Is this forum over moderated?

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And I can hardly be in a crap mood as I've got Stone Roses tickets :D
 
TheBigYin said:
the problem is, some people find it impossible to attack the viewpoint without attacking the person it comes from as well... as soon as things stray into personal attacks then it's no longer free-speech and debate. It's almost invariably the reason for closure that the thread degenerates into name calling and personal abuse. If you want threads to stay open, and avoid getting points (they don't make prizes, they make bans in this game) "play the ball, not the man"
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If you want to allow free speech, you have to allow all speech without any "buts" (providing no laws are broken, obviously).
 
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David Pookeyhead is undoubtedly one of the best contributors to TP, and I do not want him to leave, voluntarily or otherwise. But his ability to antagonise for no apparent reason is peerless. Too many of his posts can be summed up as "You're wrong. I'm right. And BTW you're a nob." And so it kicks off.

I'd like to go to the event in question though :)
 
TheBigYin said:
It's also strange that it's almost always the people who have been moderated that think that the place is over-moderated.
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I was about to post exactly this. I'm sure 99% of us have never been banned on this or any other forum. Act on the forum as any decent, reasonable human would do in real life face to face and you will never attract the ban-hammer.

Also, don't react to those who are clearly trying to provoke a response, at the end of the day its an internet forum, it doesn't matter if you win or lose an argument with somebody who is unlikely to have any further involvement in your life.
 
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So because a Moderator asks someone to be less aggressive/rude and they then ask the moderators to close the thread because the event is full the forum is over moderated? Really not sure I agree with that. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to do the job the mods on here do.

At the end of the day you can not please all of the people all of the time
 
DerekL said:
I only ask as once again another thread has been closed by what seems to me one of the many over officious moderators on here.
Again one person is singled out and threatened with a ban because he defends himself. Time and again decent (if not contentious aka interesting) threads get closed.

This is by far the most sensitive forum I am a member of (probably for not much longer after this).

Am I wrong or do other agree? Do not insult me though as we know what happens.
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No, it's under-moderated IMO.
However I do agree that some of the moderation appears to be skewed with some 'popular' members being able to say/do what they like, whilst some 'unpopular' members are hit with the proverbial 'ton of bricks'.
I don't at this point know which thread you are talking about but may be able to guess.
 
TheBigYin said:
the problem is, some people find it impossible to attack the viewpoint without attacking the person it comes from as well... as soon as things stray into personal attacks then it's no longer free-speech and debate. It's almost invariably the reason for closure that the thread degenerates into name calling and personal abuse. If you want threads to stay open, and avoid getting points (they don't make prizes, they make bans in this game) "play the ball, not the man"
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which is fair enough - but the flip side is that some posters can't tell the difference between their view point being attacked and themselves being attacked , for example if I tell someone that their [anti muslim diatribe] post would read as though it was drawn from mein kampf if you exchanged the word muslim/immigrant for the word jew , then I'm attacking the view point not the man , but the likely response is "you're calling me a nazi wah wah wah "

Also those of a right wing bent are just as likely to play the man not the ball - how often have we seen pejorative terms about the left wing thrown around in those threads , but that sometimes seems to be given greater tolerance than its obverse ( I am not talking about your personal moderation of those threads i hasten to add, i have always found you very fair and even handed)
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
Without moderation a forum becomes a very unwelcome place.
It is a thankless task and takes up rather more time than many can afford to give.
On many forums, questioning moderation in a thread results in an automatic ban.

Mostly flames are quickly quenched before they become a conflagration on this site.
We have the Moderators to thank for this.
We should celebrate the fact not complain.
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QFE

I've moderated forums in the past and it's impossible to please everyone. The mods here are sensible, level headed, but more importantly come across as human. Some people like to argue/inflame/wind people up and dealing with them was definitely not in my top ten list of "things I'd like to do today". I'm sure I'm not alone in that which is why in other forums, the ban hammer is wielded with much more severity. Why should someone spend their free time settling arguments or dealing with people that can't be bothered to read the rules (for example)?

In my mind, I agree with @TheBigYin. This forum is very flexible in letting people speak their mind, which means a lot more to read through when moderation is finally considered. Kudos to their patience and tolerance (from what I've seen).
 
