The end of Photoshop CS

neil_g said:
im on holiday this week so dont have access to the number but im pretty sure over 3 years the cloud worked out cheaper per seat than buying CS suite and upgrades.

but even for home users, £17.50/month for a single CS app is easier to stomach/budget for than photoshop cs6 at £600 outright for example.
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I agree.
And as a student I can get the whole suite for £15.88, hooray! ;)
 
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WillNicholls said:
This way you have the latest versions though.
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There won't be any new versions though, at least not in the way we've been used to. This isn't Photoshop CC1 and there isn't going to be a CC2. In a stroke, because they have a monopoly, they've taken all commercial pressure off themselves to innovate. Sure there will be periodic updates with minor tweaks but I bet we see less of the killer features, like content aware or the new camera shake reduction, over the next few years.

In any event, you could always buy the latest versions under the old system. This way they're just not giving you the choice of whether or not to upgrade. By the time CS6 is obsolete you'll be trapped into paying the same (or more) every year as you were before... Just without the killer features that used to make the new versions so tempting.

Sure adobe can price it how they want, they have a monopoly after all... I just don't see how it can be good for the consumer.
 
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Have a dig about Adobe were giving away cs2 for free
 
Just thought I'd resurrect this as I looked in at Adobe's Facebook page this evening. The anti CC venting doesn't seem to be losing any momentum... it must be driving Adobe nuts!
 
Flashman said:
Just thought I'd resurrect this as I looked in at Adobe's Facebook page this evening. The anti CC venting doesn't seem to be losing any momentum... it must be driving Adobe nuts!
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They couldn't give a flying fig, not as long as people keep paying for CC. The bleaters can bleat and whine as much as they like, if enough people pay for it then Adobe really couldn't care less about the losers.
 
Merluza said:
And when you stop paying it 's all gone, in an instant.
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hopefully I will be using photoshop every single day and getting paid to use it for the rest of my life, so therefore I don't mind subscribing for ever, also CC means I have access to apps I probably wouldn't pay for but might come in handy, like dreamweaver etc

let's be honest here the people complaining are pirates and hobbyists- pro's who use the software daily much prefer the 'always up to date' nature of subscription services

and I like that adobe has a monopoly, it means when I check into any design agency anywhere, chances are they're using adobe, so it means I know exactly what i'm doing on their system- rather than finding myself looking at some software i've no idea how to use

as for the updates- call me a pessimist but I really don't see what else can be done with photoshop that would be enough of a change for a cs7, call me myopic but I think adobe has run out of ideas and small incremental changes/usability tweaks are all that is left for photoshop, just my opinion

edit: also I think adobe is trying to keep people within lightroom and make photoshop less relevant for anyone that's not a power user.
 
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mrjames said:
let's be honest here the people complaining are pirates and hobbyists- pro's who use the software daily much prefer the 'always up to date' nature of subscription services
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Really? Who elected you to speak on my behalf? :)

I object on principle. I don't need the whole damned suite... yet I have to pay £20 a month for one application, which compared to the whole suite, is a rip off. Yeah, I'll get that cash back, and it's not even a lot of money.... it's the principle.

I'm trialling CC now... and to be honest... meh

I think I'll be keeping CS6 for a while yet. I don't like being Adobe's bitch, and that's all this is about. Adobe trying to spread their income out in a more manageable manner instead of all in one big lump at upgrade time. Only idiots upgrade automatically. I went from CS4 straight to CS6 because there was nothing whatsoever that made 5 worthwhile to me.
 
mrjames said:
let's be honest here the people complaining are pirates and hobbyists- pro's who use the software daily much prefer the 'always up to date' nature of subscription services
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I think it's a bit insulting to hobbyists to lump them together with pirates... Nevertheless, in any event, the pirates aren't complaining as they cracked CC and made it available within a day of launch apparently... no change there then! Incidentally, you really don't speak for all pro's who use the software daily, I'm a six day a week working professional and I certainly don't prefer subscription services and I know I'm far from alone. What's new about the 'always up to date' bit anyway, they aren't going to release updates any more frequently than they did previously are they... I always kept my CS products up to date. :shrug:

