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Yeah, would be much better if people like you were in charge....
and help to keep the site free for all
COVID vaccine announced
- Thread starter Mag1cp2x
- Start date
LongLensPhotography
Th..th..that's all folks!
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1. Is CORVID-19 anywhere near as dangerous as smallpox? Or perhaps a bit like flu, common cold or mostly asymptomatic for most?!
2. Would you care to comment about polio, SV-40 and how that went mostly in India and Africa
3.4.5.6. ... sorry I just can't be asked to debate a brick wall anymore.
Of course you just like to pick and choose topics and facts as it suits you. Feel free to do so with your mum or your pals. I am just leaving that here so everyone can see what you are truly made of.
P.S. Don't forget to come back and post your vaccination certificate to show that you stand behind your words. If you don't get it considering your statements nobody will have any respect to you.
LongLensPhotography
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Yeah, would be much better if people like you were in charge....
I'm joining the Reform party. With Farage and me in charge it will be amazing. I promise
sphexx
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You are well suited to each other, I wish you well. I am of course sad that with your newfound responsibilities you won’t have time to give us your words of wisdomI'm joining the Reform party. With Farage and me in charge it will be amazing. I promise
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Raymond Lin
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Lol, you can't even read.
I said more infectious than ebola, I never said it was more dangerous than smallpox. I said Smallpox is living proof that vaccine works. Somehow you got all that muddle together because you don't know the difference.
Please learn to read, you are making yourself look like a fool.
As for the rest, I would explain to you but I think you have some schooling to do and I am afraid you can't afford this class. There is only one topic, science and you get a big fat ZERO.
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What I really don't understand is the amount of aggresion and anger towards other members who have a different opinion on any subject.
Earlier in this thread LLP was asked by another member what his views were on the subject and he kindly posted them.
If you don't agree with them then that's fine but there is no need to be so aggressive in replies and ridicule; just accept that not everyone has the same viewpoint - it is allowed and in the end of the day people 'questioning' the mainstream viewpoint is usually a good thing in society.
There are probably very few of us knowledgeable in such specific subjects and if it's one thing the virus has taught me it is that it is very easy to 'pull an expert' from anywhere that disagrees with another expert so what we are told by the MSM is usually very heavilly biased towards a particular viewpoint.
BTW Raymond - I do believe LLP is quite well qualified in science so I would be careful what you state?
Please, lets cut back on the aggresion shown towards anyone who has a differing opinion; like many other threads it just becomes bullying and like watching vultures pick the meat from the bones; people do have differing opinions.
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Raymond Lin
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I have no problem with his "opinions" but I have a problem with lies. Unless he can back it up with science and proof.
Which he has not, and we know he cannot.
As for qualified, none of us are as qualified as those making the vaccine, none of us are as qualified as this guy. 30 years of infectious disease experience and he states Covid-19 is the most challenging, more than SARS, MERS, AIDS, Ebola. Not my words, but his.
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Raymond Lin
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I am not, and never claimed that I have, but I am saying follow the EXPERTS' opinions, like those you see on the news, not some guy on a photography forum.
So if you are not qualified then you can not say they are lies? They are your 'opinions' based on what 'experts' you choose to listen to are stating and like I said in my first post you can 'grab an expert' from anywhere that will say something different to another expert.
I'm not saying LLP is correct but just have respect for others viewpoints.
Woops - yep sorry about the typo :-(
I know it looks like I have highlighted raymond (Isuppose i have) but there definately is an element of ridicule/aggresion towards LLP's views IMO.
Raymond Lin
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I am not qualified, hence I am saying FOLLOW Doctors and experts, as I said they are smarter than us...(I said this, unless you want me to quote myself for you?)
As for what experts I choose to listen to? I dunno, by simple statistic, close my eyes and throw a dart? I suspect I will hit more experts who believe in vaccines than those who do not. Are you going to play the "who can come up with more experts" game? Really?
Oxford University is working on a vaccine, is that not enough? Feel free to find a qualified infectious disease expert like the one I linked to in a video above and come out stating "Vaccines are fake news".
Until then, what you are you trying to say exactly? Your right to voice your opinion? I already said 3 times he has the right to voice his opinion on he doesn't believe in it, but when he said things like Satan and us being the test subjects, he is flat out a liar since those people in clinical trials, THEY ARE by definition, the test subjects. That's the purpose of clinical trials. YOU KNOW THAT.
Opinions are fine, lies are not.
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Raymond Lin
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So when Dr Fauci says this vaccine near the end of the clinical trials has almost 95% effectiveness. And someone on a forum (with qualifications in ???) says vaccines don't work. As a reasonable person, who should one believe?
