The Formula 1 / IndyCar Thread

If Mercedes are successful in the appeal where do we go from here, not possible to determine that Max wouldn’t have caught Lewis with backmarkers in the way, unlikely but never the less, no crystal ball here.
 
Nod said:
I can see that Mercedes might have a genuine reason for an appeal but I hope they let the result stand (even though I was hoping for an LH win!)

Congratulations to MV. Not forgetting congrats to Mercedes on the WCC!
Click to expand...

Mikesphotaes said:
Disgraceful decisions all to see a one lap of racing!
Click to expand...

Agree.

To reverse the decision not to allow the lapped cars to pass was wrong and this was made even worse by the decision to allow only some of the lapped cars to pass.

It seems the rules say the safety car goes in the lap after ALL the lapped cars have passed.

Having said that I'm not sure what can be done unless it could be proved(which might be doubtful) the race would have finished under the safety car if all lapped cars had been allowed to pass.

Before the race all the talk was about hoping the two contenders did not mess up and ruin the race but it appears the ruling body of Formula 1 managed to ruin it themselves, all to as Mike has said give one lap of racing .

Dave
 
It will always be seen as a lucky win for Max. LH and Mercedes were quickest throughout the race until the organisers handed the race to Max. I thought that LH was gracious in the circumstances. I doubt that Max would have been as well behaved in a reverse situation. However, it would not be satisfactory if the breach of rules was upheld and LH awarded the race now. It was screwed up and cannot be fixed now.

Dave
 
This one could run on.

For me, not the way I like to see a championship decided. I'm a Hamilton fan but all credit to Max as well for the year he has put in.

I don't think the rules were applied properly in the end, I feel all lapped cars should've gone through. I do believe the result will stand though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nod
With neither driver or team being at fault for anything that took place from the incident, that caused the safety car until the chequered flag, it would be unfair to change the result.

Mike should, however, go away and take a long hard look at himself and decide if he should continue in the role he has.
 
A quick look at the relevant regulation suggests that ALL the lapped cars should have unlapped themselves before the safety car pulled off and normal racing could resume. Such a shame that an incident like that has marred the final race of what has been an interesting season.
 
Nod said:
Such a shame that an incident like that has marred the final race of what has been an interesting season.
Click to expand...

Im sure the (possibly misguided) intention was to give a race to the finish, rather than have the race finish under a safety car. FWIW I disagree with that decision but I think now having the result changed would make a mockery of a great season
 
As an impartial casual observer, I was happy to see it not end as a procession behind the safety car.

I really don't think the teams should be allowed to hassle the officials during the race.
 
simon ess said:
As an impartial casual observer, I was happy to see it not end as a procession behind the safety car.

I really don't think the teams should be allowed to hassle the officials during the race.
Click to expand...

But as so many have stated above, asking questions after the finish was pointless. A very big cock up to what has been one of the most competitive seasons on record, even it was just two horses in the race.
 
I think this race was ruined for various reasons and I think both Max and Lewis were very gracious at the end in the interviews.
At the seventh corner, had Lewis not pulled to the right and gone straight on, then Max would have crashed into him, so as for Lewis gaining an advantage, would the alternative have been better?
Safety cars and virtual safety cars - There are two things I do not agree with, pitting during a safety car and the bunching. I do not think there should be any pit stops allowed during a safety car and I think the drivers should have to maintain the same order and gaps that were present immediately before the safety car.
I want to see good, clean, exciting racing, I don't want to see some novelty, wacky races freak show.
I think the decisions made at the end by FIA were ridiculous and broke the rules which were already in place.
 
Dave Canon said:
If there was to have been a final racing lap, Max should have started 12 seconds behind LH which would have at put them back to the situation before the Safety car.

