"Panasonic G series" Owners Thread

[woof woof]

What is it? Excuse my ignorance but although I've heard about it, I've not really paid much attention.

What's shutter shock?

At certain shutter speeds and with certain body and lens combinations you get camera/lens induced motion blur. What this means in real world shooting is you get slightly blurry results which if you look closely display the blurring or a slight double image. I've found that when viewing a whole image it can be difficult to see what's going on beyond the shot looking unsharp and generally naff but on close viewing it's easy to see what's going on.

This guy posted some good examples...

http://www.cavecom.com/screwdriver/forum/showthread.php?t=21372

I was using a G1 and never came across this issue. I then bought a GX7 and used it mostly with primes and again I never saw the issue. I then bought a G7 which came with a 14-42mm lens and I mounted the lens on my GX7 and used it on a day out and when I viewed the pictures I was disappointed but I put it down to the lens being a cheap and nasty piece of tat but when I used it on my G1 I found that it was in fact quite a good lens so I looked into what was going on and found that both my GX7 and G7 were badly affected by shutter shock between shutter speeds of something lower than 1/100 to something under 1/300. The work around is to not use these shutter speeds or to use the electronic shutter and the electronic shutter does cure the shutter shock issue but unfortunately can create issues when shooting fast moving subjects or when shooting under flickering lighting. I don't tend to shoot fast moving subjects but the flickering lighting issue is a problem for me and IMO the affected camera and lens combinations are effectively unusable in some conditions, such as under flickering lighting.

The whole fiasco is IMO a disgrace and I do have a problem understanding how and why a company the size of Panasonic is selling kit so affected by this problem. To pair a shutter shock affected body and lens together as a kit is IMO a brain dead decision for which Panasonic should be abused so I'll do so now...

Panasonic... You're a bunch of !@**%$£!.

 

[Swissy]

I've been keen to move over completely to mirrorless for a while now, I had decided it was going to be Panasonic but your bad experience has held me back woof woof think I may go with plan b Fuji

Funny thing is I have no problems with my older gf1 and gh1

 

[woof woof]

I've been keen to move over completely to mirrorless for a while now, I had decided it was going to be Panasonic but your bad experience has held me back woof woof think I may go with plan b Fuji

Funny thing is I have no problems with my older gf1 and gh1

Unfortunately Panasonic aren't the only ones out there selling what I consider to be kit unfit to sell because of this issue. I've seen reports of Olympus, Sony and Nikon too and if I was interested in Fuji I'd Google for issues before buying. I wouldn't buy a Fuji but don't let me put you off Fuji or even Panasonic, please use the information that's out there to make an informed decision.

 

[Swissy]

I always research before buying mate this move of mine over to mirrorless has been ongoing for a few months due to research lol

 

[pete 1]

Had no problems with my GX8 or em1 so that's why I've not really looked into what the fuss is about [emoji53]

 

[woof woof]

I always research before buying mate this move of mine over to mirrorless has been ongoing for a few months due to research lol

Great Stuff

With the lack of bricks and mortar camera shops I often buy on line without having handled or even seen the kit in the plastic and metal but since being stung (twice) by Panasonic I won't be buying blind again until the kit has been out for a while and the Geeks have had a chance to test it.

I spotted that something was wrong with my GX7 and 14-42mm combination the first time I took it out of the house and used it so for me it's impossible to believe that Panasonic wasn't / isn't aware of the issue. Shame on them.

Funny thing is I have no problems with my older gf1 and gh1

My G1 seems unaffected.

 

[woof woof]

Had no problems with my GX8 or em1 so that's why I've not really looked into what the fuss is about [emoji53]

Then it's just down to luck, camera and lens combinations or maybe just very good light and fast shutter speeds If you use an affected body and lens combination with the mechanical shutter at an affected shutter speed it's only a matter of time before you see the problem.

My G7 gives good image quality with my 12-35mm f2.8 which is what I bought it for and my GX7 gives good image quality with my primes which is what I bought it for but I'm extremely irked that I can't use any body and lens combination that takes my fancy. This is supposed to be a system and you are supposed to be able to use any body and lens together and as I said... shipping the G7 with the 14-42mm is a disgrace.

