever had 6, so 12 frames, and there has only been a few occasions where I needed perhaps one more, very rarely two more. I’m quite restrained unless conditions are good enough to go a bit crazy :)
 
StephenM said:
How many double dark slides does the team think is a reasonable number? I'm wondering if I have enough - and I also think that possibly "enough" in this context is not the same as "enough" in the context of having enough cameras :D
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Enough is as many as you are willing to carry. Personally if I take 6 dds out with me that’s a lot of shots and almost reaching Woodsy’s machine gun approach to photography.
 
Thanks. My initial thought was 6 holders as well. What makes me think again about it is the effort of reloading holders when on holiday. At home I can just lay things out on the bench in my darkroom, turn out the light and get on with it. On holiday (and in a caravan) I need a clear surface large enough for my changing tent, and setting up/packing down takes more time. More holders means a greater proportion of the time goes in loading/unloading rather than setting up. My 5x4 Harrison Pup changing tent just fits on the table in our caravan, and I therefore suspect that the Jumbo version for 10x8 won't...

On the other hand, Nick's comment is apposite - how many am I prepared to carry, even if in this case carry means have in the luggage and find space to stow away.

On 5x4 holders, my Billingham waistcaot will happily hold 3 DDSs in each of the two large front pockets. 10x8 is a no-go with pockets.

I've just popped into my darkroom and had a count up. I hadn't realised DDSs bred in the dark - that's the only way I can account for 15 5x4 DDSs, the newly acquired Grafmatic and 6 10x8 DDSs.

Perhaps I don't need any more :)
 
I have 9. I generally load up all of them if I'm going away for more than a day, however I almost never take all of them out with me, 6 is the maximum as that is how many will fit in my daysack.
 
I think I've got about 12 5x4 in total, but I never take them all with me. I tend to use one set for b&w and another for colour, so I can easily tell what's loaded without having to think. On a day when I'm out shooting "a lot" I think 4 holders is normally sufficient, occasionally up to 6 if I've already worked out some images I want to take.

8x10 I only have 2 and so far it's been plenty. I'll probably pick up one more if I see one at a decent price and then call it a day
 
I have a little black book which I fill in when I've loaded the slides. Its always in the bag and fill in shutter speed, aperture and location/conditions so I always know what sort of sheet I'm using....in theory:D
 
Woodsy said:
As far as I know, the W series with the Seiko shutters means its almost certainly the first iteration of that lens, and will be a single coated lens. This in itself is not 'bad', it's just that certain aspects of the image (such as flair handling or colour contrast) may not be as good as the latest models.
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So, I'm currently looking at a 135mm W lens that I think is really a NW as the lettering is outside the lens barrell (see the listing that @C&C posted). The NW has a 52 mm thread which is a bit more useful to me than a 46mm thread. However, the image circle at f/22 is 206mm, a lot less than the original W series at 228mm (and a bit less than the CM-W series at 214mm). I have no idea how restrictive 206mm would be in terms of movements! Any comments?
 
If I've used the calculator correctly, the diagonal of 5x4 is 163mm approx, so 206mm would give you an inch and a bit of movement.
 
So it sounds like the 206mm would give sufficient for some reasonable experimentation and play (maybe not serious architectural stuff?). Thanks both...
 
Not sure quite how, but I found this Youtube video of an American talking about the iPhone apps he uses to support his large format photography. An interesting watch, see
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swxX_nn4VzU


The main apps he mentions are Fstop, Holders, TPE, Massive Dev Chart, and the Reciprocity Timer app (which seems to have lots of info about the effects of bellows extension, filters etc as well as reciprocity failure).
 
I need a favour :0).

I’m looking at the 4x5 base plate for my 6x12 back. It will be 5mm thick so that it fits under the standard Graflok brackets. On my Chroma, there is a 5mm frame around the bottom and each side of the back, where the ground glass and film holders drop in but I don’t know what other cameras have? If anyone can help, I’d really appreciate it if you could measure the depth of the bottom lip of the film back and let me know?

