Marking as a camera club Judge

[DG Phototraining]

For the past year or so I've been a club Judge for the Yorkshire Photographic Union (YPU), and marking, as in awarding points, is the oddest part of it - here's why...

Many moons ago when I first joined a club that did competitions I was told that they used to mark from 0-10, but then decided that that range wasn't enough as often people wanted to mark such as 8.5, because an image was better than another 8 but not as good as a 9

So the range was extended from 0-20 - makes perfect sense yes?


But then, they added, people got upset if they scored less than a 10, so 10 was adopted as being... 'What a newbie could get with everything on auto'

Over the next few years giving a 10 became seen as an insult too, but a 20 was rarely given as 'No image can be perfect' !!!


Roll on to being a Judge now and needing to find out what each club wants of me, and I've already had this...

1 - one club uses the full 0-20 range

2 - another advises that its 0-20 but don't give below a 10

3 - another that its 0-20 but they consider 12 to be their bottom mark to avoid upset

4 - several want no marks other than placings of 1st, 2nd, 3rd and maybe a Highly Commended or Commended

5 - another is 0-20 but don't give below a 10, and the best image of the set gets a 20, even if I actually think the whole set hasn't got an image worthy of a 20 the best still gets one

6 - another has the best 5 images as 20, 19 ,18, 17, 16 and everything else can only score 15 or less, but not below 10. If there are 5 great images worthy of an 18 but no higher, then the best 18 becomes a 20 and the worst 18 a 16; any images worthy of a 16 or 17 can't be marked higher than a 15

Funny eh lol


Now this isn't a rant at all and I do encourage everyone to at least try a club at some point as I believe being a member does improve your photography, even if only by getting you out & about more to shoot on a theme

I do have a query though - and its this...

What marking system would YOU want if you were expecting a mark on your images ???

Would you like to just know you were 1st, 2nd, 3rd or didn't place at all? This seems least 'hurtful', but you have no idea from one comp to the next if you're getting better unless you are in that top 3

Or would you like a mark so over the months/years you can see your improvement?

Cheers

Dave

 

[sirch]

This kind of thing is exactly what puts me off joining a club.

 

[Dale.]

This is a subject I've often pondered having suffered the joys of club competition. I changed clubs this year and my old club adopted the 0-20 scale, with commendeds and highly commendeds being used for 17 pts too if the image wasn't quite an 18 but too good to be a 17. The problem I had with this system was that whilst this marking system fundamentally works, I felt it was a little unfair as beginners were up against potentially world class photographers (there are a few of them at my old club) and taking part in that company meant that weaker images were marked down to make room for the top guys. I think the 0-20 system works better when there are categories, like beginner, inter and advanced, then images should be in the right company respectively and judged accordingly. Also, judging tends to be subjective and it can hurt when an image that has previously scored a 20, gets a 16 in another competition. Been there, not nice.

My current club uses the placing systems, with commended, highly commended and 3rd, 2nd and 1st places announced. The jury is out for me on it, I've only taken part in one open using the system and I won but the pleasure of winning obviously did my confidence the power of good but I can imagine those that only got comments might have felt a little shortchanged, as they have no number to compare against.

I don't think there is a perfect sytem and whilst the placings system is more gentle, the marking system which can be brutal is a better gauge I think and inspires people to improve, it certainly did that for me.

Maybe a unified system would be better, were all clubs have to imply the same set up, I'm not sure.

The joys of competitions, they can be brutal and a thick skin is often needed. At the end of the day, whilst winning feels good, it shouldn't be about that, it should be about improving.

 

[Solo man]

No wonder photographers think they are better than they are if the marking is being judged this way.... it's the judges fault then. How fair is it in the long term if you keep telling someone they are a 10(which is average if you use the 0-20 system) when in all honesty they are a 0 or maybe a 1.

