STOLEN D3s + D300s & more :(

SussexBlue said:
Sorry to read this but I'm afraid that theft seems to be a crime that does pay these days. I'm surprised that you don't seem to have a secure area for personal possessions whilst at work.
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If your insurance doesn't pay, and their stated reason is that the possessions were effectively left in a public place. Perhaps some weight should be put on your employers to reimburse you the stolen items.
 
Sorry to hear of this ryan.

Hopefully all the insurance stuff will pass without a hitch and you'll have your new camera gear soon.

Arkady said:
Not good at all - for what it's worth, my TomTom's 'Home' location is the middle of the Salisbury Plain Artillery-Impact Area...made me chuckle...
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Seriously, this rocks.
 
As promised.....

Update #15,126

Had the dreaded phone call from the Loss Adjustor today. I told him the facts and he noted everything down as necessary. He was obviously interested in where the coat was in the office and I told him the whole truth and admitted I shouldn't have left my keys in the coat.

After a 10 minute chat I told I was very worried about this "violent and forcible entry" wording in the policy. He said that it will be an issue and that in past cases the courts have sided with the insurer - that unlocking the door with stolen keys is not "violent and forcible".

So it looks like I'm buggered. Although he's calling me tomorrow to tell me one way or the other. :(

So now my choices are:-

1) See if the house insurers will accept a claim for the kit.
2) See if work will take some responsibilty and help me out ( I think they may be richer than me).
3) Borrow more money on the mortgage and buy it all again myself.

If I've missed an option please let me know!!

And now for some good news:-

1) My Aunt and her other half have lent me their second car - and it's only cost £18 for 14 days cover :)
2) I received a gift card from the home insurers for Currys. Have been out and replaced my ipod with a new (to me) ipod Touch. A new toy to play with.

Not much consolation but it's a start.

Cheers again for all the kind words of support. Too many to thank individually but I really am so grateful.

All the best

Ryan
 
Hi Ryan,

Bad news about the loss adjusters initial impression, i am so sorry to hear that.

Perhaps it may be worth seeing what he says tomorrow and then contacting some of the guys who have posted and are experts in the insurance business if they won't consider paying out? They may be able to suggest how best to try and counter the adjusters decison.

Seems strange to me that one company has accepted the circumstances and paid out and the other looks like wriggling out of doing so...

Fingers crossed and good luck!

Best wishes,

Tracey
 
If they don't pay out can I suggest you name the company so that other who may be looking for insurance can make a more informed choice, not much point in taking out insurance with companies who don't like paying out..
 
Tinkie said:
Hi Ryan,

Bad news about the loss adjusters initial impression, i am so sorry to hear that.

Perhaps it may be worth seeing what he says tomorrow and then contacting some of the guys who have posted and are experts in the insurance business if they won't consider paying out? They may be able to suggest how best to try and counter the adjusters decison.

Seems strange to me that one company has accepted the circumstances and paid out and the other looks like wriggling out of doing so...

Fingers crossed and good luck!

Best wishes,

Tracey
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I agree with the above post.

If the insurers are willing to pay out for certain items them they must pay out for all of the items stolen.
If they are stalling or not willing to pay out,i would check your legal cover on the policy (if you have it)and seek there advice.

Hope it works out for you.
 
swanseamale47 said:
If they don't pay out can I suggest you name the company so that other who may be looking for insurance can make a more informed choice, not much point in taking out insurance with companies who don't like paying out..
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+1

I'd hate to be insured with them and find problems down the line ....
 
spxxxx said:
+1

I'd hate to be insured with them and find problems down the line ....
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I fully intend to name the company concerned but I want to wait until I know what I think to them myself first before I give advice about them.

You'll know my opinions soon enough.
 
Have you tried telling them that the other (house) insurance has paid out, in identical circumstances?
 
Not yet but the loss adjustor said that the photography insurance is a commercial policy whereas contents insurance is a personal policy.

I will stress it though if I have to.

Thanks for the tip :)
 
ryanyboy said:
Not yet but the loss adjustor said that the photography insurance is a commercial policy whereas contents insurance is a personal policy.

I will stress it though if I have to.

Thanks for the tip :)
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Question:
why photography insurance is a commercial policy ?

and really really sorry about your loss...I would kill if not myself, those who did it if it would happen to me ...
 
I am really sorry to have heard all this Ryan

I can't believe the "forcible entry" clause either!

