studio lighting/flash all in a bag?

salsa-king

salsa-king

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Name
Phil
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Now, I'm not wanting to get slated but I've looked on ebay and amazon at these three head studio light kits.. soft box etc etc.
:help:
Price wise.. about £200ish is about what I want to pay for the amount of time I'd probably use it... using at home to do some portrait stuff etc.
I'm not looking at doing it as a professional.. just want tp have some lights to aid my shots.. if you know what i mean.

I've read on the net some reviews on these kits and for the money it's what I'd expect. (good for the money and DIY/amateur photographer).


My question is, what WATT power to look at.

Me, I'm thinking 750w (3x 250w).

Or is more better... 900w or 1000w?

I don't want something that would light a football pitch if I'm only standing a couple of metres or so away from the subject.

I've also looked at the interfit kits.. but its starting to go more than I'd want to pay TBH.



cheers

(waits for HOPPYuk to give input for me too).
 
From what I've read, one of the problems with these kits is getting a low enough power for small rooms, ie they're not as controllable as more expensive units, which makes them less suitable for a smaller studio.
 
Hi Phil :D

There are two ways at looking at these things (though not everyone agrees). The first is your way, for which these e-bay kits are probably okay - basic home portraits, nothing fancy, no great ambitions, and you can live with the shortcomings or work around them.

The other way, is they're not so good if you want to use a variety of light modifiers - nice big softboxes, beauty dishes, gridded reflectors etc - there is a limited range of stuff available in that fitting. And if you're getting more critical, the recycle times can be slow (and longer than claimed), sometimes they don't turn down low enough, the power output can fluctuate a bit flash-to-flash, especially at lower power settings, and the colour can get warmer too. They're lightly built, no cooling fan. I can't comment on reliability, or warranty, repairs etc.

The alternative for £200-ish is to get just one better quality head (eg Lencarta Smartflash), stand, basic softbox or brollies, a white/silver reflector etc, and start with that. You can do far more with one light than you perhaps imagine, you'll learn a lot, build from there. If you start with two or three lights, you'll most likely get in a pickle and end up with bad lighting, crossed shadows, exposures all over the place, bit of a mess really. So even if you get a multi-head kit, start with just one light until you're confident.

Which kit are you looking at exactly? You don't need much power, and you do need to be able to turn it down. 250Ws-ish will give you around f/16 in an average softbox at 1.0m ISO100.
 
salsa-king said:
Hi ya,
I'd seen this on ebay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/750W-STUD...graphy_StudioEquipment_RL&hash=item2a19be66fb

they all look the same on Amazon too. Just the product is in a different position but all the same stuff on the photo. lol

I am open to suggestions.. but don't want to spend loads, as I might have my fussy and not use it.. and lens' are the thing that makes better photos ;)
Click to expand...

That's what people believe who have just started to collect gear.(y) its not what photographers believe;).

Better Light makes better photo's, whether sunlight, flash or whatever else.

And this is your entry into the world of creating your own light. As Richard said, the ability to add different modifiers will become really important, and with that set you'll reach compromises due to the mount for modifiers.
 
I don't know Phil, they're not the same as the ones I've used, though they look very similar, different casing. Heck knows what's inside.

How far do they turn down? If it's just full and half power (one stop) that's useless, half and quarter is maybe manageable-ish (two stops). Four or five stops for preference. Bet they won't be fully recharged in 2secs either, the beeper will lie, but not the end of the world..

You can't argue at the price though, and if they do the job even for a while, anything else is a bonus. I wouldn't, but then my requirements are very different.
 
Do you really wanna buy twice :nono:


One decent light ... will stand u in good stead for the future.

You get what u pay for in this life, and no one wants to pay twice
 
Richard, what else do you need with that and how do you use it in a 'set up'?
Is it like one big flash gun?
 