Dave
Click to expand...
That is the unfairness of a safety car
The protests are about how much Micheal masi has discreation over the written rules
The rule is prity clear
48-12 If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message "LAPPED CARS MAY NOW OVERTAKE" has been sent to all teams via the official messaging system, any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car. This will only apply to cars that were lapped at the time they crossed the Line at the end of the lap during which they crossed the first Safety Car line for the second time after the safety car was deployed. Having overtaken the cars on the lead lap and the safety car these cars should then proceed around the track at an appropriate speed, without overtaking, and make every effort to take up position at the back of the line of cars behind the safety car. Whilst they are overtaking, and in order to ensure this may be carried out safely, the cars on the lead lap must always stay on the racing line unless deviating from it is unavoidable. Unless the clerk of the course considers the presence of the safety car is still necessary, once the last lapped car has passed the leader the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap. If the clerk of the course considers track conditions are unsuitable for overtaking the message "OVERTAKING WILL NOT BE PERMITTED" will be sent to all teams via the official messaging system.
 
Last edited:
Dave Canon said:
If there was to have been a final racing lap, Max should have started 12 seconds behind LH which would have at put them back to the situation before the Safety car.

Dave
Click to expand...
This is what I think too.....not that it makes any difference.
 
Very happy with the result.

Re: Safety car, I would not want to see a race affected by safety car, so surely one option is that SC laps do not count - a bit like stoppage time in football?

I thought Hamilton should have bene penalised for running wide at start as Jos was the previous race?
 
cambsno said:
Very happy with the result.

Re: Safety car, I would not want to see a race affected by safety car, so surely one option is that SC laps do not count - a bit like stoppage time in football?

I thought Hamilton should have bene penalised for running wide at start as Jos was the previous race?
Click to expand...

Jos should have been disqualified for driving his son’s car.
 
I'm gutted, I so wanted Lewis to get his 8th championship.

However, I hope the result stands for the sake of F1.
 
mercedes protests rejected Max is the champion unless mercedes go higher
 
Dale. said:
they are...........
Click to expand...
only to be expected
Ive read they have only whilst thursday so the crowning ceremany can go ahead
 
Last edited:
simon ess said:
Sore losers?
Click to expand...


If that were the case and to be fair, this could be said of Red Bull too, they would be doing the same if it were the other way around. It is what it is. Do I condone it? No.

This does bother me that it's what F1 is becoming, more of a lottery and down to steward's decisions.

It's not racing anymore.

It's not the result I wanted butI am glad though that the result stands, I wouldn't want to see it decided over an office table.
 
Dale. said:
If that were the case and to be fair, this could be said of Red Bull too, they would be doing the same if it were the other way around. It is what it is. Do I condone it? No.

This does bother me that it's what F1 is becoming, more of a lottery and down to steward's decisions.

It's not racing anymore.

It's not the result I wanted butI am glad though that the result stands, I wouldn't want to see it decided over an office table.
Click to expand...
its gone higher so its still in flux
 
People can shout and bawl about rules if the rules are manipulated to suit the "show" but not so loud when the rules are clear and consistantly adhered
then its all fair. If its not in the rules its legal If its outside the rules its illegal Not this hotpotch we have now
 
fuzzyedges said:
People can shout and bawl about rules if the rules are manipulated to suit the "show" but not so loud when the rules are clear and consistantly adhered
then its all fair. If its not in the rules its legal If its outside the rules its illegal Not this hotpotch we have now
Click to expand...
Too many fuzzy edges.... :exit:
 
Max deserves to be champion, what happened yesterday was not his fault, or Red Bull, they played a couple of very good strategic decisions, and let's not take away how much of an impact Checo had on the outcome.

Lewis and Max are both amazing drivers and both very deserving champions, obviously a championship isn't won in one race and they've both been consistently quick all season.

Fair play to Lewis and his father for congratulating Max and his team / family, if I'm honest I don't think it would have been the same had the result been different.
Our house was split, me and my 2 boys were shouting for Max and my wife wanted Lewis to win, either way all 4 of us had our hearts beating out of our chests for that final lap. :)
 
I do not believe that the Race Director will keep his job having made so many mistakes. It would have been fine if Max had successfully use his pole position to get ahead and stay ahead of Lewis and win the race but he did not and was only made the winner by the race director changing the rules in a way that fixed the outcome. It will not be just Mercedes that will press the matter as other teams will want a Race Director they they can rely on. It ruined the season in that we do not know who would have won had the race been according to the existing Rules. Had the Race Director stuck to his initial ruling that the race should restart without any unlapping which was within his powers, it would have been interesting to see if Max could have passed 3 back markers and Lewis in one lap. Lewis had already lost time passing these so why should Max have had them removed from the track, particularly given that one was Olonso who is never easy to pass.

