Critique : What do we want here?

How do you want people to respond to your pictures?

  • "Great work" (regardless of how good/bad it is).

  • I only want to know what people think if it's good.

  • I want to hear the good and the bad, so I can learn from it.

  • Nobody here is good enough to critique me.

  • Don't ask me, I just Googled 'Tits' and ended-up here. :-(

Results are only viewable after voting.
u8myufo said:
If it`s strong harsh and straight to the point then it`s the truth Pete,that in my mind equals honesty and useful.Nobody is beating anyone with a stick in an effort to help them improve are they?
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thing is some people jump straight on the negatives wheras good crit should take a balanced view

you did XY&Z well but you could have improved it by doing AB&C

Not

This shot is crap , youve done everything wrong, it ought to have been deleted rather than posted here
 
big soft moose said:
thing is some people jump straight on the negatives wheras good crit should take a balanced view


Not

This shot is crap , youve done everything wrong, it ought to have been deleted rather than posted here
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That is very much the exception not the rule, IMVHO, FFS
 
that depends on the poster - a few seem to get an ego boost out of being harsh and unhelpful (IMO they are over compensating for other deficiencies)
 
big soft moose said:
that depends on the poster - a few seem to get an ego boost out of being harsh and unhelpful (IMO they are over compensating for other deficiencies)
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I just feel that you have to understand what they mean ………… you know that as well as anyone Pete.

If it was simple and straightforward it would not be as interesting or (challenging)

You cannot just float in, post an image and expect to understand the culture and the developed environment of any forum …… it is not how situations work, especially in an established forum …………. even if you are the greatest bird photographer on earth

I suffered in the early days, had difficulty understanding what was happening ……. even for an old bugger like me with years of experience

This country is just getting soft and too PC ….. IMVH PC opinion …… part of it's downfall IMHO PC opinion …….. but I'm an old Yorkshireman born years ago

(if I was my usual disrespectful self I would say that the country is becoming as soft as sh1t)
 
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Yes Rich there was a hell of a lot of it ,I got emails nasty guest entries on my website I had to delete ,the result of mouse gate led to members sending me text messages and just generally being horrible three members have since been banned and all three were involved ,one sent me a few PMs were I seeked police advice ,you wouldn't believe the text messages I was getting from one certain member ,all this while a few members thought it was funny and big to get clever about the mice I was using to bait one of my owl sites and you were one of them ,you even used it on a thread were it was called show us yours were I had a picture of my wife and you posted a naughty comment regarding a mouse ,cobra deleted it ,any chance or opportunity for a dig were my owls were concerned and the usual crew were at me,i like a good laugh but behind the scenes you don't know nothing ,Marcel offered me the chance to take this further with the PM /text etc at the time but I chose not to and I did tell him my reason ,so the Admin were aware but accepted my decision luckily it all got sorted so when it starts happening again with sly remarks about owl baiting I just get a bit p***ed off with it ,you see if you get it once every so often that's fine but I was getting more than my fair share of it ,and I still do but I just get on with it now as I believe in karma ,what you give is what you get returned,
 
Oh dear is this a forum? Enough to put anyone off
 
BillN_33 said:
I just feel that you have to understand what they mean ………… you know that as well as anyone Pete.
)
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which is fine if its one of us (or any established member) confident enough to either understand them or tell them to get f***ed and put them on ignore ... but when its new members it doesn't reflect too well on the forum as a whole... and really it shouldnt happen at all
 
Den

to many people your owl shots situation just needs understanding …. if it is not attractive to some they should ignore it - many of the longer serving members have now, thankfully got used to it, but it has taken some time ………. I drop in now and again to be "an arse" offering a sarcastic comment……… which amuses me, (but not you)

You are just unique on the forum, (not an insult to you at all).

That's is why I say that you cannot judge anyone by just looking at a few threads and what they say and post ……. it is not that simple ……… we are all partly mad
 
I've broad shoulders but I think this thread won't do the forum any good if it continues going round in circles
 
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but really the forum should be about offering and recieving photo crit - not being an arse for amusement value (if that's your bag i recomend Barry boys - but you need a very thick skin because you will be invited to perform biologically improbable acts as a consequence)

