PC, Build Or Buy?

RE case, Fractal were in the running for me. I ended up going for an Antec in the end, this one.........

NX410 is the best ATX Tower case with Large Mesh Front - Antec

Tons of space and it's quiet. It has LED fans, which I thought would annoy me, but it doesn't to be fair and gives a low level glow to the working area. They can be switched off completely too, or change the colours, I run mine blue. There are 3 fans, 2x 140 at the front and a 120 at the rear and together with my CPU cooler, the PC doesn't break a sweat. I think my case was under £80 but I'd have to go back in the thread to check that.

RE temp, there's a free bit of software called CoreTemp. I have it installed and I'm yet to see the new CPU go over 25 degrees.
 
Talking of parts etc

RAM
DDR 4 or 5?

CPU cooler
Supplied in retail box or 3rd party one, if so which make & model?

TIA:)
 
Box Brownie said:
Talking of parts etc

RAM
DDR 4 or 5?

CPU cooler
Supplied in retail box or 3rd party one, if so which make & model?

TIA:)
Click to expand...

I have 32Gb DDR4 (5 is too new and expensive, considering you need a MB too).

Cooler, always 3rd party. Stock ones are pretty pants imho Mine is a Noctua NH-D15S (y)

​

 
OTOH I've always been happy to use the cooler in the box, not being one to thrash their computer.
 
Dale. said:
My RAM is DDR4.

I use a 3rd party CPU cooler,

happy with both,

my spec here..... Dale's PC.
Click to expand...
Thanks......will re-read;)
Paulie-W said:
I have 32Gb DDR4 (5 is too new and expensive, considering you need a MB too).

Cooler, always 3rd party. Stock ones are pretty pants imho Mine is a Noctua NH-D15S (y)

​

Click to expand...
FWIW and bearing in mind this dates to 2010 I still have the original Intel HSF but do de-dust every year.

IIRC Noctua HSF's have been around a while.....so something to revisit:)
ancient_mariner said:
OTOH I've always been happy to use the cooler in the box, not being one to thrash their computer.
Click to expand...
Like you I have never overclocked but I have at times (hotter summer days!) seen the CPU temps rise quite dramatically!
 
That Noctua is a bit of a beast though, so if you do go that way. Make sure you measure up first ;)
 
Paulie-W said:
That Noctua is a bit of a beast though, so if you do go that way. Make sure you measure up first ;)
Click to expand...
I used the

Noctua NH-C14S, Premium CPU Cooler with NF-A14 PWM 140mm Fan (Brown)​


in my Ryzen 5900 Build, It can be low profile by moving the fan, It fits into my very old slimish tower case which fits under my desk which is in the corner of our spare bedroom.
It is very quite and cools the cpu well
 
For me a custom CPU heatsink was not only to keep temperatures lower but also because the fans are bigger, therefore the rpm lower and subsequently the noise, even when the CPU warms up. Stock CPU heatsink fans can get pretty noisy.
 
gman said:
For me a custom CPU heatsink was not only to keep temperatures lower but also because the fans are bigger, therefore the rpm lower and subsequently the noise, even when the CPU warms up. Stock CPU heatsink fans can get pretty noisy.
Click to expand...

My build from 2021 is silent most of the time except when heavily loaded, and you're probably correct that it's the CPU fan. Maybe time to upgrade.
 
ancient_mariner said:
My build from 2021 is silent most of the time except when heavily loaded, and you're probably correct that it's the CPU fan. Maybe time to upgrade.
Click to expand...

I suppose it would depend on how often it is heavily loaded and if the noise bothers you. But it's pretty cheap and easy to whack a custom heatsink on. Cooler temps should help the lifespan of the processor as well, but that's probably negligible for general use.

