D500

Reading up on the D500 it appears that you can set different AF modes to a variety of buttons is this correct? If so does the same button toggle this 'new' AF mode on/off, or do you have to assign another button to return it to the previous AF mode?
 
Reading up on the D500 it appears that you can set different AF modes to a variety of buttons is this correct? If so does the same button toggle this 'new' AF mode on/off, or do you have to assign another button to return it to the previous AF mode?
Yes you can, it's press and hold (momentary). I don't think it can be set to double press (on/off toggle). I'll have to check again as toggle would be preferable to me.
 
You can configure the various buttons to work like the AF ON button but with each one having a different AF Mode.

For example I normally have the standard AF ON button set up as my default AF Mode which is Group.
I have the Preview Button set as Spot Mode with the Af On option and I have the centre button of the sub selector set as AF Mode D25 Mode also with th Af On option.
So its very easy to change from using one AF Mode to another without taking your eye from the viewfinder.

In a typical scenario I might for example be tracking a bird in flight by pressing and holding the AF ON button ( AF Mode Group ). The bird lands on the ground and moves around a bit so I switch to using AF Mode D25 (letting go of the AF ON button and pressing and holding the centre button of the sub selector). If the bird stops I can switch to AF Mode Spot by letting go of the sub selector button and pressing and holding the preview button.

There are loads of different options for each of the buttons so it will take a bit of playing around to find the overall configuration that you think works best for you.

I am going to have a serious look as the 3D tracking mode as I understand it has been really improved in the D500 compared to earlier camera models. If its as good as people are saying I may modify my set up to use 3D tracking instead of D25 on the sub selector button.
 
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Even more options with the D5. Additional AF modes and more buttons that can be configured !!!!
 
Yes you can, it's press and hold (momentary). I don't think it can be set to double press (on/off toggle). I'll have to check again as toggle would be preferable to me.

You can configure the various buttons to work like the AF ON button but with each one having a different AF Mode.

For example I normally have the standard AF ON button set up as my default AF Mode which is Group.
I have the Preview Button set as Spot Mode with the Af On option and I have the centre button of the sub selector set as AF Mode D25 Mode also with th Af On option.
So its very easy to change from using one AF Mode to another without taking your eye from the viewfinder.

In a typical scenario I might for example be tracking a bird in flight by pressing and holding the AF ON button ( AF Mode Group ). The bird lands on the ground and moves around a bit so I switch to using AF Mode D25 (letting go of the AF ON button and pressing and holding the centre button of the sub selector). If the bird stops I can switch to AF Mode Spot by letting go of the sub selector button and pressing and holding the preview button.

There are loads of different options for each of the buttons so it will take a bit of playing around to find the overall configuration that you think works best for you.

I am going to have a serious look as the 3D tracking mode as I understand it has been really improved in the D500 compared to earlier camera models. If its as good as people are saying I may modify my set up to use 3D tracking instead of D25 on the sub selector button.

Thanks, plenty to play about with then :D
 
I am going to have a serious look as the 3D tracking mode as I understand it has been really improved in the D500 compared to earlier camera models. If its as good as people are saying I may modify my set up to use 3D tracking instead of D25 on the sub selector button.
I would, at least until they fix the d9-d153 modes...
 
In simple terms please - I cannot quite grasp the difference between group and D9 etc when using AFC ?

Which would you use for motorcycle racing for example ?
 
They are essentially the same except that d9 is a little smaller in area... IMO they are interchangeable.
Hmm ... I find Group to be much more accurate for picking up a subject and 'tracking' it than d9 :)
 
They are essentially the same except that d9 is a little smaller in area... IMO they are interchangeable.
I don't believe this is true tbh. With dynamic area initial acquisition is via the selected focus point and migrates from this momentarily if the selected focus point moves off the subject. If the subject is not in the selected point initially then the camera will try the other points, but obviously there's a delay in doing so.

In group AF all points are given equal priority, therefore if you're shooting something small and erratic there's a better chance of having an active AF point over it initially and therefore gaining quicker initial lock on.
 
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Thanks Steven...So whats the D benefit then ?
In d9? None.
Group uses the selected focus point and the points immediately surrounding to achieve focus, it as does d9 (and every dynamic mode, although the manual doesn't tell you this). On previous models the size and number of points was exactly the same. With the D5/D500 the area of d9 fits within the group area.
 
Personally I find d25 more accurate than group.
THere is no d9 on the D500.
 
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I don't believe this is true tbh. With dynamic area initial acquisition is via the selected focus point and migrates from this momentarily if the selected focus point moves off the subject. If the subject is not in the selected point initially then the camera will try the other points, but obviously there's a delay in doing so.

In group AF all points are given equal priority, therefore if you're shooting something small and erratic there's a better chance of having an active AF point over it initially and therefore gaining quicker initial lock on.