Its not just about Den , its about how it looks to A N other poster
 
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petert said:
I've broad shoulders but I think this thread won't do the forum any good if it continues going round in circles
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I tend to agree - at the very least it wants moving somewhere where it isnt visible to non members
 
big soft moose said:
which is fine if its one of us (or any established member) confident enough to either understand them or tell them to get f***ed and put them on ignore ... but when its new members it doesn't reflect too well on the forum as a whole... and really it shouldnt happen at all
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agreed but "that's life" …….. and I do not think that many new members are treated badly unless they come in with "all guns blazing" as with the Osprey thing and a few other thread … what was eventually said was a natural reaction based on the attitude of the OP …….. not typical and should not be taken as an illustration of how new members are treated - put a poll together and ask them, I bet most say that they have been helped ……… it is longer serving members that get p1ssed off with each other
 
but how many have been put off posting at all by seeing the p***ing contests like mpouse gate or Gramps puffin thread , or the Osprey thread etc and though kinnel i'm not posting here in case that happens to me
 
petert said:
I've broad shoulders but I think this thread won't do the forum any good if it continues going round in circles
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you mean if Pete and I continue going around in circles NOT the section … we are just two people, don't judge the other members from what we are discussing
 
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big soft moose said:
but how many have been put off posting at all by seeing the p***ing contests like mpouse gate or Gramps puffin thread , or the Osprey thread etc and though kinnel i'm not posting here in case that happens to me
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This ^^^
 
Not judging anyone, far from it just saying as others can see all this and would it encourage anyone to stay around?
 
This is a hobby supposed to be fun and enjoyable for most and with all the devastating things that have gone on in the world this all seems a bit pathetic, sorry but that's how it comes across
 
admirable said:
This ^^^
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do you know what happened on the Osprey thread?

I know as much as anyone ……. the images were not good, I saw them, reasonable comments were made to the OP, very reasonable IMHO and also helpful

He flipped

He has refused to substantiate his claim that 5 members sent him abusive PM's

He deleted his images from the thread and Flickr

He indicated his level of skill and the fact that he was paid for work that he did

He was abusive - no one on the thread was

Again a lack of understanding before making a judgement …..
 
petert said:
This is a hobby supposed to be fun and enjoyable for most and with all the devastating things that have gone on in the world this all seems a bit pathetic, sorry but that's how it comes across
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Pete what do you want to get from this forum ……. and why do you want to post images in the Critique section?
 
The thing no one has managed to define yet is who are the "we" in the thread title.

If people could spend a bit more time thinking about that, this thread would appear far less self centred...
 
Simply to get others who have more experience their opinion and any advice is always welcome I know.my way around a camera but I would like to share and learn anything from others providing it's a nice experience
 
petert said:
Simply to get others who have more experience their opinion and any advice is always welcome I know.my way around a camera but I would like to share and learn anything from others providing it's a nice experience
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so your experience has to be a "nice experience"

Critique will be honest, as far as the giver his concerned ....... that's all it should be ............ some will be "nice" in your opinion others maybe not ......

But seriously, you will get a far "nicer" experience in the "for pleasure" section than this Critique section ........ I am not giving you advice or say go there, it is just my opinion

This specific thread is about a section that has been "designed" to be a photo Critique section ........ and asks the question..............? what do you want from this (Critique) section?
 
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I have been around long enough to know that you are likely to get cc when posting here, how ever I am not sure that it is clear that this is a cc section, it only states "photo genre discussion and critique" perhaps a banner across the top of the bird section "only post here if you want critique" or perhaps critique should not be given unless specially asked for, either by the prefix or within the thread ?

I know this thread has sparked up because of the Osprey thread and as far as I am aware asked for critique, so if the the reaction was to the replies in the thread then it is a dummy spat and all lets just move on

As rich said this subject was always going to happen again I think Ade started the last one and it has been quite civilized here for quite a while
 
Nawty said:
The thing no one has managed to define yet is who are the "we" in the thread title. If people could spend a bit more time thinking about that, this thread would appear far less self centred...
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Well, as the thread starter, I can say in all honesty that I meant 'we the people', 'we the forum members', 'we the whole group'.

I don't speak for anyone else, or any specific clique, or any other clandestine overlord top-table.

'We' is you and me and anyone else with an interest and a voice (keyboard). I can only apologise if you thought I meant anything other than this! I didn't.
 
BillN_33 said:
so your experience has to be a "nice experience"

Critique will be honest, as far as the giver his concerned ....... that's all it should be ............ some will be "nice" in your opinion others maybe not ......

But seriously, you will get a far "nicer" experience in the "for pleasure" section than this Critique section ........ I am not giving you advice or say go there, it is just my opinion

This specific thread is about a section that has been "designed" to be a photo Critique section ........ and asks the question..............? what do you want from this (Critique) section?
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I didn't put that very well, don't mean hugs and kisses :-D it should be a learning curve where possible with honest critic without being rude
 
BillN_33 said:
I do think that you are wrong and, IMHO, just do not understand the meaning of what is said ….. generally the people on here do care, in their own way ……. you just have to try to understand why they say what they say and why they post what they post

You cannot just "float in" to a thread, read one posting and assume that it is representative

agressive feelings and strong views are part of creative development, IMVHO, (and I am sick of HAVING to use that expression ON HERE to excuse what i say and to keep people from being offended or "happy")

We have strong personalities on here and I think that is good
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maybe i should point you to several threads that have degenerated into purely personal attacks with no bearing on the subject then. you have to be blind not to see it as its all over the forum and always the same people.
having a difference of opinion or strong views is one thing. being hyper critical of an image another but really is there any need for people to just drop in on a thread and chuck out an insult just to make themselves feel better ? and most of the time they try to cover it up first with so called critique but then slip in a personal attack in the middle to make it seem like they are actually just trying to be helpful.
 
