Clients client didn't like the image, client can't pay me

If i'm not mistaken (take me outside and beat me if I am :bat: ) Isn't your first 'chat' with a solicitor free, that way you could get some advice and if need be, then get them to draft a letter??:thinking:
 
That is if you are going to hire them to do the case for you. If all you want is advice and you are going the small claims route there is usually a fee. I paid £50 to an employement lawyer last year for an hour. I'd be really surprised if it was more than that.
 
The ex-boss used to like doing the small claims court all the time (not to me, just to anyone who he felt he had a claim against ie dodgy ebay deals). Not only did he claim the amount he actually lost, but he claimed the fee back (i think is usually awarded if you win) and a bit more for his time taken to attend court.
 
Yeah, add on compensation costs, plus of course the cost of the letter...
 
You don't usually get costs in the small claims court. You are likely to get your issue fee paid back, although the court has the discretion to award costs it apparently rarely does.
 
Ok interesting turn of events. They sent me a letter today. They said they haven't used the images and that the client didn't approve of them. They also said they've had the images reviewed by 2 professional photographers. Now to me none of that matters because they accepted my work and were happy with it. Also, I'm fairly sure they *are* using some on the clients website. I'll try and find my matching images later.
 
Like you said, whether or not they used the images in question is of no consequense. You were under contract to supply the images :rules:, which you did, so they should pay.


:bat: :boxer:
 
Is it an issue that I didn't supply a T&C up front, only on the invoice? I know I should have supplied them up front and it was a stupid mistake. I'm tempted to take the £250 they offered in some respect because I do feel thats a slightly weak part of my case.
 
The money side is something only you can decide, if you can survive without the money, i would be inclined to dig my heals in and go for the kill :eek:

Have you worked for this client before? were T&C issued then? if so this could help your case as it may be a case of implied T&C (Though i am no legal expert).

If they HAVE used you pics then that opens up a whole new can of worms.
 
I have worked with them before, and the same T&C's have been on previous invoices and licenses. I would agree too, they should pay in full. Just annoying me really. Looking for pics now.
 
petemc said:
I have worked with them before, and the same T&C's have been on previous invoices and licenses. I would agree too, they should pay in full. Just annoying me really. Looking for pics now.
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I would go for the implied terms and conditions route then.

Good luck, keep us all informed.
 
Right. I've been through the images and it seems like they're not using mine. My client brought a 350D with him and took some shots on the day and it seems like they're using his. I'm going to whip up some comparisons in a bit. Basically if they've got 2 photographers saying mine are bad, then why on earth are they (imho) using images worse than mine? None of this really matters because they never mentioned this and were happy with the images.
 
Pete I wouldn't even get into the argument about whether the images theyre using are worse or not.

I'd simply just stand my ground and say "It doesnt matter, I did a job...you pay"
 
Oh yeah for sure. Just if they have expert witnesses, I'd like some ;)

I'm not after critique on mine but they're claiming mine aren't usable but imho they *are* better than what they're using.

Left = Theirs.
Right = Mine.

apart1-20070719-125528.jpg


apart2-20070719-125904.jpg


apart3-20070719-130006.jpg
 
Those are all very useable IMHO. Show the place off a treat
(tho I might query the verticals in the top right red one)
 
Oh sorry, the left hand side are what they're using. The right is what I produced. Its a comparison between what they chose to use with their claim that mine were rubbish. They never queried anything so they were accepted.
 
don't know which is which but I'd say those on the right show the property better.
 
I can't believe those first two are the same room. Yours is tons better.

Regardless of the quality of the pics, you did a job for them and they can't just not pay you after that. If they don't like the images it's their problem.
 
Ah, but the simple reason is ..... yours were dearer and they didn't want to pay.

Your terms and conditions is implied through previous usage which you say is on your invoices. Ignore the 'better than yours' argument. Insist on what is yours by legal right. They engaged you in a contract - they whelched on the deal. They're liable to you; either for agreed payment or some form of mitigated damages. See them in court..... they don't stand a scoobies!

Oh, and don't do any work for them again! You're too good for them! Go and tap up a few of them solicitors you photo'd a couple of months back. They'd LOVE a scrap like this!
 
Ah the solicitors thing fell through. They went with someone with more experience photographing suits in front of a white background. Thank god ;) I completely agree though. They were happy and don't wanna pay. Its odd that they even hired me if they didn't want to pay and had their own guy.
 
That may be why they hired you....

By having there guy there with a camera, they were able to see what you did, how you did it and essentialy get free pointers on how to shoot an interior (although not very good from the look of their pics)
 
I'm no expert but the ones on the right are brighter and cleaner looking images.
 
i would get on the blower to them Pete and give them some grief. Youve been out, done work and not been paid, its not the point they dont want to use the images.
 
petemc said:
Ah the solicitors thing fell through. They went with someone with more experience photographing suits in front of a white background. Thank god ;) I completely agree though. They were happy and don't wanna pay. Its odd that they even hired me if they didn't want to pay and had their own guy.
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Makes no difference who they used m8, you spent money and time getting to the shoot and processing the images, they owe you for that. It's a shame you can't afford a proper solicitor.

At the very least before working for them again you should expect part payment up front and refuse the job if they disagree. Personally if they came back again I'd politely tell them I don't work for companies who won't pay.