Insurance companies are quick enough to take the premiums
and wriggle like a couple of ferrets in a sack ( Oh wait no that's a different quote :D)
Maggot on a hook when they fear they will have to pay out.

I wish you luck and hope that it eventually reaches a satisfactory conclusion (y)
 
I have been reading through this thread, & do wonder , is it not the keys that have been voilently & forcibly stolen from your coat whilst stored in your employers desiginated
area for storing your belongings whilst at work.I feel a claim against the employer may allso be a considerationfo failing to provide a secure area, just a couple of my thoughts on it . good luck. colin
 
Just read this thread, surely the fact that you were in a secure area (appointment needed and security escort people up to you) would mean that your jacket and therefore the keys were not in a "public" place but in a private place, therefore the forced entry clause should not apply in this case.

Really hope you get a payout for it, and as others have said if they don't pay let us know who they are, my renewal date is coming up so I would want to change if I was with them.
 
bastic said:
Question:
why photography insurance is a commercial policy ?

and really really sorry about your loss...I would kill if not myself, those who did it if it would happen to me ...
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Thanks chap. It's classed as commercial insurance because I use the kit for work. I have the policy mainly for public liability and the like - just in case I drop a 70-200 on a bridesmaids foot or something.

I also use the kit for play so maybe the home insurers will be able to do something....
 
Ryan,

If the insurers fail to pay, would consider a court action against them.

theft by its definition is not necessarily violent or forceful....... definition

Had it been burglary....... maybe another story...

I can see where they (insurers) are coming from though, as previously a few cases where driver fills up at pump and leaves keys in ignition when goes to pay, surprise, car gets nicked when they go to pay - and end up not being covered for negligence.

Surely, it is the duty of Employer (esp if you are dealing wiht low life scumbags) to provide a safe place to leave personal yet necessary possessions whilst at work - e.g. your coat (and contents!!)

I think due to the value of the claim, the insurers will look for room to get out of it if they can, (and having worked for a major UK insurer for last 10 yrs until July 09) I know they can be bar stewards when they want to be.

Don't accept their answers if not pleasing to you, and generally a letter to the CEO's office with mention of financial ombusdman prick's their ears up a bit, and they start to look again.

At the end of the day, your car and house keys were stolen, from your place of employment, (or maybe house keys in the car, don't remember) and from that they found your car (easy with keyfobs) , and house (easy again with sat nav - though I suspect they knew more about you than you want to think about)

Just seems, bizarre that a couple of scrotes, nicked some not all of the camera gear, ipod and ps3, are givens....... yet left so much behind when had time and vehicle.........

Don't accept a no from insurers, and like so many before, if worst comes to the worst, I'll go £20 as well.
 
susie said:
Just read this thread, surely the fact that you were in a secure area (appointment needed and security escort people up to you) would mean that your jacket and therefore the keys were not in a "public" place but in a private place, therefore the forced entry clause should not apply in this case.

Really hope you get a payout for it, and as others have said if they don't pay let us know who they are, my renewal date is coming up so I would want to change if I was with them.
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Thanks Susie - I agree it's certainly NOT a public place - it's just members of the public come into the office to attend appointments with us. And while they are doing that their mates are nicking my stuff!!:cautious:
 
ah - just now read your post from 21.31. Are you doing professional (paid) photography, even if not main source of income?

Do you have commercial (business) insurance or trying to claim this through household?

If you are doing pro work (i.e. charging!) , but keeping kit at home, and don't have commercial insurance, they will try to use that to get out of paying out.
 
Lynton said:
ah - just now read your post from 21.31. Are you doing professional (paid) photography, even if not main source of income?

Do you have commercial (business) insurance or trying to claim this through household?

If you are doing pro work (i.e. charging!) , but keeping kit at home, and don't have commercial insurance, they will try to use that to get out of paying out.
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Thanks Lynton for this and your previous post. Really appreciate it mate.

This policy is classed as commercial insurance because I get paid to shoot weddings etc. Not full time but it doesn't matter for the purposes of the insurance and claim.
 
I send my condolences having been a 'victim' of crime last weekend myself. The *$@"& stole my van load of tools. Yes, the tools of my trade collected over the last 30 years all gone, because some selfish moronic scumbag is too stupid to find something useful to do with their miserable existence! I hope you were fully insured mate, because my so called wonderful company whose van my tools were in says my tools weren't covered. It makes you feel physically ill...
 
Jeez - sorry RustyMac.

