The virus. PPE. Part 1

Status
Not open for further replies.
There's been a lot of criticism about allowing the Cheltenham Races to go ahead back in March.It's been linked to a spike in COVID-19 cases and deaths in that location. The same happened in Liverpool re the Champions League game that went ahead two days prior to the Cheltenham Meeting. I said on here, at the time that I expect there had been a bit of leaning-on or lobbying..not only by the those associated with or on behalf of the Racecourse but the Betting industry. 250,000 race-goers attended over the 4-day Meeting. Millions would have been lost had it not gone ahead. I also said (to my wife rather than on here) that what HMG will do is wait a couple of days after the finish of the Meeting and then call a halt to large gatherings so people may not think to associate it with the Races and so it was. Three days later,I think. The meeting finished on the Friday and the announcement on the banning announcement on following Tuesday/Wednesday.Tuesday,I think,

So..today it's been learnt that Baroness Dido Harding, who Boris Johnson has appointed to lead the track and trace operation is the Cheltenham Race Course Committee Director AND a Director of Racecourse Holdings Trust which later became Jockey Club Race Courses.She was appointed a member in 2017. The Jockey Club own the Cheltenham racecourse.

Is track and trace safe in her hands ? Well, she was the boss of Talk Talk when data of 4 million customers was stolen.

Should the COVID-19 operation now be called be 'track and race' ?? :) It would be funny if it wasn't all so serious.

Not enough to think that maybe, just maybe some strings were pulled,a little word here, a little word there ? Then we have this.
She is married to John Penrose MP who is Boris Johnson's 'Anti-corruption Champion.

You couldn't make it up,really..

However, decisions were influenced I firmly believe that the decision to allow Cheltenham Races to go ahead and the Liverpool v Atletico Madrid game despite a lot of media pressure not to do so and no doubt from scientists too cost lives. HMG is culpable.
 
JohnC6 said:
There's been a lot of criticism about allowing the Cheltenham Races to go ahead back in March.It's been linked to a spike in COVID-19 cases and deaths in that location. The same happened in Liverpool re the Champions League game that went ahead two days prior to the Cheltenham Meeting. I said on here, at the time that I expect there had been a bit of leaning-on or lobbying..not only by the those associated with or on behalf of the Racecourse but the Betting industry. 250,000 race-goers attended over the 4-day Meeting. Millions would have been lost had it not gone ahead. I also said (to my wife rather than on here) that what HMG will do is wait a couple of days after the finish of the Meeting and then call a halt to large gatherings so people may not think to associate it with the Races and so it was. Three days later,I think. The meeting finished on the Friday and the announcement on the banning announcement on following Tuesday/Wednesday.Tuesday,I think,

So..today it's been learnt that Baroness Dido Harding, who Boris Johnson has appointed to lead the track and trace operation is the Cheltenham Race Course Committee Director AND a Director of Racecourse Holdings Trust which later became Jockey Club Race Courses.She was appointed a member in 2017. The Jockey Club own the Cheltenham racecourse.

Is track and trace safe in her hands ? Well, she was the boss of Talk Talk when data of 4 million customers was stolen.

Should the COVID-19 operation now be called be 'track and race' ?? :) It would be funny if it wasn't all so serious.

Not enough to think that maybe, just maybe some strings were pulled,a little word here, a little word there ? Then we have this.
She is married to John Penrose MP who is Boris Johnson's 'Anti-corruption Champion.

You couldn't make it up,really..

However, decisions were influenced I firmly believe that the decision to allow Cheltenham Races to go ahead and the Liverpool v Atletico Madrid game despite a lot of media pressure not to do so and no doubt from scientists too cost lives. HMG is culpable.
Click to expand...

John, Dido Harding is perfect for the job because at TalkTalk she showed she was prepared to defend the indefensible, much the same as Johnson with Cummings :(.
 
