1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. ukaskew

    ukaskew

    Messages:
    2,898
    Name:
    Chris
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    I spent the day at the Royal International Air Tattoo yesterday and was there from 6:30am to 7pm so covered a lot of ground. It was probably the best air display I've seen since the 90s, pretty incredible.

    The day was completely faultless in terms of the organisation, but one particular aspect left a bad taste...photographers.

    1) Walking past the B-1 Bomber on static, it was early so pretty quiet, me and Dad were heading over to read the tech sheet thing in front of it and look at it close up (it was well roped off). "GET OUT OF THE WAY" came hollering from the distance, and again, and again. We turned around and a good 30 yards back were 10-15 photographers stood on stools pointing their cameras at the B-1. They were remarkably aggressive and wouldn't let up until we had vacated the vast empty space in front of them. I'm always more than happy to detour around people taking photos etc and not intentionally jump in when somebody is clearly trying to shoot something, but for a whole bunch of guys to demand a massive area of tarmac and shoot from a distance, AND be aggressive about it, not on.

    2) We were sat at the front of the crowd line for the display, when the Red Arrows were taking off two young lads came up to the front and we made room to let them get at the front to see the take-off. Guy with a huge set up uses that as his opportunity to pretty much elbow past them and take up the space we had quite clearly made for them.

    Looking along the crowdline near us there were numerous occasions when photographers at the front would stand up (completely unnecessarily), causing a wave of others to need to stand or move to see things happening lower down (such as the Sea King display). A couple with their two boys a bit further down from us looked pretty fed up with the selfishness of it all.

    I won't tar all aviation photographers with the same brush as I'm sure many are perfectly nice, but there were just so many little things throughout the day where I felt ashamed to be photographer. It was a huge contrast to Goodwood FoS two weeks before, which despite being much, much busier in terms of available photo spots was surprisingly civilized.
     
  2. Lyndsey

    Lyndsey

    Messages:
    103
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Nothing on the same level - but still left me with a bad feeling about photographers:

    Last year my husband and I went to a premiership football match, first time both of us had been for years :) We were walking around outside the stadium before the match and had a chat with one of the stewards, he told us where to wait to see the teams getting off the coaches, and roughly what time to get there... We got a clear view, and slowly the area around us started to fill with people, then the coaches arrived. There were two young lads, eight or nine years old, stood behind us, desperate to see the players, so I let them through to stand at the front... Swiftly followed by two (amateur) photographers who pushed past me and the two kids, blocking our view totally... My hubby lifted the two lads up in turns so they could see over the top.

    Edited to add: I understand the desire to get some good photos from the day, but at busy public events it is unfair to expect to have it all! Do the hard work and perhaps negotiate access at quieter times instead, rather than getting angry and entitled :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017 at 10:06 AM
  3. Andrew Benbow

    Andrew Benbow

    Messages:
    24
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Photographers who blatantly trespass. I'm not taking about standing inside a gate or on the other side of a wall, I'm taking about the ones who walk 20 minutes in to someone else's land and then publish the photos/vlog about it.
     
    Paddysnapper likes this.
  4. Faldrax

    Faldrax

    Messages:
    977
    Name:
    Jonathan
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Unfortunately there are inconsiderate people in most groups - photographers included.

    The majority will be considerate, take their turn, allow children or anyone else who is less able than themselves to have equal opportunities, etc.
    But in the main, you don't remember them - it's the ones that don't behave as they should, the ones that annoy, that you (and others) remember.
     
    Penfold711, Moey and Lyndsey like this.
  5. ukaskew

    ukaskew

    Messages:
    2,898
    Name:
    Chris
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    That's true, it was perhaps just slightly more jarring at an event like RIAT which attracts a high volume of fairly hardcore enthusiast photographers. It did feel at times like it was 'their event' and anyone else was a bit of an inconvenience.
     
