Over 70's to be asked to self-isolate - how will you pursue your hobby?

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Glenn
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The virus seems to be under control: we haven't seen the explosion predicted.
I wouldn't read too much into that. The health authorities aren't testing in many areas (even for some people with symptoms), so we wouldn't necessarily know yet if the 'explosion' had happened. Incubation may be up to 10 days. There are more 'actual' cases than there are 'confirmed' cases, and all the models suggest that the rate of spread is currently increasing.
 
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I wouldn't read too much into that. The health authorities aren't testing in many areas (even for some people with symptoms), so we wouldn't necessarily know yet if the 'explosion' had happened. Incubation may be up to 10 days. There are more 'actual' cases than there are 'confirmed' cases, and all the models suggest that the rate of spread is currently increasing.
Can you please clarify this bit of information as in unless a test confirms a specific set of symptoms is the illness Covid 19 how do we know that it is Covid 19 ???
 
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Can you please clarify this bit of information as in unless a test confirms a specific set of symptoms is the illness Covid 19 how do we know that it is Covid 19 ???
There was a rather nasty cough with flue-like symptoms going round here last October/November, and a neighbour had that in January too. It seemed to take people between 2 and 4 weeks to shake it off. Now, if that's still doing the rounds then I'm sure a lot of people will mistake those symptoms for Covid 19.
 
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Glenn
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Can you please clarify this bit of information as in unless a test confirms a specific set of symptoms is the illness Covid 19 how do we know that it is Covid 19 ???
The number of confirmed cases always 'lags' the actual number of people who are carrying the virus. Partly because symptoms take some time to show (if you get them at all) and partly because not everyone who has the virus has been tested. So it's a safe bet to say more people have it than are 'confirmed' as having it. Add to that the issue that some 'symptomatic' people are suspected to have it, but haven't been tested, and we're in a situation where we won't know how many people have it today, until some point in the future (and even then there will be some modelling involved).
 
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Steve
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Just seen this response. I've just mentioned the Nolan phone-in. last night a man phoned in and was allowed to stay on for quite a while and he related how most of his family were victims of Nazi death camps (I think it was his father who was face to face with Joseph Mengeles..the notorious doctor) and he likened this missive re the over 70's to being ordered to stay at home. I'd actually thought about this. last week..ie .what he went on to say..myself. That is was stigmatising this group ..ie the over 70's and the point he made was the same except he likened it to his family having to wear the yellow Star of David so others could identify them as Jews. I heard talk of the army being brought in to help police the ban and he said he would deliberately go out and await arrest. Nolan said he thought it was the most emotive call he'd ever taken.The man also emphasised how he'd completely lost any trust in humanity.

This morning Grant Shapps was stating that it's advice, a strong recommendation, there'll be no law-enforcement involved. I think he may hase added that it was not directed at haelthy over 70's but those with underlying health issues. I do wonder if that call had influenced that response.
I could see how someone who's family had suffered persecution and were victims of the Shoah, could feel that way, but why would anyone else think that asking over 70s to self isolate is akin to wearing yellow stars under the Nazi regime?
 
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The number of confirmed cases always 'lags' the actual number of people who are carrying the virus. Partly because symptoms take some time to show (if you get them at all) and partly because not everyone who has the virus has been tested. So it's a safe bet to say more people have it than are 'confirmed' as having it. Add to that the issue that some 'symptomatic' people are suspected to have it, but haven't been tested, and we're in a situation where we won't know how many people have it today, until some point in the future (and even then there will be some modelling involved).
And, since most cases (~80%) are 'mild', and the UK is no longer even attempting to test these unless they progress to severe or critical illness, the count will from now on only represent the worst, hospitalised cases.
 

badlywornroy

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Roy
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Which makes the whole thing an almost pointless exercise (excuse the pun).
I sort of disagree gramps. I suppose if your walking in congested areas rubbing shoulders with folk it is pointless. Surely is is possible to walk and give other folk 'decent space' ?
I'm betting they would also appreciate that. Failing that, drive your car to somewhere quiet and relatively unpopulated and enjoy a walk. :giggle:
 
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I sort of disagree gramps. I suppose if your walking in congested areas rubbing shoulders with folk it is pointless. Surely is is possible to walk and give another folk 'decent space' ?
I'm betting they would also appreciate that. Failing that, drive your car to somewhere quiet and relatively unpopulated and enjoy a walk. :giggle:
Ideally yes Roy but not everything is in your control and people do things by habit that they don't even consider but which could be all that's needed. Everyone wandering around thinking "I'm okay" is not an effective way of eliminating transmission of the virus, which one microbiologist called 100x more contag infectious than Ebola.
 