Donnie said:
Completely useless unless they are impregnated with 70% alcohol, which as far as I am aware do not exist (other than medical sterets which are literally just less than 1 inch square!)
Click to expand...
We get alcohol soaked hard surface wipes in our hospital... They're bloody awful on the hands but they are >70% isopropyl
 
Guardian (above) states that scientists are claiming 8000 new infections a day and the R rate between 0.7 and 0. 9. It's too soon to ease up. That R1.0 will be achieved,I think. I heard on Radio Five-Live from a muslim caller that his family and friends were celebrating the end of Ramadan in his garden and the hitherto friendly neighbour called the police. They'd got on fine till then..Lol. Someone else called in to say they were organising a BBQ for family and friends.

We've been to Homebase and a nursery and they have good social-distancing measures.Homebase are using antibacterial hand gel on the trolley handles. I think many people are complying with that but quite a few aren't when away from controlled locations. I'm beginning to think that many people think the COVID has by-passed them and it's something that will affect someone else.

Being the cynic I suspect the easing was in the pipeline but not to be introduced now until the Dominic Cummings saga caused them so much grief. Maybe they think that being 'let out' will help erase the recent problems for them re DC. Of course we have the economic tsunami to hit us yet, despite the current hardships for people. The 2nd Quarter GDP numbers will be very bad... forecast is a 25% shrinkage. https://www.theguardian.com/busines...oretaste-of-worst-to-come-uk-economy-covid-19


Btw. I think Brazil, in particular, is heading for complete disaster.
 
hunnymonster said:
We get alcohol soaked hard surface wipes in our hospital... They're bloody awful on the hands but they are >70% isopropyl
Click to expand...
I was wondering about the Zeiss wipes I use to clean my lenses and phone. Can't find anything useful, except some very low isoprop percentages by weight in various safety data sheets that I think must refer to the whole wipe rather than what they soak it in. The box only seems concerned with the sensitising risk from the preservatives. By the smell, speed of drying and the flammable symbol on the packet, the percentage must be quite high.
 
Retune said:
I was wondering about the Zeiss wipes I use to clean my lenses and phone. Can't find anything useful, except some very low isoprop percentages by weight in various safety data sheets that I think must refer to the whole wipe rather than what they soak it in. The box only seems concerned with the sensitising risk from the preservatives. By the smell, speed of drying and the flammable symbol on the packet, the percentage must be quite high.
Click to expand...
Come on now, I think you should soak a thousand or so of them in water and check the specific gravity. We await the answer, don’t keep us in suspense :).
 
Fuji Dave said:
Fantastic news, Mums swab results came back negative we are all over the moon.
Click to expand...
Great! But get on PPE case about the carers, the virus hasn’t gone away :(.
 
JohnC6 said:
Being the cynic I suspect the easing was in the pipeline but not to be introduced now until the Dominic Cummings saga caused them so much grief. Maybe they think that being 'let out' will help erase the recent problems for them re DC.
Click to expand...

TBH I'm almost certain this is to make people feel less down on DC. Take away the frustration and a major driver for protest is neutralised.
 
Fuji Dave said:
Fantastic news, Mums swab results came back negative we are all over the moon.
Click to expand...

I'd get an X-T4 if I were you, Dave. Just to celebrate the good news!!! ;)
 
JohnC6 said:
Guardian (above) states that scientists are claiming 8000 new infections a day and the R rate between 0.7 and 0. 9. It's too soon to ease up. That R1.0 will be achieved,I think. I heard on Radio Five-Live from a muslim caller that his family and friends were celebrating the end of Ramadan in his garden and the hitherto friendly neighbour called the police. They'd got on fine till then..Lol. Someone else called in to say they were organising a BBQ for family and friends.

We've been to Homebase and a nursery and they have good social-distancing measures.Homebase are using antibacterial hand gel on the trolley handles. I think many people are complying with that but quite a few aren't when away from controlled locations. I'm beginning to think that many people think the COVID has by-passed them and it's something that will affect someone else.