  6. gad-westy

    gad-westy

    Messages:
    4,857
    Name:
    Graham
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Over the years I've come to the conclusion that photography as a pursuit attracts more than its fair share of socially awkward people. I've seen unempathetic behavior like this on many occasions and you only need to spend 5 mins on TP to see very abnormally blunt posts and arguments deriving from the least contentious of issues.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017 at 2:10 PM
    Flashman, 4wd, MartinB and 8 others like this.
  7. Stevieraith

    Stevieraith

    Messages:
    110
    Name:
    Steve
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    This ;-)
     
  8. Faldrax

    Faldrax

    Messages:
    977
    Name:
    Jonathan
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    But you also see plenty examples of helpful and generous postings - just like driving down the road, the few % of drivers that have no regard for others have a much higher 'profile' than those who drive sensibly and with consideration.
     
  9. boyfalldown

    boyfalldown

    Messages:
    15,066
    Name:
    Hugh
    Edit My Images:
    No

    Probably n0 more then any other group of people. Like every other walk of life photography will attract its share of good eggs and its share of utter knobs.
     
  10. sphexx

    sphexx

    Messages:
    805
    Name:
    Richard
    Edit My Images:
    No
    My suggestion is that you should have started photographing them, especially with a phone, selfies perhaps.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017 at 3:27 PM
    StewartR likes this.
  11. ryanyboy

    ryanyboy

    Messages:
    5,133
    Name:
    Ryan
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    I said something very similar several years ago. Photography is and always has been an ideal hobby for those who don't want to play with others. Nothing wrong with that of course, but there's no denying it either. As such I often laugh at the behaviour of photographers who seem to lack any consideration for other people. I suspect it's why I hear so many photographers say they find people photography to be the hardest genre, they just don't have the people skills to make it work.

    A bunch of socially awkward hobbyists at an aviation event. Sends a shiver down my spine.
     
  12. Orangecroc

    Orangecroc

    Messages:
    728
    Name:
    Ben
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    My friend had a run-in with a rude photographer at the weekend. Made worse by the fact the photograph involved her child and herself.
    IMG_20170717_152610.png IMG_20170717_152643.png

    The photographer didn't even offer to delete the photos.
     
  13. Keith W

    Keith W Rudolph

    Messages:
    8,014
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Can not comment on the situation as I was not there but I am interested in the bit of your post I have quoted.

    Why do you feel the photographer should have offered to delete the photographs?

    If a picture is worth taking in the first place then I can not see a reason to offer to delete it.

    In all the time I have been shooting street I have had varying interactions with people, some good some not so good, but never have I felt the need to offer deletion of photographs.
     
  14. Orangecroc

    Orangecroc

    Messages:
    728
    Name:
    Ben
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Because the subject of the photograph was upset that her and her son's (a minor) picture was taken, and she expressed those feelings to the photographer. It's just courteous to offer to delete them if it has caused someone to be upset. My friend was also actively turning away from the camera and the photographer moved round and continued taking pictures despite obvious attempts at avoidance.
    I am aware that there is no law preventing the taking of pictures in public places, and that there is no need to ask.
     
    jakeblu, Penfold711 and john.margetts like this.
  15. john.margetts

    john.margetts

    Messages:
    774
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Because good manners are important.
     
  16. sphexx

    sphexx

    Messages:
    805
    Name:
    Richard
    Edit My Images:
    No
    But as you well know it is impossible to delete photos (except unintentionally :-( ). Whether her son is a minor or not is irrelevant unless you are considering some contractual arrangement.
    Depending where they were, they were likely on CCTV anyway.
     