I went for the The Alpenföhn Brocken 3 to cool my Ryzen 5600X (linky). The big heatsink seems to help keep fan activity to a minimum and even then it's 140cm fans so nice and quiet. I use Argus Monitor (linky) to create my own fan profiles to further improve on noise. I also use HWinfo to monitor the temps and have both the CPU and GPU temps pinned to the taskbar for easy viewing, which is handy to see what causes CPU temps to rise the most.
 
Paulie-W said:
That Noctua is a bit of a beast though, so if you do go that way. Make sure you measure up first ;)
Click to expand...
Definitely, Noctua have a compatibility chart on their website for fitting in cases and ram clearances.

I use a Noctua NH-D15 on a Ryzen 9 3900x which is a bit pricey and not compact but my system is under load a lot of time and I wanted something quiet without going to an AIO cooler. It works amazingly well to the point I thought it was faulty as it was so quiet when the processor was under load and Noctua support is good so I'm hoping they'll support it with newer sockets and it can go in my next system as well.
 
I've been thinking............. :thinking:

My PC has been up and running now for just over a month. It's been flawless, a few creases had to be ironed out but nothing major.

My old PC slowed down and I'm sure a lot of that was due to bloat and accumulated rubbish over the years, cookies, temp files etc etc. I used to run CCleaner, which I found alright, given my limited knowlodge of IT. I also used to run SpyBot, the paid version as in my mind, those 2 bits of software should be doing all the clearing up for me and keeping things fresh. If my theory is correct about bloat over the years though, that software failed in that respect. I also tried BleachBit but it was a bit deep for me and I wondered if I was doing more harm than good.

This is what got me thinking, my new PC has been running a while now, it's been a joy to use but I am begining to wonder if I need to do any clearing up behind the scenes? Should I be doing this manually or is there a program/software that would do it in one shot?

I'm currently using the Windows 10 Firewall and Windows AV, although I'm not too concerned about viruses and malware, this is more about cookies and suchlike.

(y)
 
Dale. said:
This is what got me thinking, my new PC has been running a while now, it's been a joy to use but I am begining to wonder if I need to do any clearing up behind the scenes? Should I be doing this manually or is there a program/software that would do it in one shot?
Click to expand...

My feeling would be to say no, but just keep an eye on performance and if you perceive it slowing down then consider a reinstall. AFAICT most of the cruft is from updates making changes to the system, and I've found computers that are isolated from the internet and don't get updated or have new software installed remain reasonable, even after 10 years.
 
ancient_mariner said:
My feeling would be to say no, but just keep an eye on performance and if you perceive it slowing down then consider a reinstall. AFAICT most of the cruft is from updates making changes to the system, and I've found computers that are isolated from the internet and don't get updated or have new software installed remain reasonable, even after 10 years.
Click to expand...


Cool, thanks.
 
A re-install needn't be from scratch. I keep an image file taken at the end of the build process so, if things go badly wrong, I can restore that, let it catch up with the updates, restore any personal data and it's back up and running. Taking another image at this point would save time if it happens again.
 
As mentioned, it has been a while since my last build....so a trickle of insight questions are likely... ;)

Like this one....
With the advent of case designs now being made with the PSU mounted in the base....where the base has a ventilation grid for airflow, which way up is advised/recommended to install the PSU i.e. with the PSU fan uppermost and drawing case air through it or lowermost and drawing room air through it (I saw one schematic for BeQuiet cases showing the latter and that made sense) i.e. cooler room air intake.

I am favouring the Fractal Define model and it seems that the R6 has been superceded by the Define 7 and yes I have measured my desk and though that much bigger then my current LianLi it will fit (just ;) ) The 7 has the configuration I seek with the drives being placed in the intake airflow pathway and is has flexibility should I ever (yes ever bearing in mind my age :LOL:) do another re-build :thinking:

PS edit
my wishlist of parts is gathering (in the past I have used NovaTech in Portsmouth and they still to be a good company.......a few years back I knew the Tech Director of a company and he used them almost 100% for his multiple volume orders).
 
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OK another one....