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I sort of disagree gramps. I suppose if your walking in congested areas rubbing shoulders with folk it is pointless. Surely is is possible to walk and give another folk 'decent space' ?
I'm betting they would also appreciate that. Failing that, drive your car to somewhere quiet and relatively unpopulated and enjoy a walk. :giggle:
Yes that’s what I’m planning to do though I’m not over 70
Where I go out bug hunting I often don’t see anyone all day
 
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Jason
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Luckily where I live within 5 minutes walk I can be out and not see a soul for hours. Nowhere near 70 but that's mostly what I shall be doing.
 
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I could see how someone who's family had suffered persecution and were victims of the Shoah, could feel that way, but why would anyone else think that asking over 70s to self isolate is akin to wearing yellow stars under the Nazi regime?

I don't think they would. Not sure why you've asked that. I'll hazard a guess that it might be my suggestion that it influenced Grant Shapp's statement.. No mention of enforcing self-isolation which as I understand was originally being mooted. That's why the issue was raised on the Nolan phone-in. It wouldn't be the Nazi issue but the identifying of the over 70's being seen as a problem (healthy or not) inasmuch as they are more likely to get the virus and if they're out more likely to spread it. People are irrational. I've heard a report on the radio that Chinese people are being racially abused in the streets because the virus originated in China. The leader of a Chinese organisatioin in Southampton said it's the worst he's seen in 24 years. Brexit brought grief to foreigners...especially East Europeans..Poles of all people.. Hindus have suffered for issues involving muslims and so on.

Re the Chinese here. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ted-racist-abuse-over-coronavirus-southampton

Bottom line is..as already mentioned a couple of times in this forum, that HMG has done a very poor job re communications and that's how we've come to this issue.

By the way. I noted you used the Hebrew term Shoah rather Holocaust. I've looked into that and it's an interesting distinction. Human rather than God-focused. Having read what the difference is I'm inclined to believe that Shoah is more apt . However, in reality, most people would use the term Holocaust. I'd go as far as saying that most people wouldn't know what Shoah meant, including myself until now. Learn something every day, as they say.
 
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Andrew
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I could see how someone who's family had suffered persecution and were victims of the Shoah, could feel that way, but why would anyone else think that asking over 70s to self isolate is akin to wearing yellow stars under the Nazi regime?
Because the media will always find an angle - valid or invalid - an edge case to undermine a policy or an expert with a contrarian opinion.

Now a free press is a Good Thing - but sometimes it seems to just get off on stirring things up to make story.
 
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This has been the considered opinion of almost all of the 'experts' I have heard.
I don't have any issue with figures being mentioned....provided they are properly contextualised i.e. those tested & those infected(=facts), forecasts number of increase....and considered opinion. All are valid in their own rights.

There was a rather nasty cough with flue-like symptoms going round here last October/November, and a neighbour had that in January too. It seemed to take people between 2 and 4 weeks to shake it off. Now, if that's still doing the rounds then I'm sure a lot of people will mistake those symptoms for Corvid 19.
For some years I have always had a winter cough.............a dry upper respiratory tract inflammation..............and it started again approx 10 days ago and so far has followed the historical pattern i.e. a damned irritating intermittent (not a continuous hacking unproductive dry cough as seems to be what Covid 19 presents as?) cough and if anything like a typical year for me it could persist for another month or more! Oh, and no fever/high temp.................I am my usual slightly hypothermic temperature ;)

The number of confirmed cases always 'lags' the actual number of people who are carrying the virus. Partly because symptoms take some time to show (if you get them at all) and partly because not everyone who has the virus has been tested. So it's a safe bet to say more people have it than are 'confirmed' as having it. Add to that the issue that some 'symptomatic' people are suspected to have it, but haven't been tested, and we're in a situation where we won't know how many people have it today, until some point in the future (and even then there will be some modelling involved).
I have no doubt that the actual number(s) are higher then the known tested figures but when (as mentioned above) a figure is an actual measured number, we should not talk about it like it is a factual figure :banghead:
 
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Whole new scenario confirmed by PM this afternoon.
Yes, I listened to that and when pressed(?) he did say that there are and will not be any sanctions (rightly so) against those that cannot remain isolated......................so that covers the question of the need to go to the shops when/if required or not as the case may be depending personal circumstances or 'local support' availablity ???
 