Actually, that's not true even though the manual doesn't say anything about it. You can test this by using something like a blank/featureless wall and a window frame. As you pan towards the frame in a dynamic mode the camera will focus as soon as one of the surrounding points sees it, and before the selected point does (it was more apparent w/ the 51 point system). All of the dynamic modes use 10 points to acquire focus (unless the selected point is at the edge).

Edit: Maybe you said the essentially same thing... but if you can notice any delay, you're better than I am.
 
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Personally I find d25 more accurate than group.
THere is no d9 on the D500.
Really? They added it to the D5 with a firmware update.

On the new cameras d25 is the same size/area as group mode, but the same (smaller area) 9 points are used to acquire AF as the other dynamic modes. d25 effectively provides one band of additional points for AF to momentarily wander to. With the D5/D500, the farther you let AF wander/track, the more likely you are to run into problems.
 
Actually, that's not true even though the manual doesn't say anything about it. You can test this by using something like a blank/featureless wall and a window frame. As you pan towards the frame in a dynamic mode the camera will focus as soon as one of the surrounding points sees it, and before the selected point does (it was more apparent w/ the 51 point system). All of the dynamic modes use 9 points to acquire focus (unless the selected point is at the edge).
Yes each can gain acquisition in dynamic but the priority is given to the selected point. In group all points have equal priority. Might not be easy to detect the difference between the two AF modes but may make a difference in certain situations.
 
Yes each can gain acquisition in dynamic but the priority is given to the selected point. In group all points have equal priority. Might not be easy to detect the difference between the two AF modes but may make a difference in certain situations.
Can't see where it could be "better." When I use group mode I place what I want in the center of the group (if I can)... and I believe "priority" is still placed there, it would be kind of dumb if it wasn't.
AFAIK, there is nothing written by Nikon that explains the finer points of AF behaviors, and a lot of what is written is vague at best... so it's kind of "best guess" based upon extensive testing/experience. FWIW, I can detect no delay/difference.

What I *think* probably causes many to find group better is that they don't expect it to help them that much... so they automatically/subliminally apply better technique. I used to use d51 almost all of the time because if the subject was stationary it acted like single point, if there was a little motion it acted like group, and if there was more motion it expanded as needed.
 
What I *think* probably causes many to find group better is that they don't expect it to help them that much... so they automatically/subliminally apply better technique.

No that's definitely not true Steven ... Group has more ability to 'stick' with a moving object.
 
Can't see where it could be "better." When I use group mode I place what I want in the center of the group (if I can)... and I believe "priority" is still placed there, it would be kind of dumb if it wasn't.
AFAIK, there is nothing written by Nikon that explains the finer points of AF behaviors, and a lot of what is written is vague at best... so it's kind of "best guess" based upon extensive testing/experience. FWIW, I can detect no delay/difference.

What I *think* probably causes many to find group better is that they don't expect it to help them that much... so they automatically/subliminally apply better technique. I used to use d51 almost all of the time because if the subject was stationary it acted like single point, if there was a little motion it acted like group, and if there was more motion it expanded as needed.
http://nps.nikonimaging.com/technical_solutions/d500_tips/af/af-area_mode/

I personally don't think it's dumb, Nikon are giving us options. With more AF points active you've got a better chance of one being over the subject if it's small and/or erratic, especially when using long telephotos. At 600mm+ 'chasing' a small bird it's difficult just to get one AF point on it. You have dynamic for the way you'd like to use it, but group might suit another user better (y)
 
the D9 was omitted my Nikon in the early releases, the D5 users got it back VIA FW update, i hazard a guess we will get it back in one shortly, seems like its an old school favourite.
Ive been shooting Rugby for the last 2 weeks and float between 25 and 72, 25 seems to nail them IF you can keep the subject in the points long enough, however i seem to get more success with 72, still testing though, would be nice to try a 9.
 
He won't be picking it up till tmr I guess. Look forward to your reviews.
 
No that's definitely not true Steven ... Group has more ability to 'stick' with a moving object.
Probably true w/ the D5/D500, for two reasons. Group mode is now a larger area than d9 is (used to be the same area), and because the dynamic modes are now "broken" and will happily refocus on the BG if it can (it wouldn't before).
 
http://nps.nikonimaging.com/technical_solutions/d500_tips/af/af-area_mode/

I personally don't think it's dumb, Nikon are giving us options. With more AF points active you've got a better chance of one being over the subject if it's small and/or erratic, especially when using long telephotos. At 600mm+ 'chasing' a small bird it's difficult just to get one AF point on it. You have dynamic for the way you'd like to use it, but group might suit another user better (y)
Nothing there that's not in the manuals... I've also read all of the "sports settings" recommendations (which don't work well w/ the D5/D500 IMO). I do agree that there is no one/right choice... other than to say that you should probably use as few points as you can reliably. But understanding the system is important when making those choices.