 

[pete 1]

Then it's just down to luck, camera and lens combinations or maybe just very good light and fast shutter speeds If you use an affected body and lens combination with the mechanical shutter at an affected shutter speed it's only a matter of time before you see the problem.

My G7 gives good image quality with my 12-35mm f2.8 which is what I bought it for and my GX7 gives good image quality with my primes which is what I bought it for but I'm extremely irked that I can't use any body and lens combination that takes my fancy. This is supposed to be a system and you are supposed to be able to use any body and lens together and as I said... shipping the G7 with the 14-42mm is a disgrace.

It's obviously a problem, I'll have to keep an eye when my shots don't come out right, I always put it to user error but I'll certainly do some testing . Something they should be addressing or they'll end up with people going back to dslr again[emoji16]

 

[woof woof]

It's obviously a problem, I'll have to keep an eye when my shots don't come out right, I always put it to user error but I'll certainly do some testing . Something they should be addressing or they'll end up with people going back to dslr again[emoji16]

I think they are addressing it. The GX80 has a different shutter and I hope that the next Gx has a fix too... but even so this leaves me with two cameras and at least one lens that I can't in good conscience sell, not to someone unaware of the possible issue anyway and if I'd known then what I know now I'd never have bought this crap. The kit is IMHO just not fit for purpose. As I keep saying, it's a disgrace IMHO.

 

[srhmoto]

I'm the same as Robin - I use a GX8 and for how and what I shoot, shutter shock has yet to cause me a problem. It's a very real issue, there's no question about that, but it's not a given its will cause an individual a problem. I don't go out of my way to avoid it, it just hasn't been a problem for me in over a year of shooting with the GX8 including the kit lens that caused Alan problems.

Simon.

 

[Swissy]

At least Olympus admitted there was a problem by introducing 'Anti shock' into their camera's, it seemed to work well with my Pen when i had one.

Whereas Panasonic have only just tried to solve the problem with the new GX80, think i will hold on to my cash for now

 

[srhmoto]

Has anyone done any comparisons between the Oly 12-40mm f2.8 and Panny 12-35 f2.8 lenses? Seriously considering one or the other to my kit bag. Would be used on a GX8.

Thanks in advance.

Simon.

 

[Willo]

Has anyone done any comparisons between the Oly 12-40mm f2.8 and Panny 12-35 f2.8 lenses? Seriously considering one or the other to my kit bag. Would be used on a GX8.

Thanks in advance.

Simon.

I’m in the same situation, looking for a fast zoom. With the 12-35mm you will get IS and DFD which should make focus on a Panny body faster. With the 12-40mm you’ll gain the extra 5mm and from what I have seen it is cheaper and easier to get hold of in the used market.

Optically, they are very similar. Here is a good comparison:

http://www.mirrorlessons.com/2015/12/07/panasonic-12-35-vs-olympus-12-40/

 

[woof woof]

I'm the same as Robin - I use a GX8 and for how and what I shoot, shutter shock has yet to cause me a problem. It's a very real issue, there's no question about that, but it's not a given its will cause an individual a problem. I don't go out of my way to avoid it, it just hasn't been a problem for me in over a year of shooting with the GX8 including the kit lens that caused Alan problems.

Simon.

The thing is that shutter shock is a bit of a lottery. You have to have an affected camera and both you and I do, you have to have affected lenses and I do, not sure about you... and you have to use the mechanical shutter which would be my preferred option because of the issues that come with the electronic shutter and lastly you have to be shooting in the shutter shock affected shutter range which I do. With f3.5-5.6 lenses it's easy to drift into the 1/80 to 1/350 range even in daylight. For example in what passes for daylight at this moment in northern England my G7 at f5.6 selects 1/80 and ISO 320 and this is in the open... add some trees or other shade into the mix and it's easy to live in the shutter shock range no matter what ISO you select and if that's the case and all the shutter shock criteria are met (affected camera, affected lens, mechanical shutter and affected shutter speed) it's just a matter of time before shutter shock hits.