It's complicated.
Some of these 'Ebay specials' offer fantastic value for money, and although they are nowhere near the standard of known makes, they may be worth buying for some people. But it's worth remembering that cheap tools are always harder to use than good ones, so we have a bit of a catch 22 situation here...
Experienced users are likely to want something better, beginners are likely to become frustrated by their limitations, but as I said, they do offer fantastic value for money.

Some of them though are just rubbish. The problem is, it's impossible for anyone who is just looking at the outside to tell them apart. The problem is, many different Chinese factories use exactly the same tooling to make the cases (they hire it to make a batch or buy the cases in). They buy the rear control panel in too, so they all look the same or very similar - but nobody actually knows what's inside - how many capacitors do they have?
What size are those capacitors?
Are they refurbished ones or just second hand?
How much adjustment do they really have (the statement in some descriptions is wildly optimistic, others are more or less accurate)
Do they comply with EU safety standards? "EU" printed on the case may just mean that the trade customer wanted it printed on, it may mean something, it may mean nothing. Same goes for "ROHS" because even if it's true, all that it actually means is that the flash head complies with regulations concerning hazardous materials.
Is the seller able to supply any customer support if you need it?
Will he even want to, once the feedback-leaving period is over?

These are the things you might want to think about. And these are the reasons why some people recommend them and other people slate them.
 
salsa-king said:
Richard, what else do you need with that and how do you use it in a 'set up'?
Is it like one big flash gun?
Click to expand...

That's a bit like asking what you need to build a 500bhp Impreza and then how to drive it fast, in two sentences :D

Yes, studio heads are like one big flash gun, with (manually) adjustable power output. But the Smartflash with 200Ws is roughly twice as bright as any hot-shoe gun, though you can turn it way down of course, plus it has a modelling lamp (kinda regular light bulb) so you can see exactly what you're getting and it will recycle quickly. You'll need that, even for apparently relatively static portraits - expressions change fast.

Then I would get three umbrellas, dead cheap, fast and easy to use, with great light - white, silver and transluscent. A white/silver reflector, stand, and radio trigger, oh and a standard small brolly reflector dish. All from Lencarta. Softboxes are nice, and you get less light spill, but the manual ones are a PITA IMHO and the nice push-up Profolders are more expensive, plus there's a lot of variety with those three brollies - use the white one for most stuff, silver will give a similar light but a bit crisper and harder almost like a beauty dish, and the translucent (in a smaller room, especially used close) will give more softness and a wider spread for small groups. Use the white or silver reflector on the shadow side to taste - it's like having another light.

If you have a hot-shoe gun, you can work that in too, in positions where you can turn the power down a bit for faster recycling, for the background or maybe a hair light, but don't try that at first. If you want to have a go, then I'm not sure the Lencarta triggers will do that, maybe get a couple of Yongnuo RF-602 triggers that are more versatile (with appropriate cables).

How you set it all up is, well, 101 answers to that. Assuming a solo head and shoulders, start with the camera at eye level and focus on the eyes. Set the light a bit above eye level and just to one side, about 1-1.5m from the face. Set exposure by trial and error, working off the LCD/histogram, and have blinkies (highlight alert) enabled. That will get you a technically passable and fool-proof result, but it's the subject that makes the picture and your challenge is to bring the best out in them with lighting effects that suit and flatter. Take it from there, loads of lighting vids about.

Three key things to know:
- The larger the light source, the softer the shadows. Size is relative to distance, eg the sun is big, but a long way off so direct sunlight casts hard shadows.
- Studio light reduces in brightness with distance, often rapidly. It basically follows the inverse square law that says double the distance equals one quarter the brightness - that's a drop of two stops. And the reverse applies.
- Light bounces off a surface at the same angle it strikes, like a snooker ball off the cushion. Remember that, especially when positioning the reflector.
- Edit: four things. Almost all good portaits have just one key light doing most of the work, casting just one dominant shadow. Extra lights are used for different areas, doing different jobs. Avoid conflicting shadows at all costs.
- And five. Use highlights and shadows to show shape and texture (or to conceal them).