There's some serious work to put on an exhibition, it takes a long time, lots of effort and it's not just about what to hang on a wall and where.
Just visited a fellow students display in East London and listen to the work he put into it, and another with a display in a hospital in Oxford, both over 6 months works of which they were very proud.
So I can understand PH getting annoyed. There's a few who like to wind him up, it's just a shame he lets them on occasion, or maybe it's just he's forthright. It is a shame as he's another of the useful knowledgeable resources on here.
 
Not wishing to make this all about David, but...

HoppyUK said:
David Pookeyhead is undoubtedly one of the best contributors to TP, and I do not want him to leave, voluntarily or otherwise.
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Agreed, 100% - the place would be far worse without him.

HoppyUK said:
But his ability to antagonise for no apparent reason is peerless.
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Personally, I like his straight talking attitude - might be a "Bluff Northerner" thing... at least you know where you stand with him.

HoppyUK said:
Too many of his posts can be summed up as "You're wrong. I'm right. And BTW you're a nob." And so it kicks off.
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And when he decides to start with the personal insults, and we spot them, he gets reprimands (you may see "a warning has been issued for this post" pop up occasionally - that means we've given the person posting a warning with a "points value" that add up, and at certain thresholds, suspend their account for a set period of time. Don't ask me the points values and thresholds - I deliberately haven't learned them, as I wouldn't want to be accused of either giving an extra couple of points to push someone over, or to hold off on giving them as it may suspend someone. ) It's not as if David hasn't been given the odd holiday - generally because he's been a little too forthright in defending his position (and often his profession and passion for the subject) and "called someone a knob". Personally, If I got as many people queueing up to take a pot shot at MY profession or something I cared that deeply, I wouldn't come back - he's to be praised for his tenacity in returning as often as he has - I think he probably considers it "Missionary Work" - it certainly feels that way to me sometimes. :LOL:

HoppyUK said:
I'd like to go to the event in question though:)
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I think I would too, probably not for all the right reasons.
 
I know dupe accounts are banned and i understand why , but I think some posters on here would probably benefit from the ability to have an alter ego account - Pooks is definitely one such as he attracts a lot of crap some of it justified and some of it because of who he is or his past form instead of what he's saying. whilst he and I really don't see eye to eye for a multiplicity of reasons, I can sympathise as I've experienced similar in the past with a small coterie of sad cases (most of whom have now fallen foul of the hammer of doom) who will attack me or my view point because of who's saying it rather than what is being said.
 
TheBigYin said:
Personally, I like his straight talking attitude - might be a "Bluff Northerner" thing... at least you know where you stand with him.
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As another one who likes to call a spade a f*****g shovel I agree - however if someone is going to make a virtue out of straight talking and telling it like it is, they can't then go into princess mode when others respond by being equally blunt and forthright.
 
Well, there's straight talking and there's making sweeping generalisations and pronouncements as if you're God. These may be bluff northern traits but as a bluff northerner I don't have them and anyone displaying them in bluff northern circles I move in would be quickly called a gob***** and if on stage might have to dodge a few pies.

This is all par for the course on line though and there is the ignore button and actually I used it only recently for the first time in my years of internet use. Not for PH by the way although I might one day now that I'm getting ignore button happy :D
 
woof woof said:
on stage might have to dodge a few pies.
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come now, no true northerner would throw pies ... they've spent good money for them lad and a penny save tis a penny earned.... :LOL:
 
If you wouldn't say it down the pub without expecting to be relieved of your teeth, don't bash it into a keyboard.

Also, there's a subtle, and sometimes hard to master, difference between forthrightness and rudeness. It's a fine line that's often blurred when not communicating face to face.
 
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danny_bhoy said:
If you wouldn't say it down the pub without expecting to be relieved of your teeth, down bash it into a keyboard.
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I think the issue is more where you would say it down the pub , without it kicking off - I could probably quite happily go for a bear with nearly anybody here and have a forthright discussion about politics or photography without it turning into kick off in the car park ... principally because those who butt in with the express intent of winding both sides up would just be cordially invited to f*** off
 
I'm well aware of what a thankless task being a moderator is, and usually take the view that it's pointless arguing with them (having been a mod on a couple of forums and not being in the habit of suffering fools gladly) but as the question has been asked...

