Official Talk Leica thread

I’ll have to try this automation. Don’t think I’ve taken mine off manual yet! Sounds like it could be useful though ;)
 
wibbly said:
I’ll have to try this automation. Don’t think I’ve taken mine off manual yet! Sounds like it could be useful though ;)
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all roads lead to Rome, there’s no right or wrong path to the desired exposure, only the risk of getting lost! :)
 
wibbly said:
All for new ideas if it makes it easier, better than the way I’m doing it. :)
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people either understand the exposure triangle or they don’t

and i bet everyone in this thread and probably 99% of the whole forum do

once we get how the camera meters there’s no right or wrong way to use it, just what works best for you, look at the fujis, full stops only on the ss dial, but +/- 3 stops on the ev dial, fuji wants you to override the camera’s choices using the ev dial, they make that easy and it tells you what it’s set too in the display

the leica’s aren’t so fussed for you using the ev dial, you have to press info to see what it’s set too.

but it doesn’t matter, once we’ve run some frames through a camera we know roughly how it’ll behave in the situations we use it in and know when and how to override it.

for my little brain, i like to see the actual ss, when i see the number i can make a judgement whether to trust it or not... i could use the < 0 > light meter, but I prefer using the actual ss value to base my calculations on
 
Oh in other news...

this time tomorrow there’s a 90% chance that i’ll own an m240... (as well as an m9)

clucking GAS

#prayforadam
 
Adzman808 said:
people either understand the exposure triangle or they don’t

and i bet everyone in this thread and probably 99% of the whole forum do

once we get how the camera meters there’s no right or wrong way to use it, just what works best for you, look at the fujis, full stops only on the ss dial, but +/- 3 stops on the ev dial, fuji wants you to override the camera’s choices using the ev dial, they make that easy and it tells you what it’s set too in the display

the leica’s aren’t so fussed for you using the ev dial, you have to press info to see what it’s set too.

but it doesn’t matter, once we’ve run some frames through a camera we know roughly how it’ll behave in the situations we use it in and know when and how to override it.

for my little brain, i like to see the actual ss, when i see the number i can make a judgement whether to trust it or not... i could use the < 0 > light meter, but I prefer using the actual ss value to base my calculations on
Click to expand...

For sure, read about the exposure triangle often enough and for sure it works.

I do tend to rely on the <o> light meter most of the time and again, although I was always riding the EC button on the Fooj, I tend to use the shutter more on the M10 and rarely touch EC on the M10.

How strange that on different cameras one adopts different thoughts and processes.

Adzman808 said:
Oh in other news...

this time tomorrow there’s a 90% chance that i’ll own an m240... (as well as an m9)
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Very nice! I saw you’d had a nibble at one on here. Enjoy! I think if I buy another Leica Digital it would be a Monochrom, albeit I’m more like to go for an MP film camera at present if I do go for ‘another’ body.

At present I’m beginning to feel the bubbling GAS effect for a Summicron, trying to fight it but resistance is normally futile :LOL:
 
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wibbly said:
For sure, read about the exposure triangle often enough and for sure it works.

I do tend to rely on the <o> light meter most of the time and again, although I was always riding the EC button on the Fooj, I tend to use the shutter more on the M10 and rarely touch EC on the M10.

How strange that on different cameras one adopts different thoughts and processes.



Very nice! I saw you’d had a nibble at one on here. Enjoy! I think if I buy another Leica Digital it would be a Monochrom, albeit I’m more like to go for an MP film camera at present if I do go for ‘another’ body.

At present I’m beginning to feel the bubbling GAS effect for a Summicron, trying to fight it but resistance is normally futile :LOL:
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i think a lot of it is how the manufacturers make the camera, fooj (i like that) give us a nice big ev dial, so it’s easy to use that. Leica don’t so we dont!

re the 240... yeah it’s probably just m10 gas* but having not touched either of my X-Pros for ages (I picked up the xp1 the other day and the battery was so dead all the settings, time etc were lost! The xp2 and all the lenses I’ve lent to someone like 4 months ago and I get forgetting to ask for it back** so I started to convince myself that I did need a more modern camera, but it had to be another M as I’ve got 4*** lens for it and I like shooting the M.

The one on here I was all set for.. but I decided to pop into my local leica store and see if they had one I could play with so I could be sure, and they did, but it was a bit cheaper, and came with the EVF and I year warranty, so I figured that one was a better bet.

I flipped my 50cron to pay for the 50 ‘lux, a decision I’m not unhappy with (with an m9 every stop counts!), but I do feel that for some images the cron had a character that the ‘lux doesn’t quite match and other times the cron is a flaring POS and the lux just makes a lovely image, win some/lose some = always the way

*at least when the time comes flipping an m9p and an m240 will be more or less m10 money!
**note to self, get fuji xp2 back and sell it to pay for m240
***Immo doesnt think that’s a lot :D
 
[QUOTE="Adzman808,

The one on here I was all set for.. but I decided to pop into my local leica store and see if they had one I could play with so I could be sure, and they did, but it was a bit cheaper, and came with the EVF and I year warranty, so I figured that one was a better bet.