I've seen this compared to mirror slap in DSLR's and therefore something that we shouldn't worry about as it's always been with us but to me that's a load of c-r-a-p. This is a system hobbled by not being able to use multiple bodies with multiple lenses in perfectly reasonable and foreseeable ways and how Panasonic (and others) have got themselves in this position I find hard to fathom. If they had any integrity they'd offer the option of returning all affected bodies and lenses regardless of age and warranty status but of course there's zero chance of that both from a financial and loss of face point of view. IMO it's a shameful state of affairs and although I wouldn't say that anyone should avoid these cameras and lenses I do think that thought and research is required before buying affected cameras and/or lenses so that an informed decision can be made.

Has anyone done any comparisons between the Oly 12-40mm f2.8 and Panny 12-35 f2.8 lenses? Seriously considering one or the other to my kit bag. Would be used on a GX8.

Thanks in advance.

Simon.

I'm very pleased with my Panasonic 12-35mm f2.8. I've never used the Oly but I suspect that in real world shooting there'll only be minor differences between them and if that is the case maybe the advantages offered by using a Panasonic lens on a Panasonic body may outweigh any minor advantages that the Oly lens may possible have?

 

[pete 1]

The thing is that shutter shock is a bit of a lottery. You have to have an affected camera and both you and I do, you have to have affected lenses and I do, not sure about you... and you have to use the mechanical shutter which would be my preferred option because of the issues that come with the electronic shutter and lastly you have to be shooting in the shutter shock affected shutter range which I do. With f3.5-5.6 lenses it's easy to drift into the 1/80 to 1/350 range even in daylight. For example in what passes for daylight at this moment in northern England my G7 at f5.6 selects 1/80 and ISO 320 and this is in the open... add some trees or other shade into the mix and it's easy to live in the shutter shock range no matter what ISO you select and if that's the case and all the shutter shock criteria are met (affected camera, affected lens, mechanical shutter and affected shutter speed) it's just a matter of time before shutter shock hits.

I've seen this compared to mirror slap in DSLR's and therefore something that we shouldn't worry about as it's always been with us but to me that's a load of c-r-a-p. This is a system hobbled by not being able to use multiple bodies with multiple lenses in perfectly reasonable and foreseeable ways and how Panasonic (and others) have got themselves in this position I find hard to fathom. If they had any integrity they'd offer the option of returning all affected bodies and lenses regardless of age and warranty status but of course there's zero chance of that both from a financial and loss of face point of view. IMO it's a shameful state of affairs and although I wouldn't say that anyone should avoid these cameras and lenses I do think that thought and research is required before buying affected cameras and/or lenses so that an informed decision can be made.



I'm very pleased with my Panasonic 12-35mm f2.8. I've never used the Oly but I suspect that in real world shooting there'll only be minor differences between them and if that is the case maybe the advantages offered by using a Panasonic lens on a Panasonic body may outweigh any minor advantages that the Oly lens may possible have?

Never used the Panny, I don't believe in terms of iq there's any difference, I just prefer the slight extra reach and build quality of the Oly but none are deal breaker's, anyone would be happy with either lens.

 

[srhmoto]

As I said @woof woof , how and what I shoot hasn't so far caused me issues. I currently use the following lenses:-

Panny 14-42mm mk II
Panny 45-150mm
PL 15mm f1.7
PL 25mm f1.4
Panny 42.5mm f1.7
Sigma 60mm f2.8

For day to day shooting, I pretty much always use electronic shutter, only moving away from that for moving subjects. The main reason is not to avoid shutter shock, but rather so I can use the camera silently to help me get much more natural expressions on faces (especially my son) when we're out and about. Very rare I would be shooting indoors at elevated ISO. When I do it's usually family events and I'll usually use a wireless cactus flash system to help with the lighting.

