New Nikon Z (zee) 7 Mirrorless.

Say Zeeee…Zeeee…. Nigh-kon Zeeee.

My review? If you can't talk proper you can keep your flipping camera! ;)
 
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Allo Allo is on Tv and zee zee seems apt.

"Listen carefully. I shall say this only once. I want a zee zee."
 
The more we see of it, the less concerned I think current Sony or Fuji or even M43 users will be. There's some strange omissions, no eye AF? even my little G80 does this. No move focus on the touch screen when it's up to your eye? again, my G80 does this. No flip out screen - vloggers will be uninterested from the off. One card slot - pro's are out, unless they buy it as a side, casual camera.

Another first look here, by Steve Buscemi's little brother:
 
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Cagey75 said:
The more we see of it, the less concerned I think current Sony or Fuji or even M43 users will be. There's some strange omissions, no eye AF? even my little G80 does this. No move focus on the touch screen when it's up to your eye? again, my G80 does this. No flip out screen - vloggers will be uninterested from the off. One card slot - pro's are out, unless they buy it as a side, casual camera.

Another first look here, by Steve Buscemi's little brother:
Click to expand...

Lets not forget that this is a pre-production model. A lot of what you have mentioned can be added via software.
I'm certainly not saying this is going to be the greatest camera in the world, but it's good to see the likes of Nikon and hopefully canon getting into the Mirrorless market.
 
It's been rushed as Nikon realised they'd been left behind.



Mirrorless manufacturers say: "We're developing mirrorless, it'll take folks away from DSLRs"

Nikon say: "Never, we are the mighty Nikon and you littleuns can do what you want. You won't hurt us with your silly silent bodies"


A few years go by.


Nikon say: "Oh s***! Better get on the bandwagon. We'll rush it out quick, no one will know we've done that."
 
3 axis stabilization only for adapted lenses, booooo

I've noticed a fair amount of lag on the touch screen af in some of the preview videos too.
 
Not sure i fully understood it but i saw something about the lens not stopping down past f5.6 if you wanted to AF focus stopped down, if this is so then even if Sigma F mount lenses work the lenses like the 150-600 f6.3 lenses would fail.
I struggled to understand what they where saying because my Olympus will focus with adapted lenses well stopped down.
 
mikew said:
Not sure i fully understood it but i saw something about the lens not stopping down past f5.6 if you wanted to AF focus stopped down, if this is so then even if Sigma F mount lenses work the lenses like the 150-600 f6.3 lenses would fail.
I struggled to understand what they where saying because my Olympus will focus with adapted lenses well stopped down.
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When focusing it will only stop down to 5.6 max, but when you click the shutter it stops down the rest of the way - say you're set to f/8, it will close from 5.6 to 8 only once you press down on the shutter. My Pany G80 focuses lenses wide open in semi auto modes, so if it's say a 1.7 lens, that's what it will focus at, but then stop down as you engage the shutter. This can lead to focus shift with some lenses, the 25mm 1.7 suffers from this in all but M mode. In Manual mode the lens will stop down to whatever you set it to pre-exposure, which is handy for macro, but a lot less light is coming in and can affect AF [For macro you should be manual focusing generally] They're saying Nikon Z does a bit of in-between the 2 extremes
 
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For those who like video, apparently the Z7 will only do 10-15 minutes per charge...
 
ecoleman said:
I'm certainly not saying this is going to be the greatest camera in the world, but it's good to see the likes of Nikon and hopefully canon getting into the Mirrorless market.
Click to expand...

They had no choice, it is the the future. While the others pushed mirrorless technology forwards, both Nikon and Canon focused on pushing mature DSLR bodies out with no real room for future advances. Yes DSLR's make them profits and they work but the market have now begun to shift and consumers wan't more, more features and possibly just something different / a change.

When Sony started making waves with their second generation of A7 bodies that things got interesting and this is when I believed both Nikon and Canon started to get worried.

It's good to see they have finally seen sense but its clear that they will have a up-hill battle to catch up to Sony.
Own goals like only having 1x XQD slot on their first mirrorless offerings is a massive negative, I can see why they did it but Nikon should have gone all out from the off and now save the better bodies / dual cards for their Z9 etc
 
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Trouble is all this R&D costs money which is reflected in the retail price of both cameras and lenses ,and there also tied to Sony sensors so at best there always going to be playing second fiddle , and as was pointed out to me yesterday they have a slower burst rate but with a larger sensor ,yes it might give better quality but with limitations . Nikon have now jumped on the bandwagon so the market is going to change in the next few years .but which way ?
 
