More new film on the way

The value of my investment can go down as well as up so I may get back less than I originally invested.

For me it's an investment in the future of film, I'm perfectly aware that it's a gamble and may never even make the production stage, even if it does, as a price per roll it's expensive but it won't stop me supporting a business I see as a potentially worthwhile and interesting development in film production. Of course I could have waited for everybody else to invest and then bought some film from it's first production run but if the other 5456 investors thought that way, I'd be waiting a very long time.

We've seen the demise of far too many film stocks recently and if I can afford to do something to keep the world of film photography moving forwards I'm going to do it. It's about the cost of a night out and as I'm having a dry'ish January I can spend a few £'s on something hopefully I'll get pleasure from later on in the year.

Mug or founder, I'm prepared for both outcomes :D
 
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My pledge was about £26, and to be fair I have spent £26 on soooo much worse before lol.

I think I'd have pledged even if there was no reward of film for it. It's worth it just for the possibility of adding another film to the list :) If nothing comes from it, then at least they tried.
 
h'mm the problem is:- you don't know what you are getting....some slide film? Is there a great demand for slide film? Will it be a cheap alternative to the brands we can get now? Then Ferrania would probably add neg film, well I've already shown shots of their latest before being discontinued, so if they restart neg film would it be old or new emulsion and can it compete with Kodak and Fuji or even Agfa Vista for price and quality.
Maybe Kodachrome restarting would have been a good idea as you know what you would be getting.
And a last thought:- if Ferrania is a great success it would hit the sales of Kodak and Fuji and they would drop more lines as there are only so many film users in the world pot.
 
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For me it's not a problem, it's not that I don't know what I'm getting, I don't know whether I'm getting anything at all. It's a gamble, that's good enough for me :D
 
To be fair, new film doesn't need to be a cheap alternative to Vista etc because there are already enough cheap negative films from Agfa/Fuji/Kodak. Whilst I haven't backed Ferrania (because I'm brassic!), I'm glad other people can so that hopefully there will be another alternative slide film. Having used film properly for the last couple of years I can see that there is still a market for high quality film. If anything, I think the lower end 'snapshot' negative films will be more likely to die off sooner because the manufacturers can't be making much profit off a £1 roll of film in the case of Vista and digital point and shoot cameras will pretty much kill off cheap films with cheap dev/scan services which can often deliver so-so results.

However, good quality slide and negative film still delivers a marked improvement over equivalent digital when used by someone who knows what they're doing so it will stay. You also need to take a look at Lomo/Photojojo/UKFilmLab to see that there are still companies pushing the virtue of film enough to maintain a large and varied following with enough disposable income to invest.
 
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excalibur2 said:
h'mm the problem is:- you don't know what you are getting....some slide film? Is there a great demand for slide film? Will it be a cheap alternative to the brands we can get now? Then Ferrania would probably add neg film, well I've already shown shots of their latest before being discontinued, so if they restart neg film would it be old or new emulsion and can it compete with Kodak and Fuji or even Agfa Vista for price and quality.
Maybe Kodachrome restarting would have been a good idea as you know what you would be getting.
And a last thought:- if Ferrania is a great success it would hit the sales of Kodak and Fuji and they would drop more lines as there are only so many film users in the world pot.
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Brian, what are you talking about now? We've already discussed all of these points previously. In fact, it was earlier in this very thread.

Film Ferrania are producing a re-engineered version of the old Scotch Crome 100, so we know what they are aiming to make. I know that you're keen to speculate regarding their future plans, especially for colour negative, but they are concentrating only on slide film for now, as they have stated.

We also know that you're personally only interested in the project if they can produce a negative film as good as Kodak Portra, but at the price point of Vista... :thinking:
 
Well as a thread gets older I forget what's said before :rolleyes:

Well hands up how many of us used Ferrania film say 5 years ago and why did you use it.....and would think Italians used it more than say Americans or British,, so new Ferrania has to be very good film and a decent price for us to switch.
 
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excalibur2 said:
Well as a thread gets older I forget what's said before :rolleyes:

Well hands up how many of us used Ferrania film say 5 years ago and why did you use it.....and would think Italians used it more than say Americans or British,, so new Ferrania has to be very good film and a decent price for us to switch.
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As we've again already discussed, what does your use of Ferrania colour negative film five years ago have to do with the use of an upcoming slide film from Film Ferrania, which is an entirely new company?

100 ISO slide film isn't particularly useful to me personally either, but that doesn't mean others won't find it useful, especially if Fuji drops any more films from its existing transparency range.
 
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excalibur2 said:
Well as a thread gets older I forget what's said before :rolleyes:

Well hands up how many of us used Ferrania film say 5 years ago and why did you use it.....and would think Italians used it more than say Americans or British,, so new Ferrania has to be very good film and a decent price for us to switch.
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bang-head-against-brick-wall.jpg
 
skysh4rk said:
As we've again already discussed, what does your use of Ferrania colour negative film five years ago have to do with the use of an upcoming slide film from Film Ferrania, which is an entirely new company?