  17. Ed Sutton

    Ed Sutton

    Messages:
    3,469
    Name:
    Dave
    Edit My Images:
    No
    I use another (non-photography) forum where it wouldn't take five minutes! This place is very dull in comparison.:D

    All sorts of people are inconsiderate to people pursuing the same hobby/pastime. Not just photographers. :(
     
    JayJay likes this.
  18. Orangecroc

    Orangecroc

    Messages:
    728
    Name:
    Ben
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Deleting photos is not impossible, it's a built in function in all digital cameras.
    The point being made is that the photographer was rude and discourteous. If you have clearly upset someone by taking their picture or a picture of their child, it is just good manners to offer to delete a photo, or at least explain the reason you have taken it.
    Personally, If the subject of my photograph is upset after I have explained my reason for taking it, in most cases I would delete it if they asked me to. The only real exceptions for me would be if the photograph was evidence of a crime or of someone in the commission of a crime.
     
    Chipper and kris3291 like this.
  19. Gaz J

    Gaz J

    Messages:
    2,675
    Name:
    Gary
    Edit My Images:
    No
    I really don't do well with rude people, photographers or otherwise. I would have read the tech sheet and then moved off and they would have just had to wait.
     
    mulch, woof woof, BBR and 2 others like this.
  20. sphexx

    sphexx

    Messages:
    805
    Name:
    Richard
    Edit My Images:
    No
    OK, my apologies, apparently you don't know that the delete function you refer to does not in fact delete anything.
     
    Lensflare likes this.
  21. Orangecroc

    Orangecroc

    Messages:
    728
    Name:
    Ben
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    I'm aware of how digital storage works and the ability to recover "deleted" files. Most people would accept the images being deleted on the camera in this way, there's no need to be pedantic.
     
    AMcUK, kelack, jakeblu and 2 others like this.
  22. sphexx

    sphexx

    Messages:
    805
    Name:
    Richard
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Well I did say "as you well know... . It seems to me to be dishonest to tell people you have deleted a photo when you well know you haven't.
    I am well known for being a pedantic but I think accurate would be a kinder description here :-( .
     
    kendo1 likes this.
  23. tijuana taxi

    tijuana taxi

    Messages:
    8,044
    Name:
    Rich
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    In this day and age ignorance and selfishness seems to be rapidly increasing.

    Have to say being shouted at in an aggressive manner would have likely resulted in confrontation, very easy to topple off a stool.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017 at 5:49 PM
  24. Orangecroc

    Orangecroc

    Messages:
    728
    Name:
    Ben
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    If I deleted a photo on the camera, it's very unlikely that I would go to the effort of restoring the data afterwards, and I'm sure this would be the case for most other people too.
    Anyway, no need to continue debating the ins and outs of data storage.

    Most of the situation in my post could have been defused with a simple sincere apology.
     
  25. Keith W

    Keith W Rudolph

    Messages:
    8,014
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    In this particular situation the good manners, or common sense as I would call it, would have been to recognize that the person is upset & does not want their picture taken and not to continually take multiple images.

    I have in the past had people who, once they realised I had taken their picture, made it obvious they did not want their picture taken however I did not offer to delete the image and I certainly do not consider it bad manners on my part not to offer
     
    sphexx and Orangecroc like this.
  26. sphexx

    sphexx

    Messages:
    805
    Name:
    Richard
    Edit My Images:
    No
    The thing is Ben's example is very different from the OPs, and I don't criticise him for that, I might have posted it myself if it had been me. The OP is first hand and overt rudeness but Ben's is a third party report of some interaction between two people that did not go well. By his account his friend was already upset because her son was unwell so it's very difficult to know what went on.
    The only reason I commented was there is a general interest point about 1. Deletions and 2. The odd idea that there is something wrong with photographing children these days, which is something I don't understand but seems to be something do with witchcraft.
     
  27. tijuana taxi

    tijuana taxi

    Messages:
    8,044
    Name:
    Rich
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Am I right in saying you have kept photos of people when they objected to having had their picture taken?
    Would you delete the photos if asked specifically to do so?