If I wanted a mark for an image... I'd like to get an honest mark in the 0 -10 range, and with at least some written explanation(least that way you can decide the 'worth' of a judge's score)

 

[DG Phototraining]

Some good points there already guys, thanks - shame about sirch being put off though

Dales. correctly points out that once exposure, sharpness etc. - basically the techie stuff - is sorted then the rest is subjective and this is a good thing as if we all liked the same it would be very formulaic and boring. A thick skin is defo needed, and while I fully appreciate the idea of a range of markings to reflect Newbie, Experienced and Awesome levels of photographers in a club I do know of several that tried it, and all abandoned it after a few years. I'm not sure why but the consensus is that it doesn't work

As for Solo man's assertion that its the Judges fault, I have to disagree with this as we are there to work within the guidelines set by the clubs we are judging at. If I had my way I'd have the full 0-20 each time; written explanations though on 50ish (usually) images where there's no payment for doing so is never going to happen, on the night I give as much helpful info as I can yet each judging (without writing) is still a 5-7 hour's commitment of time

Dave

 

[gerry s]

Personally I think you should decide which method you want to use and let everybody know your system. You should be true to yourself and not pander to everybody else's wishes. If they don't want to use you it would be their loss.
Either that or give me 20 and just sprinkle the rest amongst the others.

 

[Solo man]

Some good points there already guys, thanks - shame about sirch being put off though



As for Solo man's assertion that its the Judges fault, I have to disagree with this as we are there to work within the guidelines set by the clubs we are judging at. If I had my way I'd have the full 0-20 each time; written explanations though on 50ish (usually) images where there's no payment for doing so is never going to happen, on the night I give as much helpful info as I can yet each judging (without writing) is still a 5-7 hour's commitment of time

Dave

Ok... I'll rephrase that to the 'judging system' then... as I take your point that you have to mark to 'a set system'...
How can anyone justify a 0-20 marking range if.... 'we can't go below 10 because so and so might be upset'?. How you can say to someone ok, you have 11 out of 20, and they go away thinking "cool I'm not that crap then", when in theory they would have score 1 out of 10(or 1 out of 20 even)...where does honestly trying to improve someone's photography come in?.
Written explanations...sure, I wasn't expecting an essay, but something along the lines of 'this lost a mark because....' (when you know that that might help someone improve'.)
In saying all that though...like Sirch I would never join a camera club ...and part of the reason is because of those systems that in are place...the other part is I'm anti-social anyway.

 

[Nawty]

I quite like the competition format:

Overall winner
Gold medal
Silver medal
Bronze medal
Commended
Bunch of Arse

Where more than one photo can win a medal but there is only one overall winner.

Alternatively, you could do it like they do with wine - a 100 point system were, to paraphrase:
50 is 'undrinkable but at least you have liquid in a bottle'
60 is below average
70 is average
80 is good
90 is excellent
95 is outstanding

You can then argue the toss about the integers in between, which is actually quite helpful because it effectively tiers you into groups so I could, for example, compare my images to my fellow 60-something point photographers.

Otherwise I would like a 0-10 system which forces the judges to differentiate, for me a half mark is basically a mark from a judge without conviction.

Any yes, this is why I doubt I'll ever find myself in a photography club competition.

 

[DG Phototraining]

Personally I think you should decide which method you want to use and let everybody know your system. You should be true to yourself and not pander to everybody else's wishes. If they don't want to use you it would be their loss.

We work FOR the club hence under their guidance, if Judges ignored what the clubs wanted there'd soon be no Judges

Dave

 

[welshwizard645]

We have the 0-20, C and HC in our club - but the competition is divided further into intermediate and advanced - if you have a lot of success in the intermediates then you are promoted to 'advanced' to avoid someone dominating the competition.

I remember once another photographer who was invited to judge a competition was told afterwards he would never be invited back after giving someone less than 10.