Cagey75 said:
When focusing it will only stop down to 5.6 max, but when you click the shutter it stops down the rest of the way - say you're set to f/8, it will close from 5.6 to 8 only once you press down on the shutter. My Pany G80 focuses lenses wide open in semi auto modes, so if it's say a 1.7 lens, that's what it will focus at, but then stop down as you engage the shutter. This can lead to focus shift with some lenses, the 25mm 1.7 suffers from this in all but M mode. In Manual mode the lens will stop down to whatever you set it to pre-exposure, which is handy for macro, but a lot less light is coming in and can affect AF [For macro you should be manual focusing generally] They're saying Nikon Z does a bit of in-between the 2 extremes
Click to expand...
The problem Nikon (and other mirrorless makers before them) are trying to solve is aperture related focus drift -- that the point of best focus varies with aperture, but on the other hand it's easier for the hardware to settle on the best focus when the aperture is wide enough to create obvious blur on things which are slightly out of focus. That problem is worst with the increasingly fashionable very wide aperture lenses. It's more of a problem with mirrorless because in general their AF is more accurate because of the absence of the focus sensor calibration problems which affect DSLRs, so people use manual focus less often, possibly never, and expect the AF to be more accurate. The current usual compromise of settling on an aperture at which to do the AF which is above widest open is a compromise which will usually get better focus for those shooters who use AF all the time and expect the camera to get it right all the time, even though some of them also insist that you shouldn't let the camera choose (or even suggest) the exposure settings.
 
Mr Bump said:
looks really good to me, I think Nikon are focussing (pun) more on quality of image rather than features, the market is already full of mirrorless cameras that do tricks and stunts.
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I dunno about that. Isn't just about any camera and lens combination better than most of us on this site these days?

To me image quality is pretty much a given so a camera needs a different USP. Maybe the USP could be a saving in bulk and weight, maybe it could be the features I want or it could just be a lovely thing that I just want.... but image quality isn't something to worry about... really... is it?
 
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Is there any way this thread can be combined with the other one rather than having two discussing the same thing? I'll get lost knowing what I've posted where :LOL:

Plus there's a mistake in the title, it should be Z (zed) :p (yes I've seen the videos, but I refuse to call it zee ;))
 
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I have a feeling that Canon will bring out a good mirrorless product, maybe not to the current Sony, fuji etc cameras, but a good start,although I have absolutely no evidence to back this up, it's just a feeling.
They have already dabbled into mirrorless with their M cameras, they already have a good dual pixel focus system (ok it's not in the same league as dedicated mirrorless systems).
 
Nostromo said:
I have a feeling that Canon will bring out a good mirrorless product, maybe not to the current Sony, fuji etc cameras, but a good start,although I have absolutely no evidence to back this up, it's just a feeling.
They have already dabbled into mirrorless with their M cameras, they already have a good dual pixel focus system (ok it's not in the same league as dedicated mirrorless systems).
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Albeit with an inferior sensor :exit: ;)
 
Nostromo said:
I have a feeling that Canon will bring out a good mirrorless product, maybe not to the current Sony, fuji etc cameras, but a good start,although I have absolutely no evidence to back this up, it's just a feeling.
They have already dabbled into mirrorless with their M cameras, they already have a good dual pixel focus system (ok it's not in the same league as dedicated mirrorless systems).
Click to expand...

I'm sure I read somewhere that there's some serious issue with that system but I can't remember what it said... anyone interested could possibly google there way to an explanation but I'm sure I read somewhere that other systems are better - for whatever reason. If that is the case maybe any future Canon FF morrorless will drop the dual pixel tech and use something else.
 
woof woof said:
I'm sure I read somewhere that there's some serious issue with that system but I can't remember what it said... anyone interested could possibly google there way to an explanation but I'm sure I read somewhere that other systems are better - for whatever reason. If that is the case maybe any future Canon FF morrorless will drop the dual pixel tech and use something else.
Click to expand...

I have the Canon M50 and use it with the 200mm L, 100-400 L and 17-50 2.8; In terms of the Dual Pixel AF, it is brilliant. No complaints at all, it is seriously fast and accurate. I think many willl confirm this as well, followers on the M series thread rate this, the M6 and M5 highly
 
stickytape said:
I have the Canon M50 and use it with the 200mm L, 100-400 L and 17-50 2.8; In terms of the Dual Pixel AF, it is brilliant. No complaints at all, it is seriously fast and accurate. I think many willl confirm this as well, followers on the M series thread rate this, the M6 and M5 highly
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I honestly can't remember where I read this but I'm sure it was on a credible blog/site. There's some limitation or other. I wish I could remember but someone will doubtless come forward with either an explanation or a defence :D From the little I remember there are apparently / allegedly better ways of doing it.

I'll have a google but blogs and sites tend to add articles regularly and it might be lost in the blizzard by now.
 
