F1 2017 season

what a way to promote F1 in America
Give the fans the race of the year then screw it up
Oh so smart
Still Max coming from the back to 4th (3rd) was outstanding
I reckon Liberty are looking at ways to sort stewards, In private that is
Come on Russ show them how its done
 
fuzzyedges said:
what a way to promote F1 in America
Give the fans the race of the year then screw it up
Oh so smart
Still Max coming from the back to 4th (3rd) was outstanding
I reckon Liberty are looking at ways to sort stewards, In private that is
Come on Russ show them how its done
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Consistent application of the rules would be a good start. If other sports had referees who were so wishywashy over the rule application they wouldn’t be refereeing for much longer.
 
Ref Max's penalty, may not be popular but he did overtake Kimi while cutting the track with all four wheels. When watching it live my first thought was he'd be in trouble for that especially given that on further replays there was no way he could claim Kimi squeezed him off track, he had loads of room.
His only defence would be if everyone was cutting that corner in the same manner every lap and therefore it was considered an accepted racing line but the rules state you cannot go all four wheels of the track and gain an advantage, it's pretty clear.
Not seen the interviews afterwards though sounds like he wasn't as calm as he appeared in the 'first three' room after the race.

It was a cracking drive by Max though, just wish he'd stayed a couple of feet to the left on that corner.

As for a Finnish steward, c'mon, you'd have a very limited pool of stewards to choose from if you had to discount all those with the same nationality of any of the current drivers and teams, so no British, American, Italian, French, German, Australian, Russian, Spanish, Austrian, Japanese, Finnish, Dutch, Mexican of the top of my head.
 
PaulF said:
Ref Max's penalty, may not be popular but he did overtake Kimi while cutting the track with all four wheels. When watching it live my first thought was he'd be in trouble for that especially given that on further replays there was no way he could claim Kimi squeezed him off track, he had loads of room.
His only defence would be if everyone was cutting that corner in the same manner every lap and therefore it was considered an accepted racing line but the rules state you cannot go all four wheels of the track and gain an advantage, it's pretty clear.
Not seen the interviews afterwards though sounds like he wasn't as calm as he appeared in the 'first three' room after the race.

It was a cracking drive by Max though, just wish he'd stayed a couple of feet to the left on that corner.

As for a Finnish steward, c'mon, you'd have a very limited pool of stewards to choose from if you had to discount all those with the same nationality of any of the current drivers and teams, so no British, American, Italian, French, German, Australian, Russian, Spanish, Austrian, Japanese, Finnish, Dutch, Mexican of the top of my head.
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So why do drivers exceed the track limits when not overtaking, because it allows the optimum line. So how is that not gaining an advantage.

So here's an example, a car in front exceeds track limits with the car behind about 0.5 second or 45 meters behind and gains another say 3/10th, that keeps the car in front out of DRS range. As seen from the Circuit of the Americas from Hamiltons pass on Vettel the circuit favours the tow and more passing from DRS especially with the wind direction (how many other times this season has a leading Ferrari been passed by a Merc. So how is that not an advantage. Just because its not as visible as a pass exceeding track limits its still an advantage.

There's plenty of images doing the rounds of Vettel exceeding and Sainz passing off track. Lack of consistency in a sport that is meant to be cutting edge is woeful
 
I think the simple answer is that any car going off track limits should be penalised, unless in the view of the stewards it is to avoid a collision which was not their fault. In that case the driver judged to have caused the near collision should be penalised. The problem is that to make tracks safer there are now larger run off areas, which drivers now use to gain an advantage. In my opinion if a driver runs off track by going in to a corner too hot they should be penalised, they’ve clearly gained an advantage as if it was a gravel trap or shark infested custard they’d be out of the race. Just look at DR and VT at the start of the race, the lack of consistency is what frustrate people. We want good racing but it needs to be within limits, the stewards need to make this clear, and not just at certain corners or in certain circumstances.
 
@jamesev I agree, it's not always as obvious but if you overtake someone while not on the track then surely you'd expect to have to give the place back or accept a penalty.
It's a difficult balance to achieve though. As with all the telemetry available to the stewards it could be worked out if any driver had gained an advantage from any off track excursion but how many stewards interventions would we see before the fans started to shout 'let them race'. What is needed is a simple to understand and enforce rule, not a wishy washy guideline.

In my view they should use a simple rule similar to the BTCC, exceed the track limits 3 times (anywhere on the circuit) and on the 4th a penalty is given. I'd bet that not many F1 drivers would go off track if there was a risk of a drive through penalty after they've been notified they're on their last chance. That would need to be enforced rigorously to be effective.