We had a strange situation in our club recently in the annual competition - an open competition with lots of categories. There were worthy category winners (my OH being one) but what annoyed some people was that the club hierarchy allowed the judge to chose an overall winner - but not from the category winners...the overall winner was our club secretary - followed by lots of murmerings around the room.

A good Yorkshire put down for a poor photo in a competition I remember from my time in Ripon was 'Nice Mount'

 

[DG Phototraining]

We have the 0-20, C and HC in our club - but the competition is divided further into intermediate and advanced - if you have a lot of success in the intermediates then you are promoted to 'advanced' to avoid someone dominating the competition.

I remember once another photographer who was invited to judge a competition was told afterwards he would never be invited back after giving someone less than 10.

We had a strange situation in our club recently in the annual competition - an open competition with lots of categories. There were worthy category winners (my OH being one) but what annoyed some people was that the club hierarchy allowed the judge to chose an overall winner - but not from the category winners...the overall winner was our club secretary - followed by lots of murmerings around the room.

A good Yorkshire put down for a poor photo in a competition I remember from my time in Ripon was 'Nice Mount'

Nice mount - I'll have t remember that one

Unless its a known pal of mine though I never do any put-downs. I did a fun comment recently that got lots of laughs and a few boos when a stunning bird image came up and I said something like... When I first saw this great, sharp image it immediately jumped out at me that it could only have been shot on a Nikon I'd already seen the exif data so knew it was a Canon lol

Interesting comments there too, thanks

Dave

 

[Nostromo]

We don't have a points system, we have 1st , 2nd, 3rd and 2 highly commended and 3 commented. There's also two classes, intermediate and advanced .

 

[MilliSnaps]

The idea of a sole judge or even a small judging panel is just too subjective for me. If i were of a certain level within a camera club sufficient enough to bring about change here is what i would do:

Aim: To determine the 'best' image from a sample of images (a numerical figure is irrelevant)

Method:

• Everyone uploads whichever image/s they wish to enter.
• There is an online poll (easy to implement on most forums nowadays)
• Everyone gets to vote one on the poll and the chips lie where they fall

I see this being an answer to a fair few problems. One potential issue is; say there are 15 votes across 5 images, one image has been voted for 11 times with the others having 1 a piece then we wouldn't really know the ranking, but to combat this we can just use a poll which asks you to pick your 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice.

I think the voting system is fairer and it can be applied to individual polls for separate categories if needs be, it also could be used for WelshWizard645's promotion system which i quite like.

I have no idea how camera club's operate but the idea of getting a single pro in to cast their judgement doesn't sit too well with me.

Call me democratic, but i think it could work.

 

[juggler]

10 was adopted as being... 'What a newbie could get with everything on auto'

This seems daft. Someone could take a bloody good picture on auto. Or just as easily get something utterly terrible. Are both worth a 10?

Disclaimer.. Still never been to a club. A friend's recent experience has completely put me off. Had his really quite good stuff ripped to bits by someone who's own work varies from sh*te to not-bad-but-cliched and is now considering giving up altogether.

 

[TimmyG]

I guess I can see the logic in a club not wanting to upset its members, and I understand everyone if different. From my point of view if I had submitted a photo i would just want and expect fair/honest feedback. If that means I get a score less than 10 (which is highly likely anyway) then so be it. I could then decide if I agreed with it or not and if so, try to find out where I was going wrong or go and do something else entirely. Either way without that honest feedback I'd be wasting time repeating my mistakes and heading in wrong direction.

 

[reheat module]

Lots of differing ideas here, - good to see.
As far as put downs are concerned, one judge (at the coffee break), made the mistake of asking "Are there any questions"?
Quick as a flash, (anonymous hehe) said - "Can your guide dog have a biscuit..."?
Judge did see the funny side of it.