The AF system is really pretty basic. You start with single point. Then you have group which is single point with additional points around it to acquire focus. Then you have dynamic modes which is single point with additional points around it to acquire focus, and even more points around it for tracking (above d9). Irregardless of which mode is selected, the AF system will lock onto whichever point it best can. In some modes it "evaluates" multiple points simultaneously but it still only uses one point to focus (more than one point may report as having been w/in focus tolerance)... it doesn't "average" the focus points and focus somewhere in-between (not that I can find/tell).

Additionally, the focus point display is somewhat misleading... it doesn't always/usually show all of the points in use/available. Previously (51pt system) Nikon said group mode used 5 points (center point not displayed). Now they say group mode is "all the focus points in a group" which is what it's always seemed to be, but now that group has 25pts in it (~ equivalent in area to the 51pt systems 9pt area).
In dynamic modes they say that all enabled focus points are used for focus... again, not quite true. They are used to *maintain* focus... i.e. if there is nothing at the center/selected point (9 points) it will not check the others in order to acquire focus.

In some modes (i.e. group/auto) they tell you that the system prioritizes the closest point, which is "kind of" true. It will lock onto the first thing it best can, and if multiple points can reasonably acquire focus it will prioritize the closest in use. But it will only be "the closest" if focus is initiated from a near distance (or all points are at similar distance w/in the DOF) . Sometimes it is beneficial to "preset" the AF starting point in order to bias the system, that way the system knows it only has one direction to move in order to acquire focus and you can bias the behavior towards near or distant subjects. I had previously stated it biased to the center in group mode, which is wrong... it's "nearest" (but still only one point, and not necessarily preferable). Edit to add: Additionally, in dynamic modes the 9pts used to acquire focus also prioritize "closest," just like group does.

It's not until you get to auto/3D that the system starts to do tricky things like color tracking (3D), and when matrix metering is enabled the scene recognition system also influences what is chosen for focus/tracking (auto/3D).

However, I can't really recommend any of the dynamic modes (d9-d153) with the D5/D500 currently, it is too fast and too ready to focus on the BG if it can... and it usually can.
 
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Nothing there that's not in the manuals... I've also read all of the "sports settings" recommendations (which don't work well w/ the D5/D500 IMO). I do agree that there is no one/right choice... other than to say that you should probably use as few points as you can reliably. But understanding the system is important when making those choices.

The AF system is really pretty basic. You start with single point. Then you have group which is single point with additional points around it to acquire focus. Then you have dynamic modes which is single point with additional points around it to acquire focus, and even more points around it for tracking (above d9). Irregardless of which mode is selected, the AF system will lock onto whichever point it best can. In some modes it "evaluates" multiple points simultaneously but it still only uses one point to focus (more than one point may report as having been w/in focus tolerance)... it doesn't "average" the focus points and focus somewhere in-between (not that I can find/tell).

Additionally, the focus point display is somewhat misleading... it doesn't always/usually show all of the points in use/available. Previously (51pt system) Nikon said group mode used 5 points (center point not displayed), but in testing that doesn't appear to be true... I can get it to focus w/ a point of contrast coming in from the corner (i.e. 9pt). Now they say group mode is "all the focus points in a group" which is what it's always seemed to be, but now that group has 25pts in it (~ equivalent in area to the 51pt systems 9pt area).
In dynamic modes they say that all enabled focus points are used for focus... again, not quite true. They are used to *maintain* focus... i.e. if there is nothing at the center/selected point (9 points) it will not check the others in order to acquire focus.

In some modes (i.e. group/auto) they tell you that the system prioritizes the closest point, which is "kind of" true. It will lock onto the first thing it best can, and if multiple points can reasonably acquire focus it will prioritize the closest in use. But it will only be "the closest" if focus is initiated from a near distance (or all points are at similar distance w/in the DOF) . Sometimes it is beneficial to "preset" the AF starting point in order to bias the system, that way the system knows it only has one direction to move in order to acquire focus and you can bias the behavior towards near or distant subjects. I had previously stated it biased to the center in group mode, which is wrong... it's "nearest" (but still only one point, and not necessarily preferable).

It's not until you get to auto/3D that the system starts to do tricky things like color tracking (3D), and when matrix metering is enabled the scene recognition system also influences what is chosen for focus/tracking (auto/3D).

However, I can't really recommend any of the dynamic modes (d9-d153) with the D5/D500 currently, it is too fast and too ready to focus on the BG if it can... and it usually can.
TBH, I don't find the dynamic mode that great on the D750, so wasn't going to use it on the D500 either ;) 99.9% of the time I use single point, whether using AF-S or AF-C. I might give 3D another try now though with the D500 as you say it has facial recognition.
 
TBH, I don't find the dynamic mode that great on the D750, so wasn't going to use it on the D500 either
Even the best iterations of the 51pt system is not fast enough for some subjects/situations... The D5/D500 is MUCH faster, but they "broke" the dynamic mode's behavior.
 
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