[/QUOTE]

Wish I had a local Leica Store.......... :(
 
Topsy said:
[QUOTE="Adzman808,

The one on here I was all set for.. but I decided to pop into my local leica store and see if they had one I could play with so I could be sure, and they did, but it was a bit cheaper, and came with the EVF and I year warranty, so I figured that one was a better bet.
Click to expand...

Wish I had a local Leica Store.......... :([/QUOTE]

you don’t, it’s like the La Brea tar pits
 
Hi, the last Christmas tree pic till December. Many neighbours discarded their trees already. We keep ours a little longer. ...

My Leica lens portfolio: I started with the 35 Summicron and the 90 Elmarit for the M6 in 1988, and after I went mirrorless, more lenses somehow found their way to me.

Some I simply bought out of curiosity. Isn't there a saying curiosity killed the cash ? ( :LOL: )

(Leica M9 - ZEISS Sonnar 1,5/50 f 1,5) :


L1020914_DxO-z50s-15-tp.jpg
 
Adzman808 said:
Oh in other news...

this time tomorrow there’s a 90% chance that i’ll own an m240... (as well as an m9)

clucking GAS

#prayforadam
Click to expand...

The deed is done :)

I was going to show you some snaps, but apparently 780kb is too big for the forum and I can't be @rsed to get my round that right now

RE the IQ it's appreciably better than I thought it would be (I'm firmly in the CCD M9 pics look fab, CMOS 240 pics don't camp), requiring more WB adjustment than the M9, but that's no biggie

RE the camera itself, it makes the M9 feel very old, slow and clunky*, the 240 feels better built, has a MUCH nicer shutter feel and using the EVF thing I was even able to use the 90

Right... let's get the honeymoon period out of the way :D

*not in EVF/live view mode it doesn't - it feels older than the M9 when used like this!
 
Adzman808 said:
The deed is done :)

I was going to show you some snaps, but apparently 780kb is too big for the forum and I can't be @rsed to get my round that right now

RE the IQ it's appreciably better than I thought it would be (I'm firmly in the CCD M9 pics look fab, CMOS 240 pics don't camp), requiring more WB adjustment than the M9, but that's no biggie

RE the camera itself, it makes the M9 feel very old, slow and clunky*, the 240 feels better built, has a MUCH nicer shutter feel and using the EVF thing I was even able to use the 90

Right... let's get the honeymoon period out of the way :D

*not in EVF/live view mode it doesn't - it feels older than the M9 when used like this!
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Enjoy Adam, sounds like a great investment :cool:
 
wibbly said:
sounds like a great investment :cool:
Click to expand...

thank you.

i doubt that... but at least someone else has taken the big from new hit (it was actually a lot cheaper than my m9p! But the 240 seems to be a buyers market!)
 
Adzman808 said:
The deed is done :)

I was going to show you some snaps, but apparently 780kb is too big for the forum and I can't be @rsed to get my round that right now

RE the IQ it's appreciably better than I thought it would be (I'm firmly in the CCD M9 pics look fab, CMOS 240 pics don't camp), requiring more WB adjustment than the M9, but that's no biggie

RE the camera itself, it makes the M9 feel very old, slow and clunky*, the 240 feels better built, has a MUCH nicer shutter feel and using the EVF thing I was even able to use the 90

Right... let's get the honeymoon period out of the way :D

*not in EVF/live view mode it doesn't - it feels older than the M9 when used like this!
Click to expand...

Good luck!!! I am very curious to find how you like the M 240 ... ---
 
justpix said:
Thank you! (y)

An M journey - or rather a round-trip - here :

https://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2014...e-leica-m240and-back-to-the-m9-by-ashwin-rao/
Click to expand...

i’ve seen that before!

i’ve been in that boat with the fujis, had the x-pro1 loved the IQ, got the x-pro2 because it was a far more polished product, didn’t like the pictures as much

i think the pitfall of selling a camera, then nostalgically comparing it to your new camera is that the memory plays tricks, after a while we end up thinking that the old departed camera never ever made a bad picture and also we fall into the trap of trying to edit our new camera files the same way we edited the old camera ones, which is a mistake as we should wipe our minds and find our best path with the new camera

I have no current intention to sell my m9.. we’ll see how I gel with the 240 over time. I’ll probably end up wasting a great deal of time comparing my 9 and 240 with the same lenses attached because I won’t be able to help myself :D

I‘ve always liked sample files of the m9 more than the 240, but that doesn’t mean the 240 can’t make a nice image.