Drop a PM to that nice man at Lencarta. Or if he's not available, try Garry :p
 
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so I'm looking for a ....
Lancarta head.. (which one?)
a stand for it?
a brolly (or two) to fit it?
remote triggers?
maybe a soft box to go on it?

anything else?




Being a bit thick... would I need an additional softbox light, that goes on the opp side to the flash (that may or may not have a softbox/brolly on it)... so it counter balances the bright flash, that way you don't get a shadow behind the subject?
 
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salsa-king said:
so I'm looking for a ....
Lancarta head.. (which one?)
a stand for it?
a brolly (or two) to fit it?
remote triggers?
maybe a soft box to go on it?

anything else?
Click to expand...

Erm, see above...
 
Wow!
Just wanted to thank Hoppy for taking the time to write a phenomenal reply :)
Far too many times on here lately people with the knowledge don't always pass it on very well.
But that was a well written informative reply that if read carefully gives the OP all the info they asked for and more!
Top bloke!
:)
 
You're welcome guys :) Remember those three key points I outlined above - fundamental principles that apply to every studio shot ever taken, and they're always at work.

Phil, what's wrong with a shadow on the background? Shadows cast from a larger light is more soft and less defined, can look atttractive. Or position the subject/light/camera so you don't see them. You need to get set up and do it for real, experience the problems and solutions. Make it work.

But, just guessing, if it's the pure white background look you're after (Venture style) then that's difficult, and no place to start. It's hard to do well at the best of times and needs three lights, two for the background, and careful set up. You can get away with just one background light for head and shoulders only, but it's not just a question of nuking everything. Not that I'm suggesting you were thinking that, just sayin' ;)

Good studio technique is about subtle control of light and shade, just the right amount of light where you want it, and not where you don't. Generally less is more - and a heck of a lot easier to manage.

Edit: loads of threads on white backgrounds here.
 
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Matt9581 said:
Enjoying following this, in pretty similar predicament as op
Click to expand...

Garry has just PM'd me :)

I'm wanting..

the Smartflash head 200 £110
the air damped Stand :) £35
reflector £10
Brollies x 3 (Silver/White/Shoot through) £15 each



Just looking into the Triggers, as my February edition of Digital Photo arrived yesterday and there's a feature on flash lighting using triggers, need to read up on them a bit more as I thought about going for the Hehnel combi TF, but the Yongnuo RF-602 looks good too and lightly cheaper :)
 
salsa-king said:
Garry has just PM'd me :)

I'm wanting..

the Smartflash head 200 £110
the air damped Stand :) £35
reflector £10
Brollies x 3 (Silver/White/Shoot through) £15 each



Just looking into the Triggers, as my February edition of Digital Photo arrived yesterday and there's a feature on flash lighting using triggers, need to read up on them a bit more as I thought about going for the Hehnel combi TF, but the Yongnuo RF-602 looks good too and lightly cheaper :)
Click to expand...

Hahnel Combis are good triggers, and only a few quid more than Yongnuos. A few handy features and design advantages over the YNs, with the performance advantage that they will run up to your max x-sync speed whereas the YN usually need to be dropped down a click or two - like 1/160sec instead of 1/200sec. Makes no odds in the studio but might be useful outdoors.
 
Manxmaid said:
Excellent advice in this thread, Richard. I've been pondering the same thoughts as the OP so thank you for your time and comments.
Click to expand...

Thank you all for your kind comments. Hope it's been helpful.

For the record then, I'll just say that Lencarta is not the only brand of flash, and TBH with a bit of experience anyone should be able to get indistinguishable results from just about any brand of studio flash on the market - for most popular subjects, most of the time. The light that comes out of the front is exactly the same.

I've tested a lot of them, getting on for 40 units in total, from most of the main brands and costing from £100 or so to a couple of grand, but far from all. Out of that lot, three brands consistently stand out IMHO.