 

[juggler]

Thinking again.. I quite like FStoppers ranking system

0 = without merit
1 = snapshot
2 = needs work
3 = solid, i.e. portfolio worthy
4 = excellent
5 = world class.​

It's interesting because there's a lot of stuff which is nearly excellent but actually needs work, usually more careful post processing. It's not very nuanced - and that's a good thing. It should be fairly obvious whether an image needs work or not.

 

[viewfromthenorth]

We work FOR the club hence under their guidance, if Judges ignored what the clubs wanted there'd soon be no Judges

Dave

In my camera club days, we had a 0-20 system, which probably worked like you described in 5 and 6. Each photographer’s scores were added up through the year and the one with the highest score at the end of it won a trophy or something. It worked well, until a judge came along and decided to ignore the scoring methodology we’d advised and consequently sent the league table into disarray by scoring everything below 10 except the top 3 which he gave 18,19,20 to. He wasn’t invited back.

The primary thing I got from competitions was the feedback, it certainly helped my development as a photographer, even if some of it was utter nonsense e.g. criticised for burnt out highlights in the sun, or a sunset picture of a cruise ship being scored down because although he loved the picture, he thought the design of the ship was ugly, or the comments on one of my photos basically describing it as the best photograph in the competition and promptly awarding me 13 out of 20, etc

I’ve only judged one photo competition, the Brownedge Arts Festival, and there was well over 300 entries! It took me all afternoon to sort through them all and was not an easy task. There was also a competition for schools which had fewer but the standard was absolutely appalling – poor photographs, badly printed and badly presented. I didn’t award a second or third place, just a winner as the rest were that bad. I was approached afterwards by a teacher and it turned out they were all from her GCSE photography class, and what was wrong with them? Take this the right way, I said, but other than one or two, the quality simply wasn’t good enough. She retorted, that was the point of the exercise I’d set the class, to produce prints using old mounts and frames, on cheap paper. I retorted – well how the hell was I to know that? It was an open competition with no theme! She went off in a huff.

Who’d be a judge?!

 

[drounding]

On what basis is the grading calculated? What factors are considered and what weighting is given to them? What are the marking rules as it were?
I think it's important to feedback both the aspects achieved and the aspects requiring work. A good image is of course very subjective.

 

[DG Phototraining]

I have no idea how camera club's operate but the idea of getting a single pro in to cast their judgement doesn't sit too well with me.

Your ideas are pretty close to what normally happens. In our club everyone marked anonymously and those marks were averaged to create the rankings. This happened to most comps every year but there was a problem, and this problem is why many clubs bring in outside Judges

The problem is either favouritism or dislike !!! In a club everyone gets to recognise pretty much everyone else's work, cliques develop and vote better for each other sometimes, just as some vote down the people they don't like. We had one husband & wife who did that so obviously to increase their own chances that the rules were changed to block them !!!

If that didn't happen then there'd be little need for outsiders, other than a fresh view on things from time to time

Also - very few of the Judges are Pros in any line of work, the vast majority are just club members offering to judge at other clubs

Dave

 

[Clactonian]

I belong to two clubs one of which uses the 0-10 system and the other 0-20. I have no strong feelings about either system as the actual mark is irrelevant to me. It is the judges comments that are of more interest to me along with how my images compare with those of colleagues' on the night. Judging is so subjective and when you have a different judge for each competition I can see no point in getting to screwed up over the actual marks.
I do get irritated when judges for whatever reason skimp on the comments. If a print or PDI is bad then say why, conversely if a brilliant image is worthy of full marks against the competition tell us why so that we may all learn from the experience.
With regard to the comment above that no print is perfect therefore should not get full marks, I was of the opinion that a judge was marking what was presented to him in that particular competition. If one or more prints are by comparison ahead of the others surely they get the full mark.

 

[DG Phototraining]

On what basis is the grading calculated? What factors are considered and what weighting is given to them? What are the marking rules as it were?
I think it's important to feedback both the aspects achieved and the aspects requiring work. A good image is of course very subjective.