The motherboard I am looking at a Gigabyte Z790 DDR4 has two sockets for M.2 PCIe SSDs, now my current plans as to duplicate my current 2 x Crucial SSDs and 3 off HDDs (possibly 4 off?) but I would appreciate knowing whether I should factor in the one or more M.2 PCIe SSDs and if so is it best for OS and/or Programs or storage :thinking:
 
Box Brownie said:
OK another one....

The motherboard I am looking at a Gigabyte Z790 DDR4 has two sockets for M.2 PCIe SSDs, now my current plans as to duplicate my current 2 x Crucial SSDs and 3 off HDDs (possibly 4 off?) but I would appreciate knowing whether I should factor in the one or more M.2 PCIe SSDs and if so is it best for OS and/or Programs or storage :thinking:
Click to expand...

I would use M2 SSDs rather than SATA SSDs , if that's your queston. Be aware too that they may need heat sinks - my MSI Mobo came with 1 heatsink fore the Gen 4 M2 socket, but didn't have one for the second Gen 3 socket. Also IF your board has a only a single Gen 4 socket then make sure the drive with windows and apps goes in there.
 
I was surprised to find my current PC was built in 2019 so over three years old now and it's still on the original install, running well without issues despite having a lot of software installed and uninstalled over the years. I haven't taken any particular steps to 'clean' or speed up the system and not convinced about these tools either, it's more been older systems but when they've slowed down I've not been able to get them running better unless there's a specific cause and found a rebuild is the way to go.
 
ancient_mariner said:
I would use M2 SSDs rather than SATA SSDs , if that's your queston. Be aware too that they may need heat sinks - my MSI Mobo came with 1 heatsink fore the Gen 4 M2 socket, but didn't have one for the second Gen 3 socket. Also IF your board has a only a single Gen 4 socket then make sure the drive with windows and apps goes in there.
Click to expand...
I will look in the motherboard manual for the exact specs of the M2 sockets.

In regard to my current setup I have the OS on one SSD and the majority (where custom installs are available) on the E drive second SSD.

Therefore if I do use the M2 SSDs in my setup, as I will not be doing a fresh install but a cloned install (with new W10 license re: anticipation of it needing it), I will have start that way and then clone the V drive SSD to an M2 and reorganise the drive letter management to boot from the M2.

Though unsure about the E drive and whether using two M2 SSDs cloned as currently setup??

More food for thought :thinking:

Edit~ I don't recall M2 heatsinks being mentioned in the motherboard box contents.

Edit2
This is the spec for the M2 sockets
"Socket 3, M key, type 22110/2280 PCIe 4.0 x4/x2 SSD support"
 
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PSU airflow - air being pulled in from underneath and vented out of the rear is the norm, hence there normally being a filtered mesh on the bottom.

It took me quite a lot of configuration attempts to get the right setup for my case because you really want to be pulling the hot air away from components rather than actually trying to cool them with ambient air, which most likely won't be particularly cold. So I have exhaust fans near specific components to pull the hot air away and my intake fans are more to create good airflow paths through the case and assist the exhaust fans.

However, just to add a little extra complexity, you also want positive air pressure in your case, so more intake airflow than exhaust - baring in mind it's not necessarily having more fans because size, rpm, and blade design all effect airflow. The reason for positive pressure is because the case will not be leak proof, so if you have negative pressure the case will suck in air through panel gaps etc and these aren't filtered against dust and consequently dusty components will essentially become insulated and hotter.

But different cases, fans, layouts, requirements etc can make it all rather subjective and open to lots of customisation.
 
Box Brownie said:
OK another one....

The motherboard I am looking at a Gigabyte Z790 DDR4 has two sockets for M.2 PCIe SSDs, now my current plans as to duplicate my current 2 x Crucial SSDs and 3 off HDDs (possibly 4 off?) but I would appreciate knowing whether I should factor in the one or more M.2 PCIe SSDs and if so is it best for OS and/or Programs or storage :thinking:
Click to expand...