IMG_0653.JPG

IMG_0653.JPG

Cheers
 
ChrisR said:
So, I'm currently looking at a 135mm W lens that I think is really a NW as the lettering is outside the lens barrell (see the listing that @C&C posted). The NW has a 52 mm thread which is a bit more useful to me than a 46mm thread. However, the image circle at f/22 is 206mm, a lot less than the original W series at 228mm (and a bit less than the CM-W series at 214mm). I have no idea how restrictive 206mm would be in terms of movements! Any comments?
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I'm just catching up with this thread so sorry for the belated contribution. There is a list of lens specifications compiled by Michael K Davis at the Large Format forum here - http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/ - this list states the maximum amount of front tilt and front shift possible using each lens - there are seperate figures available for both landscape and portrait orientations. The list also gives a figure for % excess coverage (ie the size of the image circle, in excess of that required for 4*5, where 0% means that no movements are possible.
 
StephenM said:
How many double dark slides does the team think is a reasonable number? I'm wondering if I have enough - and I also think that possibly "enough" in this context is not the same as "enough" in the context of having enough cameras :D
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My experience with LF is limited but at the moment I have just seven DDS for 5*4. Doesn't sound much but I've found it more than enough for single day outings.

I reckon on taking up to four shots with B&W film in a day's shooting so that's 2 DDs. I've recently acquired some colour film - Portra 400 and Provia 100F but I'll probably only carry one DDS with one of those films at a time - except in Autumn when I might go wild taking colour images.

I have a 6*9 removable film holder which provides possibilities for carry more film, particularly colour in view of the per-sheet cost of colour 5*4. But, it is heavy and of course the negs are smaller.

I'm going to Glencoe for a week in Autumn so I'll have to rely on a changing bag to restock in the evenings. The changing tents I've seen cost more than my LF camera so I'm not about to leap into that purchase.
 
Kevin Allan said:
I'm just catching up with this thread so sorry for the belated contribution. There is a list of lens specifications compiled by Michael K Davis at the Large Format forum here - http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/ - this list states the maximum amount of front tilt and front shift possible using each lens - there are seperate figures available for both landscape and portrait orientations. The list also gives a figure for % excess coverage (ie the size of the image circle, in excess of that required for 4*5, where 0% means that no movements are possible.
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That's a very useful list, though for the Fujis there are many more lenses available than are shown (or perhaps I should have written, versions of lenses). Nevertheless, it makes it much easier to work out what the coverage is for the (unlisted) 135mm lens I'm interested in, in comparison to the CM-W lenses, so very helpful. Thanks,
 
Film Changing Bag/Tent - Slightly Alternative Option

I've previously posted a couple of times on here, as I've signed up for the Chroma, and as this will be my first foray into large format, I've been slowly putting together the bits of kit I'm going to need so I'm prepared when the Chroma eventually arrives sometime in November (or shortly thereafter hopefully Steve ;))

So far I've already got a tripod (from my DSLR kit), picked up a couple of lenses from eBay (Fujinon SWD 75mm, and CM-W 135mm, and 250mm), 6 x Fidelity film holders, and made a couple of DIY loupes etc..

The one thing that I hadn't yet sorted was a changing bag/tent solution.

It seems that an ideal solution would be a changing tent, but I couldn't help but be somewhat surprised at the cost of the purpose made Harrison changing tents - £260 + VAT??
I understand that even a changing bag has a certain cost to it, but I really only would want to use the tent for changing film, not to actually camp out in it!

I also have read that many people use a changing bag, and then fashion something out of cardboard to form a framework but I could see this potentially being a bit of a pain, so it got me thinking as to whether there could be a happy medium.

I know that this isn't a super economical solution, and I've obviously yet to try it out actually loading film, but having played with it a bit, it seems to work well, and I'm confident that it will be a reasonably convenient solution for me.

It's a combination of a changing bag and a small pop-up pet tent.

Very large changing bag (double bag with 2 zips etc) - cost = £42.50
Pop-up pet tent (pushes flat, closed size around 50cm x 50cm x 1cm) = £18

So for a total of just over £60, this gives something that's quick to set up, pretty spacious inside, and seems stable.

The only downside(s) i can see at the moment are that:
1. There's currently only the single front entrance to the tent (although it does seem wide enough to get both hands into and easily addressed by cutting an additional hole in the side if required).
2. The tent "poles" are single piece so it collapses flat into a bag which is around 50cm square and 1 cm thick. Alternatively if you pull the poles out, it is then very small, but is slightly more hassle to put up and the poles are around 1 metre long. So in terms of carrying it, either long and thin, or 50cm square and flat. I'd imagine this is no worse to carry than if using a cardboard framework, but is more robust and lighter.

As I said, it's not the cheapest solution, but might be of interest as a cheaper alternative to a proper changing tent.
 