First it has to fit the theme to be marked at all. After that its a range of techie issues, and there's room for a full subjective appraisal too - which is why some that get a 20 from one Judge may get 18/19 from another, though a 20 dropping to a 16 as was mentioned above is odd

To give you an idea - here's what one Club Sec wrote of me in his appraisal to the YPU

“Overall a very fair assessment of the images in the competition, as there were some good and not so good images. We have a lot of new members who are only just getting to grips with photography and there is an obvious range of talents. However there was real diverse range of subjects in the images and David showed a good understanding of each. He came across as confident and knowledgeable without being too critical. Yet he pointed out the major errors despite the lack of time for in depth analysis (due to the large number of images) and he offered suggestions to correct including photoshop tips and corrections. We asked David beforehand to use a wide range of marks which he did (6-19) so that gave us plenty to differentiate the good ones. The general consensus was that he was one of the best judges we’ve had! Certainly wont hesitate to ask him back.”

Dave

 

[MilliSnaps]

Your ideas are pretty close to what normally happens. In our club everyone marked anonymously and those marks were averaged to create the rankings. This happened to most comps every year but there was a problem, and this problem is why many clubs bring in outside Judges

The problem is either favouritism or dislike !!! In a club everyone gets to recognise pretty much everyone else's work, cliques develop and vote better for each other sometimes, just as some vote down the people they don't like. We had one husband & wife who did that so obviously to increase their own chances that the rules were changed to block them !!!

If that didn't happen then there'd be little need for outsiders, other than a fresh view on things from time to time

Also - very few of the Judges are Pros in any line of work, the vast majority are just club members offering to judge at other clubs

Dave

Ah, I see why that could be an issue then!

I didn't realise people could easily recognise each other's work so i hadn't thought of that. The only way to combat this that springs to mind is to have a sort of 'compliance officer' who does quality control on the votes, but it sounds like you do this already by the fact you were able to identify the husband & wife couple and block them..

I probably wouldn't even include a down vote option as that just opens itself up to abuse.

Sounds like there will never be a perfect solution that caters for everything so i understand your predicament.

 

[DG Phototraining]

I belong to two clubs one of which uses the 0-10 system and the other 0-20. I have no strong feelings about either system as the actual mark is irrelevant to me. It is the judges comments that are of more interest to me along with how my images compare with those of colleagues' on the night. Judging is so subjective and when you have a different judge for each competition I can see no point in getting to screwed up over the actual marks.
I do get irritated when judges for whatever reason skimp on the comments. If a print or PDI is bad then say why, conversely if a brilliant image is worthy of full marks against the competition tell us why so that we may all learn from the experience.
With regard to the comment above that no print is perfect therefore should not get full marks, I was of the opinion that a judge was marking what was presented to him in that particular competition. If one or more prints are by comparison ahead of the others surely they get the full mark.

Totes agree with that

The comment of no image being perfect enough for a 20 was from a club, its not my or most judges views

I am to give helpful commentary & advise rather than just a mark as I agree that's more useful. Sometimes time limits just don't really allow for it sadly

Dave

 

[DG Phototraining]

Sounds like there will never be a perfect solution that caters for everything so i understand your predicament.

And this perfectly sums up the problem

There is no 'best way' there's only the way each club wants, and by club that means how the members have voted for the rules to be moulded to how they best think it works. Many clubs change how they do things over time

Dave

 

[SteveSc]

I've only just become a member at my local club and have yet to go to a competition night. I have seen the results of a couple of the competitions and the scores don't seem to have gone below 14/15 but I don't know if that is intentional or just the way the results have gone.

For me, if I do put a picture in I would hope to get an honest score (even if that was a 1) that would give me a true indication of the level that photo was at and some form of comment to understand the marking would be helpful.

The club I have just joined do one evening a month where members can take photos along and have critique from one of our own club judges and others at the evening (without any marking) and being a smaller group it gives opportunity to talk about what you were trying to achieve as well. I have been to two of these and found them most helpful, both for my own pictures but also looking at and discussing others pictures.