    This reminds me when I was at the seaside wandering along the prom with my daughter when she was a toddler. One of those photographers with a suited up monkey was eyeing us up, I politely asked if the creature could swim upon which he left us alone
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017 at 8:34 PM
  28. Orangecroc

    Orangecroc

    Messages:
    728
    Name:
    Ben
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    It was a different situation, but suited the heading of the post. The societal position on photographing children is far more extreme than is necessary, I agree with you there. But my example was of a parent who did not want her child's photo taken, which in any place or time should be the sole decision of the parent.
     
    sphexx likes this.
  29. sphexx

    sphexx

    Messages:
    805
    Name:
    Richard
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Yes, as I said, I might have posted myself if it had happened to me.
     
    Orangecroc likes this.
  30. Keith W

    Keith W Rudolph

    Messages:
    8,014
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    In answer to your first question - Yes

    In answer to your second question - No and why should I?
     
  31. Dave70D

    Dave70D

    Messages:
    3,123
    Name:
    Fast Fingered Dave. THE SPAMMERS NEMESIS
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    If number one had happened to me, then I would of stayed put just to peeve them right off, then I would of tripped over some stools :)
     
  32. tijuana taxi

    tijuana taxi

    Messages:
    8,044
    Name:
    Rich
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Common courtesy springs to mind, respecting people's wishes also comes into it.

    Be careful, you might pick on the wrong person one day with that sort of attitude,
     
  33. sphexx

    sphexx

    Messages:
    805
    Name:
    Richard
    Edit My Images:
    No
    If people don't want to be photographed they should stay at home. I say this because CCTV (and dash cams, helmets s, police body cams, phone cams, drone cams etc) are almost everywhere and only going to get more common.
     
  34. Major

    Major

    Messages:
    308
    Name:
    Tomasz
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Yeah, did few years at RIAT as a volounteer and all I can say is that some (very few) utter t***s can ruin whole picture of the rest. Stuff like calling us c***s for doing our job was quite common.
     
  35. Keith W

    Keith W Rudolph

    Messages:
    8,014
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    The only person showing an "attitude" here is you

    I am courteous and I use my common sense - One a picture is take it is taken, if the person objects after the fact then I move on, I usually have the shot I want anyway, if they ask I delete then the answer is no.

    By your input I would guess you do not have much understanding of the genre of street photography
     
    Lensflare and kris3291 like this.
  36. tijuana taxi

    tijuana taxi

    Messages:
    8,044
    Name:
    Rich
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    In my view you are pushing your luck and guess you do not really have much of an understanding of manners or the right to privacy
     
  37. Keith W

    Keith W Rudolph

    Messages:
    8,014
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    I have every understanding of good maners and there is nothing wrong with my manners that you very much.

    And as I said you seem to show no understanding of the genre of street photography - There is no right to privacy in a public place
     
    Lensflare and swanseamale47 like this.
  38. Archie747

    Archie747

    Messages:
    414
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Unfortunately it is a sign of the times. As has been said above it applies to all aspects of life. Unfortunately you need to use your own elbows to protect your position but if you are like me this is uncomfortable and a reason I don't go to busy events.

    Hopefully none of those photographers are TP members. Perhaps you should ask.
     
  39. tijuana taxi

    tijuana taxi

    Messages:
    8,044
    Name:
    Rich
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Right so that's some aviation and street photographers with no respect for others.

    How about some mad b*****d birders, seen them getting a bit lairy and damaging fences when a weird and wonderful bird makes an appearance on our shores.

    Then there's the landscape mob who damaged that old geezers yellow car in the Cotswolds, yep some right s***bag photographers about.

    Also the downright dangerous steam train lot who wander about on the tracks, Darwinism in action there
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017 at 10:09 PM
  40. newbie1

    newbie1

    Messages:
    449
    Name:
    Newbie1
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    It's not the same in every country, worth checking before going on holidays abroad.

    Personally I've only been asked to delete once and turned out it was a location where permission was necessary so that was fair enough. More often I've requested by strangers to take their picture!
     

Share This Page