Trusted grey import website?

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Carlos
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#83
What if HMRC sent you a bill for £8000 in VAT?
I buy an item from a UK shop that posts to me via royal mail. I'm not the importer. Efinity is.

There's 3 options.
1: You buy the lens of a shop for 2000. Shops often open boxes to let buyers try stuff on. Who knows how "new" the stuff you buy there.

2: buy off an importer like efinity or panamoz for 1400. Comes new and sealed. Warranty has to be dealt by them and can take longer to sort issues.

3: import it yourself for around 1100, pay around 200 import duty.

Importing yourself is still the cheapest option. But I rather deal with importers as I have PayPal as protection and all the usual consumer rights if things go wrong.

Not sure on efinity, but remember panamoz for example has a UK address, listed on their website. So you actually have someone there to go after if things go south.
 
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Tommy
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#84
I buy an item from a UK shop that posts to me via royal mail. I'm not the importer. Efinity is.

There's 3 options.
1: You buy the lens of a shop for 2000. Shops often open boxes to let buyers try stuff on. Who knows how "new" the stuff you buy there.

2: buy off an importer like efinity or panamoz for 1400. Comes new and sealed. Warranty has to be dealt by them and can take longer to sort issues.

3: import it yourself for around 1100, pay around 200 import duty.

Importing yourself is still the cheapest option. But I rather deal with importers as I have PayPal as protection and all the usual consumer rights if things go wrong.

Not sure on efinity, but remember panamoz for example has a UK address, listed on their website. So you actually have someone there to go after if things go south.
In terms of the law this is completely wrong. E-infin is not a U.K shop, neither is Panamoz, neither are registered with HMRC in the U.K. The only one of these types of companies that is an actual U.K business recognised by HMRC is HDEW.

As far as HMRC are concerned, you are indeed the importer. Panamoz, e-infin etc. just facilitate your import.

Not that it matters really haven't heard of anyone running into issues with either company in regards to customs for some time. A fair time ago I do remember someones order getting held at customs as it was spot checked. That guy had to pay the custom fees before it could be delivered and Panamoz refunded him to the value.

Both companies ship equipment into the U.K and lie on the customs declaration saying items are toy parts etc. Panamoz usually state a value of around £30.

The only difference between the two, being that e-infin ship to an address in London then forward to the end user by Royal Mail. Interestingly Panamoz have just started to do the same thing on some orders.

It is very unlikely anyone would run into any direct problems but you are avoiding tax every time you make a purchase and that is against the law.

While you do have paypal protection you do not have any U.K consumer rights when using these companies.

Try getting in touch with the U.K address for Panamoz and see how you get on, it has been discussed here and in other places many times before. :ROFLMAO: The U.K address is a virtual office, lots of companies use these the Panamoz one is run by a company called Regus. It isn't a real address as such basically you pay them a few quid a month and they let you use their address for your business. It means you can receive correspondence to the address which they then post on to you. I used to have one of these myself.

The U.K telephone number is also fake in that it is a call handling service that transfers to an answering machine. I have never heard of anyone being able to successfully contact them that way before, it just gives the option to leave a message which they can then dial into and listen to the messages.
 
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nandbytes

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#85
I buy an item from a UK shop that posts to me via royal mail. I'm not the importer. Efinity is.
As per UK law you are the one liable to pay the tax and hence tax dodging by not doing so.

I appreciate you had a bad experience with Jessops and many folks have done too. But if you build up a good relationship with a excellent UK store like LCE or Wex they really take care of you. And not to mention if you were spending 40K with them while they may not match grey prices they'll make it worth buying UK stock with UK warranty.

@f/2.8 above has a great relationship with his local shop and has benefitted in more ways than one. So have I and e-infinity doesn't come close. LCE got my lens fixed for me under warranty within 3 days. Had it with me on 4th day.
 
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#86
I used eglobal central for the purchase of my Canon RP. Eventually it arrived and it's fine, however the service and comms were shocking. Bizarely there was no battery in the box so had to buy one - I reached out to eglobal but there has been zero response. So it could be risky, however I've never had a camera go faulty on me, so took a risk. I suppose if anything goes wrong down the line, there is always the insurance route. The initially purchase was protected under credit card purchase anyway.
 

nandbytes

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#87
I used eglobal central for the purchase of my Canon RP. Eventually it arrived and it's fine, however the service and comms were shocking. Bizarely there was no battery in the box so had to buy one - I reached out to eglobal but there has been zero response. So it could be risky, however I've never had a camera go faulty on me, so took a risk. I suppose if anything goes wrong down the line, there is always the insurance route. The initially purchase was protected under credit card purchase anyway.
I wonder if section 75 covers grey imports?
 