Being the cynic I suspect the easing was in the pipeline but not to be introduced now until the Dominic Cummings saga caused them so much grief. Maybe they think that being 'let out' will help erase the recent problems for them re DC. Of course we have the economic tsunami to hit us yet, despite the current hardships for people. The 2nd Quarter GDP numbers will be very bad... forecast is a 25% shrinkage. https://www.theguardian.com/busines...oretaste-of-worst-to-come-uk-economy-covid-19


Btw. I think Brazil, in particular, is heading for complete disaster.
Click to expand...

Last thing I read about Brazil was that the health service was collapsing. If that happens they will lose track of those that are ill and civil disorder could occur.
 
JohnC6 said:
Being the cynic I suspect the easing was in the pipeline but not to be introduced now until the Dominic Cummings saga caused them so much grief. Maybe they think that being 'let out' will help erase the recent problems for them re DC.

ancient_mariner said:
TBH I'm almost certain this is to make people feel less down on DC. Take away the frustration and a major driver for protest is neutralised.
Click to expand...

Reading my post again I think I may have mis-written that. The 'not to be introduced now' bit. Well, if Hilary Clinton can mis-speak I can mis-write.Not something I do very often.:) We actually agree, we are singing off the same song sheet, we are, at least on this occasion, as one on this. :)

I'll try again...with a twist.

Boris and co were going to introduce the easing of lockdown but my guess is in maybe a week or 10 days BUT they think..What can we do to pull the sting from the ill feeling towards DC and by default us in the way we're having to defend the indefensible at daily briefings and on Radio4, Radio Five Live and LBC with that pesky Nick Ferrari or Lamborghini fellow..etc. He showed no respect to our Michael during an interview the other day, was treating him with contempt,even. It has to stop. Almost no-one believes us, apart from diehard Tory supporters, the naive and visitors from another galaxy. Trust in us is ebbing like an outgoing tide. I know what we'll do to neutralise all this we'll bring forward those plans to ease lock down, tell people they can have a BBQ (but can't use the loo in the house of the host) tell them that any number of their family can be together in a park for instance AND have one other person with them who isn't a family member but that 'guest' must keep 2m apart . People of the same family can get in their cars and drive to nice locations but before they go they need to ensure that where they're going public toilets are open as many local authorities have weaponised the closing of them to deter visitors..Garden centres , golf courses and outdoor sports facilities can open with restrictions in place.The garden centres and golf courses will be the clincher. So, all will feel better about us apart from those who find themselves having to pay fines for basically doing what Dom did but never mind we can't win them all and they'll have more to worry about soon enough as the economic storm really hits us. They'll think they've won the argument and we'll be off the hook for a while until it really dawns on everyone that we didn't need to have 38,161 people die (to date) including those around Cheltenham Race Course and railway station because we didn't want our political bed-fellows to be out of pocket.

So.. things will ease up for them until we hit R1.0 and they have to rescind some of the easing measures.
 
arclight said:
Last thing I read about Brazil was that the health service was collapsing. If that happens they will lose track of those that are ill and civil disorder could occur.
Click to expand...

I think it will happen,Doug. It's almost certain. Those at the top are in denial. Two have resigned from Bolsanaro's government because of what's not being done.On the news last night there was a piece on Peru and the people who are leaving the capital and walking back to their Andean homes. Days walking (no proper roads) with small children..Heartbreaking.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...d783bc-8005-11ea-84c2-0792d8591911_story.html
 
JohnC6 said:
Being the cynic I suspect the easing was in the pipeline but not to be introduced now until the Dominic Cummings saga caused them so much grief. Maybe they think that being 'let out' will help erase the recent problems for them re DC.
Click to expand...

ancient_mariner said:
TBH I'm almost certain this is to make people feel less down on DC. Take away the frustration and a major driver for protest is neutralised.
Click to expand...

I was thinking pretty much the same thing. Ever since Boris announced the start of the easing of the lockdown it looks like they've been running around trying to get in place procedures and checks that should have been in place before the easing of the lockdown, it looks to me a bit like put the cart before the horse.
 
tarric said:
I was thinking pretty much the same thing. Ever since Boris announced the start of the easing of the lockdown it looks like they've been running around trying to get in place procedures and checks that should have been in place before the easing of the lockdown, it looks to me a bit like put the cart before the horse.
Click to expand...