As I said, shutter shock exists. I'd sooner it didn't, but I'm glad to say it has in no way detracted from my use and enjoyment of my GX8. At least so far .

Thanks for the feedback on the Panny 12-35mm - most appreciated!

Simon.

 

[woof woof]

For day to day shooting, I pretty much always use electronic shutter,

Well, there you go then.

I would mostly use the mechanical shutter with my GX7 as the electronic shutter limits me to ISO 3200. Many will doubtless balk at the thought of using higher ISO's but I do if I want to obtain the greater depth of field that moving away from wider apertures brings.

Thankfully with MFT and the x2 crop factor f8 and be there becomes f4 and be there if the lens can achieve that aperture. With my 5D I'd typically be shooting between wide open (rarely) and f10 and rarely anything smaller, mostly I'd be at f4 to f8 so with MFT I'm mostly wide open to f4 with occasional forays to f8 and rarely smaller but even so it's easy for me to drop into the shutter shock affected shutter speed range.

When using the GX7 with the 14-42mm I have no choice and will use the electronic shutter. When using my G7 I set it to automatically select mechanical or electronic shutter as the G7 isn't limited to ISO 3200 with the electronic shutter but of course the electronic shutter brings the possibility of banding under artificial lighting which makes shooting indoors extremely problematic as you (maybe) can't use the mechanical shutter due to shutter shock and you (maybe) can't use the electronic shutter due to banding. This issue makes my GX7 and G7 next to unusable for indoor shooting for example at family events etc... if I want to use an affected lens.

Research and thinking about your needs is the key as for outdoor good light shooters this isn't an issue, neither is it an issue if you don't use an affected body and lens combination but the key is knowing your own needs and the combinations that will or wont give you problems.

As I tend to shoot in all weathers and lighting conditions both indoors and out I'm potentially affected and therefore will have to be careful what body and lens combinations I use and in what conditions.

This is a minefield that shouldn't exist but those of us with affected bodies and lenses are stuck with it.

PS.
I could of course just throw the 14-42mm away and never buy a shutter shock affected lens but as you lot may have gathered I'm an over obsessive ocd ridden geek and all I think about is the problems that shouldn't exist I do accept that for normal people this (shutter shock) is rarely an issue but me being me it's all I see.

 

[michael23]

PS.
I could of course just throw the 14-42mm away and never buy a shutter shock affected lens but as you lot may have gathered I'm an over obsessive ocd ridden geek and all I think about is the problems that shouldn't exist I do accept that for normal people this (shutter shock) is rarely an issue but me being me it's all I see.

A similar situation with my canon 70d, riddled with focus issues, it was crap and kept missing focus with everything, canon staff told me it was user error...a few different places with canon staff later, one of them said lets take a look, a lovely lady she was and confirmed it was dodgy, I knew it was there and really annoyed me, and I had 2 bodies like it.

 

[pete 1]

A similar situation with my canon 70d, riddled with focus issues, it was crap and kept missing focus with everything, canon staff told me it was user error...a few different places with canon staff later, one of them said lets take a look, a lovely lady she was and confirmed it was dodgy, I knew it was there and really annoyed me, and I had 2 bodies like it.

I guess with the market being saturated with so many different cameras quality control is taking a back seat?

 

[michael23]

I guess with the market being saturated, quality control is taking a back seat?

I would agree with that 100% No excuses though with modern day technology, but then nothing is perfect and the affected cameras all over the map are just a drop in the ocean for the big guys.

 

[pete 1]

I would agree with that 100% No excuses though with modern day technology, but then nothing is perfect and the affected cameras all over the map are just a drop in the ocean for the big guys.

It might come back and bite them with more people choosing iPhone/pads as their camera of choice, not something I'd ever consider but times are changing

 

[mikew]

If you buy a new one and it suffers shutter shock you return it,if they cant fix it you get a refund.

 

[woof woof]

I don't think it's a case of fixing a shutter shock prone camera and lens as it seems to be a design fault. The shutter creates the vibration and the lens is susceptible to it. The only fix is to use a different camera, in my case I'd use my G1, or a different lens or of course to use an unaffected shutter speed or to use the electronic shutter if banding wont be an issue.