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woof woof said:
I'm sure I read somewhere that there's some serious issue with that system but I can't remember what it said... anyone interested could possibly google there way to an explanation but I'm sure I read somewhere that other systems are better - for whatever reason. If that is the case maybe any future Canon FF morrorless will drop the dual pixel tech and use something else.
Click to expand...
I agree, there are other systems that are better, I just think that Canon have been developing their own sensors for a while now and have been looking into ways of sensor focusing giving them a bit of a head start over Nikon, so are relying on sony (who obviously make a good sensor for their own camera's), but there is a bit of a conflict of interests there.
 
If the dual pixel tech does have some drawback or limitation for future tech that might not mean that Canon will go with a different system. Eastern companies can be terribly reluctant to drop something even if there's a weight of evidence against the path they're on. Time will tell.
 
stickytape said:
I have the Canon M50 and use it with the 200mm L, 100-400 L and 17-50 2.8; In terms of the Dual Pixel AF, it is brilliant. No complaints at all, it is seriously fast and accurate. I think many willl confirm this as well, followers on the M series thread rate this, the M6 and M5 highly
Click to expand...

+1 ... my M5 works just fine with all my EF lenses including the Sigma 15-600mm sport (not a great combo to use mind you). I took the M5 with 100-400mm II attached to RIAT this year to give it a try out and it performed much better than I expected tbh.
 
Riz_Guru said:
They had no choice, it is the the future. While the others pushed mirrorless technology forwards, both Nikon and Canon focused on pushing mature DSLR bodies out with no real room for future advances. Yes DSLR's make them profits and they work but the market have now begun to shift and consumers wan't more, more features and possibly just something different / a change.

When Sony started making waves with their second generation of A7 bodies that things got interesting and this is when I believed both Nikon and Canon started to get worried.

It's good to see they have finally seen sense but its clear that they will have a up-hill battle to catch up to Sony.
Own goals like only having 1x XQD slot on their first mirrorless offerings is a massive negative, I can see why they did it but Nikon should have gone all out from the off and now save the better bodies / dual cards for their Z9 etc
Click to expand...

Looking at Nikon forums and FB pages I’m not sure you’re 100% correct. Mirrorless is the future, no really doubt but the general consensus I’m seeing is ‘my DSLR does everything I need, not buying the new mirrorless’. Ultimately, photography wise the final product is very similar or the same and that’s what some people are interested in. Some people want all the tech but I think that is the minority.

They do need to start with mirrorless now but I think the takeover is going to be slower than you expect.

That said, I prefer EVF and the focus assisting stuff for landscape of mirrorless - keep being tempted by A7rii’s in the classifieds.
 
Tom Green said:
Looking at Nikon forums and FB pages I’m not sure you’re 100% correct. Mirrorless is the future, no really doubt but the general consensus I’m seeing is ‘my DSLR does everything I need, not buying the new mirrorless’. Ultimately, photography wise the final product is very similar or the same and that’s what some people are interested in. Some people want all the tech but I think that is the minority.

They do need to start with mirrorless now but I think the takeover is going to be slower than you expect.

That said, I prefer EVF and the focus assisting stuff for landscape of mirrorless - keep being tempted by A7rii’s in the classifieds.
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This is most certainly true mirrorless doesn't offer any better picture quality, it's all about usability and new features. As yet, other than my already mentioned preference for lightness and liveview for travel, mirrorless offers me no advantage over DSLR for my regular shooting, both in terms of usability and features. Sure some prefer the live preview of the EVF, sure Sony boys like their eye AF and that's fine, but for me they don't offer me anything (I rarely do portraits I should add, but even when I do I don't struggle to get the eye in focus ;))
 
A vlogger's perspective

I like this guy, that dead pan style humour. Is he wrong?
 
Cagey75 said:
A vlogger's perspective

I like this guy, that dead pan style humour. Is he wrong?
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Hes basing his info on current Sony releases vs 2-3 yrs down the line Nikons, assuming Sonys going to do nothing. Nikon will only have 12 lenses by 2021 IF they dont pull any.
 
twist said:
Hes basing his info on current Sony releases vs 2-3 yrs down the line Nikons, assuming Sonys going to do nothing. Nikon will only have 12 lenses by 2021 IF they dont pull any.
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He also reckons Sony are still ahead atm, and as a vlogger he won't buy into either - because of no flip screen. This is the first thing vloggers look to now, and then 4K
 
twist said:
Vloggers, meh.
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Yeah I feel the same, but it's happening, they are having their say and being listened to. They have already changed what matters when it comes to new models. When do photographers ever need a front facing LCD? very rarely if ever. How many times do we make use of 4K? again, very rarely unless you're a vlogging photographer
 
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