I do think TP is over moderated. Some threads I've seen locked have been quite innocuous - in my eyes. However, I do appreciate that this place tries to be family friendly, whereas the forum I use most is strictly for adults and operates a no holds are barred policy, which may influence my views. Pookey wouldn't last five minutes on The Bear Pit (as it is affectionately known)!

IMO Pookeyhead made a valid point that those who are 'anti-intellectual' do seem to get away with behaviour that wouldn't be tolerated in another context - even when they bring about the closure of a thread which others are enjoying engaging with. Yet when he retaliates in kind he gets reprimanded. Strikes me as somewhat unfair. It's all well and good saying 'RTM', but some of us prefer to fight our own battles rather than run to teacher..

The fact is there are some on here (as on all forums) who, although they do nothing to warrant a ban under the rules, post absolute crap and need it pointing out to them, which Pookey does. Moderators who let the power go to their head need telling too. IMO.

[Awaits sanctions :D]
 
I think the RTM function has it's faults. Mostly due to the anonymity. On many (not all, I have to say) it lets spineless cowards who don't have the bottle top front things up sneak off and tell tit tales. I'm sure as well as wielding the big ban stick the Mods get pretty hacked as well with some of the whittering, belly aching, mundane and childish pish they get reported to them. The folk who do this know who they are but the Internet is a great place to hide if you have no balls and the RTM assists this at times. As Danny says above, it is sometimes difficult to know how to take the written word as opposed to the spokne word face to face.

On a personal note, I've never used the RTM and never will. I'd rather take the hit (and have done, literally, on several occasion and not just on here or other forums but 'down the pub as well :D) than carry out an action like those I despise.
 
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Well, you learn something new every day. I didnt realise the RTM button was anonymous :thinking:
 
Nikon_Nick said:
Well, you learn something new every day. I didnt realise the RTM button was anonymous :thinking:
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It is to all but the Mods, was what I meant. I know they can see who has used it.
 
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Ed Sutton said:
IMO Pookeyhead made a valid point that those who are 'anti-intellectual' do seem to get away with behaviour that wouldn't be tolerated in another context - even when they bring about the closure of a thread which others are enjoying engaging with. Yet when he retaliates in kind he gets reprimanded. Strikes me as somewhat unfair. It's all well and good saying 'RTM', but some of us prefer to fight our own battles rather than run to teacher..
]
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I think part of the problem is characterising those he disagrees with as anti intellectual - that in itself is inflammatory and patronising to those who may be just as well educated but happen to disagree with him. That aside I'd also suspect that those people could point to threads where he has been given more licence and they have been shut down, end of the day the mods have an impossible task in keeping everybody happy and generally strike a reasonable balance,

(For the record I don't want David to leave either - but i do wish we could leave all the baggage at the door and discuss concepts like equal adults rather than professor and students)

On the wider point I have form for suggesting that certain mods wind their necks in if i think they are wrong - but its better done by PM not by means of forum tantrum
 
Nikon_Nick said:
Well, you learn something new every day. I didnt realise the RTM button was anonymous :thinking:
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Its not - brash means that general populace can't see that its been reported and who by, not that the mods don't know who has said what (edit - he and I posted at the same time)

another forum i go on has a little tag that says "XYZ has reported this post for abc reason" but i'd say that generally isnt helpful and causes more issues than it solves
 
Ed Sutton said:
IMO Pookeyhead made a valid point that those who are 'anti-intellectual' do seem to get away with behaviour that wouldn't be tolerated in another context - even when they bring about the closure of a thread which others are enjoying engaging with. Yet when he retaliates in kind he gets reprimanded. Strikes me as somewhat unfair. It's all well and good saying 'RTM', but some of us prefer to fight our own battles rather than run to teacher..
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Problem is, we can't see every thread that's on here - there's only usually half a dozen of the staff at most online at any one time - and, well - frankly, there's a LOAD of threads getting posted to. Unless it's a thread about something that catches our eye due to our own personal interests, the chances of simply wandering into a thread and spotting things as they "kick off" (generally the best point to jump on any trouble) are slim. So, we do kind of rely on RTMs to help us notice the problems... and, sadly, as some people bear grudges/run vendettas/indulge in on-and-off-forum bullying that have been on-going for months-years there are times when it's not always all that clear who's started things, but it is generally clear when someone has called the other a knob...
 
big soft moose said:
another forum i go on has a little tag that says "XYZ has reported this post for abc reason" but i'd say that generally isnt helpful and causes more issues than it solves
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I've seen that one in use in certain places as well - it's a recipe for disaster unless the moderation on that site is so draconian that they instantly ban both protagonists...
 