mrjames said:
and I like that adobe has a monopoly, it means when I check into any design agency anywhere, chances are they're using adobe, so it means I know exactly what i'm doing on their system- rather than finding myself looking at some software i've no idea how to use
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When, in the whole history of ever, has a monopoly been good for the consumer? Imagine how rubbish smartphones would be if Android & Apple didn't constantly try and out'smart' each other... or Windows PC/ Mac... or XBox/Playstation... or Ferrari/Lamborghini... or... well you get the point. They don't even have any sort of regulator... There's no pressure on Adobe to keep the pricing competitive (wait and see how much the subscription price has gone up relative to inflation in five years time) and absolutely no commercial pressure for them to innovate to keep people from jumping ship to a rival.

mrjames said:
as for the updates- call me a pessimist but I really don't see what else can be done with photoshop that would be enough of a change for a cs7, call me myopic but I think adobe has run out of ideas and small incremental changes/usability tweaks are all that is left for photoshop, just my opinion
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You're a pessimist! :p
There's a massive amount they could do with Photoshop if they wanted (or needed) to. When I'm in Photoshop I spend half my time launching plugins which do individual jobs better than Photoshop. The u-point tech in Nik products for example, the ease of use of Viveza, the numerous noise reduction plugins that are better than Photoshop, the four contrast filters in Color efex pro, the accuracy of masking with Mask Pro... it goes on for ever! It's just a shame that I still need Photoshop for the basics, but it could be so much better. Just because Adobe has adopted a business model that allows them to slash their development budgets doesn't mean that there aren't things they could do.
 
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Microsoft tried something like this recently with gaming and had the attitude get over it, they actually said it to their customers.

Now they have done a complete u turn and said they have listened to their customers needs.....yea right, people were voting with their wallets and going to Sony and that was the only reason for a change of mind.

It's a shame Adobe does not have as big as nemesis as Sony in their field.
 
craftysnapper said:
It's a shame Adobe does not have as big as nemesis as Sony in their field.
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I keep seeing header adverts for Corel on TP - offering Adobe users special rates to avoid CC.
 
Flashman said:
Imagine how rubbish smartphones would be if Android & Apple didn't constantly try and out'smart' each other...
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I hate that half my friends have android and half have iphones, the imcompatibility, the fact I have no idea how to use an android if I borrow my friends phone

also look at wacom, they have the monopoly on graphics tablets- no competition but they only release a new product when there's a genuine real improvement- they're innovating against themselves, the main competitor to the intuous 5, is the intuous 4 and 3

for what it's worth I still use an intuous 3, and still use cs5- and yes I suppose I am slightly trolling...

and I think updates will come sooner, now they don't have to wait for the yearly launch they can release updates as soon as they want

You're a pessimist! :p
There's a massive amount they could do with Photoshop if they wanted (or needed) to. When I'm in Photoshop I spend half my time launching plugins which do individual jobs better than Photoshop. The u-point tech in Nik products for example, the ease of use of Viveza, the numerous noise reduction plugins that are better than Photoshop, the four contrast filters in Color efex pro, the accuracy of masking with Mask Pro... it goes on for ever! It's just a shame that I still need Photoshop for the basics, but it could be so much better. Just because Adobe has adopted a business model that allows them to slash their development budgets doesn't mean that there aren't things they could do.
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If I was adobe, I think i'd cut the price of the software, focus on core programming and have no issue in leaving plug in developers to do the rest
 
Flashman said:
I think it's a bit insulting to hobbyists to lump them together with pirates... Nevertheless, in any event, the pirates aren't complaining as they cracked CC and made it available within a day of launch apparently... no change there then! Incidentally, you really don't speak for all pro's who use the software daily, I'm a six day a week working professional and I certainly don't prefer subscription services and I know I'm far from alone. What's new about the 'always up to date' bit anyway, they aren't going to release updates any more frequently than they did previously are they... I always kept my CS products up to date. :shrug:


When, in the whole history of ever, has a monopoly been good for the consumer? Imagine how rubbish smartphones would be if Android & Apple didn't constantly try and out'smart' each other... or Windows PC/ Mac... or XBox/Playstation... or Ferrari/Lamborghini... or... well you get the point. They don't even have any sort of regulator... There's no pressure on Adobe to keep the pricing competitive (wait and see how much the subscription price has gone up relative to inflation in five years time) and absolutely no commercial pressure for them to innovate to keep people from jumping ship to a rival.