They've suffered from the 'judgement' calls made in the past whereby Charlie has deemed that if they go off track at a particular corner then they would not gain an advantage which often proved to be rubbish as no racing driver will go off track every lap if it wasn't the quickest way to do it.

I agree with Martin Brundle, the track is the bit between the while lines and they should stick to those bits with at least 2 wheels at all times.
 
PaulF said:
Ref Max's penalty, may not be popular but he did overtake Kimi while cutting the track with all four wheels. When watching it live my first thought was he'd be in trouble for that especially given that on further replays there was no way he could claim Kimi squeezed him off track, he had loads of room..
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I thought Kimi moved over then decided against it, but at the point max had moved and stayed on the line.
Driver of the day gets a penalty point on his super licence for a move that the stewards have been inconsistent with policing.

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But what the merry f*** was that stupid americanised way of bringing the drivers out through the tunnel. FFS
 
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On and on the americanisation, why did they superimpose an eagle on the track at one point?
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PaulF said:
@jamesev

I agree with Martin Brundle, the track is the bit between the while lines and they should stick to those bits with at least 2 wheels at all times.
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I can't listen to Martin Brundle, too much "in my day". Which is now irrelevant in modern F1. At least Webber and Coultard are vaguely contemporary and Jones adds a bit of light heartenness.

Having said that Sky is redeemed by Davidson and Kravitz, however McKenzie and Chandok are as good as that pairing.
 
Byker28i said:
I thought Kimi moved over then decided against it, but at the point max had moved and stayed on the line.
Driver of the day gets a penalty point on his super licence for a move that the stewards have been inconsistent with policing.

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But what the merry f*** was that stupid americanised way of bringing the drivers out through the tunnel. FFS
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Byker28i said:
Sainz on Ocon
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Sainz should have got a penalty for that move too. I don't think anyone can argue the stewarding in F1 is consistent!

The Max/Kimi shot confirms that Kimi was ahead before Max went off track, I know it seems a travesty of justice and Max probably deserved the podium after the drive he had yesterday but it's still worthy of a penalty, I'm 100% sure if it was the other way around Mr Horner would be pleased with the decision.

I'm not sure about the driver presentations either, too long winded. Wonder what Sergio Perez thought about the pronunciation of Mexico, unless of course that's how Mexicans pronounce it.
Did anyone see if Lewis 'took the knee' as he had hinted he might, I noticed they didn't show him until towards the end of the anthem.
 
I've watched it again. Max had a large differential in speed to Kimi, who left the door open slightly then tried to close it, then changed his mind and left more room, fearing a collision, by which time Max had moved over also fearing a collision and stuck to that line.
You can see why he picked up the obvious move back a place penalty, but it could also go the other way as he was avoiding a collision and Kimi moved over in the corner.
It won't cause Max's reputation any issues, but will F1 in the US. They tried everything to make it exciting for the americans, then decided places after the race.
He's now the youngest to have two podiums taken away from him :D
 
I thought it was a good race from start to finish, I even managed to watch it without fast forwarding any of the action too.
Lewis had mega pace all weekend and there was not a lot Ferrari could do. Maybe Max, without his grid penalty could have undercut him?
Barring any failures Lewis should bring his 4th championship home this weekend and I can't see Mercedes letting him down at this point in the season.

The driver parade? How strange. Only in America I guess. For me the jury is still out. I've always wanted to hear more from some of the drivers on the grid as a spectator and I'm surprised they got some words out of Lewis.

Max Vs Kimi. Max was hard done by IMO. I cheered when he overtook Kimi, it was a brave last ditch move to get on the podium again and his position should have stood given that advantage or no advantage lots of drivers exceeded track limits last weekend.
 
LOL - I know ;) But then when you actually work out the wingspan compared to the car and then think why? Just who though that was a good idea? Does it happen in other sports
But then getting the drivers to come on through a smoke erupting tunnel, with an announcer who tried to bling up their talents, whilst power ranger lookalikes jumped about on the roof?
I mean, I've been to the US a lot, I know I shouldn't be surprised at anything tacky there any more, but, well just but...
 
Byker28i said:
Sainz on Ocon
mWsZvcOv.png
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Context always helps with things like this being posted on twitter.

Sainz didn't pass Ocon there. He went in to the corner behind and came out of the corner behind. He actually overtook him 2-3 corners later so that wasn't an illegal pass, unlike Verstappens.
 