Which Z790 is it?

Also, I'm sure I remember that there's something that needs to be taken into account the Gen 4 M.2. I can't remember exactly what it was or if it was motherboard specific, but could be something like the Gen 4 speed is only if one drive is connected, but if you connect to the second M.2 then you only get Gen 3 speeds with the Gen 4 slot. I wish I could remember!
 
gman said:
PSU airflow - air being pulled in from underneath and vented out of the rear is the norm, hence there normally being a filtered mesh on the bottom.

It took me quite a lot of configuration attempts to get the right setup for my case because you really want to be pulling the hot air away from components rather than actually trying to cool them with ambient air, which most likely won't be particularly cold. So I have exhaust fans near specific components to pull the hot air away and my intake fans are more to create good airflow paths through the case and assist the exhaust fans.

However, just to add a little extra complexity, you also want positive air pressure in your case, so more intake airflow than exhaust - baring in mind it's not necessarily having more fans because size, rpm, and blade design all effect airflow. The reason for positive pressure is because the case will not be leak proof, so if you have negative pressure the case will suck in air through panel gaps etc and these aren't filtered against dust and consequently dusty components will essentially become insulated and hotter.

But different cases, fans, layouts, requirements etc can make it all rather subjective and open to lots of customisation.
Click to expand...
The aforementioned Fractal Define 7 has two front fans and one rear = positive pressure :)
gman said:
Which Z790 is it?

Also, I'm sure I remember that there's something that needs to be taken into account the Gen 4 M.2. I can't remember exactly what it was or if it was motherboard specific, but could be something like the Gen 4 speed is only if one drive is connected, but if you connect to the second M.2 then you only get Gen 3 speeds with the Gen 4 slot. I wish I could remember!
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It is this one

www.gigabyte.com

Z790 D DDR4 (rev. 1.0) Key Features | Motherboard - GIGABYTE Global

Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...
www.gigabyte.com www.gigabyte.com

They do list a DDR 5 version but I cannot find any UK outlet that stocks.......they do stock its WiFI versions and have no need for that function (I have a USB WiFi as needed ;) )

If I could get the DDR 5 version I might as the DDR 4 vs 5 is not a huge price differential. But DDR 4 should be fine in a none gaming rig :thinking:
 
Box Brownie said:
The aforementioned Fractal Define 7 has two front fans and one rear = positive pressure :)

It is this one

www.gigabyte.com

Z790 D DDR4 (rev. 1.0) Key Features | Motherboard - GIGABYTE Global

Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...
www.gigabyte.com www.gigabyte.com

They do list a DDR 5 version but I cannot find any UK outlet that stocks.......they do stock its WiFI versions and have no need for that function (I have a USB WiFi as needed ;) )

If I could get the DDR 5 version I might as the DDR 4 vs 5 is not a huge price differential. But DDR 4 should be fine in a none gaming rig :thinking:
Click to expand...


Depends on the fans I guess, the CFM can vary dramatically. If three identical fans then all good though. I thought that case had a lot more fan locations than that, or is it just the three that you are intending to install?

Mind if getting a big heatsink and attaching a fan to it to push air through then go for a static pressure fan rather than a regular airflow one.

Phew about the MB, there's a Z790 model that has some worrying reviews. I think it's the AORUS ELITE AX DDR5.
 
gman said:
Depends on the fans I guess, the CFM can vary dramatically. If three identical fans then all good though. I thought that case had a lot more fan locations than that, or is it just the three that you are intending to install?

Mind if getting a big heatsink and attaching a fan to it to push air through then go for a static pressure fan rather than a regular airflow one.