Yes, and one of the SAGE scientists thinks the same this morning - View: https://BANNED/JeremyFarrar/status/1266470822564200456?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet


Dave
 
But their are other factors to consider. Keeping lockdown longer will increase other problems like mental health, financial problems etc so a balance needs to be struck. People were starting to tire of lockdown, and I think you would have seen a lot more people breaking it the longer it goes on.
 
cambsno said:
But their are other factors to consider. Keeping lockdown longer will increase other problems like mental health, financial problems etc so a balance needs to be struck. People were starting to tire of lockdown, and I think you would have seen a lot more people breaking it the longer it goes on.
Click to expand...
And lifting it is necessary to distract from the Cummings saga and when the virus peaks again that will be another welcome distraction from the Cummings saga and weak leadership by Johnson! Hurrah!
 
cambsno said:
But their are other factors to consider. Keeping lockdown longer will increase other problems like mental health, financial problems etc so a balance needs to be struck. People were starting to tire of lockdown, and I think you would have seen a lot more people breaking it the longer it goes on.
Click to expand...

From what I have observed and from what neighbours and friends say people have been steadily departing from the lockdown conditions for near to 2 months now. The roads are busy again. There are plenty people wandering about (initially streets were like the Marie Celeste). Local shops are open as is the one man band PO.
Quite a lot of people are working from home (I will not be surprised if many of those never go back to an office).
The number of Covid patients in many hospitals is well down.
Makes me wonder if lockdown relaxation is not so much driving population behaviour than catching up with reality.

Not only is the mental health aspect you mention a valid observation, but other treatments are being postponed.
 
Retune said:
View: https://BANNED/Olli_Vapalahti/status/1265856444718616577
Click to expand...

I get the daily newsletter from John Hopkins Center. The 28 May issue provided a link to that item. It is very concerning. I thought about posting it, but then thought that very few with read it all.

The bulk of the information about transmission that has been given to the general public is very much centered on infection spread by droplet. Perhaps you or Toni would be suitable people to explain the danger from "aerosol" infection and what exactly an aerosol is.
 
cambsno said:
But their are other factors to consider. Keeping lockdown longer will increase other problems like mental health, financial problems etc so a balance needs to be struck. People were starting to tire of lockdown, and I think you would have seen a lot more people breaking it the longer it goes on.
Click to expand...
I have read an article recently, in a scientific journal I think, regarding this, and it pretty much concluded that although there would be an increase in deaths unrelated to Covid-19 they would be dwarfed by the total deaths from the virus if no lockdown had been imposed. It was a few weeks ago so I'll have to see if I can find it later as posting on the phone right now.
 
Last edited:
cambsno said:
But their are other factors to consider. Keeping lockdown longer will increase other problems like mental health, financial problems etc so a balance needs to be struck. People were starting to tire of lockdown, and I think you would have seen a lot more people breaking it the longer it goes on.
Click to expand...

There are other factors to consider (including your usual economic worries) and while a balance has to be struck it has to be done safely, that's the key word that is missing and only being reinforced by SAGE committee scientists which the government are now starting to ignore. Dead people dont have mental health or financial problems!

sphexx said:
And lifting it is necessary to distract from the Cummings saga and when the virus peaks again that will be another welcome distraction from the Cummings saga and weak leadership by Johnson! Hurrah!
Click to expand...

Exactly this.

arclight said:
From what I have observed and from what neighbours and friends say people have been steadily departing from the lockdown conditions for near to 2 months now. The roads are busy again. There are plenty people wandering about (initially streets were like the Marie Celeste). Local shops are open as is the one man band PO.
Quite a lot of people are working from home (I will not be surprised if many of those never go back to an office).
The number of Covid patients in many hospitals is well down.
Makes me wonder if lockdown relaxation is not so much driving population behaviour than catching up with reality.