You're a pessimist! :p
There's a massive amount they could do with Photoshop if they wanted (or needed) to. When I'm in Photoshop I spend half my time launching plugins which do individual jobs better than Photoshop. The u-point tech in Nik products for example, the ease of use of Viveza, the numerous noise reduction plugins that are better than Photoshop, the four contrast filters in Color efex pro, the accuracy of masking with Mask Pro... it goes on for ever! It's just a shame that I still need Photoshop for the basics, but it could be so much better. Just because Adobe has adopted a business model that allows them to slash their development budgets doesn't mean that there aren't things they could do.
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I agree 100% with this.
Even if a I'm only a humble hobbyist, I still pay full price to use the software. Pro's will be able to hide any business cost increases in their prices and as pretty much everyone will be in the same boat, the consumer will have no alternatives to the small increases. I on the other hand will have to fork out a monthly fee for my hobby with no money coming back in. For that reason I'll be sticking with CS5. :thumbsdown:
 
I'm against a subscription model for any software, because has has been said, you may be locked in (so far) into needing the to subscribe to have access to certain types of files you have made/created.

It could stifle innovation within their company as there is no hard deadlines to get new features ready in a timely manner, and indeed to get any new features at all. :shrug: And even with the hard deadline of the release of the Creative Cloud, some features are not ready. :bonk: Now that they have missed the release date, will there be the same impetus to get the features finished? :thinking: Only Adobe can answer that.

Over the next couple of days there is a webcast on Creativelive by Lesa Snider about Adobe Creative Cloud. (but mainly Photoshop CC) Yesterday's webcast is being repeated at the moment, and will be live from 5pm today.

It was interesting to see her go through the options available and some of the new CC only features. It looked like a real benefit to people who use multiple Adobe products (ignoring the access to files after the end of subscription which Lesa Snider seemed to do) There are options to collaborate, and sync files and settings from different computers.

For anyone who uses (used) just Photoshop she said that the CC probably wasn't a good idea, and indeed she said most Photographers should only be using Lightroom and/or Elements because they probably don't use all the features. :eek: I found that very surprising seeing as she earns a lot of her money (I would assume) from people using Photoshop, by watching her courses like the one on Creativelive and her books.

She was obviously very positive about the benefits of the CC, but from the bits that I saw didn't really address the negatives about it. :thinking: And maybe she echo's the Adobe stance, 'if you don't want to pay our subscription buy Lightroom and/or Elements'. :thinking: It was a casual 'Elements can't do some things as good as Photoshop, but then most don't use what is missing' attitude. :bang:
 
the more I think about it the more I think that adobe are leaving the consumer market, and focussing on the professional market with CC

fully willing to allow apple (who now focus more on the consumer market rather than the pro market) to come out with their own version of photoshop (seriously the more i think about this the more sense it makes), or to just let coral draw take over at the consumer level

kind of like how amd and intel used to fight for supremacy, now intel is the unquestionable performance king where as amd is the value king
 
I'll stick with CS3 for pixel-level editing for now, and just upgrade LR as and when it goes out on a deal price.
 
hollis_f said:
Yeah, because PSE is obviously aimed at pros. :shrug:
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I mean with CS/CC

adobe knows most consumer users of CS6 users don't use/need all the features, so will probably drop down to PSE.

and now that lightroom is so powerful, photographers might not even bother shelling out £600 for photoshop, hence why they make the price 'lower' for a monthly subscription, to keep people using photoshop


only adobe knows what's going on behind closed doors, so who knows what they're up to and going to bring out in the future

also, markets change, software companies change, businesses get screwed up and hobbies get shattered on a daily bases by changes out with their control- deal with it
 
They're obviously going after the business/pro market, because that is where the (consistent) money is. That is where companies depend on their software, and so are in effect locked in.