100 ISO slide film isn't particularly useful to me personally either, but that doesn't mean others won't find it useful, especially if Fuji drops any more films from its existing transparency range.
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Well I mentioned "say 5 years ago" as it seems I'm the only one who has bought Ferrania film , so where's all the posts saying "how great scotch chrome was and how they miss it". Mention some B\W, Kodachrome\neg films stopped and you get quite a few posts with sad smilies. So my point still stands rephrased:- did anyone here miss USING Ferrania when they stopped producing film.
So the latest update is:- they are using the old machinery and chemists are going to put a new\altered emulsion on the film that used to be scotch chrome?
 
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Andysnap said:
bang-head-against-brick-wall.jpg
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:D:D The proof of the pudding will be in the eating.......and will be interesting with a poll in about a year time on how many people are using scotch chrome, if they make neg film I quite liked there latest (well old) 35mm ver for some subjects, but it might need some strong Cider to persuade me to get the money out of my wallet ;)
 
excalibur2 said:
Well I mentioned "say 5 years ago" as it seems I'm the only one who has bought Ferrania film , so where's all the posts saying "how great scotch chrome was and how they miss it". Mention some B\W, Kodachrome\neg films stopped and you get quite a few posts with sad smilies. So my point still stands rephrased:- did anyone here miss USING Ferrania when they stopped producing film.
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I think you're missing the point, Brian. This isn't about the resurrection of a classic emulsion, this is about a team of people willing to take a chance on launching a new range of film in an environment where most manufacturers are either treading water or removing film from their stock lists. Yes, it's been done through a KickStarter campaign so it's not as though there's a massive industry tooling up but it shows how many people around the world are still invested in film and want to see this succeed.

Times have changed, many people are no longer looking for the ultimate in clarity or detail, they may have a romantic view of photography, they're looking for retro, overblown colours and interesting effects in low light, something different to digital that captures what photography means to them. Ok, Ferrania might not have produced exceptional quality film and few people bought large stocks of Scotch Chrome because it wasn't anything special but that was then and this is now. The Ferrania name conjures up the image of Italy captured in Technicolor movies; huge blocks of bright, glowing colour bleeding into each other, of motion blur capturing the spirit and the feel of the moment, grainy half-light images of intrigue and mystery, not merely recording your attendance at a place and time as anyone with a mobile phone can do.

If you can't appreciate that then I think you need to accept that you're probably not in the target market.
 
Strappy said:
I think you're missing the point, Brian. This isn't about the resurrection of a classic emulsion, this is about a team of people willing to take a chance on launching a new range of film in an environment where most manufacturers are either treading water or removing film from their stock lists. Yes, it's been done through a KickStarter campaign so it's not as though there's a massive industry tooling up but it shows how many people around the world are still invested in film and want to see this succeed.

Times have changed, many people are no longer looking for the ultimate in clarity or detail, they may have a romantic view of photography, they're looking for retro, overblown colours and interesting effects in low light, something different to digital that captures what photography means to them. Ok, Ferrania might not have produced exceptional quality film and few people bought large stocks of Scotch Chrome because it wasn't anything special but that was then and this is now. The Ferrania name conjures up the image of Italy captured in Technicolor movies; huge blocks of bright, glowing colour bleeding into each other, of motion blur capturing the spirit and the feel of the moment, grainy half-light images of intrigue and mystery, not merely recording your attendance at a place and time as anyone with a mobile phone can do.

If you can't appreciate that then I think you need to accept that you're probably not in the target market.
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Well said..I promote you to sales manager of the new company.
 
If we are going down memory lane, what the name "Ferrania" conjures up for me are memories of my first serious use of colour film, in the form of CR50. I bought bulk loads and home processed it. Actually, university processed it, since I was a student at the time. I could afford colour doing it this way; not otherwise. I've had a soft spot for the name ever since.
 
StephenM said:
If we are going down memory lane, what the name "Ferrania" conjures up for me are memories of my first serious use of colour film, in the form of CR50. I bought bulk loads and home processed it. Actually, university processed it, since I was a student at the time. I could afford colour doing it this way; not otherwise. I've had a soft spot for the name ever since.
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Well looking at prices in my blue book for 1967:- Ferrania reversal was for 35mm 36 exp 50ASA was 36 shiilings and 9 pence and Kodachrome for same (except it was 64ASA) it was 36 shiilings and nine pence h'mm price fixing by Wallace Heaton......so what would you buy I know what I did.
For comparison Ilford FP3\HP3 the same was 7 shillings and 5 pence...so the paupers like me used mostly B\W ;)

20shillings=£1
 
Well, as I said above, I bought bulk loads and home processed. Whatever the Blue Book says (and I only have the 1971 edition now) bulk Ferrania and a processing kit brought the price down. As an irrelevant matter of fact, I bought a Watson loader and swapped to bulk film when PanF et al went up from 6/8d. But then, as a student, I was getting through about 100 exposures a day. Your date is almost spot on, though - I started with Ferrania in 1968. And for a better relative price idea - one pound of fillet steak cost 12/6d (62.5p), or £1.37 per kilo. That's a choice of 1 36 exposure Kodachrome or 1.3 kilos of fillet steak. I didn't buy Kodachrome...
 