At the entry level end (though very capable of professional duty too) Lencarta are unbeatable for value, and a lot of that has to do with the fact that they only supply direct so no dealer margin. I also like their Profold softboxes, fast to put up/down and very well priced, most of them with interchangeable mounts to fit other brands (though not the e-bay specials).

A bit above that is Elinchrom with a wide range of excellent gear. Relevant to this thread is their cheaper D-Lite range with high specs and performance, and they're also very light. I particularly like their new entry level D-Lite One, though that's only available in a two-head kit ATM. Plenty of power* for home portraits, and faster than average flash durations if active kids are invloved.

At the top end, Profoto are class, great performance and features with superb build quality. Popular with rental companies too.

*Within reason, control is more important than power. Bear in mind that raising the ISO one stop, eg from ISO100 to ISO200, effectively doubles the brightness. And moving to ISO400 doubles it again and so on, though obviously you want to keep it as low as you can for best image quality. But when you need to shoot say a small group with the lights set back a bit, and also use a higher f/number for more depth of field, that's an easy way of doing it - bumping the ISO two stops turns a 200Ws head into 800Ws as far as effective exposure is concerned.

Going the other way, and say wanting to use a low f/number for shallow DoF that often works well with portraits, with a more powerful head you won't be able to turn it down far enough, which is a more difficult problem to solve - you either have to move the lights way back, spoiling the lighting effect, or mess about with ND filters. Tip: I did some portraits like that last week, and just used the modelling lamp - no flash.
 
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Manxmaid said:
Excellent advice in this thread, Richard. I've been pondering the same thoughts as the OP so thank you for your time and comments.
Click to expand...


Richard has made my mind up, the Hehnel trigger looks the one to go for now I've read the mag, the Lencarta light has the fan cooling, which the cheaper brands don't seem to have. I won;t be using it all day so that might not be an issue, but recharge/flash time would frustrate me if its a few seconds more than one that's faster seconds.
 
I can't spot if Hoppy said recharge time.

I have and do occasionally shoot using numerous flashguns - you can get some yungyou? (spelling) ones cheaply for about £40, cheap wireless triggers then set them all up manually. You can get some reasonable results this way and sometimes they have a big advantage in their small size, in that they will fit into small and tight locations and are very portable.

The drawback is in modifiers, output and recharge time (and battery life). You can get rechargeable battery packs for the canon flashguns that cut recharge time. I have a godox propac that works really well.

To put all that into perspective compared to a good lighting setup...
I've shot with two cheap flash guns plus triggers lighting the background (but that's £100), then a canon 580 flashgun, battery pack and decent umbrella softbox, lighting stands etc is about another £500, never mind my other two spare canon flash guns and the bag to put it all in.
You are then compromised on light output, recharge time, possibly changing batteries, but do have an advantage over size, portability and no mains requirement.

However - if it was me, and for home, I'd buy a single light source to start with, around 500W with a good softbox, snoot but a really good branded, recommended item, rather than something cheap. If you find you need more heads later to expand then I'd add at a later stage.

Softboxes - take advice here. I think they are essential bits of kit but get one that collapses easily for storage.

New is nice but don't discount second hand. Occasionally some good stuff comes up.
 
HoppyUK said:
Hahnel Combis are good triggers, and only a few quid more than Yongnuos. A few handy features and design advantages over the YNs, with the performance advantage that they will run up to your max x-sync speed whereas the YN usually need to be dropped down a click or two - like 1/160sec instead of 1/200sec. Makes no odds in the studio but might be useful outdoors.
Click to expand...

Came across these Godox triggers which seem to get a good write up. Not sure how they compare to Yongnuo or Hahnel but they say they sinc at 1/250sec

Link here http://www.studio-flash.com/reemix-2.html :thinking:
 
Triggers - reviewed a lot of those too. Yongnuo RF-602 are cheap, tried and tested by many thousands of happy users, but the switches are awkwardly placed, they don't have screw-down feet, and you usually lose a little x-sync speed as mentioned above. £30-ish per set.

