Ah, excuse my mistake, the Nikon range isn't only FF.
I thought because we are in a FF thread talking about a FF camera I wouldn't talk about APSC.
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Nikon mirrorless definitely on the way
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I thought because we are in a FF thread talking about a FF camera I wouldn't talk about APSC.
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It's turned out that Nikon's mirrorless will be FF this time, but the future!
And shouldn't a company's Quality Control reputation cover their whole range! I'm not sure there have been many, if any, QC problems with D* and any of the DX cameras afaik. They don't mess up every time.
It's turned out that Nikon's mirrorless will be FF this time, but the future!
And shouldn't a company's Quality Control reputation cover their whole range! I'm not sure there have been many, if any, QC problems with D* and any of the DX cameras afaik. They don't mess up every time.
When the future comes and if its APSC I will be specific (again) and discuss APSC.
Fraser Euan White
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@snerkler - sorry to single you out mate but looking at your 'signature' I notice that you own a Nikon D850 & an Olympus, both with several lenses.
Most would consider the D850 as pretty much the pinnacle of DSLR design, what is the reason for owning the Olympus as well since these use completely different lenses?
Also, would you be looking at purchasing the new mirrorless camera and if so would you keep both the camera systems you currently have?
Last question (sorry!), what would be the reason for the purchase?
I completely understand where @Phil V is coming from and may be it is time for Nikon to take the brave move and concentrate on a new lens line rather than worry about backwards compatibility. For me, however I find the fact I can use my AIs lenses from my F3 on my D4 really useful, their are absolutely no compatibility issues whatsoever but I can't use the newer gelded series of lenses on my F3, but photography is purely a hobby for me.
Most would consider the D850 as pretty much the pinnacle of DSLR design, what is the reason for owning the Olympus as well since these use completely different lenses?
Also, would you be looking at purchasing the new mirrorless camera and if so would you keep both the camera systems you currently have?
Last question (sorry!), what would be the reason for the purchase?
I completely understand where @Phil V is coming from and may be it is time for Nikon to take the brave move and concentrate on a new lens line rather than worry about backwards compatibility. For me, however I find the fact I can use my AIs lenses from my F3 on my D4 really useful, their are absolutely no compatibility issues whatsoever but I can't use the newer gelded series of lenses on my F3, but photography is purely a hobby for me.
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I'm not sure I follow, are you saying Nikon lenses are not good enough? It wouldn't surprise me if Nikon phased out the old screw mount lenses, but the AF-S and AF-P lenses are more than good enough imo (not the the D lenses are shabby either)
Granted not all Nikon bodies can use screw drive lenses, which is why (as I've just said) I wouldn't be surprised if they phased out screw mount by not making them compatible with the z-mount.
And this is why (imo) Nikon have to get it right straight off the bat. Canon can probably bring out a half cocked mirrorless and sell to the masses based on loyalty and name, I don't think that Nikon have that luxury these days. Sony already have an established system with DSLR rivalling bodies. If Nikon don't bring out a body with the performance matching the latest Sony then 'newcomers' would probably gravitate towards Sony (or Canon). And this is another reason why I feel it's so important for Nikon to make a fully compatibly adapter (at least with AF-S and AF-P lenses). Sony have an established lens lineup and Nikon need to compete. At launch there will be very few z-mount lenses, so if you can use f-mount as well and have a mature lens lineup then it will help (imo) Nikon get some of the market. Whilst using an adapter isn't the ideal scenario I'm sure there'll be some newcomers that would be blind sighted by all the lenses that they can possibly use. Now I know Sony can use Canon glass, but will the average Joe know this? Nikon will most likely make a big song and dance about being able to use a lot of their old lenses, and so when average Joe goes into store they will probably be made aware of this. I do wonder how many stores etc actively push that you can use Canon glass with Sony? Anyway, hopefully you understand my point whether you agree with it or not?
Lol, don't worry about singing me out
Simple answer is that I want a lighter system for travel, and the odd day out. I would love a one system do it all, but there isn't that perfect system yet. Sony was almost it, but the ergonomics and slight EVF lag prevented it from being so. The new Nikon system could be it, BUT the Nikon body does appear that it could be quite large, which is obviously a pro and a con. I won't buy the new Nikon mirrorless in the near future unless it can replace both systems and finally give me that one system do it all. The newly announced Nikon 24-70mm f4 goes halfway to making it more feasible for travel (assuming it's no heavier than the Sony Zeiss 24-70mm f4), but it would also depend just how big and heavy the body is. Also, the new camera has an extremely tough job to match the performance of the D850, especially if the adapter takes away noticeable performance. IF I did at some point get a Nikon mirrorless I would ideally like native lenses, but the cost to swap everything from the outset would be far too high. When I looked into the Sony A7Riii if I sold ALL of my Nikon gear (including flashes etc) and ALL of my Olympus gear and get the equivalent Sony lenses to match my Nikon lenses (as close as possible) I would have have to find around £4k IIRC
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And many Nikon cameras exposure systems too
Using stop down metering on a modern camera is a joke, and is the reason I sent back my first AF SLR (20 years ago), which I bought because it was ‘compatible’ With all my K mount lenses
20years later and Nikon users are ‘hoping’ that their latest state of the art camera will work with all their old lenses
The Canon mount means that whatever FF mirrorless comes along, their EF lenses will ‘just work’ once they’ve been put at the right distance from the sensor, it’s a simple electrical connection. Any smaller sensor will be similarly compatible with EF and EF-S lenses.