Not only is the mental health aspect you mention a valid observation, but other treatments are being postponed.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say the number of positive covid patients in hospitals is well down, I believe it was quite consistantly in the region of 10000 to 11000 in the UK and only this week is it down to 8000, an improvement yes, but not well down and out of the woods. Plus is that one indicator enough to judge safety of a nation? I'd argue not.

As for mental health, cancer treatments etc being postponed, certainly valid but the majority can be mitigated with the correct support as opposed to the quick and deadly risk of covid 19.

jakeblu said:
I have read an article recently, in a scientific journal I think, regarding this, and it pretty much concluded that although there would be an increase in deaths unrelated to Covid-19 they would be dwarfed by the total deaths from the virus if no lockdown had been imposed. It was a few weeks ago so I'll have to see if I can find it later as posting on the phone right now.
Click to expand...

Yep, this.
 
Donnie said:
There are other factors to consider (including your usual economic worries) and while a balance has to be struck it has to be done safely, that's the key word that is missing and only being reinforced by SAGE committee scientists which the government are now starting to ignore. Dead people dont have mental health or financial problems!


I wouldn't say the number of positive covid patients in hospitals is well down, I believe it was quite consistantly in the region of 10000 to 11000 in the UK and only this week is it down to 8000, an improvement yes, but not well down and out of the woods. Plus is that one indicator enough to judge safety of a nation? I'd argue not.

.
Click to expand...

At the peak NHS England were treating 19,000 patients in hospital.
 
Last edited:
mex said:
Another reason not to use the app.?
Click to expand...
It's been clear for several weeks now that the prime minister is no more capable in his current role than when he was the mayor of London. It must be obvious to many people that things need to change quickly to avoid many more unnecessary deaths.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
It's been clear for several weeks now that the prime minister is no more capable in his current role than when he was the mayor of London. It must be obvious to many people that things need to change quickly to avoid many more unnecessary deaths.
Click to expand...
It’s an interesting situation. Many people say Jonson is safe because he has a huge majority but that is exactly when PMs are in danger because their MPs feel they can revolt without endangering the Party :) and then things can escalate :).
 
mex said:
Another reason not to use the app.?

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...sons-test-and-tracing-system-britain-lockdown
Click to expand...

What a thoroughly depressing and infact, alarming, read and I see that Matt Hancock says that " highly trained track-and-trace staff are in place"

I've not long finished listening to Any Answers..Radio4 and a couple of tracers were on also and saying it's a shambles. I've heard that from other tracers ..Radio Five Live phone in for instance. One couldn't log on. I just think the way the crisis is being handled is akin to 'give the dog a bone' It's akin to a propaganda exercise.

Scientists are saying it's too early to ease lockdown because there are 8000 new cases a day....8000 ! 56,000 a week.. 224,000 a month taken over two months 448,000 3 months..672,000. The death rate looks to have increased since a few days ago according to the graph at the bottom here https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk

A group of English people in a car were stopped in Loveston,Pembrokeshire by the police and told to go back home....after reporting them for prosecution. They were going to the coast. It's a 440 mile round trip .I don't think it's allowed to drive from England into Wales.
 
Coming down the Motorway from Tiverton to Exeter yesterday, 4 boats on trailers passed us - and I was doing 70 (yer honour...) Only saw 2 caravans BUT it's only about 12 miles of motorway and we were going in the same direction.
 
sphexx said:
It’s an interesting situation. Many people say Jonson is safe because he has a huge majority but that is exactly when PMs are in danger because their MPs feel they can revolt without endangering the Party :) and then things can escalate :).
Click to expand...

I feel/think I might have said similar previously.

One of Johnson's historical political leaders he apparently admires is Churchill....and maybe some commentators have alluded to possible similarities i.e. 'cometh the hour, cometh the man'......least that was the way he maybe was (electorally) seen in regard to Brexit.

But what with the way (in total) he has overseen the handling of Covid19, could he indeed go the way of Churchill at the next election???
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top