London tower block on fire

And get ready for it - any opportunity for some
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The full wording

Movement for Justice By Any Means Necessary said:
Grenfell Tower & a rotten coalition government… DAY OF RAGE
Queens Speech, Wed 21 June
Shut Down London - Bring Down the Government

Walk out of school, take the day off, call in sick, strike…
Meet Shepherds Bush 1pm to march on Parliament

  • Justice for Grenfell Tower residents. No Cover up – the full truth must be told NOW.
  • Stop the social & ethnic cleansing of London – reverse the cuts & sell offs of council housing, for a London wide programme of council homes building & rent controls. Quality, safe & affordable homes for ALL
  • Stop the scapegoating of immigrants - defend freedom of movement. No new immigration controls. End tuition fees & bring back EMA – free education is a right.
  • End Austerity; reverse the cuts and attacks on our public services.
Grenfell: tears and rage

On Wednesday morning, 14 June, we woke up to the devastating scenes of fire raging through Grenfell Tower. Words cannot do justice to the heartbreaking sadness, solidarity and absolute fury we are all feeling.

What will likely be over 100 working-class and poor people, of all races and faiths, immigrants and citizens, were murdered by this rotten capitalist system, which puts profit before people. In the faces of those who escaped, their friends, family and community we see ourselves. In the outpouring of practical solidarity and support we have felt the unity of our integrated, proud and defiant London family.

In one of the wealthiest boroughs in the country, the demands from poor and working class residents for the simple right to safety and security have been repeatedly and disdainfully ignored. Combustible cladding was put on Grenfell Tower to hide raw concrete from the delicate eyes of wealthy homeowners and millionaire investors with no concern for safety. Our lives are cheap to the billionaire property developers in their bloodthirsty quest for profit.

Comparisons have been made to Hurricane Katrina in the US; the criminal negligence and racism shown towards those overwhelmingly black, poor and working class communities. Though integrated, the majority of residents in Grenfill Tower were black, Arab, Asian and immigrant families; many homes will have included undocumented friends and family who may never be identified. Everyone knows they are drip-feeding us information, withholding numbers of those dead for fear of our rage. Families, friends and loved ones are left to search hospital to hospital, pleading to see if their loved one is there. The community and people from across London have been holding together the local relief effort with little support or back up – we do this because we feel deeply the pain and loss, while those in power prepare their excuses, diversions and cover-up. Across London and beyond, for everyone who has lived in council housing, social housing or asylum housing we know only too well the stink of ass covering and buck passing. The council blame the contractors, the contractors blame the fire regulations, the politicians blame each other and so it continues. The fact is we will have no truth or justice whilst Theresa Mays government with her cabinet of millionaires holds sway – they have got to go.

Class war – no justice, no peace; bring down the government

Theresa May presides over a government, which uses racism and anti immigrant bigotry to hold on to power. For seven years we have lived through brutal austerity, cuts & anti-immigrant attacks leading to countless deaths. The Tories and their buddies in UKIP raced each other for who could be the most racist in the run up to Brexit; a vile referendum built on the back of scapegoating immigrants. May and her rich, corrupt friends in government sow division in the working class; demonizing Muslim communities and scapegoating immigrants to divert from its war crimes. Because this IS war, a class war, and right now, though we are grieving we must also go on the offensive to ensure a tragedy like this does not happen again.

Politicians, and many community and religious leaders will be looking to divert our rage and fury into inquiries, investigations, reports, court hearings, and parliamentary processes. We all know how that turns out. From Bloody Sunday, to Hillsborough – unless we build our independent movement on the streets and in our communities and schools, those mechanisms for reaching truth and justice will be delayed, corrupted, minimized and rendered toothless; ‘justice’ will be delayed, which means justice will be denied. We will not accept those brush-offs and diversions, we will not settle for less than the destruction of Mays coalition of austerity & bigotry – we must bring down this government.