Hahnel Combi are also inexpensive and have none of those drawbacks. £50-ish.

Best manual triggers IMHO are Phottix Strato II, with a few more handy features plus a very useful auto-TTL pass-through on the transmitter meaning you can have auto exposure control on-camera, though remotes are manual. £80-ish.

Notable newcomer is the Yongnuo 622, a full E-TTL trigger for Canon users - £80-ish. Getting rave reviews all over, especially considering the price that's a fraction of anything similar. Some long threads on these. Only significant drawback is they use the camera's on-board flash control via the LCD and that's only guaranteed active with Canon EXII guns or Yongnuos, though other guns may also work.

The above are maybe the highlights available, but that said there don't appear to be many bad triggers about these days. They all work reliably, do the job, good range, though that was not the case a few years ago. Beware the Phottix Aster though, and its numerous clones available. Very cheap, but naff.
 
Popped into Jessops Camera shop in Nottm today, they had the Hahnel Combi at £49.99

I asked if they'd price match.. internet prices...... no


So I'm going to look at £44 for the Hahnel combi on Play.com


out of interest.. does anyone know if you need any cables to fit a Hahnel combi to the Lencarta head?
 
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only a Nissin Di622MkII flashgun.... small soft box for it and defuser .... and a camera lol
 
SmartFlash £109
Std Refector £10
the pneumatic stand £35
three brollies (white/silver & shoot through) £15 each
FREE DELIVERY :) should be with me tomorrow, as I spoke with Garry (Edwards) there and he said if I got my order in straight away (which I did) it would be shipped today :)

and ordered the Hahnel Combi + studio lead off Amazon £51 delievered
 
I'll let you know once I'm up and running.

In total it's what I expected to pay for an a whole studio lighting set up on Ebay (three flash lights, stands, coloured filters etc). But the more I've asked and looked into it they were expensive cheapo light kits.

They could have been ok for a short time, but it could have also confused me having so many lights to deal with lol


Least I know I have a comapny thats at the end of a phone (Like I spoke with Garry today.. how has Pm'd me shipping details this afternoon) and I can add more as and when I feel I need some more kit :)


So actually I've got a better kit (less flash I know) for the same money if not a bit less :)
 
It's arrived. Had to open everything up to check it and first impressions is good. Build quality of the flash head is far better than i thought it would be for the money. The way it lights up do the back dials makes it look expensive. The pneumatic air stand is ace. Goes higher than i thought it would. I've test flashed it and tried firing a couple of shots off with my camera and its built in flash and the smartflash sync.d with it and fired too.

Just now waiting now my flash trigger i ordered off Amazon. LoL
 
IMG_6315_zps30421614.jpg

IMG_6313_zps309c45c3.jpg


really pleased, just taken some snaps of it with my Ixus 90is.. and the flash going off on the camera triggered the Lencarta SmartFlash

:)
 
do what I'm going to do, buy a little bit at a time :) and build up
 
Good luck and enjoy your purchases.

I have been reading the advice from the likes of Gary and others on here for months and this thread was prob the final push I needed. I had already decided to go for the 6x7 Lastolite Hilite but to that I also ordered 2 SmartFlashes, 2 stands and an umbrella from Lencata and a pair of RF-603 triggers and sync cable from eBay all today. Im expecting the Lencata order tomorrow and the Hilite and triggers mid to late next week. It will leave me with the Hilite train and Octobox which i would like to buy in due course but those can wait as I have more than enough to be getting on with for now.
 
salsa-king said:
do what I'm going to do, buy a little bit at a time :) and build up
Click to expand...
Possibly later in the year once I get a skip in and empty my old home office to make room for our Gym stuff and my photography kit :)

In the meantime I'll just keep an eye on how you get on with yours (y)
 
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