TheBigYin said:
Problem is, we can't see every thread that's on here - there's only usually half a dozen of the staff at most online at any one time - and, well - frankly, there's a LOAD of threads getting posted to. Unless it's a thread about something that catches our eye due to our own personal interests, the chances of simply wandering into a thread and spotting things as they "kick off" (generally the best point to jump on any trouble) are slim. So, we do kind of rely on RTMs to help us notice the problems... and, sadly, as some people bear grudges/run vendettas/indulge in on-and-off-forum bullying that have been on-going for months-years there are times when it's not always all that clear who's started things, but it is generally clear when someone has called the other a knob...
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You could get rid of all the knobs.......................................................................................................................................................oh, wait a minute.................................................:exit::)
 
BRASH said:
I think the RTM function has it's faults. Mostly due to the anonymity. On many (not all, I have to say) it lets spineless cowards who don't have the bottle top front things up sneak off and tell tit tales.
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I'm fairly sure the mods prefer people to report stuff rather than front it up and sort it out by telling another member they are an utter t*** to their faces - in the same way that the police prefer you to report crime rather than knee capping the criminal, that's not about cowardice , it's about acting like a responsible individual instead of a mindless thug and sinking to the level of the person concerned

There is also some irony in thinking you are acting manfully by backing it up on a forum where you are completely anonymous (that's the generic you - not brash specifically) fronting it out as an anonymous gobs***e and causing unecessary rows and squablling isn't being a man - its being a keyboard warrior
 
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TheBigYin said:
I've seen that one in use in certain places as well - it's a recipe for disaster unless the moderation on that site is so draconian that they instantly ban both protagonists...
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the only time it is handy is with spam - where you can see that its already been reported so you don't need to bother (saves the mods getting 32 reports that the kitchen dealers are back in town)
 
I think the extent of the moderation on here is just about right.
 
big soft moose said:
the only time it is handy is with spam - where you can see that its already been reported so you don't need to bother (saves the mods getting 32 reports that the kitchen dealers are back in town)
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Yeah but at that point a quick 'reported' post notifies others it's already done
 
BRASH said:
I think the RTM function has it's faults. Mostly due to the anonymity. On many (not all, I have to say) it lets spineless cowards who don't have the bottle top front things up sneak off and tell tit tales. I'm sure as well as wielding the big ban stick the Mods get pretty hacked as well with some of the whittering, belly aching, mundane and childish pish they get reported to them. The folk who do this know who they are but the Internet is a great place to hide if you have no balls and the RTM assists this at times. As Danny says above, it is sometimes difficult to know how to take the written word as opposed to the spokne word face to face.

On a personal note, I've never used the RTM and never will. I'd rather take the hit (and have done, literally, on several occasion and not just on here or other forums but 'down the pub as well :D) than carry out an action like those I despise.
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I think some people are just more sensitive and do not necessarily have the vocabulary to express themselves. RTM is easy way out.

I do not think this forum is over moderated. There are several posters on here who really wind me up sometimes, interestingly they are usually the same people who are also frequently very helpful. I also think that I would like to meet some of those who occasionally wind me, not for a row, but to have a beer and an interesting debate. It would be fun. Life is just too short to worry about who posts what. Who really gives a F@@K?
 
Byker28i said:
Yeah but at that point a quick 'reported' post notifies others it's already done
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true - but it also bumps it back to the top of the list thus benefiting the spammer ... one forum i go on has a 24 hour ban for "anyone f***witted enough to reply to a spam post"
 
BRASH said:
You could get rid of all the knobs.......................................................................................................................................................oh, wait a minute.................................................:exit::)
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I've already expressed my feelings on that one - but the Admins wouldn't let me declare open season on them the past 5 times I've asked. I'll try again soon, see if they'll give me it for my christmas pressie :)
 
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