London tower block on fire

Now all residents of Hotpoint fridges have been evacuated overnight over safety concerns.
 
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camerassassin said:
And look how quickly other areas/authorities are jumping in to say that their high rise blocks were not using the same stuff as was used on Grenfell Tower
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They might want to revisit that seeing as Camden Council have just moved residents out of 6 such blocks due to safety concerns.

Premiere inn were pretty good at being the only chain to respond to an inquiry. Interesting to see the Maidenhead hotel we stayed in for the Fat Duck has similar cladding, only they are over 3 floors, have sprinklers, several fire escapes and a get out policy.
 
ianp5a said:
Now all residents of Hotpoint fridges have been evacuated overnight over safety concerns.
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Of course, as well as anyone who cooks in their home, as that is the number one cause of accidental dwelling fires.
 
rick448 said:
There have been thousands of fires caused by "White goods" over the years, yes it may turn out that the initial fire was started by a faulty appliance, but, that is not the big issue here. Clearly the issue is why did it spread in such an uncontrollable manner.

There are many serious issues which need addressing here, let's hope that these are dealt with quickly, though it is a tragedy that it has taken this needless loss of life to trigger some action. This is not something that should be expected in a country like this.
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A Public Inquiry has been commissioned. The history of PI's is one of taking forever with mammoth costs and put on a shelf to gather dust. Whereas an Inquiry conducted by an independent panel (such as the recent re-inquiry into Hillsborough) is very much quicker and less costly AND also lawyer free !
 
Flat fires are very common, I've been to hundreds. The thing is that every fire from now on will be treated as a disaster. Some perspective needs applying to these incidents. The Grenfell fire was a genuine tragedy which should never have happened, but it has now and we need to learn from it, but not pretend we are never going to have another fatal dwelling fire. Those happen nearly every day.
 
arclight said:
A Public Inquiry has been commissioned. The history of PI's is one of taking forever with mammoth costs and put on a shelf to gather dust. Whereas an Inquiry conducted by an independent panel (such as the recent re-inquiry into Hillsborough) is very much quicker and less costly AND also lawyer free !
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There is no need to wait for the outcome of a PI before preventative measures can be put in place, in fact many already are being. The problem is that regulations need to change, and like it or not that takes time. The currents regulations can be applied in a way to prevent a reoccurrence of this however, and no doubt cost will not be the number one priority for a while at least. As with most things, cost is the driver, if you pay top dollar with public money you are accused of wasting money, when people die there is an outrage. As with most things there is a middle ground solution.
 
viv1969 said:
Thought I'd read that this particular cladding is banned in Germany.

I still think evacuation is a knee jerk reaction.
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I guess if a big fire does occur, and you are the one that decided they should stay there, any deaths are down to you. If it has been shown to you, that there is a serious risk and regulations were not followed. Prison probably.

But you could ask them to leave and warn them of the danger. And if they stay, you are off the hook.
 
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ianp5a said:
I guess if a big fire does occur, and you are the one that decided they should stay there, any deaths are down to you. If it has been shown to you, that there is a serious risk and regulations were not followed. Prison probably.

But you could ask them to leave and warn them of the danger. And if they stay, you are off the hook.
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The fire was awful. A true disaster. I'm not in any way denying that.

But....look how many buildings have cladding/insulation which has now failed tests.
How long have they had the cladding?
How many fires has there been?

Why remove people from their homes etc., when the simplest and surely more efficient thing is to remove and replace the cladding and insulation.
It's exterior (if rather noisy) work.
Point being, people can remain in residence whilst the work is carried out.
 
ianp5a said:
This is just about the danger. Until it is removed. Not about the inconvenience.
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TBH I think Ruth @viv1969 has a point.
I haven't seen any mass evacuations as yet, on your stance they are all in immediate and present danger, until every single person has been evacuated and re housed.
I wonder exactly how many people that is? And clearly its going to be a logistical nightmare.
Much better to get on rectifying the problem now, than bugger about trying to find god knows how many vacant properties to house them all.
 
Cobra said:
TBH I think Ruth @viv1969 has a point.
I haven't seen any mass evacuations as yet, on your stance they are all in immediate and present danger, until every single person has been evacuated and re housed.
I wonder exactly how many people that is? And clearly its going to be a logistical nightmare.
Much better to get on rectifying the problem now, than bugger about trying to find god knows how many vacant properties to house them all.
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I never wrote that. But whatever.
 
I'll repeat, what I wrote, that I think the people who made the decision to evacuate the building were probably worried about safety reasons rather than inconvenience reasons.
 
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ianp5a said:
I'll repeat, what I wrote, that I think the people who made the decision were probably worried about safety reasons rather than inconvenience reasons.
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I think they were/are worried about looking good.
 
I think the reason given for evacuating the building, was because of missing internal fire doors, not just the cladding, amongst other things.

On our local news tonight, there was a refurbished tower which passed fire regs less than a year ago, but today it failed the same tests?
 
On Radio 2 this morning, there was a lot of talk about the judge being appointed (already condemned by many ) and complaints about the police ( conspiracy theories about the number of deaths); a lot of people "think" the numbers are higher but seem to miss the point that nobody can be sure of anything with sub- letting taking place, no up to date list available. Just let them do their jobs, I say. Undoubtedly things went wrong at Hillsborough but this isn't that.
 
So the Kensington and Chelsea council meeting was abandoned last night after they refused to have it with the press present.
http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/30/kensi...ing-after-journalists-are-allowed-in-6745193/

I'm not sure the Labour councillor Robert Atkinson, who was all over the media today calling for resignations, quite understood his implications. "!The council were at fault so the leader needs to resign", but he's been part of the council for several years. More political shenanigans?

Also the story that the cladding was changed for a cheaper version, saving £300,000
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40453054

hidden in that story is: Despite their differences, both types of cladding have the same official fire rating.
So why wouldn't you fit something you're told has the same fire rating but is £300K cheaper?
 
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OldCarlos said:
I think the reason given for evacuating the building, was because of missing internal fire doors, not just the cladding, amongst other things.

On our local news tonight, there was a refurbished tower which passed fire regs less than a year ago, but today it failed the same tests?
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Be interesting to know why fire doors were missing, were they nicked or just not put in?
 
There was a report that some residents had removed internal doors to make it 'open plan'
 
Byker28i said:
Also the story that the cladding was changed for a cheaper version, saving £300,000
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40453054

hidden in that story is: Despite their differences, both types of cladding have the same official fire rating.
So why wouldn't you fit something you're told has the same fire rating but is £300K cheaper?
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Indeed. Why wouldn't you? It's hard to see how the council are at fault for wanting to save money, if the bit about the fire ratings is correct.
 
StewartR said:
Indeed. Why wouldn't you? It's hard to see how the council are at fault for wanting to save money, if the bit about the fire ratings is correct.
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Of course, but this can be spun to look like 'evil people consider 100 lives aren't worth £300K'.
 
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