Regarding DSLR's I can understand focus issues because of how they're built and how they work. It's always going to be a tricky job to get the focus chip to line up correctly with the sensor and although we'd all like 100% testing on 100% of products in reality that just isn't going to happen as no one is going to pay for a DSLR that's been through a 100% quality assurance and testing routine.

With the shutter shock issue we're not talking about a faulty component or sloppy assembly we're talking about a shutter design which creates too much shock for some lenses to cope with at some shutter speeds. To me this is a basic product design problem rather than a misaligned DSLR focus system and less forgivable as this problem should have been anticipated or if not detected and rectified.

As far as I know there's been no admission as such from Panasonic that various bodies and lenses suffer shutter shock but what we can look forward to is future cameras which mitigate the issue, like the GX80.

One thing I would like to see is a table of affected bodies and lenses, that'd help people to make informed choices.

And just to add balance... I'm happy with the image quality I get from my GX7 and G7 with lenses that work well on them. Two shots chosen pretty much at random

G7 with 12-35mm.



GX7 with the offending 14-42mm but set to electronic shutter.

 

[Swissy]

Isn't the fact that they have gone out their way to address shutter shock with the GX80 an admission that there's a problem?

 

[woof woof]

I'd say so I think maybe it's the Japanese mentality, never admit you've got it wrong but do try and get it right next time

 

[srhmoto]

What I would say is that I've never had a problem using the Panny 14-42mm mk II on my GX8 with mechanical shutter when shooting landscapes etc. I am of course tripod mounted, but have shot this way in the effected shutter speed range with no issues whatsoever.

Just saying ;-)

Simon.

 

[woof woof]

The tripod may negate the shutter shock as you're adding something that could absorb or negate the shock, I don't know and I haven't tested it as mostly I shoot handheld. One day I might get around to testing it. With other cameras I've read reports of grips or adding weights curing the problem.

PS.
I'm thinking of the first generation Sony A7r, my A7 has electronic first curtain shutter which the r doesn't have. Some people reported shutter shock on the r with some lenses just like with Panasonic... and some reported that adding a grip or weights cured the problem.

I believe that some Olympus cameras have EFCS? I think Panasonic have stated that their readout isn't fast enough for it. I think.

 

[mikew]

I still stand by what i said,if you get shutter shock within the warranty period then its not performing as you would expect from a new camera,this means its a return job,fit for use springs to mind,they know they have a problem and dont want too much of a fuss.

 

[Swissy]

I agree with you mikew but I'm not going to take the risk of buying one, even though I've owned many Panasonic camera's in the past, for me the quite substantial amount I would have to pay for a GX8 or a G7 the models I was interested in is not worth the hassle

 

[mikew]

I agree with you mikew but I'm not going to take the risk of buying one, even though I've owned many Panasonic camera's in the past to me the quite substantial amount I need to pay for a GX8 is not worth the hassle

Not suggesting you do,just saying they can not sell cameras with a problem and think they can get away with it,they want to play with the grown ups like Nikon and Canon so they can expect to have to do recalls when they get it wrong.

 

[Swissy]

But they are getting away with it, woof woof says they sell the G7 in a kit with a lens that's affected by shutter shock.

 

[mikew]

st

What I would say is that I've never had a problem using the Panny 14-42mm mk II on my GX8 with mechanical shutter when shooting landscapes etc. I am of course tripod mounted, but have shot this way in the effected shutter speed range with no issues whatsoever.

Just saying ;-)

Simon.

I would have thought a tripod would make the issue worse if you had it,a story from my past,we used to do weddings with a Bronica S2A i think the sync speed was about a 30th,my wife did hand held flash fill shots 1000s of times,we sold the camera to another wedding photographer who was getting a high percentage of unsharp images from it.
When we looked into it he was working on a tripod we got him to try it hand held and it solved the problem,we came to the conclusion hand holding was absorbing the shock from the curtain and shutter.