StephenM said:
That's a choice of 1 36 exposure Kodachrome or 1.3 kilos of fillet steak. I didn't buy Kodachrome...
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Gulp, that works out at over £30 a roll of Kodachrome today, given top quality fillet prices. I don't think I'd buy more than a token roll at those prices... unless it was a Kickstarter to revive it, of course!
 
ChrisR said:
Gulp, that works out at over £30 a roll of Kodachrome today, given top quality fillet prices. I don't think I'd buy more than a token roll at those prices... unless it was a Kickstarter to revive it, of course!
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This is one of the reasons some people only used one roll of film per year. I'm pretty sure Kodachrome was about £6:50 in 1978 and I probably earned about £30 before tax so a roll took about half my disposable income after I'd paid my tax and rent.
 
I don't remember it being that much... but the price did include processing...
 
steveo_mcg said:
you must have been much richer Chris ;)
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The key difference is that in those days we had one house, two jobs and no kids, rather than no job, one and a bit homes and 3.7 kids! :( (Well, the 0.7 is really a potential grandchild...) :)

But, I don't remember Kodachrome being the sort of relative price that Nick found. It was similar to Ektachrome, I'm sure (also process-paid then). Almost all the slide films I used in the 1973-77 period were Kodak; a few were not, but most of those had no information on the mounts on what film it was, and when I was scanning them I didn't think to unmount them to find out.
 
I've got my 1970-71 Blue Book open.

The price then for 36 exposure Kodachrome (25 and 64), Agfa CT18 and Ansco 64 was 34/6d (£1.72p). Ektachrome was 22/3 (£1.11p). Ansco 200 was the most expensive at 39/10d (just 1p under £2). Ferrania CR50 was 20/10d (£1.04p).

A bulk length of CR50 - enough for 6 36 exposure lengths) cost 42/4d (£2.14) giving a per film price of about 7/- or 35p.

The black and white film prices have obviously taken a massive rise over the 3 or so years since I was buying at 6/10d, as they are now 10/3d (51p). The prices I recall were hardly different from the 1960-61 prices I have in another catalogue. Note that I've inflated the price from 6/8d, as the higher price was in the catalogue, and I think I'm more likely to have remembered incorrectly than the price go down.

In 1970 I started my first job, on what was a good starting salary for a new graduate. I took home about £69 per calendar month after tax.
 
Ah, facts!

Very interesting, too. I think a reasonably good graduate staring salary recently might have been around £1,500 pre month after tax, NI and Super (there may be a London allowance in there somewhere, which would skew things a bit). In 1970 if you spent all your after tax salary on film, you could buy 40.11 Kodachromes, 62.16 Ektachromes, and 135.29 black and white (assuming the 51p price, didn't really understand that bit above). If we use those figures against the after tax salary above, we get:

Kodachrome: £37.40
Ektachrome: £24.13
Black and white: £11.09

Starting to make Velvia 50 look like something of a bargain at today's prices. And Precisa is practically free!
 
....and lessons can be learnt (now where did I hear that phrase ;)) on prices....did Kodak shoot themselves in the foot by keeping the price of Kodachrome high for max profit OR was it inefficiency OR no matter how efficient it costs what it cost because of dev was complicated, and that was the reason why Kodachrome sales did not kill off most of the competition.
Interesting point:- Will this new Ferrania last as long as kodachrome (estimated at over 100 years before some colours fade), well mine are unchanged (well if it has I can't see it) at 50 years stored at room temp.
 
The longevity will be less. Kodachrome was the most stable colour film, precisely because the chemistry was so complex. All the E3/4/5/6 type films were inherently less stable. Stability is affected by the processing, and some kits are better than others in this respect.

Kodachrome was very much the odd man out, as anyone who's looked at the caveats on using Digital ICE on film will have seen.

Edit to add: my job was in London, so no weighting to worry about.
 
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Holy thread revival I know, but I've just spotted the Indiegogo campaign for CineStill 120 (800T), up to $45K in less than a day (target $120K). I was wondering about it, but they don't specify what shipping costs...
 
Now suggesting a stretch goal of 4*5 in 800T...
 
If it saves on postage, does anybody fancy a group buy?
 
I'd be up for that. (y)
 
Thread revival again as I got an email update from Ferrania via Kickstarter, final tests on "Little Boy". Maybe delivery day is drawing closer...

(They've clearly had a very difficult time, but they seem to be surmounting the hurdles slowly but surely, so I'm very hopeful this will not only deliver our KS "rewards" but survive...)
 
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