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Peter B said:
Ag Photographic are trying to supply the pop-up film tent formerly sold by Calumet, but their website says they are out of stock and there are supply problems. https://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/pop-up-changing-tent-2575-p.asp

I've got a Calumet one and it is entirely usable up to 5x4, plus it folds flat for storage. Here's a digisnap of it in use.
View attachment 133208
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Hi Peter,

Yes, I'd seen those as well, and they would be the best price/performance solution, but unfortunately they haven't been available for the last 6 months (or certainly since I started looking for a solution). I've checked several times, and they are always out of stock. I've spent quite a lot of time on google etc. searching for purpose made solutions, and the only ones that seem to come up are the Calumet ones or the expensive Harrison ones, hence my looking for an alternative.

Obviously if anyone knows of a suitably priced option that is available, that would likely be the way to go.

Cheers,

Conrad.
 
I have a dark bag (thanks @steveo_mcg ) although I've not used it yet... but I think I'm going to start off loading dark slides in a dark room. Since the chances seem to be pretty good that there'll be no images on the first few images anyway, any possible loss of quality from stray light is less of an issue.

So, I think I complement Conrad's state of preparedness: he has everything except (*) the dark bag/tent (and perhaps film), I have a dark bag and nothing else yet!

* Obviously he has that now too... :)
 
ChrisR said:
I have a dark bag (thanks @steveo_mcg ) although I've not used it yet... but I think I'm going to start off loading dark slides in a dark room. Since the chances seem to be pretty good that there'll be no images on the first few images anyway, any possible loss of quality from stray light is less of an issue.

So, I think I complement Conrad's state of preparedness: he has everything except (*) the dark bag/tent (and perhaps film), I have a dark bag and nothing else yet!

* Obviously he has that now too... :)
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Lol - no film yet - I'll get that when the other important bit - the camera - is here/definitely on its way!!
I think when loading the film initially, I'll be using the bag whilst sitting in a dark room! :)

Oh, also missing a dark cloth and am looking at a low cost option for that. Current favourite is a couple of black polo shirts or similar, but still looking... in case anyone has any good ideas?
 
C&C said:
Lol - no film yet - I'll get that when the other important bit - the camera - is here/definitely on its way!!
I think when loading the film initially, I'll be using the bag whilst sitting in a dark room! :)

Oh, also missing a dark cloth and am looking at a low cost option for that. Current favourite is a couple of black polo shirts or similar, but still looking... in case anyone has any good ideas?
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I use a simple black t shirt. The slightly elasticated neck fits snugly around the back of my 5x4 camera :)
 
I need to look at a different dark cloth the one I have reaches my ankle and with my camping gear in a pack the other day decided it was a bit excessive.
 
Woodsy said:
I use a simple black t shirt. The slightly elasticated neck fits snugly around the back of my 5x4 camera :)
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I use this idea as well after seeing Woodsy using a t-shirt, I bought a heavy cotton XXXL black Fruit of the Loom t-shirt but rather than attach the tshirt to the camera I stick my head through the hole and drape the fabric over the camera, this makes it easier to slide in dark slides.
 
From my very limited experience: for film loading I just use a large nylon dark bag without any internal supports or anything. I shake/vacuum it out before use to get rid of dust and "puff" it up before putting my second arm in, seems to work fine. I think the trick is using consistent organistation when putting the bits in the bag.

I have been using a black fleece jacket as a dark cloth which has the option of being used zipped or unzipped and has a draw-string round the bottom. But I just got my daughter to make me a dark cloth with a draw-string in one end. I might add a couple of bits of velco to this so that it can be closed along the bottom edge if I want.
 
Not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but since I'm trying to buy a LF lens, it seems like a place to start! I've heard mention of a new EU trade deal with Japan. Does this mean zero duty on cameras and lenses, does anyone know? I tried reading the relevant HMRC websites and they're either broken or incomprehensible to me. :(

Oh BTW I have heard that when everyone's (non)favourite B-word happens (no flames, please), HMRC are dropping the £135 exemption on imports; everything will attract duty. :(:(
 
Not sure I'd wait for the latter for the promise of the former. Get what you can before we need wheelbarrows of cash to buy bread....
 
Think I'm going to give the T-shirt approach another go. Last time I tried it I got annoyed by the fabric blowing all over the place even in a light breeze but it might just have been too light a t-shirt.

Has anyone tried the (relatively) cheap dark cloths on ebay? They're black on one side and silver on the other (and quite light).