The price at the moment would probably not be a problem, and indeed I heard that paying by subscription can be written of immediately for Tax, but buying the software could only be written off over time as it depreciated. That was someone talking about American Tax, and I don't know whether it is the same here. :shrug:

Apparently if you use more than 2.5 of their programs it works out better to subscribe. Most Photographers would use Photoshop and maybe Lightroom and not much else, so it may not work out better. :shrug:

They have now got to get the balance of raising prices over time with continuous new features, but unless they become too greedy, they have their solid paying userbase. Business's will be very reluctant to change if they don't get out know imho.

Now that they are seeming to move away from the average consumer, how they grow in any meaningful way is difficult to see once all the people who have decided not to subscribe don't. :shrug: For a lot of people what is new on offer in Photosop CC may not be tempting to a lot of current CS* users. They will have to make Elements more attractive, without being too close to Photoshop. They will probably raise the price as they do it too.

I can't see schools going for the CC option. :shake: Buying is very different to subscribing. And software updates could be problematic, as the schools I've been in recently have the internet access locked down quite tight. One school said even putting Picasa on their computers was a no no :shake: for some reason to do with internet access. They had CS5 on the computers, but I had to ask for them to get updated because they hadn't been updated for the last update of ACR for CS5. :eek: :bonk:

I can see the benefits of the subscription model if you are a user of multiple Adobe programs, but it always pops into my head, what happens when you stop paying? :shrug: Depending on the type of work, and how you save it, you could be left with files you can't access. :bang:

At some point in the future though the OS you are using may not run the the Photoshop you have. 32bit XP users aren't able to run CS6, and one would assume, the Creative Cloud for example. Hopefully at that point there are cheap alternatives with similar functionality available. ;)
 
Pookeyhead said:
I'm trialling CC now... and to be honest... meh
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I had a first try with CC yesterday too... and yeah... meh!

The 'Shake Reduction' doesn't seem as magical as I'd hoped (certainly nothing like as good as it looked when they teased it last year), the new Smart Sharpen still won't tempt me away from Nik Sharpener Pro 3 and... well that's about it really, there doesn't seem to be much more worth mentioning :shrug:

If this was CS7 I wouldn't bother. I can only think they must be holding some features back to roll out over coming months to pretend they're really great at supporting CC subscribers... Either that or they really don't give a toss about their users. Probably both.
 
One of the features I saw was the Camera Raw filter which looked handy. I think the naming of it may confuse some. Yes, there is a way to do something similar by opening a Jpeg in Camera Raw, processing or not, and then opening as a Smart Object, which would give you the option to go back to Camera Raw at any time if needed. But you couldn't do it half way through any editing.

The upright straighten tool in Lightroom 5 and Camera Raw CC looks interesting.

Here's a roundup of the the new features. One of them, the Isolate Layers option was available in CS6 I think. :thinking: Unless they have changed it in some way. And I wouldn't consider just a refinement as a new feature. :shake:

The new upsizing algorithm could be handy, but then I don't upsize that often. :shrug:

Overall there is nothing I think 'I'm' missing out on. :shake: And unless they come out with must have features, they will not attract average consumers to sign up if they already have editing software of some type they are happy with. Maybe they have given up on that market, but they also have to attract business users with new features too. :shrug: Although some business's will need their software just to be on a level playing field with competitors. :shrug:
 
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Anybody mentioned capital vs revenue yet?

If I pay £1,500 for master suite (or whatever they call it) that's a capital expenditure which needs offsetting and depreciating and stuff. If I pay £50 a month for a professional subscription then that's a revenue expenditure that can be immediately (and fully) offset against income.

I've paid Adobe plenty over the past 10 years. Every 18 months there's a new version of both PS and LR and I generally buy all versions of LR and even versions of PS which works out at about £100 a year. But it seems they now want £600 a year for lots of apps I don't need and that seems a lot. Even just paying for Photoshop puts the price at about £210 a year vs the old style £150 every 18 months.

It's not the concept I object to. It's the cost.
 
JonathanRyan said:
Anybody mentioned capital vs revenue yet?

If I pay £1,500 for master suite (or whatever they call it) that's a capital expenditure which needs offsetting and depreciating and stuff. If I pay £50 a month for a professional subscription then that's a revenue expenditure that can be immediately (and fully) offset against income.
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I mentioned something similar earlier, but I didn't know whether it applied here.