 

[Steve Smith]

Thinking again.. I quite like FStoppers ranking system

0 = without merit
1 = snapshot
2 = needs work
3 = solid, i.e. portfolio worthy
4 = excellent
5 = world class..​

If it's FStopper's system, it should be:

f2.8 = without merit
f4. = snapshot
f5.6 = needs work
f8 = solid, i.e. portfolio worthy
f11 = excellent
f16 = world class


Steve.​

 

[DG Phototraining]

I've only just become a member at my local club and have yet to go to a competition night. I have seen the results of a couple of the competitions and the scores don't seem to have gone below 14/15 but I don't know if that is intentional or just the way the results have gone.

For me, if I do put a picture in I would hope to get an honest score (even if that was a 1) that would give me a true indication of the level that photo was at and some form of comment to understand the marking would be helpful.

The club I have just joined do one evening a month where members can take photos along and have critique from one of our own club judges and others at the evening (without any marking) and being a smaller group it gives opportunity to talk about what you were trying to achieve as well. I have been to two of these and found them most helpful, both for my own pictures but also looking at and discussing others pictures.

Not going below a 14/15 is either a sign of a good set of images or a cowardly judge, too often the latter

Comments and proper critique is what matters more than marks really, though you'd be surprised how competitive some people can be and how much ranting they can give if they think they've been marked too low

I'm glad that what your club does is working for you

Dave

 

[DG Phototraining]

If it's FStopper's system, it should be:

f2.8 = without merit
f4. = snapshot
f5.6 = needs work
f8 = solid, i.e. portfolio worthy
f11 = excellent
f16 = world class


Steve.​

But most lenses are lower quality at f16 than f8

Dave

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Interedying thread.

Back in the 1980's our club competitions were always judged by someone who had earned at least an ARPS after their name (we had a few FRPS judges too). We would often have visiting 'pro togs' who were pappy to judge our competitions and they tended to be on the 'gentle' side with comments.

There was always murmurings about the judges!

I would say that there were a few members for whom their life was incomplete if they did not win something at every competition.

Eventually we reduced the compeitition to an annual event and the pictures were often on ahow for a few days in the local library, with a judge to fo a main walkabout and a separate 'visitor' marking sheet.

I understand how there are differences in how judging and marking can cause problems and, in my opinion, I cannot see a way that any marking system is ever going to be ideal. Perception of the 'value' of a photographic image will always be through the eye of the beholder. Yku will never please everyone all the time. During my time as club chairman I praised anyone who had the 'bottle' to display their work. There had to be winners but , for me, never any losers.

It has been a lkng time since I have been a commited camer club member. I have been to a few but have found a few to be too focussed on being a competitive arena. I prefer a more inclusive and learning 'club'.

Maybe I will find one in time that has a balance that makes people want to join up.

Steve

 

[Alastair]

So what are you scoring the image on? - the whole image, or a series of defined characters? The scale used is less relevant than the criteria of the assessment.

I did consider joining a local club for competitions, but their published scoring criteria was a put-off.

 

[gerry s]

We work FOR the club hence under their guidance, if Judges ignored what the clubs wanted there'd soon be no Judges

Dave

So if you 'work' for the club and they have one set of criteria and you 'work' for another club that has another, what happens in an inter club competition. Please don't take the above as sarcasm but I have never belonged to a photographic club and am just curios. I have visited one a few times for various talks and found it a little bit of an eye opener.

 

[DG Phototraining]

So if you 'work' for the club and they have one set of criteria and you 'work' for another club that has another, what happens in an inter club competition. Please don't take the above as sarcasm but I have never belonged to a photographic club and am just curios. I have visited one a few times for various talks and found it a little bit of an eye opener.