Something had got to be done about these insurers!! Seriously it's atrocious. :annoyed:
 
Interesting post...

I haven't read all of it, just the start and the end.

I was just wondering about the rest of us...

How many of you have anywhere at work to store anything that is secure?

How many of us leave our keys in a pocket or in a bag?

what else are you supposed to do ?

Interesting potential issue I guess....

Cheers

MIP
 
coldpenguin said:
Have you tried telling them that the other (house) insurance has paid out, in identical circumstances?
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That really doesn;t matter. Every policy is worded differently, and just because one insurer will cover doesn't mean another will.

Ryan, sorry to hear about this. In a former life I worked in insurance, both for a home insurer and for a loss adjuster. It sounds like your camera insurerer has a very limited theft cover if they are excluding all but violent or forcible entry. One good thing that may come form this is that others will check their own policies to make sure that they have the cover they think they have.

As for you home insurers otherwise covering the kit, I wouldn't hold your breath, most domestic policies will exclude any professional equipment. As you've insured it elsewhere under a commercial policy you'd have a hard job arguing otherwise. I could be wrong, but I'd rather that you were prepared for the worst if it comes about.

In defence of the insurance industry, the vast majority of disappointment is as a result of people not reading their policies and being aware of what is or is not covered. In the main, insurance companies do not wriggle out of paying claims, they simply go by the policy they sent out to you when you took out the cover. If you haven't disclosed something, or haven't complied to a requirement, (e.g. the right level of locks on your doors and windows) you can't really complain when they refuse to pay out. Everyone gets, (or should get) a policy book at the start of cover, and I would urge everyone to read theirs to make sure that they have the cover they expect.

When there case where the policiy holder is let down, it's is usually due to human error or deceit. Policies can be mis-sold by accident or on purpose (at the loss adjustor we had no end of issues with General Accident policies mis-sold by mortgage advisors). At the other end of the process, sometimes it comes down to the person processing your claim and how well they know the policy and insurance in general. Unfortunately it can be pot luck in that respect.

Finally Ryan, don't forget that you can get a loss adjustor/claims advisor to act on your behalf. Their fees may be covered by your home insurance so it really wouldn't do any harm to call one up. I got one involved on behalf of my dad when he was having difficulty with a theft claim, it helped no end and the fees were covered by the insurance.

Hope it all works out for you.
 
Ryan,

TFFT! (sure you can work it out)

Was dreading you saying had "value household cover" but several £K worth of what your average claims bod would asy "professional kit"

In that case, cannot see why they cannot pay out. There will be a pi55ing contest on the definition of theft, for sure, however, I am sure OED, or Chambers are a more recognised body in the definition of a word, phrase or term.........

Appreciate there is small print, and this is no defence, but how many of us, read every small word.........."Microsoft would like to add updates to your computer, do you wish to proceed?" - Everyone of us on here (expcept the Apple's) scorlls down, and clicks Yes.
 
Lynton said:
In that case, cannot see why they cannot pay out. There will be a pi55ing contest on the definition of theft, for sure, however, I am sure OED, or Chambers are a more recognised body in the definition of a word, phrase or term.........
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It's not the definition of 'theft' that's in question here, it's the exclusions the insurers have written into their policy.
 
Ryan, just a quick note to say still thinking of you and your predicament, wishing you a quick and satisfactory resolution, I know what your kit means to you.

Bill
 
Well i can say i know how you feel as last year my house got broken into while me my wife and daughter where asleep and i got my D90 stolen along with sigma 70-200, 18-50 battery grip well all my kit, laptop, mobile phone 2 of and even my ciggies.

I never seen anything back and well my insurance would only pay for the laptop and mobiles(they told me my camera kit was not covered but i'll not get into this).

Worst thing was i had every single picture of my daughter from day one on the laptop.

Well i now had to buy second hand kit and just starting to get it built back up. I now have proper insurance on my house and an alarm.

And i also had two german shepherds in the house when they broke in.




Well i hope you have more luck than me and i will keep an eye out for anything i see.


I will add you should maybe check the likes of cash convertors as it might be junkies out for a quick sale(well this is what the police told me)


All the best.
 