The stop down metering issue really only effects lenses pre mid-70's. There's some lovely AI and AIS stuff that came after that that gives full regular metering capabilities on all but the lower end DSLR's. It's nice to have the option and something that most adapted lenses don't allow for full stop or if they do, the adaptor becomes pretty expensive. It's a perk at present though no doubt has caused Nikon many headaches along the way.
In adapting Z-mount to F-mount, I'm not 100% that Nikon will be that bothered about legacy stuff like screw driven lenses or manual focus stuff. I think the priority will be to offer near 'native' performance on the most recent AF-S lenses (last 15 years?), which present far fewer headaches. It's surely those lenses where people have big money invested, adapting other stuff will be more niche and I'm sure someone will eventually cater for those too.
Mirrorless cameras can meter any lenses afaik, so it's not going to be an issue even via dumb adapter, manual lenses use manual aperture ring, elec lenses will be aperture via body, only screw af that's the real ?
This is the way it works on all mirrorless adapted ime, why would Nikon be any different.
@woof woof could probably add more as he does adapted a lot.
This is the way it works on all mirrorless adapted ime, why would Nikon be any different.
@woof woof could probably add more as he does adapted a lot.
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So it's going to be a f1.2 lens?
I am not as excited now
You moan f1.4 lenses are big so you wouldn't have bought anyway.
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That's different...
If it was f0.95 that wasn't priced at something like £3K Id have considered it.
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Stop down metering on a new camera in 2018 is like asking me to accept a timing advance lever on my car.
Nikon really do need to draw a line in the sand so they can move forward without those ancient optics.
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You only quoted half my post. I said I expect them to do exactly that!
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Which is exactly what I’ve been saying all day
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So it's going to be a f1.2 lens?
I am not as excited now
That's a classic noct 1.2, shown in the video, so still every chance the rumoured f.095 could appear. Very specialist lens and will have a price tag to match!
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True. The teaser thing was cute when it started but now it's a bit boring. Think they should have done it no more than 2 weeks.
Anyway like you say we'll see what happens...
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Sony gives charger with their £3K bodies too. I'll be impressed if Nikon includes it with their £2K bodiesCharger! they are really going to show Sony how it's done.
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Rumours, of course, but interesting news about the adapter -
https://nikonrumors.com/2018/08/19/...shipping-starts-in-november.aspx/#more-124824
https://nikonrumors.com/2018/08/19/...shipping-starts-in-november.aspx/#more-124824
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The real problem with lens compatibility is that the lower end cameras have so many corners cut that they simply can't work properly with legacy lenses - it's mean and crappy and shows the company in a very poor light. D600 level stuff on works fine with legacy lenses, possibly the 7XXX series do too, so if they can reproduce that the user won't have such a poor experience. HOWEVER as I've been saying ever since owning my first Nikon camera, the actual mount design is lousy, and not fit for purpose alongside the Pentax K and Minolta A mounts - both designs that are >30 years old - let alone on a current new design.
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Sony gives charger with their £3K bodies too. I'll be impressed if Nikon includes it with their £2K bodies
Nikon give chargers with £300 bodies!
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Depends how you view it. I see it as Nikon make all bodies work with the current lens line up (which is plenty) which isn’t mean imo. As a bonus some people get to use old lenses too. I bet most consumers would not want to buy 30+ year old lenses and are more than happy the options that they have. It’s only us enthusiasts that consider using old lenses (generally speaking).
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I think - from posts I've seen here and other comments - that it's a source of frustration and wasted money, when people sometimes buy a lens expecting the legendary compatibility, only to find it won't work or is crippled. And it's not 30 year old lenses at all - no screw lens will AF on a consumer grade DSLR.
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Granted my 30+ year old comment was a bit OTT but as I said most consumers will not buy old lenses or expect to use them, and the consumer market is still the largest market. Besides, imo people should see it as a bonus that you can use legacy lenses on a large number of bodies rather than see it as a negative that they don’t work on some bodies. YMMV.
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The 50mm 1.8D lens still currently on sale and likely to be purchased by an entry level user (because it's cheaper than the 1.8G) won't AF.