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#91
@f/2.8 above has a great relationship with his local shop and has benefitted in more ways than one. So have I and e-infinity doesn't come close. LCE got my lens fixed for me under warranty within 3 days. Had it with me on 4th day.
I used to buy all my stuff from my local Sony store until I had an issue with a 70-200. Long story short, a warranty claim ended up costing me £400 and took a month to get the lens back. Never again.
 

nandbytes

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#92
I used to buy all my stuff from my local Sony store until I had an issue with a 70-200. Long story short, a warranty claim ended up costing me £400 and took a month to get the lens back. Never again.
I have had terrible experience with Sony too. Hence I deal with them via. LCE or other shops with good customer service.
 
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#93
I have had terrible experience with Sony too. Hence I deal with them via. LCE or other shops with good customer service.
It would help if they half knew anything about the stuff they sell to be fair. I now use wilkinson cameras as I have one on my doorstep and they've been brilliant.
 

nandbytes

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#94
It would help if they half knew anything about the stuff they sell to be fair. I now use wilkinson cameras as I have one on my doorstep and they've been brilliant.
Yes Wilkinson have been great to me too. Very quick to sort out issues.
 
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Carlos
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#96
As per UK law you are the one liable to pay the tax and hence tax dodging by not doing so.
I'm buying an item from a shop with a uk address that posts it to me from the UK. IF someone gets in trouble, its gonna be them. You need to re-check the law.

EVEN IF (will never happen) i had to pay 20% extra on the stuff i buy from importers, I would still be cheaper than the shop stuff and more likely to be sealed. p***es me off how shops just open boxes for you to try lenses and still sell them as "new" and not as "ex display" items.
 
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Tommy
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#97
I'm buying an item from a shop with a uk address that posts it to me from the UK. IF someone gets in trouble, its gonna be them. You need to re-check the law.

EVEN IF (will never happen) i had to pay 20% extra on the stuff i buy from importers, I would still be cheaper than the shop stuff and more likely to be sealed. p***es me off how shops just open boxes for you to try lenses and still sell them as "new" and not as "ex display" items.
I explained above why you are completely wrong so I won’t waste my time repeating myself. Every time you purchase from e-infin or Panamoz you are dodging paying tax. That is the law.

As for the other nonsense about shops opening boxes in the 20 odd years or so I have been buying photography equipment I have never had that happen and during that time I have pretty much dealt with every major U.K supplier at one time or another.

In my local camera shop they have a display unit of every item they sell. If you want to try something they use the display unit. Eventually those get sold as ex display.
 
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#98
I'm buying an item from a shop with a uk address that posts it to me from the UK. IF someone gets in trouble, its gonna be them. You need to re-check the law.

EVEN IF (will never happen) i had to pay 20% extra on the stuff i buy from importers, I would still be cheaper than the shop stuff and more likely to be sealed. p***es me off how shops just open boxes for you to try lenses and still sell them as "new" and not as "ex display" items.

You are wrong and have evaded tax of around 8k plus import duty, it’s irrelevant what you think, it’s fact. Are you running a photography business, does your tax evasion give you an advantage over your competitors?
 

nandbytes

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#99
I'm buying an item from a shop with a uk address that posts it to me from the UK. IF someone gets in trouble, its gonna be them. You need to re-check the law.

EVEN IF (will never happen) i had to pay 20% extra on the stuff i buy from importers, I would still be cheaper than the shop stuff and more likely to be sealed. p***es me off how shops just open boxes for you to try lenses and still sell them as "new" and not as "ex display" items.
has been debated and explained ad nauseam on this forum. feel free to check it up yourself or search the history. I am also not going to repeat it and start another round of argument around it.

As for shop selling you display copy you have ONE instance/experience of this and you are tarring everyone else with the same brush. I have never had this issue for example.
 
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nandbytes

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You are wrong and have evaded tax of around 8k plus import duty, it’s irrelevant what you think, it’s fact. Are you running a photography business, does your tax evasion give you an advantage over your competitors?
businesses can claim back VAT for the equipment they use i.e. in this case cameras? (or at least they used to be able to anyway)
my mate use to do it, so he didn't even buy used. His way of saving was waiting for cashback offers in the UK.
 