We are stronger than we know

Our generation, with black, Asian, Muslim and immigrant youth at the forefront, a generation that has fought hard on every front; from racist wars to police brutality, from education cuts to immigrant rights, have instigated a seismic shift to the left in the political landscape in the recent election. The ruling class and their politicians have been caught by surprise and flail in desperation to regain control. What has happened since last Friday’s election result both affirms the righteousness of the wave of anger and determination, which destroyed Theresa May’s authority at the ballot box, AND is a stark warning that we cannot wait or rely on electoral or judicial processes to win justice.

With last week’s election result we delivered a blow to the racist scapegoating of immigrants, which has been the fallback policy of politicians in all of the main parties for more than three decades. It’s led to the humiliation of Theresa May and a unstable government in coalition with the ultra right, unionist anti-Catholic, anti LGBT, anti women’s rights Democratic Unionist Party (DUP).........

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I wonder if Corbyn will be leading it, sounds like his real manifesto.
 

I wonder if Corbyn will be leading it, sounds like his real manifesto.

Momentum organised are the rumours

Apparently the web page saays: “We must escalate our actions to take down this rotten government, which has lost all authority to govern.”

Funny I thought they got more votes
 
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The left wing activists (Skwawkbox etc) have spent the last few days stiring trouble. I especially liked their claims that a d notice was put on the media banning them from from reporting the true death toll in the tragedy for reasons of “national security”.
Not true of course, but that's where we are in the modern world. Shout enough fake news are some will chose to believe it as it fits their beliefs. Sad that people will seek to make political capital out of this.
 
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One of the women shouting outside no 10 was one who also stormed the council offices.
 
Surely the main concern here must be how the central stairwell filled with smoke so quickly to render it difficult to get out. There's several blocks of similar construction around the UK, relying on a safe central stairwell as the exit route.
 
Surely the main concern here must be how the central stairwell filled with smoke so quickly to render it difficult to get out. There's several blocks of similar construction around the UK, relying on a safe central stairwell as the exit route.

Is the smoke extraction system not linked to the fire alarms? If they weren't working properly then the smoke extraction wouldn't work. I also assume it relies on people not leaving fire doors wide open.
 
Would a building that old even have a smoke extraction system? I read not but unsure of the accuracy.

It's common to refurb older buildings and add new safety features. Universities often have to do it or they end up demolishing student blocks by the shed load.
 
Some people just like to cause trouble. I'd wager most of the time they don't share the view of the protest, they just want to get lairy at something.
Its always been the same though hasn't it Neil?
I'm sure a lot of us are old enough to remember Flying pickets, bovver boys at football matches and more.
 
Its always been the same though hasn't it Neil?
I'm sure a lot of us are old enough to remember Flying pickets, bovver boys at football matches and more.
No. A lot of this is driven by social media which is having a big effect on issues. Can you imagin if social media had been available during the year long miners strike in 1984. Very possible that there would have been a different result.
 
if social media had been available during the year long miners strike in 1984. Very possible that there would have been a different result.
I'm not sure I follow you?

All I really know about the miners strike, living way down south is what the TV / newspapers reported and a friend of mine, a copper at the time ( since retired) told me.

And he delighted in informing me that all the overtime allowed him to put down a decent deposit on a "decent" house..
So I guess there was one winner.
 
Momentum organised are the rumours

Apparently the web page saays: “We must escalate our actions to take down this rotten government, which has lost all authority to govern.”

Funny I thought they got more votes
Funnily enough we don't have a acting government yet
 
Funny how those on here who are saying don't use it for political capital are doing just that.

This is political, pretend otherwise all you like. The way social housing is treated in this country is nothing but a disgrace, and its a direct result of that this has happened. Its not just the cladding ffs. Residents have been warning about the fire risks for a number of years, but they were ignored. This is a direct result of that intransigence.
 
Funny how those on here who are saying don't use it for political capital are doing just that.