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That may be true of Nikon DSLRs, but it's not a general truth. My old consumer grade Sony DSLRs are very happy to AF with my old film era (Minolta) screw driven lenses.
Fraser Euan White
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I'm not sure I follow, are you saying Nikon lenses are not good enough? It wouldn't surprise me if Nikon phased out the old screw mount lenses, but the AF-S and AF-P lenses are more than good enough imo (not the the D lenses are shabby either)
Granted not all Nikon bodies can use screw drive lenses, which is why (as I've just said) I wouldn't be surprised if they phased out screw mount by not making them compatible with the z-mount.
And this is why (imo) Nikon have to get it right straight off the bat. Canon can probably bring out a half cocked mirrorless and sell to the masses based on loyalty and name, I don't think that Nikon have that luxury these days. Sony already have an established system with DSLR rivalling bodies. If Nikon don't bring out a body with the performance matching the latest Sony then 'newcomers' would probably gravitate towards Sony (or Canon). And this is another reason why I feel it's so important for Nikon to make a fully compatibly adapter (at least with AF-S and AF-P lenses). Sony have an established lens lineup and Nikon need to compete. At launch there will be very few z-mount lenses, so if you can use f-mount as well and have a mature lens lineup then it will help (imo) Nikon get some of the market. Whilst using an adapter isn't the ideal scenario I'm sure there'll be some newcomers that would be blind sighted by all the lenses that they can possibly use. Now I know Sony can use Canon glass, but will the average Joe know this? Nikon will most likely make a big song and dance about being able to use a lot of their old lenses, and so when average Joe goes into store they will probably be made aware of this. I do wonder how many stores etc actively push that you can use Canon glass with Sony? Anyway, hopefully you understand my point whether you agree with it or not?
Lol, don't worry about singing me out
Simple answer is that I want a lighter system for travel, and the odd day out. I would love a one system do it all, but there isn't that perfect system yet. Sony was almost it, but the ergonomics and slight EVF lag prevented it from being so. The new Nikon system could be it, BUT the Nikon body does appear that it could be quite large, which is obviously a pro and a con. I won't buy the new Nikon mirrorless in the near future unless it can replace both systems and finally give me that one system do it all. The newly announced Nikon 24-70mm f4 goes halfway to making it more feasible for travel (assuming it's no heavier than the Sony Zeiss 24-70mm f4), but it would also depend just how big and heavy the body is. Also, the new camera has an extremely tough job to match the performance of the D850, especially if the adapter takes away noticeable performance. IF I did at some point get a Nikon mirrorless I would ideally like native lenses, but the cost to swap everything from the outset would be far too high. When I looked into the Sony A7Riii if I sold ALL of my Nikon gear (including flashes etc) and ALL of my Olympus gear and get the equivalent Sony lenses to match my Nikon lenses (as close as possible) I would have have to find around £4k IIRC
Thanks for taking time to reply. Was there any reason you went with the Olympus rather than a smaller DX bodied Nikon to go alongside your D850 where your lenses would have been compatible?
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It is a specific complaint about Nikon cameras and lenses.
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Honestly in terms of brand I do still feel Nikon have somewhat of an edge on Canon here when it comes to selling premium cameras to serious amateurs outside of the wildlife/sport market, arguably an even more key market for mirrorless than DSLRs.
The adapter will obviously help bring across existing users but again I tend to think with mirrorless even more so than with DSLR's(due more people buying it to save size and limiting to lenses than do that) you have a small number of vital core lenses. Canon I think exploited that at APSC and were able to overtake story relatively quickly even though there lens lineup is much less developed.
To me the potential weaknesses in Sony's lineup are that the 24-70mm F/4 isn't an amazing performer and at 35mm they only have the option of a relatively slow pancake F/2.8 lens or a very large and expensive F/1.4 lens. If the Nikon zoom performs better and the 35mm F/1.8 does that as well in a smaller package I suspect a good number of buyers could be tempted.
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Only ever had 2 or 3 lenses but will only have 1 soon!
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Comes down to size and weight again tbh, plus I find I use live view a lot on travels. To get a DX bodies with the features that I want, as well as weather sealing I'd probably be looking at something like the D7200, and then I'd have to buy another lens for travel as the 24-70mm f2.8 is heavy and not wide enough on the DX body. I tried Fuji but didn't like the rendering, and I've always been happy with Olympus. Add that I can take the 40-150mm f4-5.6 R (80-300mm eq) without even knowing I have it on me I then have a tele lens for the rare occasion that I might need it
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Currently only using the 70-200 for taking pics of the wife out and about at Horse shows. Not really have much spare time to use the camera other than that and not feeling it right now. I know its not a huge camera, but I just felt it was just in the way on holiday so considering a smaller mirrorless with a 35mm equiv to just take around with me.
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