Will have to wait till next season now and we do not know the relative speeds of the new cars yet. I would think it will be hard for LH to put as much into next season knowing that F1 is no longer fair.

Dave
 
Hanley said:
Max deserves to be champion........
Click to expand...
I don't understand this comment, and I noticed the BBC said something similar on their website. Verstappen couldn't get close to Hamilton throughout the whole race and even Horner said it would 'take a miracle' for him to win. He was never going to win the race without the safety car or Hamiltons car having a mechanical breakdown. So no, imo, he didn't deserve to win, when he was comprehensively beaten on the track. Still after saying that, Mercedes need to drop any further appeals and be as gracious in losing as Lewis was. Can't help but wonder though if Verstappen would have been so gracious if it had been the other way round.
 
Last edited:
jakeblu said:
I don't understand this comment, and I noticed the BBC said something similar on their website. Verstappen couldn't get close to Hamilton throughout the whole race and even Horner said it would 'take a miracle' for him to win. He was never going to win the race without the safety car or Hamiltons car having a mechanical breakdown. So no, imo, he didn't deserve to win, when he was comprehensively beaten on the track. Still after saying that, Mercedes need to drop any further appeals and be as gracious in losing as Lewis was. Can't help but wonder though if Verstappen would have been so gracious if it had been the other way round.
Click to expand...
To be fair how many times has LH benefited from the safety car, quite a few, and in my opinion max does deserve to be champion, the Mere is clearly quicker and yet he still pushed LH to the absolute limit.

I agree with you, MV wouldn't have been as graceful I don't think, which would have been disappointing.
 
Hanley said:
To be fair how many times has LH benefited from the safety car, quite a few, and in my opinion max does deserve to be champion, the Mere is clearly quicker and yet he still pushed LH to the absolute limit.

I agree with you, MV wouldn't have been as graceful I don't think, which would have been disappointing.
Click to expand...
The only time Max pushed Lewis, was when Perez was holding Lewis up, by going 4 seconds a lap slower than Max. Lewis started better on medium tyres and built up a fair lead over Max who had soft tyres, then he did exactly the same thing after the first tyre change.
The only reason Max was faster after the safety car, was because he was on new softs and Lewis was on a pair of hards which had done over 40 laps.
 
I was going to post a picture of my genitals in a bowl of custard but that wouldn't be fair on anyone, I'll leave this instead.

 
  • Like
Reactions: Nod
Just seen this and despite my opinion above, it made me chuckle!

56835.jpg
 
I'm sure we could disagree for days / weeks about what happened.
We can't really blame the drivers, they race whoever is front of them.

I expect there will be a change to the race officials next year.
 
Messy will be on crutches and will have his jaw wired? ;)
 
Chatting about this this morning.

I cannot see the result reversed!

However, the vacillation on the part of the race stewards & race director illustrated to me that where, as it seems in this case, the rule(s) are not clear cut and unambiguous "management" of the race end was in the hands of the administration.

From my poor knowledge, if it goes to a court of arbitration the only logical outcome will be a more transparent and clear rule to cover this races situation.

PS
IMHO they should not have allowed the lapped cars to unlap themselves....................rather, as they wanted a racing finish, the fairest was "SC in" and the race restarts as it was "position on track" before the SC came out! Yes, the bunching up caused by the crash & SC deployment would have given Max an advantage but his position would be the same as he was prior to the SC and the last lap or two(?) would have been "the race end" to satisfy most viewers.

PPS in regard to tighter rules.......................maybe just for such a closing laps situation i.e. if this had happened mid way in the race, whatever the post SC in & cars unlapping themselves the race between Lewis and Max would have had more time to develop with the finger wagging that we see now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top