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dean messenger said:
maybe i should point you to several threads that have degenerated into purely personal attacks with no bearing on the subject then. you have to be blind not to see it as its all over the forum and always the same people.
having a difference of opinion or strong views is one thing. being hyper critical of an image another but really is there any need for people to just drop in on a thread and chuck out an insult just to make themselves feel better ?
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I am trying to think of some Dean as I could well have been involved …… but i cannot ……. if you think it will help I do not mind being used as an example …… there was one recently maybe with comments between Rich and I …… but they were between Rich and I, (we "know" each other …… in a way), he just p1ssed me off and I am a temperamental flower, we will both get over it ………BUT no abuse was directed at the OP, (I do not think so anyway), or his images ……. quiet the reverse
 
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BillN_33 said:
I am trying to think of some Dean as I could well have been involved …… but i cannot ……. if you think it will help I do not mind being used as an example ……
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Let me refresh your memory - : What do we want here?

That had nothing to do with giving critique, it was a direct personal attack and had no place on the forum.
What Dean says is absolutely right and has been the case for years because offensive comments are tolerated by the Admin/Mod team and people here seem to think it's clever to belittle others ... I guess it's an inferiority complex or something.

All this continuing pontificating about the problem with people not accepting critique is, in general (Osprey thread excluded) a red herring ... it's the insulting and abusive comments that come up time and time again that is destroying this section of the forum and which is turning people away and discouraging others from posting images here.
 
gramps said:
Let me refresh your memory - : What do we want here?

That had nothing to do with giving critique, it was a direct personal attack and had no place on the forum.
What Dean says is absolutely right and has been the case for years because offensive comments are tolerated by the Admin/Mod team and people here seem to think it's clever to belittle others ... I guess it's an inferiority complex or something.

All this continuing pontificating about the problem with people not accepting critique is, in general (Osprey thread excluded) a red herring ... it's the insulting and abusive comments that come up time and time again that is destroying this section of the forum and which is turning people away and discouraging others from posting images here.
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to quote you - and you have mentioned this a number of times and suggested that it is regular thing
"people here seem to think it's clever to belittle others ... I guess it's an inferiority complex or something"

maybe you are correct in saying that it seems clever to belittle others by suggesting that they have an inferiority complex or something

or maybe you will think that i am trying to be clever and trying to belittle you by referring you to what you have said …… and there the "comedy of errors" continues
 
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BillN_33 said:
to quote you - and you have mentioned this a number of times and suggested that it is regular thing
"people here seem to think it's clever to belittle others ... I guess it's an inferiority complex or something"

maybe you are correct in saying that it seems clever to belittle others by suggesting that they have an inferiority complex or something

or maybe you will think that i am trying to be clever and trying to belittle you by referring you to what you have said …… and the the circle continues
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My comment reflects a general opinion of why people post such belittling comments, only you know why you made your belittling attack on me ... but whatever the reason it was totally uncalled for, out of order and typical of the problem of this part of the forum.
 
gramps said:
My comment reflects a general opinion of why people post such belittling comments, only you know why you made your belittling attack on me ... but whatever the reason it was totally uncalled for, out of order and typical of the problem of this part of the forum.
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It is good that you (we) are getting this out in the open …….. how many times do you feel that I have made a "belittling attack" on you …… once, twice, every time you post?
 
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BillN_33 said:
It is good that you (we) are getting this out in the open …….. how many times do you feel that I have "belittled" you …… once, twice, every time you post?
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It's irrelevant ... it's an example, (which you asked for), of what is continually happening on this part of the forum and what is ruining it.
 
gramps said:
It's irrelevant ... it's an example, (which you asked for), of what is continually happening on this part of the forum and what is ruining it.
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It would help me if you pointed to more than one of your threads

I think that you will find only one instant that you are unhappy with whilst you have repeated a number of times that "people on here have an inferiority complex or something"

As far as I can recall, I have always prior to that posted comments that you were happy with?
 
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BillN_33 said:
It would help me if you pointed to more than one of your threads

I think that you will find only one instant that you are unhappy with whilst you have repeated a number of times that "people on here have an inferiority complex or something"

As far as I can recall, I have always prior to that posted comments that you were happy with?
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You are missing the point ... it isn't all about you.
 
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