You take the guidance from the 'Home' club, but they have already agreed these with the 'Away' club anyway

Dave

 

[Nod]

Open letter to the secretaries of the clubs...

"Dear Sirs/Madams, below are the marking guidelines you have asked us to follow. Please make your bloody minds up as to which we're expected to follow!
Yours in (little) hope, David."

So glad I'm not a judge of anything subjective since any decision will probably put someone's nose out of joint.

 

[Nostromo]

To be fair to the judges we have, they've all said it is just their thoughts/opinion. And have said that a different judge is likely to critique differently and may like an image more than they do.

 

[dancook]

He's an idea, not saying it's any good - just came to mind.

20 point system, 4 categories - composition, lighting, subject and.... technical? maybe something else.

Then people can see a break down, and see what might need to be improved to up theirs score.

 

[ian-83]

Wow glad my camera club doesn't use a scoring system like this except for once a year when we have a photo exhibition. Our regular club meets are an open floor type theme where we go through everyone's photo's and anyone can make a comment good or bad, or maybe how they'd improve something or why the photo was taken in such a way etc. More constructive criticism to help everyone improve or think about things differently than here's a score, try and better it next time.

 

[reheat module]

He's an idea, not saying it's any good - just came to mind.

20 point system, 4 categories - composition, lighting, subject and.... technical? maybe something else.

Then people can see a break down, and see what might need to be improved to up theirs score.

Tried that, 4 headers; - focus, exposure, composition and wow-factor, each with 5pts, total = 20
Same criteria for each image from the same judge; gave consistency and a useful crib-sheet for him to talk from about the images.

 

[Harlequin565]

Great thread Dave. Interesting replies.

I teach Lightroom at our local college and get quite a few camera club members attending. When we talk about Survey mode, and self-critique, things can get a bit heated (in a good way). People* generally seem to feel that they are shooting for the judge. Knowing who the judge is helps them enter photos with what they perceive a better chance of winning. At the "top" end of the judging, it becomes subjective (I imagine?) as all the basics are covered - composition, sharpness, over/under exposure etc. This can become disheartening to those of us (myself included) who take photos of stuff that doesn't appeal to the judge. It becomes less about "good photography" and more about "what the judge likes".

Your comment :

believe being a member does improve your photography, even if only by getting you out & about more to shoot on a theme

is absolutely right on the money. That's how it should be. But...

What marking system would YOU want if you were expecting a mark on your images ???

has little to do with improvement. Unfortunately, because of...

written explanations though on 50ish (usually) images where there's no payment for doing so is never going to happen

there is a problem.

Most of the clubs local to me are competition focused, and that puts me off - because at its heart, it's not about improvement - it's about winning. I think that clubs who want to focus on improving their members' skills need to rethink that attitude with a different approach to competition that is less focussed on one person's opinion and more about understanding "what makes an engaging photo". Or maybe they should pay a judge to give reasoned critique to all entrants!? I enter our village show photography competition every year and won best in class twice, followed by a three year void After actually hearing the judges comments as he was judging in 2016 (I was stewarding the home-made liqueurs judge ) I ended up thinking what Paul said.

"Can your guide dog have a biscuit..."?

So quality of judging has to be also looked at... Where did I leave my sour grapes...?

*people on my LR courses over the last 2 years (say around 60 people?)

 

[viewfromthenorth]

I bought this little book off Blurb a few years back, it's a common sense guide to judging and should be a good starting point for all competition judges. In fact I'd recommend it even if you aren't judging competitions for the insight it gives.

http://www.blurb.co.uk/b/2932165-looking-at-photographs


My old club always had external judged so it was always impartial, but I know of clubs that judge internally which can lead to insularity. But I would agree with the perils of shooting for the judge, as it leads to a lack of diversity in the entrants - I well remember all those high impact composite images with a prominent figure in the foreground (usually taken at Whitby Goth weekend........) against a different background when we used to get travelling salon or PAGB portfolios coming to the club.