I got a bit of a ‘package deal’ on my 240 from the store, if I’d taken it as offered stand alone it actually costs less than the x-pro3 does new (which is an awkward new and old comparison I grant you)

I’m not a very well off person.. because I bought my 2012 year m9 in 2017 and my 2014 year 240 in 2020 it means I’m able to enjoy leica at a cost comparable to what many spend owning a current model mainstream camera. (Or a lot lot less if you bought a Sony A9!!)

The other advantage is that as I come into these things 5+ years late, there’s been FW updates and many clever folk have figured out colour profiles and LR settings etc and shared them on the internet, so there’s more support available from the community for the new user

I’ve only had it a day but so far two strange things..

LR won’t detect the 35mm summarit, i was blaming the camera but the lens info is in the exif on the dng, so the camera is providing its part, but LR doesn’t see it... (yet LR recognises the 90 and 50 fine)

i look a photo of the mural in sao bento with an nd filter and it came out black and white looking! I made a wb adjustment in lr and the mural went back to blue, but that’s a bit strange.
 
Hi, I did not post the link to spoil your fun, Adam. :) Your purchase made me think, so I came across it on the web again.

I think it is wise to keep the M9, because it was a milestone for Leica, and it (still) makes good pictures in most conditions.

I never sell equipment. (I gave some Nikon gear to my wife, because she has a few Nikons, some modified for Astro-photography).

Never selling means that ultimately space limitations limit buying. And if the new purchase was no real progress, you can always see it.

This year, I shall celebrate the 10 year anniversary of my M9 acquisition. I bought it new, then, but got a small cash payment discount.

I bought several SONYs over the years, so I have 9 now. Originally, I wanted to go from the NEXen to Fuji when they brought out their first APS-C ILC,
but the sensor then seemed to work not well with Leica M mount lenses.

Presently, I am quite happy with my Leica, Nikon and Sony equipment and do not plan any purchases.

But, we all have our weak moments ... --- ;)
 
i didn’t think you were trying to rain on my parade Immo, but apologies if I sounded overly defensive.

I wanted the m9 for a long while before it came to fruition, and when I was able to get one I paid ‘top dollar’ for the nicest example I could find.

I’ve no plans to let that go.

GAS wise I quit buying new gear many years ago, this generally means that when I want a new (secondhand) item, I can usually fund it by letting something incumbent go, adding a nominal amount of money and getting the ‘new’ thing

I’ve always been a bit intrigued about the m240... before it was even released some folks said it was dire... when it arrived all but the shilling sites (and Ming Thein, who seems to know his stuff) said it was dire... some guy even started a petition for Leica to return to CCD! The forums were full of complaints, and “I went back to my m9” stories. Eventually the M10 arrived and many review and shilling sites that were initially quite warm to the 240 suddenly back tracked calling it dire.

But I’ve always quite had a thing for underdog cameras (the x-pro1 was originally viewed as dire too!)

So I’m quite excited to begin this journey with my second ever Leica, and if it’s really not possible to make photos I like with the 240 then such is life and I can always return to the m9.

It’s a buyers market for the 240 at the moment, most of the m10s seem to fly off the shelf, but nearly every outlet has a selection of 240s.

Colours and WB “issues” aside, the 240 is actually very close to the m10 in dynamic range but about half the (used) price

1CBFC953-91D9-44FB-8960-D3734F877792.jpeg

justpix said:
Hi, I did not post the link to spoil your fun, Adam. :) Your purchase made me think, so I came across it on the web again.

I think it is wise to keep the M9, because it was a milestone for Leica, and it (still) makes good pictures in most conditions.

I never sell equipment. (I gave some Nikon gear to my wife, because she has a few Nikons, some modified for Astro-photography).

Never selling means that ultimately space limitations limit buying. And if the new purchase was no real progress, you can always see it.

This year, I shall celebrate the 10 year anniversary of my M9 acquisition. I bought it new, then, but got a small cash payment discount.

I bought several SONYs over the years, so I have 9 now. Originally, I wanted to go from the NEXen to Fuji when they brought out their first APS-C ILC,
but the sensor then seemed to work not well with Leica M mount lenses.

Presently, I am quite happy with my Leica, Nikon and Sony equipment and do not plan any purchases.

But, we all have our weak moments ... --- ;)
Click to expand...
 
I don’t think any M camera is bad, I think there’s a lot of Leicaphiles out there that are never happy with what Leica do when they release a new model.

Obviously technology moves on but Leica appear to stick pretty closely to their core ideas and have an idea of evolution than revolution.

I’m pretty sure I’d have been pretty happy with any of the Leica digital M models but have to say when I look hard the M10-P really does deliver.

Just need to decide if I really need that Summicron now.
 