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Steve
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I don't think they would. Not sure why you've asked that. I'll hazard a guess that it might be my suggestion that it influenced Grant Shapp's statement.. No mention of enforcing self-isolation which as I understand was originally being mooted. That's why the issue was raised on the Nolan phone-in. It wouldn't be the Nazi issue but the identifying of the over 70's being seen as a problem (healthy or not) inasmuch as they are more likely to get the virus and if they're out more likely to spread it. People are irrational. I've heard a report on the radio that Chinese people are being racially abused in the streets because the virus originated in China. The leader of a Chinese organisatioin in Southampton said it's the worst he's seen in 24 years. Brexit brought grief to foreigners...especially East Europeans..Poles of all people.. Hindus have suffered for issues involving muslims and so on.

Re the Chinese here. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ted-racist-abuse-over-coronavirus-southampton

Bottom line is..as already mentioned a couple of times in this forum, that HMG has done a very poor job re communications and that's how we've come to this issue.

By the way. I noted you used the Hebrew term Shoah rather Holocaust. I've looked into that and it's an interesting distinction. Human rather than God-focused. Having read what the difference is I'm inclined to believe that Shoah is more apt . However, in reality, most people would use the term Holocaust. I'd go as far as saying that most people wouldn't know what Shoah meant, including myself until now. Learn something every day, as they say.
Its hard to say exactly what was mooted because the BBC article initially wrote 'told to stay at home. ' then in the next paragraph its 'asked to stay at home...' so make of that what you will.

Regarding Shoah, I've sort of got used to using it because of the number of holocaust denying videos I see, and the company I work for uses that phrase. I also agree its a more apt term than holocaust
 
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Yes, I listened to that and when pressed(?) he did say that there are and will not be any sanctions (rightly so) against those that cannot remain isolated......................so that covers the question of the need to go to the shops when/if required or not as the case may be depending personal circumstances or 'local support' availablity ???
I'd imagine there won't be any sanctions because there isn't the resource to impose them.
 
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Because the media will always find an angle - valid or invalid - an edge case to undermine a policy or an expert with a contrarian opinion.

Now a free press is a Good Thing - but sometimes it seems to just get off on stirring things up to make story.
It's not just the media.

Politicians do it all the time.
 
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The number of confirmed cases always 'lags' the actual number of people who are carrying the virus. Partly because symptoms take some time to show (if you get them at all) and partly because not everyone who has the virus has been tested. So it's a safe bet to say more people have it than are 'confirmed' as having it. Add to that the issue that some 'symptomatic' people are suspected to have it, but haven't been tested, and we're in a situation where we won't know how many people have it today, until some point in the future (and even then there will be some modelling involved).
Based on the way it took off in China and Italy, the number of infected people is probably around ten times the number of identified cases at this stage of its spread within the population - most of them show up a week or so later
 
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Saw a news flash from the WHO this afternoon , stating that cured people are still infectious two weeks after being released from hospital ..
on the Jeremy vine show on R2 today a caller from Spain said there was virtually 100% compliance with the stay indoors rule ,,while J.V said it wouldn’t work here as we brits don’t like being told what to do ,and I think he is bang on the nail ..

as for the over 70’s rule yes it affects me but these days a lot of my stuff is done from my mobile mondeo hide so hopefully I can continue with that .

The main obstacles that haven’t been thought out though is , mature children still at home , cars need a m.o.t etc,also a lot of o.a.p’s are dog owners those dogs need walking daily . Plus a lot of o.a.p’s live in high rise flats . It needs to be thought out better I think
 
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Its hard to say exactly what was mooted because the BBC article initially wrote 'told to stay at home. ' then in the next paragraph its 'asked to stay at home...' so make of that what you will.

Regarding Shoah, I've sort of got used to using it because of the number of holocaust denying videos I see, and the company I work for uses that phrase. I also agree its a more apt term than holocaust
If I've misunderstood the situation then please let me know? From what I understand, the idea was for the over 70s to self isolate for their own safety. I don't think anyone has sought to stigmatise that age group for one moment. It's because, generally speaking, as you get older your immune system doesn't work as well. Add to that any underlying health issues, and it makes very good sense to take extra care of yourself if you're in a vulnerable age/health group.