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Carlos
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businesses can claim back VAT for the equipment they use i.e. in this case cameras? (or at least they used to be able to anyway)
my mate use to do it, so he didn't even buy used. His way of saving was waiting for cashback offers in the UK.
I'm not vat registered. So this way is more affordable to me.
 
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Rob
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I sometimes wonder if there are posters who claim to cheat HMRC just because they know it winds up other readers? Of course, I could have that all wrong...

:tumbleweed:
 
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Carlos
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There is a sticky thread about grey imports that explains everything quite well.

https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/t...rey-imports-and-other-assorted-topics.512133/

There is nothing wrong with buying grey imports. As long as you declare them properly then there isn't a problem and it all legit.
that sticky says "Your responsibilities as an importer "
We are not the importer, the shops like efinity are the importers. Technically, they are selling us "used" goods as they are the legal original owners of the gear (with the original receipt from the HK shop, etc)


I dont need to declare anything. I bought it of a shop with prices in £ and the item is shipping to me from UK to UK address (efinity for example). the import side of things, isnt my issue there
 
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Mark
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that sticky says "Your responsibilities as an importer "
We are not the importer, the shops like efinity are the importers. Technically, they are selling us "used" goods as they are the legal original owners of the gear (with the original receipt from the HK shop, etc)


I dont need to declare anything. I bought it of a shop with prices in £ and the item is shipping to me from UK to UK address (efinity for example). the import side of things, isnt my issue there

You can kid yourself as much as you like but the website T&Cs make it clear that you purchased your kit from a retailer in Hong Kong.

Where that kit is delivered from is utterly irrelevant.
 
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Laurence
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I'm just trying to get a little clarity in this. On the E-Infinity website it states:
United Kingdom - We expedite our orders from our UK warehouse via DPD, Hermes, Royal Mail or UPS.
https://www.e-infin.com/uk/common/delivery_details

The implication, at least to me, is that the company ships from HK or wherever and the item goes into their warehouse in the UK. They then post the item to the UK consumer. This then makes E-Infinity the importer. If the company shipped directly from HK to the consumer then the consumer would be the importer.
As it happens I suspect that that E-Infinity do not have a physical warehouse facility in the UK and that this is bogus information.
 
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nandbytes

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Even if they have a warehouse in UK doesn't make a difference. They have made it clear in their contacts and T&C as mentioned above that they are a Hong Kong company. They are simply importing items in your behalf whether they do that via. a warehouse or directly to you doesn't make a difference to the tax man.
If s*** hits the fan and you try claiming that, HMRC will just tell you bought from a Hong Kong company with a contact address in Hong Kong. They have no registered UK business, so you are importer and the contact for paying the dues.
For example if you order the package to your work address, they suddenly don't become the importer. You still are.
 
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Rich
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I'm just trying to get a little clarity in this. On the E-Infinity website it states:

https://www.e-infin.com/uk/common/delivery_details

The implication, at least to me, is that the company ships from HK or wherever and the item goes into their warehouse in the UK. They then post the item to the UK consumer. This then makes E-Infinity the importer. If the company shipped directly from HK to the consumer then the consumer would be the importer.
As it happens I suspect that that E-Infinity do not have a physical warehouse facility in the UK and that this is bogus information.
I looked at their t&c's too and no mention of you are the importer, expected to find it.
So in theory you are not liable for any tax other than the usual vat which I presume in included in the listed price
First one of the Grey suppliers I have come across that claim to be the importer
 
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4,290
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Tommy
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I'm just trying to get a little clarity in this. On the E-Infinity website it states:

https://www.e-infin.com/uk/common/delivery_details

The implication, at least to me, is that the company ships from HK or wherever and the item goes into their warehouse in the UK. They then post the item to the UK consumer. This then makes E-Infinity the importer. If the company shipped directly from HK to the consumer then the consumer would be the importer.
As it happens I suspect that that E-Infinity do not have a physical warehouse facility in the UK and that this is bogus information.
No it doesn't!

They can say the sky is green and that grass is blue on their website it doesn't make it true.

I looked at their t&c's too and no mention of you are the importer, expected to find it.
So in theory you are not liable for any tax other than the usual vat which I presume in included in the listed price
First one of the Grey suppliers I have come across that claim to be the importer
Nope.
 