2017 FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO DE MÉXICO


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Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez
Lap data
Lap length 4.304km (2.674 miles)
Race laps 71
Race distance 305.354km (189.738 miles)
Pole position Left-hand side of the track
Lap record* 1’20.521 (Nico Rosberg, 2015)
Fastest lap 1’19.480 (Nico Rosberg, 2015, qualifying three)
Maximum speed 349kph (216.858 mph)
DRS zone/s (race) Pit straight and longest straight
Distance from grid to turn one 890m
Full throttle 45%
Longest flat-out section 1200m
Downforce level
Gear changes per lap 52
Fuel use per lap 1.41kg
Time penalty per lap of fuel 0.054s

UK Times
Friday 27th October 2017
Mexican Grand Prix Free Practice 1: 10:00-11:30 (UK time: 16:00-17:30)
Mexican Grand Prix Free Practice 2: 14:00-15:30 (UK time: 20:00-21:30)
Saturday 28th October 2017
Mexican Grand Prix Free Practice 3: 10:00-11:00 (UK time: 16:00-17:00)
Mexican Grand Prix Qualifying: 13:00 (UK time: 19:00)
Sunday 29th October 2017
Mexican Grand Prix: 13:00 (UK time: 19:00)

Previous Winners
2016 United Kingdom Lewis Hamilton Mercedes
2015 Germany Nico Rosberg Mercedes
2014 – 1993 Not held
1992 United Kingdom Nigel Mansell Williams-Renault
1991 Italy Riccardo Patrese Williams-Renault
1990 France Alain Prost Ferrari
1989 Brazil Ayrton Senna McLaren-Honda
1988 France Alain Prost McLaren-Honda
1987 United Kingdom Nigel Mansell Williams-Honda
1986 Austria Gerhard Berger Benetton-BMW

Videos

2016 highlights various onboards
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtSqo2QJCR0


Senna onboard 1992
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTDuEJJwMqM


Facts from the previous race

Lewis Hamilton only needs a fifth place from any of the remaining three races to win this year’s world championship.

The chances of him being beaten are now extremely remote. But he knows nothing can be taken for granted.

After all, ten years ago he only needed a fifth place from any of the last two races to win the championship. He didn’t get one, and Kimi Raikkonen snatched one of the most improbable title wins the sport has ever seen. In relative terms it was the biggest championship lead ever overturned in F1 history.

Hamilton tallied his 72nd pole and 62nd win. But Sebastian Vettel took the fastest lap – the 32nd of his career. Vettel’s lap of 1’37.766 is a new race lap record for the Circuit of the Americas, and the all-time track record fell in qualifying.

Neither Vettel nor anyone else have been able to contain Hamilton since the summer break. Six races have yielded five wins and a second place for the Mercedes driver, who’s only dropped seven points from a potential maximum of 150. Vettel has lost points to him every weekend since Hungary.

Hamilton’s record in the United States Grand Prix is much the same. Seven races, six wins, five at the Circuit of the Americas and the other at Indianapolis back in that unforgettable 2007 season. Fittingly for a driver who has made the USA his second home, he is now the most successful driver in America, with six United States Grand Prix wins. That moves him ahead of Michael Schumacher (five US GP wins) and Ayrton Senna (two US GP wins and three US Detroit GP wins).

Another of Schumacher’s records fell last weekend. Having already surpassed his pole positions benchmark earlier this year, Hamilton’s 117th front row start puts him ahead of Schumacher at the top of the all-time record list.

Esteban Ocon was another record-breaker on Sunday. Since he began his F1 career last year he’s been classified in all 26 races he’s started. That beats the previous best finishing streak from the start of a season set by Max Chilton. Both drivers began their careers at Manor.

Carlos Sainz Jnr made a dream debut at Renault, starting and finishing in seventh place. That result is just one place lower than their best finish of the season so far.

His move from Toro Rosso could end up costing his former team a place in the constructors’ championship. Sainz’s six points moved Renault ahead of Haas and leaves them five shy of Toro Rosso. Renault’s target team is Williams, who are a further 15 points ahead. It’s not impossible they might be caught, though Renault need fewer problems of the type which ruined Nico Hulkenberg’s weekend.

Daniel Ricciardo posted his third retirement due to a technical failure this year. He’s only had one fewer than team mate Max Verstappen, whose reliability problems have been a significant talking point.