 

[mikew]

But they are getting away with it, woof woof says they sell the G7 in a kit with a lens that's affected by shutter shock.

They only get away with it because people let them,i dont want to get into anything with woof woof but there are thousands of happy users out there showing results that dont include shutter shock,i understand he has this problem but many thousands dont.

I was an early purchaser of the Tamron 150-600 and it suffered with focus freeze,out in the big wide web there where a few others complaining but 99% of users had no problems,this made my complaining about it look out of proportion because its all i ever posted about the lens,yes it was returned for a full refund.

 

[pete 1]

I still stand by what i said,if you get shutter shock within the warranty period then its not performing as you would expect from a new camera,this means its a return job,fit for use springs to mind,they know they have a problem and dont want too much of a fuss.

Probably better to avoid them altogether

 

[mikew]

Probably better to avoid them altogether

I bought my GX8 in the full knowledge of all this because i knew if i had the problem Pannasonic would solve it for me one way or another,i bought it because none of the others where as good for BIF and because of the external controls.

 

[woof woof]

They only get away with it because people let them,i dont want to get into anything with woof woof but there are thousands of happy users out there showing results that dont include shutter shock,i understand he has this problem but many thousands dont.

I was an early purchaser of the Tamron 150-600 and it suffered with focus freeze,out in the big wide web there where a few others complaining but 99% of users had no problems,this made my complaining about it look out of proportion because its all i ever posted about the lens,yes it was returned for a full refund.

Just on who notices what. Many people wont be using the specific combinations of camera, lens and settings that produce shutter shock and lets be honest some people wont notice if their trousers are on fire or not. I've shown friends and family shutter shock ruined shots and they can't see what I'm talking about. Such is life.

I haven't tried to return anything because I've had my GX7 a long time and I'd had my G7 quite a while before I noticed the problem and if I send them back what am I going to use instead? It's a problem and although I rant and rave and wonder how it all came to this and curse Panasonic and their incompetence there are features about both cameras that I like and excluding the whole shutter shock issue...

I like the compactness of the GX7 with a prime and to be honest it's a pretty nice camera apart from the IMO horrible evf, and I'd only change/add a better evf, full time dof preview and auto ISO with exposure comp in all modes. That little lot would make the GX7 into a really good camera.

The G7 is a little sports car of a camera and apart from lacking constant dof preview and exposure compensation in all modes the only thing I'd change is the grip which I find very uncomfortable.

Ignore me. I'm just a geek with a bee in my bonnet

 

[pete 1]

I bought my GX8 in the full knowledge of all this because i knew if i had the problem Pannasonic would solve it for me one way or another,i bought it because none of the others where as good for BIF and because of the external controls.

And i bought without knowing the issue [emoji16], had no problems so no problem [emoji4]

 

[woof woof]

And i bought without knowing the issue [emoji16], had no problems so no problem [emoji4]

But you could have a problem in the future if you buy an affected lens and use it with the mechanical shutter in the shutter shock range.

TBH I'd probably never have bought the 14-42mm as it's just not my sort of lens but the only way I could buy a G7 was as a kit. Matched with a prime or the unaffected 12-35mm my GX7 and G7 both perform well. The key is knowing the potential issue and how to avoid it.

Anyway, at least anyone reading this thread will be well informed and therefore able to go on and research the issue further and make an informed decision.

 

[pete 1]

But you could have a problem in the future if you buy an affected lens and use it with the mechanical shutter in the shutter shock range.

TBH I'd probably never have bought the 14-42mm as it's just not my sort of lens but the only way I could buy a G7 was as a kit. Matched with a prime or the unaffected 12-35mm my GX7 and G7 both perform well. The key is knowing the potential issue and how to avoid it.

Anyway, at least anyone reading this thread will be well informed and therefore able to go on and research the issue further and make an informed decision.

I won't buy any affected lenses, only have the 12-40 2.8, 40-150 2.8 and the 45 1.8 all olys

 

[mikew]

Which are the lenses to avoid,i have the 12-35,45-175 and 100-400