This is political, pretend otherwise all you like. The way social housing is treated in this country is nothing but a disgrace, and its a direct result of that this has happened. Its not just the cladding ffs. Residents have been warning about the fire risks for a number of years, but they were ignored. This is a direct result of that intransigence.
I daresay some of this maybe false but here goes anyway.
1. The block of flats was run not by the Council but by KCTMO. ...This body is made up of 8 TENANTS, 4 councillors and 3 independent members.
2 Labour hold the seat that the block is situated in.
3 Labour run the London Council who manage the under funded London Fire Service
4 Emma Coad the sitting Labour MP for that ward also sat on the KCTMO.
5 The advice to stay put which Sadiq Khan has been so vocal about was given by the London Fire Service.
6 The decision to change contractors during the refurb was made by KCTMO.
7 The decision not to spend an additional £138k on fitting sprinklers was again KCTMO.
8 The decision to create ALMO organisation such as the KCTMO was made under the Right To Manage legislation passed in 2002
as part of the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act.
9 This was put in place to give leaseholders and tenants a greater say and the ability to self manage, which in some circumstances has clearly proven to be flawed.
10 Which Govt was in a charge when this law was passed? It was Labour.
11 Sadiq Khan as mayor of London Produced a report to say that the fire service did not need further funding.
12 Emma Coad elected Labour MP was on the board of the Tenant Management group who are being accused of not listening to tenants.
It's a modern lynch mob encouraged by bitter Labour MPs who having lost a close election want to destroy an elected government for a chance of a second election.
 
I daresay some of this maybe false but here goes anyway.
1. The block of flats was run not by the Council but by KCTMO. ...This body is made up of 8 TENANTS, 4 councillors and 3 independent members.
2 Labour hold the seat that the block is situated in.
3 Labour run the London Council who manage the under funded London Fire Service
4 Emma Coad the sitting Labour MP for that ward also sat on the KCTMO.
5 The advice to stay put which Sadiq Khan has been so vocal about was given by the London Fire Service.
6 The decision to change contractors during the refurb was made by KCTMO.
7 The decision not to spend an additional £138k on fitting sprinklers was again KCTMO.
8 The decision to create ALMO organisation such as the KCTMO was made under the Right To Manage legislation passed in 2002
as part of the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act.
9 This was put in place to give leaseholders and tenants a greater say and the ability to self manage, which in some circumstances has clearly proven to be flawed.
10 Which Govt was in a charge when this law was passed? It was Labour.
11 Sadiq Khan as mayor of London Produced a report to say that the fire service did not need further funding.
12 Emma Coad elected Labour MP was on the board of the Tenant Management group who are being accused of not listening to tenants.
It's a modern lynch mob encouraged by bitter Labour MPs who having lost a close election want to destroy an elected government for a chance of a second election.

Nice cut and paste job, from the express I see, why am I not surprised.
 
Nice cut and paste job, from the express I see, why am I not surprised.
The only thing you got right there, was that it was copied and pasted. So much easier than typing it all out. :p (y)

But is it true or false?
 
I daresay some of this maybe false but here goes anyway.
1. The block of flats was run not by the Council but by KCTMO. ...This body is made up of 8 TENANTS, 4 councillors and 3 independent members.
2 Labour hold the seat that the block is situated in.
3 Labour run the London Council who manage the under funded London Fire Service
4 Emma Coad the sitting Labour MP for that ward also sat on the KCTMO.
5 The advice to stay put which Sadiq Khan has been so vocal about was given by the London Fire Service.
6 The decision to change contractors during the refurb was made by KCTMO.
7 The decision not to spend an additional £138k on fitting sprinklers was again KCTMO.
8 The decision to create ALMO organisation such as the KCTMO was made under the Right To Manage legislation passed in 2002
as part of the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act.
9 This was put in place to give leaseholders and tenants a greater say and the ability to self manage, which in some circumstances has clearly proven to be flawed.
10 Which Govt was in a charge when this law was passed? It was Labour.
11 Sadiq Khan as mayor of London Produced a report to say that the fire service did not need further funding.
12 Emma Coad elected Labour MP was on the board of the Tenant Management group who are being accused of not listening to tenants.
It's a modern lynch mob encouraged by bitter Labour MPs who having lost a close election want to destroy an elected government for a chance of a second election.