In future don't ever accept a job from a company without proper written and signed terms of contract.
 
Hi mate,

I only joined today, but may be able to help. Part of my job some time back, was controlling the aged debtors for a large company.

From what I've read, you are due the whole amount - case closed.

Use this format in future and don't make idle threats, do what you say you are going to do, or they will very quickly see you as a soft touch.

Once an invoice is due...

1. Send a reminder asking for payment within 7 days.
2. No payment in 7 days! - request payment by return, or legal action will commence with no further contact.
3. No payment by return! - Instruct your solicitor to send a 3 day letter.
4. No payment in 3 days! - Instruct your solicitor to commence county court action, to include ALL legal costs and interest on the debt.

If they have no case, they will generally pay upon reciept of the court papers, as they will not want a ccj against them.

They sometimes try to just pay the amount owed and not the costs, don't accept. Why? because they were warned and decided to ignore it!!

If they don't reply to the court papers, you will have judgement and the solicitor will advise on how to enforce the judgement.

Also, if they request a payment schedule, ie; so much per month, refuse the request on an amount this small.

Any other advice, please ask...;)
 
The only difference I noticed in the pictures is that those in the left hand column make the rooms look bigger. Right column better picture, left column bigger room.

Still no reason not to use yours though.
 
two matters here.....

firstly, you had a contract with them. You fulfilled that contract, as I presume nothing was mentioned about 'payment on acceptance of the images' They owe you money pure and simple, you need to pursue it Pete. It's not about artistic merit, it's about contractual obligations.

secondly, and I suspect this is what stings the most. They think that somebody elses images were better than yours. Unfortunately, this is a fact of life. What you think are great images are not necessarily everybodies cup of tea. I shoot this stuff for a living and I soon learnt that what estate agents want is not always a great 'artistic photo'
It makes me feel like a bit of a whore but ultimately it's a service industry and the customer gets what the customer wants. I don't think the images that the other tog shot are any worse or better than yours. just different.

Put the artistic pride to one side and see this for what it is, a pure business issue. Take them to court, even if it's the small claims and move on.




Sorry if I sound bit harsh, not my intention. I'm just worried that you're going to get hung up on something that shouldn't be an issue.
 
yours are miles better pete, it is hard to believe that they think the images that they are using are better..It must be just a financial issue, and what is all the sun streaming onto the floor in the first shot, it really spoils it for me.
 
Ok an update. About a month ago I filled in the small claims court info online and waited. A few days before I nearly won by default I got a letter saying that they are contesting jurisdiction. I haven't heard anything else. I don't know what that means. They didn't tick the defend all of this claim box. Its been 2 weeks since. It says they have 28 days to file a defence. Everything I've read says that I'm in the right. Just have to hope this works. I should hear something soon I guess.
 
Bit odd, they're basically saying they don't believe the Court has the authority to deal with the case either for geographical reasons or legal authority. Assuming they aren't based in Scotland or outside of the UK I can't see they'll get anywhere with their contestation...
 
petemc said:
They also said they've had the images reviewed by 2 professional photographers. Now to me none of that matters because they accepted my work and were happy with it. Also, I'm fairly sure they *are* using some on the clients website. I'll try and find my matching images later.
Click to expand...

Interesting, what would a professional photographer say about your images. And what would they say about the images that have been used. If your photographs were complete crap, with extrem out of focus and heavy blown out areas or under exposure, they could claim that your good/services wern't upto standard expected. But as the photos they have used demontrate some or all of these flaws, I'm not so sure their professional photosgraphers could really say much against your services.

Good Luck, I'm sure everything will go in your favour.
 
pxl8 said:
Bit odd, they're basically saying they don't believe the Court has the authority to deal with the case either for geographical reasons or legal authority. Assuming they aren't based in Scotland or outside of the UK I can't see they'll get anywhere with their contestation...
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Yeah its really strange that they chose this route. They are based in England.

natjag said:
Interesting, what would a professional photographer say about your images. And what would they say about the images that have been used. If your photographs were complete crap, with extrem out of focus and heavy blown out areas or under exposure, they could claim that your good/services wern't upto standard expected. But as the photos they have used demontrate some or all of these flaws, I'm not so sure their professional photosgraphers could really say much against your services.

Good Luck, I'm sure everything will go in your favour.
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Indeed. It seems like a scare tactic getting other photographers to side with them. Probably their mates. Surely anyone would side with me and ask to be paid.

crocodile said:
A letter from who?

If it was from the client then ignore it & press the court for judgement if they have filed no defence within the prescribed timescale.
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From the courts.
 
Hi Pete, sorry to hear about this, sounds like you've had a mare of it :(

IMO their ****e about expert witnesses is crap. You're not contesting the images, you're saying that you were employed under a contract and they're failing to abide by the terms in said contract. So they're full of crap ;)

I can't see the court not having the authourity to deal with the case, unless they're trying to get it pushed it into fast track, due to the complexity of the case. Unlikely that a judge would agree, as the issues are fairly simple.

The bottom line is that you fulfilled your end of the contract, they haven't paid.

Hope you added the court fee and Section 69 interest at 8% ;)
 
Annoyingly I didn't. I was being kind only asking for what I was owed for the original job. However I've had a crappy day and feel like taking it out on someone so I would have loved it to be them :)
 
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