A known, qualified expert with experience, or.....?
Is that an aggressive question or a reasonable question?
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYP0kWTyZA0
A known, qualified expert with experience, or.....?
Is that an aggressive question or a reasonable question?
LongLensPhotography
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There is sadly a long history of this behaviour on this forum, mostly by these select "science elite" members. Opposing opinion is evidently not well tolerated.
Thank you. That is all I wanted to know. It was quite evident all along.
Yet you get to define what are opinions and what are lies. OK
And you also get to change the statements, turn it all almost 180 around to further turn discussion into mess and throw around ridiculous accusations only because you didn't like an opinion. OK. Nothing new here.
Just who exactly are you?
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Looking at the priority target of this vaccine I just can't stop thinking "Guinea Pigs"
The top 3 were all largely ignored in the beginning and now suddenly they are the most important !
Wouldn't it make more sense to get the work force protected and back first, or do they realise there will probably be a much higher uptake amongst these groups and therefore a higher test range
have not yet surfaced, hopefully by the time it is released things will be clearer
The top 3 were all largely ignored in the beginning and now suddenly they are the most important !
Wouldn't it make more sense to get the work force protected and back first, or do they realise there will probably be a much higher uptake amongst these groups and therefore a higher test range
- Older adults resident in a care home and care home workers
- All those 80 years of age and over and health and social care workers
- All those 75 years of age and over
- All those 70 years of age and over
- All those 65 years of age and over
- High-risk adults under 65 years of age
- Moderate-risk adults under 65 years of age
- All those 60 years of age and over
- All those 55 years of age and over
- All those 50 years of age and over
- Rest of the population (priority to be determined)
have not yet surfaced, hopefully by the time it is released things will be clearer
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I think the reason there is so much aggression is because uniformed views like the anti-vaxers and 5g masters can cost the lives of the many people who believe garbage like this and will extend this COVID nightmare far longer than necessary
I wouldn’t force the vaccine on anyone but I will say if you refuse to be vaccinated you sign a waiver to free NHS treatment.
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Raymond Lin
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Someone who listens to medical experts.
Someone who has had other vaccines and still alive.
Someone who believe in science.
The “accusation”? That you lie? You lie about they don’t do tests? You forgot already?
So what qualifications do you have? Stop turning this into me, I am not making the vaccines, this is about you and your lies. Do you have any evidence to support any of them from qualified medical professionals who have say, 30 years of experience in the field? Like the Head of Infectious Disease in Korea that I posted earlier.
Or perhaps yourself have the same level of experience or qualifications?
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Raymond Lin
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The idea of the vaccine isn’t to test on the population, the idea of the vaccine is to protect the population. The tests had already been done, Phrase 1 & 2 is when they normally test it in the healthiest people first. Phrase 3 is mass testing. When it is out of all 3 phrases and certified safe then it is good as any all other drugs going through the same method in the past.
Since the risk to Covid from a healthy 20 year old is less than 1% the idea isn’t to protect the strongest first but protect the most vulnerable. Hence they start off with the elderly. The stats shows that in Spain, half of the Covid deaths are in care homes, that should give you an idea why.
So, not Guinea Pigs, the people who volunteered to be tested in the Clinical Trials, they are the guinea pigs.
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sphexx
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No it wouldn’t make more sense to do that. If the groups you refer to are more likely to take the vaccine that‘s a good thing surely? If all those “vulnerable“ people (including health workers) get vaccinated then that will indirectly protect the workforce (which in any case includes a lot of those groups).
Sorry to say this but you are verging on advancing a conspiracy hypothesis. Large scale vaccination (or any medical advance) often throws up problems that may not have shown in trials just because of the necessarily smaller numbers but to call it testing is wrong
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What I don't understand is, these people who are doing the test, they are smart people, with experience, we are not talking about 1 person, we are talking about a LOT of people, all round the world, Universities, countries, continents, people with degrees, Masters & PHDs.
Yes we can question them, that's fine, you can ask questions but to say they are wrong or to suggest where they are going wrong, then state your reasoning with facts and basis or your research or qualification. They are doing testing and giving out vaccines in that order because they know better. If you think you know better sitting in your armchair, then I think you are in the wrong job.
Yes we can question them, that's fine, you can ask questions but to say they are wrong or to suggest where they are going wrong, then state your reasoning with facts and basis or your research or qualification. They are doing testing and giving out vaccines in that order because they know better. If you think you know better sitting in your armchair, then I think you are in the wrong job.