http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/the-chief-editor-of-breitbart-london-is.html

Screen Shot 2017-06-18 at 21.18.58.png

http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/exposing-copy-n-paste-tory-lies-about.html?m=1

View attachment 104375
 
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I daresay some of this maybe false but here goes anyway.
1. The block of flats was run not by the Council but by KCTMO. ...This body is made up of 8 TENANTS, 4 councillors and 3 independent members.
2 Labour hold the seat that the block is situated in.
3 Labour run the London Council who manage the under funded London Fire Service
4 Emma Coad the sitting Labour MP for that ward also sat on the KCTMO.
5 The advice to stay put which Sadiq Khan has been so vocal about was given by the London Fire Service.
6 The decision to change contractors during the refurb was made by KCTMO.
7 The decision not to spend an additional £138k on fitting sprinklers was again KCTMO.
8 The decision to create ALMO organisation such as the KCTMO was made under the Right To Manage legislation passed in 2002
as part of the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act.
9 This was put in place to give leaseholders and tenants a greater say and the ability to self manage, which in some circumstances has clearly proven to be flawed.
10 Which Govt was in a charge when this law was passed? It was Labour.
11 Sadiq Khan as mayor of London Produced a report to say that the fire service did not need further funding.
12 Emma Coad elected Labour MP was on the board of the Tenant Management group who are being accused of not listening to tenants.
It's a modern lynch mob encouraged by bitter Labour MPs who having lost a close election want to destroy an elected government for a chance of a second election.

Just what is the point in copying and pasting something that you don't even know is true?
 
Good old Daily Excess, they should stick to dramatic weather headlines, on second thoughts perhaps not.
 
I tend NOT to believe what any of the papers write, as they all cash in on anything, sadly even people dying. Did anyone see the interview with one of the tenants, who said that when they kicked up about the block being a fire hazard and it needed rubbish moving from inside, they were threatened by both the council workers and other staff with eviction.
 
The Sunday times are reporting the new MP Emma Dent Coad as saying "the fire was entirely preventable. They prettified a building that they felt was ugly. The idea that this has led to this horrendous tragedy is just unthinkable"

This from someone who sat on the management committee of the building! Beautification, wasn't part of the original planning, it was all about reducing the heatings costs, improved insulation. She knows this, yet is jumping on the political blame bandwagon.

To me this is the worse. Rather than helping there are people seeking to try to make political capital.
 
The Sunday times are reporting the new MP Emma Dent Coad as saying "the fire was entirely preventable. They prettified a building that they felt was ugly. The idea that this has led to this horrendous tragedy is just unthinkable"

This from someone who sat on the management committee of the building! Beautification, wasn't part of the original planning, it was all about reducing the heatings costs, improved insulation. She knows this, yet is jumping on the political blame bandwagon.

To me this is the worse. Rather than helping there are people seeking to try to make political capital.
Whats this smear by association?

She's pointing out a fact, fire safety in the block seems to have taken a very low priority, it had been raised numerous times and apparently also by her when she was on the committee. Also she had nothing to do with the refurb, she left in 2012 and the refurb decision was in 2014, and even if she had a part, she's just one member of the committee. Also the beautification was at least in part one of the reasons for the refurb. From the Independent

Screen Shot 2017-06-19 at 10.22.02.png

And the guy attacked by the protesters who stormed the council offices was someone who'd been helping at the makeshift shelters.
Still he had a suit on... Any target for the mob

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...grenfell-tower-protesters-revealed-volunteer/

You still don't get it, people died, some lost their homes and literally everything they possessed. Those that got out with their lives have had a very traumatic experience, some of them will never get over it. They are angry that those in charge seemed not to give a sh!t, including the prime minister. Sure some group are taking advantage of that but this is genuine and well founded anger, and it has shaken the establishment, and rightly so.
 