Phew about the MB, there's a Z790 model that has some worrying reviews. I think it's the AORUS ELITE AX DDR5.
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The Define 7 comes as standard with 3 identical fans, 2 at the front and 1 at the rear...................and yes the info says it can take 9 fans ~ :cool: but I will not be overclocking the CPU (in all likelihood this one https://www.novatech.co.uk/products...ocket-lga1700-cpuprocessor/bx8071513700f.html or if the build costs exceed my expectations an i5 https://www.novatech.co.uk/products...socket-lga1700-cpuprocessor/bx8071513400.html

In regard to the Z790 D DDR4 I cannot see any reviews let alone critical one(s) ???
 
Box Brownie said:
The Define 7 comes as standard with 3 identical fans, 2 at the front and 1 at the rear...................and yes the info says it can take 9 fans ~ :cool: but I will not be overclocking the CPU (in all likelihood this one https://www.novatech.co.uk/products...ocket-lga1700-cpuprocessor/bx8071513700f.html or if the build costs exceed my expectations an i5 https://www.novatech.co.uk/products...socket-lga1700-cpuprocessor/bx8071513400.html

In regard to the Z790 D DDR4 I cannot see any reviews let alone critical one(s) ???
Click to expand...

Reviews all look good for that MB.

Just looking at those processors, jeez, I bought my Ryzen 5 5600X just under two years ago and it was up there among the fastest ten or so processors, scoring 21934. Now there's a whole raft of processors scoring well over 60000 and right up to 124119 !!! lol Technology certainly is moving fast.

If it helps, that i5 you are looking at scores a little higher than mine, and mine takes pretty much anything I throw at it at the moment. I specifically went for the 5600X over others that had higher core counts because of its good Single Thread Rating, and that i5 scores even higher here as well. The Max TDP is good at 65W as well.

The i7 scores brilliant, but unless video encoding etc I wonder if you would see the extra performance and therefore worth the extra money?


1677804931810.png
 
gman said:
Reviews all look good for that MB.

Just looking at those processors, jeez, I bought my Ryzen 5 5600X just under two years ago and it was up there among the fastest ten or so processors, scoring 21934. Now there's a whole raft of processors scoring well over 60000 and right up to 124119 !!! lol Technology certainly is moving fast.

If it helps, that i5 you are looking at scores a little higher than mine, and mine takes pretty much anything I throw at it at the moment. I specifically went for the 5600X over others that had higher core counts because of its good Single Thread Rating, and that i5 scores even higher here as well. The Max TDP is good at 65W as well.

The i7 scores brilliant, but unless video encoding etc I wonder if you would see the extra performance and therefore worth the extra money?


View attachment 382902
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Thanks for your insights and information :)

Edit ~ I meant to add in summary....
Corsair RM 750W Gold PSU (current old one is a Corsair HX 650W Bronze)
32GB of Crucial DDR 4 (standard not Ballistix)
As not overclocking I might stick with Intel stock HSF.....I have read that Intel have an improved HSF these days.

Still to look on detail at M2 SSD drives!
 
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Box Brownie said:
Thanks for your insights and information :)
Click to expand...

I'm fast reaching my limit! But if not already there, the Overclockers forums are fantastic for getting advice. Some of the guys there know things about builds and components that is invaluable and certainly helped me.

Linky
 
gman said:
I'm fast reaching my limit! But if not already there, the Overclockers forums are fantastic for getting advice. Some of the guys there know things about builds and components that is invaluable and certainly helped me.

Linky
Click to expand...
Thanks, will have a gander.

I was in PM comms with a guy on the DxO PhotoLab forum and his background is in IT support & management.........IIRC he has 4 PC systems in his cave/study and one is just a testing rig! He was the one that gave me the reassurance about W10 being very tolerant of clone drive builds with the caveat of having a new W10 license ready plus all the new motherboard drivers to update them on the cloned OS drive as appropriate.

On a side note, some AI based programs now require the CPU to have AVX2 instruction set to work such as Topaz Photo AI and in the case of Topaz Sharpen AI masking.
 
gman said:
I'm fast reaching my limit! But if not already there, the Overclockers forums are fantastic for getting advice. Some of the guys there know things about builds and components that is invaluable and certainly helped me.