A bigger question for me is why an insurance company would only cover violent and forcefull entry, most burglaries probably don't come under that, burglers are a crafty bunch of scrotes, they will sneak in rather than smash the place up and make a noise, most will get in through poorly securied windows or break a window with a gently tap rather than hurl a brick though it, or pick a lock if they can. Not much point in theft insurance that only covers a minority of cases.
We got broken into earlier this year, they stoll some stuff and smashed the place up the insurance would only pay for the theft or the damage not both, it seems burglares and not supposed to do any damage. Pity nobody told them that.
 
swanseamale47 said:
burglers are a crafty bunch of scrotes, they will sneak in rather than smash the place up and make a noise, most will get in through poorly securied windows or break a window with a gently tap rather than hurl a brick though it, or pick a lock if they can.
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I would have thought if a burglar broke a window, regardless of how quietly they did it, it could be classed as "violent or forceful". The reasoning for that wording seems to be (imho anyway) to distinguish a break-in from a situation where a householder has, say, left the back door unlocked and the thief just wanders in and helps themself.
 
Thats not the difination used here though is it, theres no suggestion a door was left open but because the thief didn't smash their way in the insurance seem reluctant to pay out.
And personally I wouldn't call climbing in through an open window or gently breaking a window violent.
 
There is the aspect of contributory negligence though.

A householder will be expected to make sure the home is secure (so leaving a window wide-open might be a problem). There's also a chain of causation here to consider - ie. on the basis that the house was secure, could the fact that a set of car-keys being taken resulted in someone using a 'Home' address on SatNav to then locate and enter a house be classed as something reasonable to expect. There might well be case law here.
 
swanseamale47 said:
And personally I wouldn't call climbing in through an open window or gently breaking a window violent.
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Maybe not, in which case it would be "forceful" ;)

Ryan, whatever the insurance company come up with as an excuse don't take no for an answer, if necessary take it to the insurance ombudsman.
 
It's quite simple really, limiting theft claims to 'violent and forceful' entry limits the insurers risk. The less risk the insurer is exposed to the lower the premium they can charge to cover that risk.

Or course breaking a window or forcing a lock will constitute 'violent and forceful' entry, whether they do it quietly or make a racket when they do it is irrelevant. Climbing through an open window or opening an unlocked door wouldn't be covered under the above exclusion.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
Maybe not, in which case it would be "forceful" ;)

Ryan, whatever the insurance company come up with as an excuse don't take no for an answer, if necessary take it to the insurance ombudsman.
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Just came back to the office today for the first time. Turns out my friend and colleague Louise has a brother who is an insurance ombudsman in London. That might be useful :)

The office had done a collection for me while I was away - a total surprise. They gave me a bottle of Jack Daniels and a Jessops gift card for £45.00. The kindness of people never ceases to amaze me. :love:

The Loss Adjustor should be calling any time now so I'll update further soon.

R
 
ryanyboy said:
Just came back to the office today for the first time. Turns out my friend and colleague Louise has a brother who is an insurance ombudsman in London. That might be useful :)

The office had done a collection for me while I was away - a total surprise. They gave me a bottle of Jack Daniels and a Jessops gift card for £45.00. The kindness of people never ceases to amaze me. :love:

The Loss Adjustor should be calling any time now so I'll update further soon.

R
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Been reading over this dreadfull event again and was just about to suggest the Insurance Ombudsman, but if you can get personal contact with one all the better.
Other thing to consider is your local CAB to see what they make of the situation in respect of your insurance policy being an unfair contract in respect of what it excludes.

Good luck Ryan.
 
Just read this mate

I know how you feel (maybe not to the same extent) as i have been victim to 3 thefts in less then 3 years.

1 was kinda our fault, left laptop in the living room, someone see's it, screens the house for a bit, goes around the back, brakes window, steals laptop, charger and a brand new pair of trainers (these were in a massive back, so perfect for the laptop to go in). Insurance paid out, but lost photos and files that will never be replaced :( (Yes, should have backed up, but was just a personal laptop that belonged to the wife)

The next was our bikes stolen from the shed. Insurance didnt want to pay out as the bikes were old enough that we hadnt kept the receipts. My mrs got on the phone after stewing on it, they paid out.

Finally, and most recent (just before my wedding this year) i had my bike nicked from outside my work by one of the temps. Police wouldnt do anything as even though there was CCTV, it wasnt "conclusive" enough for them to convict the guy, even though we knew who it was. This time, not so much of a problem with the insurance company, paid out with no problems at all.

I hope you get everything sorted out mate, its one hell of a set of kit to lose. We take out insurance to cover our loses and then they try and screw us over in every way possible. Bad times!
 
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