Sure some group are taking advantage of that but this is genuine and well founded anger, and it has shaken the establishment, and rightly so.
Just how much of it is genuine anger though? How much of it is just s*** stirrers taking advantage of those really affected and their predicament?
 
Now this is interesting - outside of the political finger-pointing:

In a separate development, Panorama has discovered that firefighters put out the first fire at Grenfell Tower.

They were called to a fridge fire, and within minutes told residents the fire was out in the flat. The crew was leaving the building when firefighters outside spotted flames rising up the side of the building.


At the bottom of the page. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40330789

So the fire service were actually on site and working right at the start, before the fire spread?
 
Now this is interesting - outside of the political finger-pointing:

In a separate development, Panorama has discovered that firefighters put out the first fire at Grenfell Tower.

They were called to a fridge fire, and within minutes told residents the fire was out in the flat. The crew was leaving the building when firefighters outside spotted flames rising up the side of the building.


At the bottom of the page. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40330789

So the fire service were actually on site and working right at the start, before the fire spread?


Now that is very interesting.
 
I'm not sure I follow you?

All I really know about the miners strike, living way down south is what the TV / newspapers reported and a friend of mine, a copper at the time ( since retired) told me.

And he delighted in informing me that all the overtime allowed him to put down a decent deposit on a "decent" house..
So I guess there was one winner.
You say at always been the same.No it has not.
 
Now this is interesting - outside of the political finger-pointing:

In a separate development, Panorama has discovered that firefighters put out the first fire at Grenfell Tower.

They were called to a fridge fire, and within minutes told residents the fire was out in the flat. The crew was leaving the building when firefighters outside spotted flames rising up the side of the building.


At the bottom of the page. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40330789

So the fire service were actually on site and working right at the start, before the fire spread?
These letters to politicians shows that there 'seems' to be no approved communication standards. In other words, important issues cannot be kicked around until somebody dies. Only a technical person, not a politician can decide if there is a danger of death. Money does not come into it. Before they can issue a danger of death notice, the technical experts must have the facts on hand that fit exacting technical criteria. Once danger of death notices have been given, politicians legally have to respond. They are now responsible. This gives them the ammunition they need to make all necessary changes. They should not be in a position to postpone it. They mustn't be allowed to prioritise. They can't choose who lives and who dies.

Hopefully these deaths will empower professionals to make the necessary changes and set proper standards for communication, in line with other disciplines. This is not new. The military, police and intelligence organisations have had to do this for many years.
 
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The very sad thing about it all though, lessons will not be learned, now that is sad.
That's what I believe too.
I think you are being needlessly pessimistic. The analogy that was being made immediately after the fire was with the Kings Cross underground station fire in 1989. That was another disaster which, in retrospect, had been "waiting to happen" for years. Lessons were learned, actions were taken, and money was spent. Public transport systems and other places with confined public spaces are unquestionably safer than they were then.
 
I think you are being needlessly pessimistic. The analogy that was being made immediately after the fire was with the Kings Cross underground station fire in 1989. That was another disaster which, in retrospect, had been "waiting to happen" for years. Lessons were learned, actions were taken, and money was spent. Public transport systems and other places with confined public spaces are unquestionably safer than they were then.

Same as the Bradford City fire, lessons learnt there and in both cases smoking was prohibited, the former completely and with the latter in wooden stands.

I keep reading about a gas pipe in Grenfell Tower, thought tower blocks were made all electric after Ronan Point, definitely were in my neck of the woods.
The five twenty one storey blocks that overlooked the O's ground were pulled down ages ago, maybe about time they all were. Lots of my friends lived there and hated it, they housed people from nearby two up, two down houses with outside bogs that were demolished
 
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