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I was thinking similar thoughts. Get the country moving again and vaccinate those that will be working and mixing. But, the above list will in theory stop 99% of deaths so it does make sense in that way. That said I would have probably put high risk under the age of 60 odd at the top of the list as these are people that could have kids etc... and while every life is important, and every death is sad, surely the impact of an 88yo getting covid compared to a 40yo mum, who is high risk ,of two kids is completely different?
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Sorry to say this but you are verging on advancing a conspiracy hypothesis. Large scale vaccination (or any medical advance) often throws up problems that may not have shown in trials just because of the necessarily smaller numbers but to call it testing is wrong
Why ?
Only questioning why the priority is older people ?
Yes to health workers, care staff etc. they should be at the top of the list
I'm retired, kids are grown up so I have no dependants, before you
start accusing me of age prejudice as well only the tax man loses out if I die
Many are quick to point out that young aren't immune and can it can still prove fatal at any age
One of my daughters and her husband, both in early 30s have both had it and are recovering
thankfully but still unable to work
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This is no more true now than it is for the annual flu vaccine, where older people are also targeted because they are most at risk. It is true that we might not know about very rare adverse events when the vaccine is first released (say those that affect 1 in 100,000 people, as the vaccine may only have been tested on tens of thousands). But the risk/benefit analysis is still pretty clear for the older age groups, where the infection fatality ratio may be of the order of 1 in 10.
My wife is a biologist/biotechnologist with a masters degree which focussed on RNA/DNA, so she does have experience relevant to this virus. She is an expert in T-cell receptors and the part they play in the immune system.
Covid-19 is nothing like a cold or even seasonal flu, it is far more dangerous.
Raymond Lin
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The point is that they are treating it as ALL life are equal and then go from there, they are not letting the oldest and the weakest die first.
It's like the Titanic is sinking, you let the children and women go on the life raft last? Yes I know it looks great in movies when the old guy goes "you have a life in front of you, I will stay behind and fight them off with this last round of bullets".
This is real life.
If you want to pass on the vaccine, that's your choice but they are not going to give it to the people with least risks first because by definition, they are in the least risk group.
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sphexx
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Only because of the way you phrased this:
“Looking at the priority target of this vaccine I just can't stop thinking "Guinea Pigs"
The top 3 were all largely ignored in the beginning and now suddenly they are the most important !”
Only questioning why the priority is older people ?“
Not accusing you of that or anything, I know from your other posts roughly what your situation is. I just disagree with the way you phrased that as verging on conspiracy hypothesis by suggesting people who get the vaccine are “guinea pigs”
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A lot of the technical stuff behind the virus and vaccines is something I'm not familiar, although I do like to learn (within reason of course, I've only got so much grey matter lol). I'm not familiar with the SV-40 reference you made nor have I looked it up but I'm guessing it went bad.
We have current measures such as masks, social distancing, hygiene etc but (keeping it on fairly layman's terms) are there any long term effective alternatives to a vaccine to combat viruses including COVID-19 which doesn't involve the current measures?
That would be quite a dangerous scenario though?
Do the people who smoke, are obese, alcoholic, have religous beliefs, self harm due to mental health issues etc also have to sign the waiver that they are not entitled to NHS help when they become ill with something?
sphexx
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It’s an interesting point. I wouldn’t agree with not treating idiots who won’t have vaccines for non medical reasons but the situation is different from the other people you cite. Medical staff can’t catch obesity from fat people (though it might put their backs at risk moving them
) whereas people not having vaccines in theory are more likely to infect medical staff. requiring vaccines for school pupils might be a better example.
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So what happens if someone is in a serious RTA? Do they check vaccination history before cutting you out the car, or turf you out the ambulance en-route?
sphexx
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Now there’s an idea
. Don’t they do something like that in the US -- check your medical insurance before treating you?
Raymond Lin
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Now there’s an idea
I would expect it will become something like measles, after enough in the population are vaccinated, you build herd immunity through it. It pretty much becomes irrelevant and the standard practice of gloves, masks for medical professionals applies.
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Why a Covid vaccine doesn't mean the end of face masks yet | David Salisbury
Despite the Pfizer breakthrough, social distancing and remote working won’t disappear overnight, says immunisation expert David Salisbury
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Exactly - more for the rest of us!!
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sphexx
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Surely making medical professional wear masks & gloves is taking away their freedom?
Raymond Lin
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Surely making medical professional wear masks & gloves is taking away their freedom?
lol I know you are kidding but many laws have been passed to protect the population from it’s stupidly, like seat belt, or drink driving or building regulations etc
if they decide to pass a law on masks, it won’t be the first time doing it to protect the people. People are stupid, sometimes it’s necessary to pass laws so the population must follow in order to make up the difference in IQ points, before they harm themselves or other people.
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