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Laurence
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Even if they have a warehouse in UK doesn't make a difference. They have made it clear in their contacts and T&C as mentioned above that they are a Hong Kong company. They are simply importing items in your behalf whether they do that via. a warehouse or directly to you doesn't make a difference to the tax man.
If s*** hits the fan and you try claiming that, HMRC will just tell you bought from a Hong Kong company with a contact address in Hong Kong. They have no registered UK business, so you are importer and the contact for paying the dues.
For example if you order the package to your work address, they suddenly don't become the importer. You still are.
OK, I understand that.
I looked at their t&c's too and no mention of you are the importer, expected to find it.
So in theory you are not liable for any tax other than the usual vat which I presume in included in the listed price
First one of the Grey suppliers I have come across that claim to be the importer
The fact that E-Infinity do not explicitly state on their website that the consumer is the importer does not, by implication, mean that they, E-Infinity, are the importer. You would have no legal argument on that basis should it come to that.
 
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Tommy
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OK, I understand that.

The fact that E-Infinity do not explicitly state on their website that the consumer is the importer does not, by implication, mean that they, E-Infinity, are the importer. You would have no legal argument on that basis should it come to that.
No, you wouldn't.
 
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Rich
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No it doesn't!

They can say the sky is green and that grass is blue on their website it doesn't make it true.

Nope.
Surely its not up to the customer to undertake a due diligence test on everything they buy
I bought ink cartridges from a company that were sent from Switzerland in separate packages
Presumably some tax advantage to this, company advertises as being in the UK, i'm a customer not an investigator
 

nandbytes

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Surely its not up to the customer to undertake a due diligence test on everything they buy
I bought ink cartridges from a company that were sent from Switzerland in separate packages
Presumably some tax advantage to this, company advertises as being in the UK, i'm a customer not an investigator
Rightly or wrongly it is up to the customer and in this case also the importer to do the due diligence. Claiming ignorance won't work with HMRC. I refer you to the sticky linked above ;)
 
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Tommy
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Don't get cross with me:). As I stated, I was after clarity and not putting forward an opinion.
If I was getting cross you would know about it.

If you want clarity email them, they will send you all the info needed. It will state that you are the importer and that they can not provide a vat invoice as they are not registered to trade in the U.K. It' seem's to be a standard copy and paste email as I have seen a few people get exactly the same answer.

Honestly the level of stupidity or "pretend stupidity" in this thread is verging on ridiculous. Not pointing that at you by the way.

Some people in this thread are just denying reality. If you buy from one of the grey market companies based in China you are not paying tax or import duty it is as simple and as cut and dried as that.
 
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Rich
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Rightly or wrongly it is up to the customer and in this case also the importer to do the due diligence. Claiming ignorance won't work with HMRC. I refer you to the sticky linked above ;)
I was a bit peeved that the cartridges came like this and on different days too, what can you do though?
All looks legit and I certainly didn't intend to avoid tax, even sent them an email asking why they didn't state the cartridges came from outside the EU
 
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Tommy
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Surely its not up to the customer to undertake a due diligence test on everything they buy
I bought ink cartridges from a company that were sent from Switzerland in separate packages
Presumably some tax advantage to this, company advertises as being in the UK, i'm a customer not an investigator
Actually it is. Unless you have been purposely misled, which in the case of e-infin they don't, they just withhold the information unless you ask them, they are not under any legal responsibility to provide the information as they are a Hong Kong company and U.K laws do not apply to them. Even if they were misleading people unless you are happy to go through the Hong Kong court system you are screwed.
 
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Rich
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Actually it is. Unless you have been purposely misled, which in the case of e-infin they don't, they just withhold the information unless you ask them, they are not under any legal responsibility to provide the information as they are a Chinese company.
In the case of the ink cartridges I believe I was misled.
Many casual shoppers would not look any further than the price, why would you in these days of global trade
 
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Andrew Cliffe
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Surely its not up to the customer to undertake a due diligence test on everything they buy
I bought ink cartridges from a company that were sent from Switzerland in separate packages
Presumably some tax advantage to this, company advertises as being in the UK, i'm a customer not an investigator
There is a duty threshold for items coming into various countries. The UK has a very low threshold. Sending small value goods in separate packages may increase postage costs, but if each item is legally declared under the duty threshold, no vat/duty is paid, nor is the processing/admin fee levied by Royal Mail or the Courier - so works out considerably cheaper for the buyer. This is a legal method and you should be grateful to them for considering this.
 
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