Heh - I had a few with the exposure completely wrong, using the classic setting. Did the take a pic.. check.. oh too bright, whats the speed? hmm ok I'll set the speed manually and re take ... ;) only problem is if you forget to reset it back to A afterwards... and wonder why the shutter is so slow in bright light....

As to macro, I'm still using the nikon 105mm macro and novoflex adapter. Live view or evf. I do find it needs more light though and havent found a solution I like yet.

Leica typ 240 mp + 50mm f1.1 7Artisans
Amsterdam light festival
 
I'm glad you like the m240 adam :) I only find I would like a little more iso range... and the m10 has that. But at 7keuros... not going to get one...
I'd recommend an evf but they arent cheap either. Useful for top down or normal shots, with the peek button on the front, and 'are you shooting level' option on the display is quite nice :D
 
Oh and in lr - there is a healing option (top right). I found if you click the check box underneath it goes black and white, with dust spots being big visible circles waiting to be healed. Makes it a lot faster to find and fix them... for when the inevitable dust on the sensor happens
 
ecniv said:
I'm glad you like the m240 adam :) I only find I would like a little more iso range... and the m10 has that. But at 7keuros... not going to get one...
I'd recommend an evf but they arent cheap either. Useful for top down or normal shots, with the peek button on the front, and 'are you shooting level' option on the display is quite nice :D
Click to expand...

Thank you very much!

So far after the m9 the iso seems great! I read a lot of people online complaining about the iso after 3200, but in the menu the iso values listed higher than 3200 are all labelled “push” so I think it’s only fair the quality nose dives at these values

As imaging software gets better, older cameras will be more usable at their higher iso values (this already happened in LR with the m9)

The colours of the m10 look nicer (than the 240) to me, but the m10 is so much more money!

I got the Leica evf2 as part of the package I paid for, the black out between shots is horrendous, but I can see it coming in handy and it’s good to use with the 90mm

Sometimes the 240 has a bit too much going in... on the m9 image review has 2 modes, the full image and one with the image, the info and the histogram, so one press of ‘info’ takes you between each screen. The 240 splits these onto 3 separate screens and you have to press info 3 times to cycle back to the image only view! It’s like the fujis!

ecniv said:
Oh and in lr - there is a healing option (top right). I found if you click the check box underneath it goes black and white, with dust spots being big visible circles waiting to be healed. Makes it a lot faster to find and fix them... for when the inevitable dust on the sensor happens
Click to expand...

I didn’t know that, thank you. The 240 lets you make a dust ref photo in the camera, the store showed me this, then immediately went to clean all the dust off the sensor for me! But I’m sure it won’t take long to get more dust in there

It’s only been some days, but so far I’m very happy with it.

LR is being weird with the 35mm - it won’t auto detect the profile for it (yet manages it on the m9), at first I blamed the camera.. but the camera knows which lens is attached (it’s in the info screen and the lens data is in the dng exif) so it’s a LR problem. Not the end of the world... but a bit annoying
 
I'm not so sure I really want to touch the whole festering boil that's M240 vs M9 image quality

but if I purposefully underexpose a little in camera and set a custom WB I'm not sure they're a million miles apart

M1004168.LR-2.jpg

The other thing said of course is that "people come out with tomato faces and it can't be fixed"

M1004007.LR-2.jpg

Again, I'm not convinced, although that took more PP that it might have done with the m9 (although it's iso 1250 so gawd knows how it would have come out on the m9!!)

this is iso 3200 (max until you reach the push values)

M1003974.LR.jpg

there's zero NR applied to this (and a rather optimistic 40/0.7/65/20 sharpening setting as I applied that to a bunch of base iso images and this one slipped though!!) and no edits except a custom WB, because indoor yellow lighting..

I don't present these images as proof of anything or even anything other than snaps just to test my new cam in different scenarios... but so far I'm not seeing anything that makes me think 'uh-oh.. what have I bought...'

Which is a good thing :)
 
and finally...

because I'm getting bored, so lord knows how you all feel!

Here's a selection of throw away crap, that is straight as imported into LR (my import setting is basically more sharpening, zero NR, the adobe lens profile and the embedded camera profile) with zero additional edits (no WB, shadow recovery etc)

M1004064.LR.jpg


M1004093.LR.jpg


M1004156.LR.jpg

Sure if these were in any way keepers we'd edit them!

But this is what I'm getting straight out of the box, and it's really not a million miles off the m9 in feel and vibe (even if not the exact colour profile and tone curve)

In case it's of interest.. I'm liking more the embedded profile and I tend to run it -0.3 EV in bright light

Oh and to the other M9 owners...

The M240 has 2meter framelines! Fk man the 35 ones look like a 28 in there!!!!
 
wibbly said:
Looking good Adam, I like the technical side you offer. Looks as if you made a good choice.
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thank you very much Dave, I guess all those years mucking about with the fujis weren’t completely wasted!
 
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