Either way I'm very likely to have my old one going spare.
 
ChrisR said:
Not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but since I'm trying to buy a LF lens, it seems like a place to start! I've heard mention of a new EU trade deal with Japan. Does this mean zero duty on cameras and lenses, does anyone know? I tried reading the relevant HMRC websites and they're either broken or incomprehensible to me. :(

Oh BTW I have heard that when everyone's (non)favourite B-word happens (no flames, please), HMRC are dropping the £135 exemption on imports; everything will attract duty. :(:(
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I've been looking for similar things, but from what I can gather everything will still attract VAT which is the vast majority of the additional cost anyway :(
 
raathistle said:
I've been looking for similar things, but from what I can gather everything will still attract VAT which is the vast majority of the additional cost anyway :(
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Yes I think so, though I have my eye on a lens that should come in under £135 even with postage... :)
 
So I'm assuming that most of my first attempts with LF will be rubbish, ergo I need cheap film to be rubbish with! I believe Fomapan is a good choice for cheap 4x5 black and white; what's a good choice for colour?
 
No reason why they should be; I had beginner's luck and my first few photos were all fine. Here's a basic scan of my first attempt.

Edit to add: FP4; I've never used LF colour.

File0005small.jpg
 
ChrisR said:
So I'm assuming that most of my first attempts with LF will be rubbish, ergo I need cheap film to be rubbish with! I believe Fomapan is a good choice for cheap 4x5 black and white; what's a good choice for colour?
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Fomapan isn't a bad film and unlike a lot of cheaper sheet film its on a proper weight base, some cheaper films are basically just the roll film base cut to 4x5 and are a bit of pain to work with. Worth bearing in mind that you'll run into Foma's comedy reciprocity almost immediately in LF.
 
My first and second photos on LF were these:

Large Format 101 by Jonathan Woods, on Flickr

and

Constantine Bay, Sunset by Jonathan Woods, on Flickr

I had no idea what I was doing either at the time, but if you just follow the basic rules of exposing a photograph, you'll do fine!

As for colour film recommendations, I personally have never really shot very much other than Fuji slide films and Portra 160. I fully appreciate slide is not the easiest, but @Andysnap (IIRC?) gave me some expired Velvia 50 a while back for free. I'd be more than happy to give you some of this on the Scotland trip if you like?
 
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Quick check on Macodirect (the most comprehensive site I know) suggests that the 3 Kodak emulsions are the only ones currently available; Fuji Pro 160 NS is sold out. And apparently Ektar 100 is the cheapest, only €56 for 10 sheets!!!!

@Woodsy that offer of a few sheets of expired Velvia is incredibly generous and most welcome. Thank you.
 
Anyone manage to get by with a ball head with their LF camera? Pricing up a lighter tripod and most seem to ball head. The three way on my Calumnet tripod is a bit done, the adjuster arms are all bent so its a pain to use at certain angles.
 
I've got a ball head on my big tripod at the moment for the 8x10 and I'm swapping it for a geared head, I just don't trust it with all that weight when I need to make an adjustment.

It holds the weight fine when it's locked down, but when I need to level it out or make a small adjustment I always feel like it's going to slip away from me.
 
raathistle said:
I've got a ball head on my big tripod at the moment for the 8x10 and I'm swapping it for a geared head, I just don't trust it with all that weight when I need to make an adjustment.

It holds the weight fine when it's locked down, but when I need to level it out or make a small adjustment I always feel like it's going to slip away from me.
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So is it fair to assume from this that you were reasonably happy with a ball head for 4x?
 
ChrisR said:
snip...@Woodsy that offer of a few sheets of expired Velvia is incredibly generous and most welcome. Thank you.
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You're most welcome chap :) I should qualify this with a statement that I have actually tried using it, and it develops fine :)

steveo_mcg said:
Anyone manage to get by with a ball head with their LF camera? Pricing up a lighter tripod and most seem to ball head. The three way on my Calumnet tripod is a bit done, the adjuster arms are all bent so its a pain to use at certain angles.
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ChrisR said:
So is it fair to assume from this that you were reasonably happy with a ball head for 4x?
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I've never used anything other than a ball head for 5x4, and personally it's always been fine. I've no doubt though that 10x8 is too heavy. Indeed, some manfrotto ball heads have the capability of applying variable damping/friction in a way that is separate to the main ball release. Perhaps this might help?
 
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