JonathanRyan said:
I've paid Adobe plenty over the past 10 years. Every 18 months there's a new version of both PS and LR and I generally buy all versions of LR and even versions of PS which works out at about £100 a year. But it seems they now want £600 a year for lots of apps I don't need and that seems a lot. Even just paying for Photoshop puts the price at about £210 a year vs the old style £150 every 18 months.

It's not the concept I object to. It's the cost.
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If you subscribe to the whole package, you get Lightroom too I think, so for people who by both it could make it worthwhile. I don't know if you retain Lightroom should you stop subscribing, and of course may still leave you with the possibility of unusable files should you stop subscribing. ;)
 
JohnN said:
Have a dig about Adobe were giving away cs2 for free
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No they weren't. The licence required you to own a copy before downloading.

Adobe have lost the pro market here. There's no way a large news agency can use any software that has a cloud element.
 
redhed17 said:
If you subscribe to the whole package, you get Lightroom too I think, so for people who by both it could make it worthwhile.
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PS is about £170 per 18 months (if you buy every version). LR comes out more sporadically but costs less - figure £50 a year.

So at the moment my Adobe tax is about £110 a year if I buy every version of both. (Though remember I once bought full versions which cost £700 or so one off cost.)

With CC, I can rent Photoshop alone for £210 a year and buy LR for £50 or so or everything including LR for £600. (That's disregarding the one off one year discount)

Either way, for most photographers, Adobe just redefined inflation.
 
Anyone read anything which says when they'll stop offering the upgrade from CS5 to CS6? I'm a CS5 user, and have no intention of moving to the cloud just yet. I use LR for 90% of my PP like many photographers, but do use PS for cloning/content aware/watermarking - not things I can do with just a copy of LR. It seems if you want a perpetual licence software which will continue to receive ACR support, you need to upgrade to CS6. Its currently available at £188. I don't really need it right now, but I'll get it if the upgrade is going to end this year sometime...
 
barratt1988 said:
I think with them moving to rented licenses there going to finish themselves off. Question is what will people move to instead?
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Some will move to Gimp But as yet they do not have "adjustment layers", which is a killer for me. In other respects it is the real deal and free.

But they will get there........:)
 
My purposes are non-commercial, and I view the cloud pricing as being unaffordable (or at least far out of proportion in my overall budget) - full stop.

However I value 16-bit editing, adjustment layers, cmyk ...

I began with PS4 and dropped out of the upgrade path at CS2. Thus I must persist with that (which does all I need) as long as I have an OS that will run it ...
 
hollis_f said:
Those who don't need the full power of PS will move to LR and PSE.
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PSE still doesn't support 16bit properly and LR has its own draw backs. Id say most people with CS only use 10% of it but that's the important 10%
 
barratt1988 said:
PSE still doesn't support 16bit properly and LR has its own draw backs. Id say most people with CS only use 10% of it but that's the important 10%
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I think that is exactly right.

PSE leaves off where serious photography starts.
 
I think I've mentioned it already in this thread, but I'm of the opposite opinion - as someone that budgets monthly dealing with the £18 is easier than a single huge layout. I'm not at the point where I feel I need Photoshop just yet, but as soon as I feel I need it (or want it enough to add to my pictures) then I'll probably sign up.
 
Number45 said:
I think I've mentioned it already in this thread, but I'm of the opposite opinion - as someone that budgets monthly dealing with the £18 is easier than a single huge layout. I'm not at the point where I feel I need Photoshop just yet, but as soon as I feel I need it (or want it enough to add to my pictures) then I'll probably sign up.
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New users are winners... for the first couple of years or so at least. As you say, £18 a month is a lot more attractive than a one off outlay of £600 odd. Loyal existing owners, who have already spent thousands with Adobe over the years, aren't so happy with a token first year discount worth in the region of a paltry £100.

We won't really know the true intentions of Adobe or the full effect of this business model for a few years. My bet is that in five years time we'll not have seen nearly as much development or as many new features as we would have had under the old perpetual license system... and I bet we'll be paying a lot more than £18 a month for the privilege too. Then we'll all be losers.
 
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