I don't think anyone responsible for issuing health advice in the UK is seeking to exclude and marginalise (let alone victimise!) the over 70s. After all, they are our much-loved and respected parents, uncles, grandparents, etc. It's because we love and value them that we want to keep them as safe as possible. So I simply can't understand why anyone would take offence at the idea of issuing advice to protect those we love to the best of our ability and knowledge.
 
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Saw a news flash from the WHO this afternoon , stating that cured people are still infectious two weeks after being released from hospital ..
on the Jeremy vine show on R2 today a caller from Spain said there was virtually 100% compliance with the stay indoors rule ,,while J.V said it wouldn’t work here as we brits don’t like being told what to do ,and I think he is bang on the nail ..

as for the over 70’s rule yes it affects me but these days a lot of my stuff is done from my mobile mondeo hide so hopefully I can continue with that .

The main obstacles that haven’t been thought out though is , mature children still at home , cars need a m.o.t etc,also a lot of o.a.p’s are dog owners those dogs need walking daily . Plus a lot of o.a.p’s live in high rise flats . It needs to be thought out better I think
I doubt he'll be worrying about cars needing Mot's.
 
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Imposed isolation, so I guess I starve to death after the food we have runs out, if I don't succumb to dysentery due to the national loo roll shortage, still it'll reduce the drain on the state pension.:mad:
How the heck do you get dysentery from running out of loo roll? There's also currently no suggestion I'm aware of that says you can't go out to shop for food. So what are you on about? So much for the Dunkirk spirit, eh?
 

simon ess

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Imposed isolation, so I guess I starve to death after the food we have runs out, if I don't succumb to dysentery due to the national loo roll shortage, still it'll reduce the drain on the state pension.:mad:
I really hope that post is humourous.

It's hard to tell on a forum sometimes.
 

Gremlin

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Just went out to bring in the trailcam and in my letter box was a printed form from someone I have never heard
offering to help with shopping etc.
Many of my neighbours are in the 80/90s and although this lady is probably ok it does leave them open to being scammed.
I believe the basic form was from facebook, so not exactly unavailable to less then honest people
 
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Just went out to bring in the trailcam and in my letter box was a printed from someone I have never heard
offering to help with shopping etc.
Many of my neighbours are in the 80/90s and although this lady is probably ok it does leave them open to being scammed.
I believe the basic form was from facebook, so not exactly unavailable to less then honest people
Yeah most will not be doing it out of goodness of heart but a chance to make a few bob on the side .
 

wack61

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How the heck do you get dysentery from running out of loo roll? There's also currently no suggestion I'm aware of that says you can't go out to shop for food. So what are you on about? So much for the Dunkirk spirit, eh?

If people start running out of toilet paper to flush baby wipes and kitchen roll will quickly overwhelm the drainage system which might lead to problems , in Costco last week there wasn't a single paper product in the whole shop
 

wack61

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I'd imagine there won't be any sanctions because there isn't the resource to impose them.
Maybe, maybe not, from noon today in France

https://www.gouvernement.fr/info-co...yRw5XxL6845iAbnL300-e729GlbT8DpDXgogleILstuS8

Translated

All the answers to your questions about the COVID-19 Coronavirus:

On March 16, 2020, the President of the Republic decided to take measures to minimize contact and travel. A containment system is in place throughout the territory from Tuesday, March 17 at 12:00 p.m., for a minimum of fifteen days. Travel is prohibited except in the following cases and only if you have a certificate for:

Move from home to work when telework is not possible;
Make essential purchases in authorized local shops;
Go to a health professional;
Travel for childcare or to help vulnerable people with the strict condition of respecting barrier gestures;
Exercise only on an individual basis, around the home and without any gathering.

The certificate necessary to circulate will be available on this page this Tuesday, March 17.

Violations of these rules will be punished with a fine ranging from 38 to 135 euros.
 
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Imposed isolation, so I guess I starve to death after the food we have runs out, if I don't succumb to dysentery due to the national loo roll shortage, still it'll reduce the drain on the state pension.:mad:
For those that responded, yes it was sarcastic. Keep calm and carry on, and yes I was born in the war, I remember rationing etc. just use common sense ( a very rare commodity these days it seems)
 
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