Verstappen repeated his Chinese Grand Prix feat of starting 16th and finishing third, but only ‘on the road’. A post-race time penalty for overtaking Raikkonen with all four wheels off the track dropped him down to fourth.

Perhaps the stewards wanted to prevent the 20-year-old, who is below the legal minimum drinking age in Texas, from quaffing the podium champagne?

Current Standings
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Drivers’ Chosen Tyres
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It says on my calender the start time is 19-00 Highlights 22-30 on 4
 
KevC said:
Context always helps with things like this being posted on twitter.

Sainz didn't pass Ocon there. He went in to the corner behind and came out of the corner behind. He actually overtook him 2-3 corners later so that wasn't an illegal pass, unlike Verstappens.
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The move was illegal but when you see it from maxs cockpit a) there was a gap on the inside of Kimi b) Kimi moved to the left to avoid a crash c) max moved to the right to avoid a crash d) max moved too far right and left track limits e) max gained from the move irrespective of any other car on any other lap
What was wrong was that this was a race that should have showcased F1 in America Had the stewards, like in nearly every other race, delayed there verdict or at least discussed with the drivers involved, as was the understanding amongst the teams, then the crowed would have gone home singing the praises of F1, master classes from several drivers To find out later the results have altered wouldnt dampen the thrill of the day actually in reverse it keeps it alive
Now they are leaving the circuit or watching the tele wondering if its all a fix
 
fuzzyedges said:
Now they are leaving the circuit or watching the tele wondering if its all a fix
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Americans understand rules about overtaking off the track. In their premier racing series it is normally permitted, but at two tracks (Daytona and Talladega) it is forbidden. If a driver transgresses, they either give the place back or take a penalty, which would be a drive through of the pits and potentially cost them 30 places, not one.
 
So, if Lewis wraps up his season on Sunday do the team do something to help Valteri catch up to and overtake Seb for the remaining races finishing their season with a 1 - 2?
 
J40ADF said:
So, if Lewis wraps up his season on Sunday do the team do something to help Valteri catch up to and overtake Seb for the remaining races finishing their season with a 1 - 2?
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I can't see Lewis moving over to give slow coach the top step of the podium, he "doesn't care about records" but he's not going to give them up and Mercedes have won, I'm sure they don't care who is second, plus it would probably annoy Lewis
 
Then again I didnt expect Lewis to give back the position to Valteri either in the Hungarian
So who knows what he will do
It would be crushing to get second in the championship knowing it was your team mate that gave you it especially as Lewis would get all the credit
 
fuzzyedges said:
Then again I didnt expect Lewis to give back the position to Valteri either in the Hungarian
So who knows what he will do
It would be crushing to get second in the championship knowing it was your team mate that gave you it especially as Lewis would get all the credit
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He will find himself back at Williams if he doesn't speed up, I think ocon will do well at Mercedes
 
jonoooo125 said:
He will find himself back at Williams if he doesn't speed up, I think ocon will do well at Mercedes
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Ocon has proved himself to be a competitive driver, and he is on the Mercedes-Benz Driver Development Programme so a 'shoe in' in the future sometime
 
So, Ferrari International Assistance is a real thing...

Bernie Ecclestone admits F1 has 'always helped' Ferrari to win

Bernie Ecclestone has confirmed what many have always believed, that Formula 1 bosses have done "so many things" to aid Ferrari's success in the sport.

Ecclestone, who no longer controls the sport following Liberty Media's recent takeover, admitted in an interview with Italy's La Repubblica that he and former FIA president Max Mosley have aided Ferrari's success over the years through regulation changes, because the sport has always benefitted from the brand doing well.

"Helping Ferrari has always been the smartest thing to do," he said. "And it has always been done through technical regulation [changes].

"The teams are important for F1, but Ferrari is more than that, so many things have been done over the years that have helped Maranello win."
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https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/id/16227
 
Ferrari flexing bodywork springs to mind. Took a while for that to be banned, whilst they racked up points. 2012 car? F2007 flexing floor, different fuels...
Dangerous ground this isn't it? Bernies era was fixed seems a strange thing to say. I know he's annoyed with liberty but to damage his era?
 
Oh Max, learn to shut up when you’re about to see the stewards and a reporter sticks a mike in your face...

21:28

It hardly needs reminding that Verstappen has history with the stewards. Very recent stewards.

And, when asked what he thought if a penalty was imposed, the Red Bull driver has told American TV: "That would be really stupid. You know my comment already."
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http://www.skysports.com/f1/live-blog
 
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