Linky
Click to expand...
Seconded. I've been there longer than I've been here and that seems long enough.....
 
@gman
Can you please post a link to the CPU comparator that you embedded above?
 
Paulie-W said:
I have 32Gb DDR4 (5 is too new and expensive, considering you need a MB too).

Cooler, always 3rd party. Stock ones are pretty pants imho Mine is a Noctua NH-D15S (y)

​

Click to expand...
I agree DDR4 is fine try and get 32GB is possible, DDR5 is way too expensive and you will need a now MoBo
 
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Box Brownie said:
@gman
Can you please post a link to the CPU comparator that you embedded above?
Click to expand...

This is it: linky

There will be variables involved because it's based on user tests and not lab, so other components may have a marginal impact on a score, but as an overall general guide I think it's pretty good. Obviously the higher the submissions (samples) the better. Tabs at the top for checking the rankings of GPU, Memory etc as well.

Interesting to hear about that AVX2 instruction set, I never knew that.
 
gman said:
This is it: linky

There will be variables involved because it's based on user tests and not lab, so other components may have a marginal impact on a score, but as an overall general guide I think it's pretty good. Obviously the higher the submissions (samples) the better. Tabs at the top for checking the rankings of GPU, Memory etc as well.

Interesting to hear about that AVX2 instruction set, I never knew that.
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Thanks for the link :)

Re:AVX2
Topaz Photo AI will not install and a dialogue box comes up stating AVX2 not supported.

In regard to Topaz Sharpen AI it has masking to 'select' just a/the subject but was very loose i.e. did not snap to the edges of the subject. However, with a CPU with AVX2 it snaps to the edges(requiring a tad of adjustment vs significant cleaning up?).

PS here is where the masking effect is covered with ref to the need (?) for AVX2
www.topazlabs.com

Sharpen AI v4.1: Improved auto-select mask models, streamlined batch model downloads, and other performance enhancements

Learn all about the significant improvements we made to our auto-detect masking tools and more convenient batch model downloads
www.topazlabs.com www.topazlabs.com
 
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Update on plans......

The Gigabyte Z790 D DDR motherboard has 3 off M2. SSD slots but though NVMe is not mentioned the manual does state "M2.PCIe x4 SSD" and that as far as I can tell is indeed the NVMe type of M2. SSD i.e. not the M2.SATA SSD

So, for the cloning I am planning and as this current PC does not have M2. slots......................I have found I can get an external enclosure for the M2. PCIe SSD and connect it via the USB-C port for the cloning process ~ all reads as a good way to get the lightening fast NVMe drives in the new PC :)
 
ancient_mariner said:
www.crucial.com

NVMe vs M.2 vs SATA vs PCIe: What are these SSDs?

Confused about M.2, PCIe, SATA and NVMe SSDs? The experts at Crucial explain all you need to know about form factors, physical interfaces and more.
www.crucial.com www.crucial.com

Explains that M2 is a physical format & NNVME is a protocol.
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Thank you

What seems to be the case is that M2. SSD PCIe are all NVMe but M2. SSD SATA are not NVMe

In the chosen motherboard manual there is no mention of NVMe but M2.PCIe x4 SSD.....so by default of available to buy products these are ones with NVMe

PS the Crucial P3 Plus M2 series is on discount on Amazon at the moment :thinking: Looks like a good deal to start the pre build buying :)
 
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Just ordered:-
2 off Crucial P3 Plus M.2 SSDs~ 1 off 1TB & 1 off 500GB
An external case for the cloning
A 1M USB-C cable

All for a tad over £125 from Amazon.

PS yes the P5 version would be even quicker but that bit more costly and for my purposes I surmise the P3 speeds will be a revelation once installed as the C & E drives in the new build....bearing in mind my current PC is about 13 years old :LOL:

PPS I will be collating the rest of the parts for purchase in the next couple of weeks.
 
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